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- #1
50 or 60 hertz ?
- Thread starter linlin
- Start date
Zygalski
Ninja Samurai
60Hz = taller screen size. And a bit slower (with a bit of slowdown).
50Hz = shorter, faster, no slowdown.
50Hz = shorter, faster, no slowdown.
- Thread starter
- #3
Dazza.
League 1
- 2 April 2002
Been playing ProEvo 5 for a few weeks now & it seems they have sorted out the slow down on 60hz. so you don't have to play it on 50hz no more.Zygalski said:
Teacher
Krèg ut zuâh!
- 3 August 2004
been playing pes5 also. not for a couple of weeks, but for a couple of days. zygalski is right: 60hz has a tiny little bit of slowdown. on 60 hz the game is almost the same as we9. only major difference, imo, is the less strict refereeing.
Yeah the only ever slowdown i notice now on 60htz is from FK (although 90% of that can be eradicated if you turn off most of the on screen displays) none at all from CK although i don't see any slowdown at all at 50htz but that plays too fast not as smooth and deformed looking players, so the trade-off at 60htz is worth it over-all..
So Solid Jedi
Evo-Web's Jedi Knight
- 30 August 2004
I prefer 60Hz on all games, but especially PES coz of the slower pace to games....i hate the frantic action of 50hz
Aris Thessaloniki
League 1
Yeah been playing it for the last week also and I have to say that 60Hz is the way to play the game. It's much much smoother than 50hz.
RAISH
I WRITE THE BOOK
- 19 June 2004
60 OR 50 has nothing to do with the pace of the game, its picture quality. 60hz is smoother and has a better picture quality thus coz more slowdown in the box. Nothing else.
M
mickus
Guest
Why is there an option if 60Hz is the better one?
Can anyone choose 60Hz or do you have to have a new TV or something?
Can anyone choose 60Hz or do you have to have a new TV or something?
Hello everybody...
I'm from brazil and The system Frequency (50 or 60) it used for the ps2 plataform, it means if your ps2 plataform was made in japan(like my plataform) or USA the system frequency maybe set to 60Hz else if your ps2 was made for europe the set is 50 Hz.
I'm from brazil and The system Frequency (50 or 60) it used for the ps2 plataform, it means if your ps2 plataform was made in japan(like my plataform) or USA the system frequency maybe set to 60Hz else if your ps2 was made for europe the set is 50 Hz.
Zygalski
Ninja Samurai
Come back after you've played 5 matches on both modes.RAISH said:
RAISH
I WRITE THE BOOK
- 19 June 2004
Zygalski said:
i have, and the slowdown on 60hz in the box is way more noticable than in 50hz.
Whilst I'd love to play with 60hz all the time, 50hz is better because it has reduced slowdown when there is loads of players in a particular area. Ie corner kicks etc.
Whats your opinion Z?
Zygalski
Ninja Samurai
First reply of the thread 
There is a difference in the pace of the game, depending on which setting you choose.
There is a difference in the pace of the game, depending on which setting you choose.
There is no difference in how fast the players and the ball move across the pitch on the two modes.
The option is thre because in Japan and America NTSC tvs update at a rate of 60 times per second. In Europe the defualt is 50.
When playing a console game, the developers set the game to wait until the TV is finished putting each frame onto the screen before allowing it to continue onto the next frame. So, on a standard European tv the game only updates 50 times and in NTSC countries it updates 60 times per second. Newer PAL tvs also support either NTSC itself or a similar system called PAL60 which updates 60 times also.
That's the reason why 50 and 60htz modes exists, now here's the difference they make.
Games do not update their input every fram, most games do it every 10 frames or there abouts, so you will have a more fluid control system if you are updating 6 times a frame rather than 5, it just makes the game a little more responsive. 60 updates rather than 5 also give smoother animations. So the players move at the same speed but their legs and arms are updated more often on 6o hrtz mode meaning it looks a lot nicer.
So, for the increased responsiveness and fluiditi you get, you have to pay a price. Updating 60 times in one second means that you have only 0.01666 seconds to make all of the needed calculations to update that frame. Updating 50 times a second gives you 0.02 secs per frame.
Slow down occurs when the frame takes longer to process than it takes the TV to update becasue the tv will update whether the PS2 is ready or not and it the PS2 hasn't updated a new frame the old frame will be displayed making the screen appear to stick. The physics system will continue to update though so eventually either the game slows down to catch up with the animations or you just miss out the frames entirely or a mixture of both occurs.
So obviously the Pro Evo game needs between 0.01666 and 0.02 secs to complete a ful frame meaning that 50hrtz has no slowdown and 60htrz does. The only way konami could fix this would be to make the physics less realistic, remove some of the AI calculations or make the graphics and animations look worse. None of which are a good idea.
So the bottom line is that in Europe at least we have a choice of whether we want to accept the slowdown or not and in NTSC countries they have to use 60htz or nothing.
The option is thre because in Japan and America NTSC tvs update at a rate of 60 times per second. In Europe the defualt is 50.
When playing a console game, the developers set the game to wait until the TV is finished putting each frame onto the screen before allowing it to continue onto the next frame. So, on a standard European tv the game only updates 50 times and in NTSC countries it updates 60 times per second. Newer PAL tvs also support either NTSC itself or a similar system called PAL60 which updates 60 times also.
That's the reason why 50 and 60htz modes exists, now here's the difference they make.
