Attributes explanation, discussion, and system

For now on, i will send to Gabe all database relative "mistakes", but for that i need to to check all the players in the whole database.
That's a work i've do last year, but a bit too late to share it: i wasn't too much on option files.

Then i will try to made an provisory FM converter (i've already made the basis on excel) those two weeks.
The project of this thread i've mentionned here which are two different things, but i'll start this after.

For the FM converter, there's two thing i don't have idea how to convert it...
There isn't Secondary Striker position on FM, and i can't find a way to make a player With SS : "A" and CF : "B" (like a Maradona, Messi, Del Piero etc.)... The result always gives CF : "A" and SS : "A".
Also, i don't know how to make the card "Joker", but i will find.

I think about using transfermarkt for positions in adequation with FM, perhaps a converter less automatic but more accurate.
I've checked players on this website, and they're similar to PES positions in many ways (some players have only Secondary Striker as position)

Next time i'll talk about Jumping, i've got an interesting way to rate it correctly.
 
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[USER = 62467] @ vialli82 [/ USER] questa è la mia statistica di suggesstion final

EDIT PLAYER DESCRIZIONE ABILITA E CARTE
ABILITA GIOCATORE
ATTACCO ( new pes )
POTENZA TIRO( new pes)
ASSIST( pes 14 cambio ruolo per vedere i valorial portiere )
FINALIZZAZIONE ( new pes)
DIFESA ( new pes )
SCIVOLATA( new fifa)
MARCATURA A UOMO ( new fifa )
RECUPERO PALLA( new pes)
VELOCITA DRIBBLING ( veloc e agilita pes 14 converter,cambio ruolo per vedere i valori al portiere )
PRECISIONE DRIBBLING ( dribling new pes )
PRECISIONE PASSAGGI0 CORT0( new pes )
PRECISIONE PASSAGGIO LUNGO ( new pes)
PRECISIONE PALLE LUNGHE( pes 14 converter comb abilita ,cambio ruolo x il portiere)
CROSS ( fifa new )
TESTA( new pes )
VISIONE DI GIOCO( pes 14 conv. combinaz. abilita, cambio ruolo per vedere il stats al gk)
TIRO DALLA DISTANZA ( new fifa)
TIRO A VOLO ( new fifa)
EFFETTO ( new pes)
TECNICA ( ball controll pes new )
PRECISIONE PIEDE DEBOLE ( new pes )
FREQUENZA PIEDE DEBOLE ( new pes )
COMPORTAMENTO OFFENSIVO( pes 13 e 12 )
COMPORTAMENTO DIFENSIVO (pes 13 e 12)
1 VS 1 VS GK ( ISTINTO DEL GOL)( pes 14 abilita combinazione per gk cambio ruolo )
MOSSE ABILITA ( fifa)
CALCI DI PUNIZIONE ( new pes )
CALCI D'ANGOLO ( pes 14 abil. combin)
RIGORI (pes 14 abilita combin )
MENTALITA- ( Physical Contact new oppure tenacia pes 13 o 12 )
CONTRIBUTO ( pes 14 abil. combinazion, per gk cambio ruolo )
REATTIVITA ( fifa )
GIOCO SQUADRA ( pes old o lo faccio io )
AGGRESSIONE ( fifa)
ACCELERAZIONE ( fifa)
VELOCITA( pes new)
AGILITA( pes new)
RESISTENZA ( new pes)
SALTO( new pes)
EQUILIBRIO ( body controll new pes )
FORZA FISICA ( pes 14 abili combin )
FORZA AEREA ( pes 14 abilit combin )
FORMA FISICA ( new pes )
CONTRASTO IN PIEDI ( fifa )
RESISTENZA INFORTUNI ( pes )
ABILITA DEI PORTIERI
RIFLESSI ( new pes )
COSTANZA( pes 14 abilit comb )
PRESA(new pes )
1 VS 1-( pes 14 abilit comb )
PIAZZAMENTO( fifa stats )
TUFFO( fifa stats )
RESPINTA ( new pes )
ABILITA PALLE ALTE ( pes 14 abilita combin )
ABILITA FUORI DAI PALI ( pes 14 abilita combinaz )
RINVIO ( fifa )
ABILITA PORTIERE ( PES)
 
Personalmente mi piace il tuo listing, ma è un poco troppo da notare, quasi più di FM (+ i portiere è "hidden stats", cè approximamente 50 statistiche)
45 + 12 per i GK = 57... Su 99 non è possibile. Tra 1>20 + "skills speziale", perchè no?
Se dovrebbe aggiuntare 3 o 4 statistiche su 99, sarabebbe "Crossing/Workrate/Dribbling Speed/Agility (potrebbe "Long Shoot", ma il resto sarabbe più nel "special skills"

La combinazione di tutti i statistiche insieme e la quantità sarebbe sufficiente per avrebbe una buona rappresentazione di un giocatore... Più il su valori totale.

PS: se vorei parlare qui e continuare la discuzione, e meglio di parlare inglese grazie a tu per la contribuzione
If you want to talk here, it's better in english language, thanks mate (i won't traduce all)
 
I've posted this on the wrong thread (database check)

It was planned, and i've got some formulas writen on paper, but i didn't have time to made one.
But the purpose of this thread was to made something else, a "stat creator" based on what we can observ for some type of player...

I've got a principal idea, and a two secondary... But the principal idea was this:

-At first you will have some question about the player's type. Then you'll have style particulary but also some special features.

Some example about a slider type for a winger, does he prefers to:
Stay on his side VS Goes axial.

Here's two ideas of sliders from 0-5-10 or 5-0-5 (i prefer the second personnally)

If the slider is in the middle (zero), the player doesn't have any kind of preference, and will be more "balanced" with the relative attributes which are specific when he plays and run with the ball (Dribbling, Speed, Explosive Power, for example)

The result of all those sliders combinated will create a limitation system for attributes.

I think about two kind of sliders when regarding PES 2013 sliders just now... But that's another story.

About the 2 others "systems"...
-One is more precise but it's way harder to made, i don't know how to recreate it on excel
-And the other is a bit easier to made, but perhaps less precise

I won't be available until end june, starting july for that project
 
One question, for you people, do you prefer that i made this project first, or an FM converter a bit more adapted to the new system with more "extreme values" in some attributes?

Because it will takes time, i want the FM as balanced as possible, and the project needs to be discussed together.
It's not that i don't like the FM attributes, but some of them will be a bit approximative, but it's only an easy way to re-create players which aren't in game.

And i want one or the other to be made before PES 2019, and corrected while PES 2019 will cames out (with new skills)
 
So, we're gonna try to make one.
I'm gonna try to share my ideas about how i've planned to make it, and you gives me opinions and correct me.

The idea is to make the "stats generator" like you've said, understable and representative.

But it's needed at first to talk about how to understand attributes meaning and combinations, what can we observ about a player etc.
I've been very busy, and i will have some other work to do before the end June, that's why i didn't continue to complete this thread, not because i didn't care anymore (my mind is not really on this).

So i shall continue when i will be more available, because it's truely a real work to explain clearly some attributes with a "scientific" method.
 
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There are dozens of factors that can contribute to generating stats. Height, weight, age, position, club, country, the list goes on. It might even be possible to use certain traits that we know about a player to assist in the generation and using historic player models too.
 
I've got much time now, and i was working on my own option file, for playing it a little...

After that, but i will work those two coming months on a converter to have it for PES 2019 at least, but there's very weirdly rated player in FM...
I can't fully guarantee fully the results, many players have a very different represention of their strength/weakness on FM, in comparison to PES or FIFA.
 
vialli82 said:
I've got much time now, and i was working on my own option file, for playing it a little...

After that, but i will work those two coming months on a converter to have it for PES 2019 at least, but there's very weirdly rated player in FM...
I can't fully guarantee fully the results, many players have a very different represention of their strength/weakness on FM, in comparison to PES or FIFA.
Click to expand...
you big converter stats ;)
sei un grande aspetto il tuo convertitore
 
I will repeat for not made you read the whole thread: i'm way too busy for doing it for now.
I'm also a facemaker, and got tons of players to do.

So right now on i don't really have time... And i'm editing 24/24 lol.

Unfortunately, because that's something i really wanted to work on it, when PES 2020 should be released.
But on Pesuniverse we got two stats makers, and me to gives some advice too
 
I like this thread.

reminds me of the 5 point milestone system which has always been in PES but needs to be hard-coded as a Stat Bible to give the best amount of realism.

The theory is from 100-50 with anything under 50 bar physical attributes such as Sprint speed and acceleration basically being the same as 50 but an emphasis on how inconsistent, poor and how hopeless a persons awareness or ability is with a given attribute.

One thing i hate doing which is my motivation for this is reducing Lukaku's ball control to rightfully 60-65. He has dreadful ball control and first touch. His dribbling is good though and all his other stats should be pretty high. But this extreme should show with every player.

Harry Kane's stats are a joke, they are clearly boosted so he gets a 90 so people wet themselves when they get him as a black ball, since he's such a marketed asset his stats don't represent him at all properly. His ball control and dribbling do not belong even at his peak anywhere near the 80's low 70's at best! He's not a technically gifted player, hes barely shearer's level in technique, hes a proven world class goalscorer but his stats should represent that, you should be forced to use him as a poacher, who can hod the ball up, play thins very simple and use his complete array of finishing skills. He's rated as if he's like a Super Sayin Shevchenko!

here is the link to my point explained much more detail many, many years ago!
https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/pes-2014-discussion-thread.70602/page-296#post-2763010
 
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Kane should be rated differently to raise 90... I don't know, there's also Finishing, Header, Kicking power by just one point if the really want to transforms him to a black ball.
But that's the editor choice. I totally agree about dribbling, but Ball Control is not really technique, but chest control, shooting after a control (first time shoot, but in stats).

This set is not an example i agree totally, but just have to said stats are not like in Fifa: they're multifunctions.
Some stats in Fifa are too, but it's very rare (dribbling and speed for example)
Kicking power is not Shooting power: "Kicking" includes also long range passes, clearing as an example...
And kicking speed too, which nobody's think about it but try two player with 40 vs 99: you'll see the difference as the 40 will struggle to kick, and be slower to do it.

Even if i don't think it's taking in consideration while rating, because there's not only Data editor but also Konami's team doing stats. J-League Mobile for example is done in intern.
 
vialli82 said:
Kane should be rated differently to raise 90... I don't know, there's also Finishing, Header, Kicking power by just one point if the really want to transforms him to a black ball.
But that's the editor choice. I totally agree about dribbling, but Ball Control is not really technique, but chest control, shooting after a control (first time shoot, but in stats).

This set is not an example i agree totally, but just have to said stats are not like in Fifa: they're multifunctions.
Some stats in Fifa are too, but it's very rare (dribbling and speed for example)
Kicking power is not Shooting power: "Kicking" includes also long range passes, clearing as an example...
And kicking speed too, which nobody's think about it but try two player with 40 vs 99: you'll see the difference as the 40 will struggle to kick, and be slower to do it.

Even if i don't think it's taking in consideration while rating, because there's not only Data editor but also Konami's team doing stats. J-League Mobile for example is done in intern.
Click to expand...

What FIFA do far better than PES due to money and the amount of data editors they have is balance ratings especially for mid and lower tier teams. PES have improved in this area but still struggle to balance even young players coming through at their big partnered teams like i see with my Arsenal kids. Take Saka's rating, its pretty bad research for me!

Where PES destroys FIFA is how the stats are coded into the gameplay itself. PES has always been built off those 5 point milestones. What i feel has been lost is something i will show with the Every 4 Years Project where we have ratings for Pele, Maradona, Ronaldo, Zidane at their very peak powers as cast iron awareness to what each milestone or value should represent. So people will stop and see things like.

"Wait Harry Kane has a higher rating than prime Batitstuta from 1998? I didn't know Harry Kane could score at will from 20-30 yards out?"

It gives perspective, it shows he's a world class striker within the comparative quality now but if he was around 20 years ago he'd be around Chris Sutton's level!

The problems we see in PES and to a different extent in FIFA but in PES specifically is what we saw with Schalke players in last years game. Burgstaller was given boosted ratings simply to please Schalke personnel due to the partnership. It made him feel like a poor mans Higuain. Not a bang average striker who happened to have one good season!

In FIFA the problem was created with Ultimate team player boost card incentives. its now, so, very far out of control its actually reached level's where its affected real life football itself. Anthony Martial is a great example of this, thing like these 90-96 rated special youth boost cards really push the delusion on real life players that they have 'made it' and they will just have to turn up to training every week and magically in 2 years they become world class. They have agents who push pressure on EA to boost their players or even with guys like Loftus-Cheek he used to feel nervous when people use him on FIFA due to his low rating.

The younger generation of 5-17 year olds didn't grow up on catienaccio, they didn't grow up on football being a community game. They grew up with the desire to be the next CR7 or Messi and FIFA being the biggest talking point and their young lives playing their family & friends offline and getting the best team possible online on UT with how good your team is being like a fashion statement, much like how Pokemon cards used to be etc... They will be lost in a discussion like this. I don't blame them or have any criticize to expect them, football has long changed from what we knew!

This is what i love about this thread, its so important to discuss these things because we need to understand the truth, it's only people like us who give an objective view on these things anymore. Its people like us who can help if Konami and EA listen or built it ourselves the football game which is best for everyone!
 
They have removed some IMO essential attributes over the years, which has reduced the scope of the individuality.

Shot technique especially - how well the player could shoot from an awkward position. It meant that poachers like Inzaghi were really useful. That whole combination of shot accuracy/power/technique has simply been diluted into finishing and kicking power.

Same with dribbling and passing, you had dribble accuracy and dribble speed... Short/long pass accuracy and speed. Other attributes like teamwork, mentality and response have also gone.
 
The Overall ratings really hurt how stats are allocated to players, if you go through how defenders are rated in this game you will notice there is very little difference in their defending stats.
 
What stats in newer PES 2020 replace old stats in PES 2010 for example agility and teamwork?
 
Before doing any kind of converter, i've think i've fome some limits while searching, even on previous games database, looks like it fits.
Very busy FTM, but it didn't took me too much time (more to wrote this post) and it's more something entertaining to me so it's more entertainement to me.
I wanted to do a stats generator so i've searched a method based on Konami's scale and Rank, as i've know them from another forum member.

So, will set up the stats by points given, it will be easier. First here's the standard stats for low rank player if you don't already knows it, just added for Tight Possession and Agression.
Here's the standard stats from PES 17-18-19 for low rated players http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?t=102528
I've checked also standard for T.P./Agression
-46/47 for GK
-58/66 for CB/LB/RB
-64/64 for DMF/CMF/LMF/RMF/AMF
-60/49 for CF/SS/LWF/RWF

I've made research regarding linked stats, like Speed/Acceleration then but just for pure CB and lower rank.
Lower value in speed/acceleration for a player with this rank is 105 points, higher is 155.

So with that information, i've made 6 scale, because i i've got to introduce the standard value.
I set 10 points difference between the first and second scale, as they're more "versatile" when i've checked the database, are more rare.

Note that the standards "scale" are related to the supposed rank and position.
"Good" for a low rank player could be "Very Slow" for an high ranked)
What's matter, is setting 15

> Very Slow 53/52
> Slow 58/57
> Acceptable 63/62 (Note: standard sets unknown players, with 59 OVR)
> Good 68/67
> Very Good 73/72
> Excellent 78/77

Now, i've found one player for example with like 85 speed, and 70 in acceleration... But never more or less 105/155 points for this rank. 50 points of difference.
There's plenty of way to handle this, at least it's easy for higher and lower rank.
Could be related to height , weight, the way the players use his speed, preferred moves etc. with a + and - system.

Needed to share it, now let's get back to work on my future exports.
 
vialli82 said:
Before doing any kind of converter, i've think i've fome some limits while searching, even on previous games database, looks like it fits.
Very busy FTM, but it didn't took me too much time (more to wrote this post) and it's more something entertaining to me so it's more entertainement to me.
I wanted to do a stats generator so i've searched a method based on Konami's scale and Rank, as i've know them from another forum member.

So, will set up the stats by points given, it will be easier. First here's the standard stats for low rank player if you don't already knows it, just added for Tight Possession and Agression.
Here's the standard stats from PES 17-18-19 for low rated players http://www.pesgaming.com/showthread.php?t=102528
I've checked also standard for T.P./Agression
-46/47 for GK
-58/66 for CB/LB/RB
-64/64 for DMF/CMF/LMF/RMF/AMF
-60/49 for CF/SS/LWF/RWF

I've made research regarding linked stats, like Speed/Acceleration then but just for pure CB and lower rank.
Lower value in speed/acceleration for a player with this rank is 105 points, higher is 155.

So with that information, i've made 6 scale, because i i've got to introduce the standard value.
I set 10 points difference between the first and second scale, as they're more "versatile" when i've checked the database, are more rare.

Note that the standards "scale" are related to the supposed rank and position.
"Good" for a low rank player could be "Very Slow" for an high ranked)
What's matter, is setting 15

> Very Slow 53/52
> Slow 58/57
> Acceptable 63/62 (Note: standard sets unknown players, with 59 OVR)
> Good 68/67
> Very Good 73/72
> Excellent 78/77

Now, i've found one player for example with like 85 speed, and 70 in acceleration... But never more or less 105/155 points for this rank. 50 points of difference.
There's plenty of way to handle this, at least it's easy for higher and lower rank.
Could be related to height , weight, the way the players use his speed, preferred moves etc. with a + and - system.

Needed to share it, now let's get back to work on my future exports.
Click to expand...
news my friend
novita amico ;)
 
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