Attributes explanation, discussion, and system

I've got many ideas to concretise, but we need to debate and makes conclusion. Data are really important.

By taking a look at well know players sets of attributes, we can approximatively find how to rate some type of players, with logic, by making some brand new stats.
Stats that should be more easy to observ, relative to the player's position, playing style etc.

This discussion should be about football logic and observation. Data are very important while creating a team. We need to find a system togheter, like the Konami's one.

But some it's not an easy task to exactly gives a number for an Attacker in "Defensive prowess" or "Ball Winning", so how to rate it correctly? How to rate a player on "Place kicking" from a player that you've never seen him shooting one?

Remember that attributes are multi-functions... And it you need to think how to rate it without the ball/with the ball, teams in possession or without, etc.

I've thinked about 2 systems (i'm only talking about one for now on): to create like a converter on a 20 scale, by additionning some attributes different from FM, and more appropriate to PES.

It may be relatively easier to rate. Of course there will be limitations relative to some parameters, but like i've said before, we need to debate before about the attributes influence. I plan to open a thread talking about that project since PES 2015.

One example of simple reflexion i will purpose to discuss together, because we need to define the role and effectiveness of those attributes at first.

About "Defensive prowess" and "Ball Winning"
-For an attacker, if you look at it at first, Cavani (73/69), Mandzukic (67/67).
They are players which press and defend often. They've also got an good attribute on Stamina (93 and 90 for both)
On the other part, Mario Gomez (44/45) is not a player really implicated in terms of defending pressure. He's got 73 in Stamina.

So i think that "Defensive Prowess" and "Ball Winning" for an attacker are relative to a common attribute which can be renamed "Defensive Contribution/Agressivity".
It's pratically the same older stats rated on a 3/3 scale on PES 2013 (def. awareness), but i've renammed it.

>Def prowess for an attacker could be a combination of two stats, one technical and one mental attribute: "Defense positionning (or Def. Reflexes)" and "Defensive Contribution".

>Ball Winning could be "Tackling" and "Defensive Contribution" combination.

As an example in my FM converter i will use stats like Workrate/Agression/Tacle/Marking/Positionning for CF.

That's the first step, and i will update the first post, if you want to share what you think about that, we could create something great for the PES future, even posting it at Konami's.
 
Good idea. I think even FM misses some. Looking at individual attributes will indeed make players more unique.
 
Yes, FM misses some, you can't really do a perfect converter with their attributes.
Jumping Reach isn't "Jumping" in PES at all, there isn't "curve", "Lofted passes" or "Shooting Power". "Balance" doesn't have the same meaning.

But you can create an approximatively good FM>PES with some tricks: using Prefered moves (Shoots with power, Curls Ball, etc.)
That's what i'm planning to do, an FM>PES converter based on a bit of logic, but that's not an easy task to find good formulas: it's even more difficult than create a PES rating system like i purpose... I've tested some converter and there's always the same issue: Jumping reach, Physical Contact, Shooting power, Lofted passes and more recently Body control are bad rated.
 
fmicablues7 said:
This is an interesting topic, the only problem is... PES 2018 stats are useless, or have a very minimal impact to be fair.
Click to expand...

To be honest, i was waiting for an answer like that. It's more subtle and based on different parameters, but feel the difference personnally between strong and weak player on many areas.
Stats matters on PES 2016/17/18, but they're not handled like in previous title, it's more subtle: passing for example is more relative to a concrete situation while you're making a dangerous pass on "assisted", but you won't see any difference on basic and simple passes.

Also, nobody's could convince me when i see vids like "65 finishing goal" vids. It's only one goal, even if he's beautiful.
I've score many beautiful goals also on FIFA with players like Barzagli or whenever else...
Stats effectiveness needs to be calculated on a whole season and not one match CPU vs CPU on exhibition match.

It's not like you can score 25 goals per season with lower finisher in higher league, or 25 killer balls/assist.

But that's not really the purpose of this thread mate, it's more about to create "how to rate X player" system based on logic, even if stats are less pronounced or differently handled like i've said, they are there and represent the player strenghts and weaknesses, aswell as playing style.

So let's focus on that, talking football with PES attributes :)
 
vialli82 said:
To be honest, i was waiting for an answer like that. It's more subtle and based on different parameters, but feel the difference personnally between strong and weak player on many areas.
Stats matters on PES 2016/17/18, but they're not handled like in previous title, it's more subtle: passing for example is more relative to a concrete situation while you're making a dangerous pass on "assisted", but you won't see any difference on basic and simple passes.

Also, nobody's could convince me when i see vids like "65 finishing goal" vids. It's only one goal, even if he's beautiful.
I've score many beautiful goals also on FIFA with players like Barzagli or whenever else...
Stats effectiveness needs to be calculated on a whole season and not one match CPU vs CPU on exhibition match.

It's not like you can score 25 goals per season with lower finisher in higher league, or 25 killer balls/assist.

But that's not really the purpose of this thread mate, it's more about to create "how to rate X player" system based on logic, even if stats are less pronounced or differently handled like i've said, they are there and represent the player strenghts and weaknesses, aswell as playing style.

So let's focus on that, talking football with PES attributes :)
Click to expand...

I understand your point. I just want to add that it was proven by testing sprint speed on the whole pitch by Lami i think, that speed stats had nearly no differences, and i personally feel like it is the same for most of the stats. Pesstatsdatabase members also pointed that and they are veteran stat maker for pes, they know what they're doing.
 
fmicablues7 said:
I understand your point. I just want to add that it was proven by testing sprint speed on the whole pitch by Lami i think
Click to expand...
Yes, i know that, but there's also vids which proves the contrary (speed test with every speedsters VS).
Also, i've tested myself on a real match and i outburst players with Reus or Aubameyang on the flank or in the center of the pitch... I can make things in terms of speed which are impossible with slower "Post Player" type. So i don't really understand "how effective" neither.

Also PSD guys doesn't play current PES at all, i'm on that community since a long time and i'm also a veteran player/stats tester. You'll see it in my future post, i know what i'm talking about without saying that i've got the holy truth of course.

On PSD now talks more about football and PES 6 to 2013, they don't really care about the 2015 to 2018 versions. But i may understand them, they're more disappointed by the reduction in terms of numbers of stats more than the game itself since PES 2014.

Only Epsi, one member that i've talked about and sharing some information take cares about current PES, but doesn't participate with the community for now on because he's hired as a data editor and now, he knows better that how PSD ratings and Konami's are really different, he's done stats for Serie A with some others Data Editor.

Ps: i will respond later or in another thread and continue my work of observation/data system, otherwhise the project will never be concretised.
 
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I am more familiar with PES6 than current gen but I think both should be taken into consideration as a lot of people play old and new.
 
@Titch i can rename it to "New gen attributes system" if you want, but i can't do both... PSD are good for that.

Like i've said in the first post, the system i purpose will combinate multiple stats for making one set in PES.
We will share a melting pot of ideas, then make it clear and concrete, with numerical values. Not all the values will be on a 20 scale... That's another idea.
The last step will be to create a program, on excel or whatever to create sets of players, or perhaps some standards sets of players.

But for now on, it's better to focus on attributes themselves. The system concretisation may be on another thread.

It will be a bit difficult for me in english because i don't have a vast vocabulary in english like i've got in french lol.
Note: Deducted/invented stats will be in blue, while PES stats will be on mauve font for more visibility.
There will be two types of attributes with the Deducted invented ones.

"Tacle" is a Technical value.
while and "Defensive Contribution/Agressivity" for an Attacker rating in "Ball Winning"

For having a good player set, we need to focus on three principal things: the player's behavior (mental) and decisions, and effectiveness (the attributes himself).
 
Fair enough. Will be good to follow anyway. Seeing this thread has made me think about each stat and what actions a player takes ie a player might be good at passing or shooting but what is it that makes him pass or shoot more?
 
What's make him shoots more is based on playing style, but also players skills.

From short/middle range, if you want a CPU player which shoots in every position, you need to combine one playing style "Goal Poacher" with two players skills like "Accrobatic finishing" and "First time shots".
It will augment the shooting frequency consistently, Inzaghi style.

For another type of player which shoots from middle/long range often, you've got "Fox in the box" associate with "Long ranger" alone.
And for Midfilders who shoots very often from long range it's simple: "Hole player" associated with "Long ball expert" BUT if you've put "Long ranger" and "Long rall expert" together, the CPU will alternate between the two.

Btw, you need to think in relationship with attributes: a player may shoots very often from every distance but not accuratelly...
Djibril Cissé is one of the best example, if i may rate him at his peak, he will give him 92-93 on Kicking power, 71-72 on Finishing, "Fox in the box"... But not the skills "Long range drive", i think it makes long shoots more accurate.

Tomorrow i will talk about aerial play, especially about Jumping, especially for attacker, and how can we "divide" this attribute like i've done with Def Prowess.
I know it's a difficult attribute to rate correctly.
 
I've forgot to respond to your question about passing frequency...
For that, there's "Classic's Number 10" for playing style, and gives him a lower top speed will make him in the obligation to passes more often the ball.
"Creative playmaker" may have an approximatively similar impact, but with more movement.
In terms of player skills, there's all the related passes which influes too, but for example the "Weighted Pass" will makes the :triangle: trought ball more accurate, but it's more about the passing bar that will be more "weighted" like the title said.
 
Sorry for OT @vialli82 . Between manual passes vs. level 1 passes and/or manual shoots vs. base shòots where stats matters more? Thanks in advance.
 
Off course they matters more.
It influes on the power bar for the dosage (less or more sensitive regarding to the player stats finishing/passing), but also for shooting and passing in a difficult position.

But there's a sensitive assistance in manual passing too, and this assistance will be less or more regarding the stats.
For shooting, i only think only the position (shooting technique) may have an influence, but i'm basing on PES 2015/16/17.
I personnally dislike manual shooting and i prefers to stay on basic. I personnally like the basic shooting from this year. It's better than PES 2017 in that area, more sensitve and the ball reaches less the goal on certains positions.
But the most horrendous PES game until now in terms of shooting was PES 2016 (too easy, too straight, too strong).
 
Greetings @vialli82 i appreciate that you try to analyze technical issues of PES like how stats working.I'll keep an eye on your updates. I would like to ask you two questions, the one 50% offtopic. As an amateur pes-editor i have spent hundreds of hours editing stats especially when i create players that do not exist in game data or veterans (legends or not) that were retired recently. So my first question, as i am using PSD to create their stats is why do they keep to give players bigger stats than KONAMI does? Especially for example when a player is introduced in the original database and i compare the stats i gave him before from PSD are more OP than KONAMI, and i have noticed that in PSD they give every player much rating in Agility/Explosiveness and Ballwinning for some reason. They give much higher defensive values even for attacking players like Cfs and SSs. Since you are a member do you know the formula behind this?A totally different POV about stats?
My second question is how would you evaluate the stats for a recent retired player. Examples like Rosicky,Arteta or Ronaldinho.I like to create them or Pires,Henry since the age system has expanded over 45 in PES. My basic policy is to find their original stats from PES master from their last official PES presence or from PSD*(* if they were in game with the old traits and stats like acceleration/shot technique) and just nerf some physical aspects like top speed/speed , or explosive power and stamina but i keep high characteristics like dribble accuracy/dribbling or technique/swerve, that i believe cannot become worse over years, i mean better speed and stamina come through training but controlling the ball or curving is more a natural talent than a matter of training or professionalism.
Thank you very much and sorry for my long explanations. :)
 
I think a few new stats should be implemented, for both Attacking and Defending.

  • Inertia.
  • Momentum (Attack).
  • Close control.
  • Ball shielding.
  • Timing - when ON the ball.
  • Timing - when OFF the ball.
  • First touch - whether a player decides to pass, perform a volley, shoot, lob or do whatever upon receiving the ball. Specially when receiving air balls like long lofted passes. Players like Suarez shine here.
  • Ball control - this one is already in the game but doesn't make a single bit of difference but it should be one of the most important ones - For example: Di Maria has an awful ball control, because most of the times, the ball goes out of play or goes to a rival when trying to receive and control a lofted pass or a quick through ball. While Neymar, Hazard, Messi kill the ball and are already performing the next move while the defender is still wondering how they did that.

And then, I'm thinking there must be some cognitive new stats.

Like 'perception'. Some players are always at the right place, at the right time. That's what makes the best players in the world the best. Whether it's a goalkeeper or a center-forward.

Another one should be emotional control. Some players get demoralized when they miss a clear scoring opportunity or when their team gets a goal scored against them. Or when missing a few passes in a row.

Nowadays mentality is a key factor in football players. Sterling is one of those players who will become better and better through out a match if their first actions result in positive individual efforts, whilst the complete opposite happens if they miss an easy goal. They just get a mental block for the rest of the match.
 
They've got their own overall calculations in PSD, and the only reason that the players are using the old PES 6 system converted with some formulas, like it was the case with PES 2014.
"Def prowess" in PES 2014 was calculated like this : (Defence+Defense+Reaction)/3, same for Attacking prowess (Attack+Attack+Reaction)/3
And for ball winning, i've found the formula myself while regarding PES 2014 stats, it was :

(Body Balance+Body Balance+Defence)/3
BUT if a player have a A rating in AMF, you multiply the stat by 0.80, For CF/SS it was 0.70, LMF 0.85 etc. etc.
That was some kind of formula's done with the old PES team in waiting of a new system to rate those new attributes. But it's obsolete now.
I've found the formula myself so you can count on me.

For the recent retired player, it depends if you want to rate them at their peak or on a certain era. I don't really thinked about how to create those type of player, but yes you can diminue them on pratically every stats, but more athletic stats like Speed/Explosive power/Stamina/ in priority. But every stats needs to be toned down.
Dribble is relative to dribble speed in PES 2017/18, Attacking prowess is relative to reactions, and i think retired players loose pratically everything with a long inactivity, but yes, 1st speed/athletic stats, 2nd power stats (Physical contact) and 3rd technical.
 
@Chuny pratically all the stats that your purpose are too hard to observ, pratically impossible to put a number on it.
I'm ok with Mental stats and first touch btw.
Ball Shielding can be a special skill, but not a stat that you could rate between 40 and 99.
But even that, it's relative to Physical Contact/Body control.

Timing is too vague and it's not really an attributes (you already got Attacking and Def prowess for players reactivity when he's on attack or defense) I've never heard, in any football match i've see "this player is very good, he's got a good inertia", inertia is something in correlation with the physical engine which try to reproduce physical reality and not something to rate...

I think we go too much OT. The system i purpose is only to "decompose" actual attributes, something we can rate more easy.
Like when i said "Defensive Contribution/Workate" is something related to Def Prowess, for a CF... It's only because it's easier to observ for an attacker.
You only can rate what you can observ, we need things to be more concrete, stats to be clarified.
 
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Really fascinating discussion, Vialli. I wonder if a more meticulous edit work on the stats could make a major difference at least on a larger scale of games. I'll follow with interest.

By the way I'd just be happy with them bringing in again the old deleted stats.. just that.
 
The fact is that before, pratically everything was handled by stats. Now, with the new physical engine, some of them aren't needed to make a player more agile (with lower weight) and Mentality/Agression/Shots techniques aren't sorted by numerical values, but with player skills like Captaincy, Acrobatic finishing etc.

With a larger database than before, more and more players/teams to create, they also needed to reduce stats to a certain "minima", and it's easier for them i imagine.
But we've got new skills for GK's, a Ball Winning attribute in more too. Some stats are already too vague in terms of description, and it was also the case before with old school stats.
There was some stats that was a hell of difficult to rate, like teamwork/passing speed.

The issue with passing speed was that a player with a high passing speed makes speedy passing... All the time. It's nowhere near realistic neither, plus we've got a passing bar now.
A good pass is a "Weighted pass" not specially a speedy one (and there's a skill like that since PES 2016 i think)

Yes it's interesting, because talking stats is talking real like football with PES in the main time... With at least the interpretation of players and their real life counterpart.

Making a set of stat will always be contradicted, because it may be subjective. So i've thinked about what can be observable and what can't, thinking football with simple logic, is the best way to find an accurate "rating system".
The main issue with Konami is... Produced talks japanese and don't understand english.

There's too much lost in translation and no discussions about attributes, their real description and how does all of it works on the game, and how can you rate correctly a player from lower to higher league (even if we can devine that it's a matter of reputation, and proof on a real match)
 
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Hello @vialli82, you PM'd me in PSD. You know that's exactly the kind of stuff i dig about PES. Accurately representing the players, teams. This has to be done by ourselves, since Konami rates with too little care.

I'm not really found of the idea to make PES stats with a converter. It's always flawed in some ways. But i guess there's no other way, i wanted to do the whole L1/L2 for @kilay's patch but it was too much work.

I think you have to know both the players and PES new gen stats to make it work. Did you successfully emulated a player in PES with FM stats? I don't think it's possible. Maybe it'd be better than Konami's stats though.

There's a lot to be said about ladders. Both overall and for each skill. These are how the AI simulates the game. Choose who won, who scores the most in ML etc. The Overall team/player ladders determine how good a team will be compared to their contenders. For example with Konami stats, United wins the PL all the time. Just up City or Napoli stats a bit and they'll contend. So there is this way of using stats too. For example Lyon was decimated in the summer and Konami made the stats before the end of the transfer window, leading to massive holes in some squads. I think it's one of the most important things to do with stats to make a good gaming experience in a ML. Make all players thus clubs play at their actual level. This encompass lowering some overall and stats for players who don't or rarely play. You want immersion, you want the teams to play with who they play irl. Form is here for you, those lowered players will still play when they have a green/blue arrow. It is my suspicion that green arrow gives you a +5 in each stat, and blue +10. Totally unrealistic i agree, but it made me see and rate stats differently. Now i rate them according to their consistency even more. I rate harsher all the superfluous stats for each player, and the ones they consistently show the most i rate them good. For example DP and BW for the CBs i rate a lot of them slightly better than what Konami does. But i'm harsh on TS and EP since it would make them irrealistically good when they're on form. While a winger with a lot of pace will be rated high in speed values, and i'll keep low passing stats (67-73) since form arrow will still allow them to make good passes for some games. So for flaws or inconsistency at stats i'm a lot harder than before.

I'll keep discussing later cuz i could write all night long on that subject ahah. You have to give me more specific guidelines on what you want to achieve and how can we help.
 
Hi mate, welcome!
The FM > PES converter is something else than the "rating system" project, i'm very busy so i don't have time for now on to developp two big ideas i've got about it.
That system is not related to FM.

But all i can say that it looks a bit like a Q and A following system, or a "slider" system if you prefers, based on playing style/bevahior on the pitch, which will result in numbers.

A bit difficult to explain now on, because i'm doing totally other stuff... I need to find the good words to explain this, and i think it may be a system that Konami's could use in japan, with a "logical" way to distribute points, or removing.

But the goal is to create players not in game more than re-do players already in, appart from totally forgotten sets (same sets since PES 2015 for some players, with 60 in Body Control because they don't have time to rate one new attribute).
 
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What you relieve about overall @sanji is really interesting, but also with + form.
We can base rely on this, yes.
Also one thing i wanted to mention about Overall, is there's multiple type of players, the number of "points" don't always makes the player's better than another: only overally as a complete player.
For example, There's kind of players with a low/average overall of points, but well know for being specialist in some area which makes them great and very popular.

-Inzaghi is one of the best example you can take: he's not really a good technical player, neither a physical strength of nature, a bit more speedy than another player.
But he's super specialist in his area (Attacking/Finishing/+special skills) and be more effective if you use him well than an more "complete" and modern striker.

Edit: I take him as an example, not relying on his actual set (unmodified with same "60" body control in PES like many converted players from PES 2016 to PES 2017-18)
But what he should represent if we understand how to rate him, and well.

I think there's two type of overalls and that's how we need to interpret PES rating, before judging many players or giving him an overall number.
There's for me, two (even three, if you takes actual form) kind of overall, one as a specialist in a certain position, and another as complete player.

It's obvious but we need to re-considered this, or example, Inzaghi as a CF should have a very high rating as a "striker" but not as a "complete forward/player".
That's what how we need to interpret PES stats, i means in methodological terms of points distributions... And it's not an easy task.
And it's the same for many players, but in the reverse terms, like i don't know which player i can take, but some player like Lacazette or whataver else can have a relatively high overall (in terms of points), but not really specialist: he's just a bit speedy than some striker, a bit stronger, a bit technical, a little bit more finisher.
His overall values in PES should be approximatively the same as Inzaghi, if you follow the system.

I will talk later about the system i've thinked, with "standards", what we really misses in the PES community is a way to create players at least based on what we knows about him (his behaviour, example: way too defend, shoot, passes, runs etc. i will developp that later), that's the objective and scientific part...
But then, and it will be a bit more subjective and contrasted: how well does he performs.

I approximately know from talking with data editor that there's types of players they need to rate classified from A to H (higher to the lower) imposed by Konami's for players, with limitations (which also change with the positions the players performs), and then they need to rate the player with a certain system...

So we go from the obvious to the complexity... But also not too complex and with average given number for less knowns players. That's what the system i want to build purpose.
There's many solutions we can discuss about, but i think there's obvious things, like for example a player that plays essentially Post player in attack will receive more passes/crossing more than he will share (lower value in lofted passe primary and low pass secondary).


It sound like a bit complicated at first read, but when i'm gonna have a bit more time, it will be more and more obvious to understand the system i will purpose with a bit of logic.

Remember this quote "We are gonna rate a player only on what we can observ and concludes about him" so it's gonna be easier than you think of my long long post...
 
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@vialli82

Hi Pal

Really interesting thread, i love to take care about Pes Stats since long time and i have seen on Pes 2018 there are a lot of players with overrated stats. I'm an ex Modder of Pes and i know what you talking about. Is ashame to see that for example many GK stats are around 90 despite they are "normal players"...let's talk about of physical contacts...i saw that the Defenders(a lot of them) takes an advantage than Forwards...i understand that in this football era the Defenders are all almost tallest with a great balance and weight too. But in this way they took advantages cause if i go with for example Dybala that have around 70 against a defender with 90 don't worry that the defender ALWAYS get better in physical contacts...but this is not truly right cause if you see Messi or someone else that have not physical strenght, you can see that they may wins duels even against "physical strenght" Defender

Even for Recovery ball and Defence you can see a lots of them really overrated

Now i use my method(in the previous Pes i used to play on Pc with Fm stats inside Pes Editor) to find "balance" between Forward and Defender

Are you agree with me?

P.s are you italian?
 
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Hi mate, and sorry that i can't really keeps this thread alive for the moment, i'm very busy...

I'm living in Belgium, italian by origins (pugliese > foggia) and juventino as you can see, but happy that Foggia playing now in Serie B

GK stats, you means the new stats for Goalkeeping or others "outfield players" attributes? (I couldn't give my opinion if i don't understand)

About Defence, you needs to take the whole combination some attributes and not one in particulary: one attribute is multifonctions so it's a bit hard to find "how to rate X player on X attribute correctly?", and what i've purposed in this thread is, and it will be clearer >

To decompose for example one attributes on multiple attributes (i'll explain later how to do that), but easier to observ and rate with football logic. CB in Off prowess, as a dumb example will be more rated as his "offensive contribution".

For example, there's attributes with the ball, off the ball, both, on possession, how does the players prefers to dribble, shoots, passes, runs, his movements etc.

To create a system based on that. Even if you don't know all there shouldn't be an issue BUT the player will only be more "standardised". I've planned that.

Now i'm respond to what you think about Physical Contact: there's a new stat called Body Control, and Messi have 95 in this attribute. With that attributes, with the ball especially, he cand win some contact vs 90+ PC defender.
He will be pushed and loose balance, but his body control will resolve that issue. So now you've got two complementary attributes...
That's not all about those new attributes, i'm sorry that i don't have time to explain this further.

On may i'll do an FM converter, and i'll be working on the rating system on june/july (not avaible for now on), just before PES 2019.

So we've gonna have essentials tools for creating players on PES... Because when i see some teams created by many option file makers, my eyes are going out on a trip when i see that they only have changed names and faces, and nothing about stats... Only downgrading by 5 points everywhere for the overall. It was never like this in the past option file, PS2 and PS3 era.

I (we) really need to change that paypal donating patch from doing anything but kits and some faces, without any passion for ratings and players representations, balance between teams.
 
I didn't realise people did that with stats. Not changing them I mean. They are an important part of the game and shouldn't be skipped over.
 
vialli82 said:
Hi mate, and sorry that i can't really keeps this thread alive for the moment, i'm very busy...

I'm living in Belgium, italian by origins (pugliese > foggia) and juventino as you can see, but happy that Foggia playing now in Serie B

GK stats, you means the new stats for Goalkeeping or others "outfield players" attributes? (I couldn't give my opinion if i don't understand)

About Defence, you needs to take the whole combination some attributes and not one in particulary: one attribute is multifonctions so it's a bit hard to find "how to rate X player on X attribute correctly?", and what i've purposed in this thread is, and it will be clearer >

To decompose for example one attributes on multiple attributes (i'll explain later how to do that), but easier to observ and rate with football logic. CB in Off prowess, as a dumb example will be more rated as his "offensive contribution".

For example, there's attributes with the ball, off the ball, both, on possession, how does the players prefers to dribble, shoots, passes, runs, his movements etc.

To create a system based on that. Even if you don't know all there shouldn't be an issue BUT the player will only be more "standardised". I've planned that.

Now i'm respond to what you think about Physical Contact: there's a new stat called Body Control, and Messi have 95 in this attribute. With that attributes, with the ball especially, he cand win some contact vs 90+ PC defender.
He will be pushed and loose balance, but his body control will resolve that issue. So now you've got two complementary attributes...
That's not all about those new attributes, i'm sorry that i don't have time to explain this further.

On may i'll do an FM converter, and i'll be working on the rating system on june/july (not avaible for now on), just before PES 2019.

So we've gonna have essentials tools for creating players on PES... Because when i see some teams created by many option file makers, my eyes are going out on a trip when i see that they only have changed names and faces, and nothing about stats... Only downgrading by 5 points everywhere for the overall. It was never like this in the past option file, PS2 and PS3 era.

I (we) really need to change that paypal donating patch from doing anything but kits and some faces, without any passion for ratings and players representations, balance between teams.
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I'm italian that's why i was asking you...and then i saw your picture of Luca Vialli :)

P.s i'm Juventus fan as well :)

So about physic contact i understand what you mean,and i'm agree with you

For Gk i meaning stats as Gk only...it's hard to see that some normal players gets 90/91/92 in their stats

There's not good balance this year from Konami for the stats...Fifa in this case especially for price in Career Mode is better...84 Overall in Fifa will cost for example 40 M in Pes you can buy players but at less price,and that is for me not really good :)
 
Sorry, i was too busy i forgot to answer...
Now i've got a little more time.

Overall in PES is just an indicator, and takes all attributes in consideration, even if different position > different formula.
In Fifa, and you can see it with the overall algorithm calculator (google it if you want) there are some stats which aren't taken at all in consideration for a CB (Dribbling, Finishing for example).
So it's the same for Goalkeepers.

But i know it isn't what you mean about player rating in GK attributes: you see that there isn't as much GKeepers rated differently, like for example a player with 95 in Reflexes but 75 in Diving, 85 in Goalkeeping, 80 in Coverage etc.
If i understand what you mean: is more that goalkeeping stats for goalkeepers (obvious) at first looks seems to be rated on for example a "5" or "10" scale (except Clearing i think) like 85 in Reflexes, 87 Diving, 86 Coverage, 83 Diving ect.
Is that what you mean by "overrated"?

For that, i'm okay, but it doesn't really ennoy me that much.

But if you talks about normal GKs having high stats, i don't think that there is really an issue...
-Goalkeepers are rare, and if you think that there is one which can be really called "titular" on every teams and even if some have difficulty to find their true titular and makes turnovers... You can conclude that's being a titular goalkeeper even in an average league is a real chance, and reserved for the elite.

It's a really particular position, rare, and there are many very good goalkeepers in the world which are on the bench only because his teamate is slightly better than the other...

Taking liverpool as an example
http://pesdb.net/pes2018/?id=113403
http://www.pesmaster.com/s-mignolet/pes-2018/player/42664/

Both same approximatively good rating approximatively, Liverpool needs to choose which is the best for being titular, which fits to most. Clearing is less important so i personnally don't take it in consideration, both seems the same even if KARIUS have 65 in Physical Contact and Mignolet "75" and a bit taller... But for that, i didn't have really checked about how does Physical contact really influes for a goalkeeper, perhaps he's more solid.

To be honest that's a position that i didn't have that much for now on, take a big and precise looks at.
 
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