Games do not update their input every fram, most games do it every 10 frames or there abouts, so you will have a more fluid control system if you are updating 6 times a frame rather than 5, it just makes the game a little more responsive. 60 updates rather than 5 also give smoother animations. So the players move at the same speed but their legs and arms are updated more often on 6o hrtz mode meaning it looks a lot nicer.
So, for the increased responsiveness and fluiditi you get, you have to pay a price. Updating 60 times in one second means that you have only 0.01666 seconds to make all of the needed calculations to update that frame. Updating 50 times a second gives you 0.02 secs per frame.
Slow down occurs when the frame takes longer to process than it takes the TV to update becasue the tv will update whether the PS2 is ready or not and it the PS2 hasn't updated a new frame the old frame will be displayed making the screen appear to stick. The physics system will continue to update though so eventually either the game slows down to catch up with the animations or you just miss out the frames entirely or a mixture of both occurs.
So obviously the Pro Evo game needs between 0.01666 and 0.02 secs to complete a ful frame meaning that 50hrtz has no slowdown and 60htrz does. The only way konami could fix this would be to make the physics less realistic, remove some of the AI calculations or make the graphics and animations look worse. None of which are a good idea.
So the bottom line is that in Europe at least we have a choice of whether we want to accept the slowdown or not and in NTSC countries they have to use 60htz or nothing.
The input is more responsive and the ball moves more smoothly but it doesn't move any more quickly, it would just appear that way because the simulation is being updated at mroe frequent intervals.
If you believe PES uses accurate ball physics and you have the slightest clue about dynamics you'd know that time is what determines where the ball is not the number of frames and as the faster frame rate doesn't make time move any more quickly the ball moves at the same velocity in both modes.
Unless you're telling me that you believe that dynamics isn't used and that PES updates the ball based on constant values every frame then you'd be right. And if you were, PES wouldn't be as good as it is.
If you believe PES uses accurate ball physics and you have the slightest clue about dynamics you'd know that time is what determines where the ball is not the number of frames and as the faster frame rate doesn't make time move any more quickly the ball moves at the same velocity in both modes.
Unless you're telling me that you believe that dynamics isn't used and that PES updates the ball based on constant values every frame then you'd be right. And if you were, PES wouldn't be as good as it is.
RAISH
I WRITE THE BOOK
- 19 June 2004
so i was right also if there is a speed increase how come 50hz tv's can play against 60hz on live causing no difficulties?
Trust me there is no speed increase between 50 and 60.
Trust me there is no speed increase between 50 and 60.
ReMad
Non-League
- 5 August 2005
what about width and hight of each one?
The resolution heights are the same from the PS2s point of view.
The vertical resolution is 240 for most games although individual developers can change how the frame buffers are allocated in memory.
A TV works by "scanning" the picture onto the screen line by line. The difference is that the traditional PAL systems uses 625 scan lines where NTSC only uses 525. So either developers need to format their games to display properly on a PAL system by stretching the screen, actually rendering into the extra space (and using more CPU and GPU time to do so) or just format it to the NTSC system and allow the option to play in the NTSC format if the user has a TV which can support it.
The reason they need to do it from the NTSC system up to PAL is that you always need to work on the lowest common denominator when looking at utilising different standards and as PAL can display 525 lines and NTSC can't display 625 that's what we get stuck with in 50htz mode on games which support the two.
Once everyone can move onto HDTVs for games these issues will go away as HDTVs work much more like computer monitors and I'm sure the HD standards are international and not different for different regions of the world.
The vertical resolution is 240 for most games although individual developers can change how the frame buffers are allocated in memory.
A TV works by "scanning" the picture onto the screen line by line. The difference is that the traditional PAL systems uses 625 scan lines where NTSC only uses 525. So either developers need to format their games to display properly on a PAL system by stretching the screen, actually rendering into the extra space (and using more CPU and GPU time to do so) or just format it to the NTSC system and allow the option to play in the NTSC format if the user has a TV which can support it.
The reason they need to do it from the NTSC system up to PAL is that you always need to work on the lowest common denominator when looking at utilising different standards and as PAL can display 525 lines and NTSC can't display 625 that's what we get stuck with in 50htz mode on games which support the two.
Once everyone can move onto HDTVs for games these issues will go away as HDTVs work much more like computer monitors and I'm sure the HD standards are international and not different for different regions of the world.
Oh, another difference between NTSC and PAL is that PAL can display a finer range of colours, so this explains why some games look a little more washed out in 60hz mode compared to 50 although some games don't use large texture formats anyway due to video RAM limitations on the PS2 and the lack of detail in the NTSC system.
K
KARUKEKAO
Guest
im sorry if this is the wrong thread to ask this but i take tha chance to ask something to ZYGLASKI:it seems that u have played the final version and u know some more things than all of us,i wanted to ask you if u played the 2nd official demo for the pc..why it is easy and diffferent from the first pc demo and from the ps2 demo?? how is the final version going to be? like the first or the second pc demo? has konami changed mind last time and made a more easy and arcadish game?
The fact even that it appears faster at 50Hz when playing may as well mean that it is, and when all said and done thats the point. I can play 1 game at 60hz and seem to have time on the ball pick passes and all is well but than i can have a game at 50hz and it's like a whole new game faster and hard sometimes to keep up with the ball movements.Now my experience will brobably more noticable cos i play on an LCD widscreen disply at 16:9 even though no true WS option is in the game but i believe this really shows the differences between the 50/60hz playing modes.bonus said: