Brexit

[Placebo]

Plenty of Brits decided he isn't yesterday.

Old and/or racist ones who're too ignorant to know any better yes, sadly my 69 year old Mum was one of those (old and ignorant not racist). Look at the split, if it were left in the hands of those under 50 it'd be remain, those under 50 are the ones now left to pick up the pieces of a broken country.

 

[superleeds1]

Old and/or racist ones who're too ignorant to know any better yes, sadly my 69 year old Mum was one of those (old and ignorant not racist). Look at the split, if it were left in the hands of those under 50 it'd be remain, those under 50 are the ones now left to pick up the pieces of a broken country.

Get over it Placebo,everyone had their chance ,dont single out groups or people for the blame.Especially as You may offend any over 50 moderators who happen to be around here.
That argument has already been used by remain and is profoundly stupid.

 

[superleeds1]

P.S. Not bad for first day.

A Prime Minister resigned. The £ plummeted. The FTSE 100 lost significant ground. But then the £ rallied past February levels, and the FTSE closed on a weekly high: 2.4% up on last Friday, its best performance in 4 months. President Obama decided we wouldn't be at the 'back of the queue' after all and that our 'special relationship' was still strong. The French President confirmed the Le Touquet agreement would stay in place. The President of the European Commission stated Brexit negations would be 'orderly' and stressed the UK would continue to be a 'close partner' of the EU. A big bank denied reports it would shift 2,000 staff overseas. The CBI, vehemently anti-Brexit during the referendum campaign, stated British business was resilient and would adapt. Several countries outside the EU stated they wished to begin bi-lateral trade talks with the UK immediately. If this was the predicted apocalypse, well, it was a very British one. It was all over by teatime. Not a bad first day of freedom.

 

[ThomasGOAL]

Sexy Sue should know better.

Farage not part of vote_leave -the official campaign

Official or no, why speak about that after the vote

 

[Damjan]

Old and/or racist ones who're too ignorant to know any better yes, sadly my 69 year old Mum was one of those (old and ignorant not racist). Look at the split, if it were left in the hands of those under 50 it'd be remain, those under 50 are the ones now left to pick up the pieces of a broken country.

I see this mentioned everywhere, but nobody seems to mention the 30% of people aged 18-25 who voted leave. This is not an insignificant amount, as it shows it wasn't as lopsided amongst younger people.

I also see a massive amount of disrespect coming from the left towards the working class, who they are supposed to represent. Everywhere it is being implied that dumb people without a degree voted leave. I do not see how a degree on it's own somehow makes anyone more eligible to vote or knowledgable on the subject. It reeks of arrogance, like the most of the remain-camp was with Cameron being so confident he put his position on the line and lost.

People are massively overreacting, acting as if the U.K. has built a dome around the country and is becoming as isolated as North-Korea. The truth is, the everyday person from a European country will continue to trade regardless of whether people think Nigel Farage is a xenophobe or a racist. You'd have to be mad to think the U.K. won't build up trade agreements again. The whole panic regarding the Pound seems to have steadied as well, as was predicted. There isn't a country that will embargo the U.K. simply because it makes no sense.

 

[gomito#10]

I'm not seeing the short term success that Leeds is referring too. The pound is at its lowest point since 1985. Your cost of doing business with the $$$ is going to be sky high.


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[Damjan]

This is a graphic showing the pound this month. The depression being after the announcement and the peak is today:

 

[Lami]

Should buy a few games from UK before the pound goes up again

 

[Jamezinho]

I see this mentioned everywhere, but nobody seems to mention the 30% of people aged 18-25 who voted leave. This is not an insignificant amount, as it shows it wasn't as lopsided amongst younger people.

I also see a massive amount of disrespect coming from the left towards the working class, who they are supposed to represent. Everywhere it is being implied that dumb people without a degree voted leave. I do not see how a degree on it's own somehow makes anyone more eligible to vote or knowledgable on the subject. It reeks of arrogance, like the most of the remain-camp was with Cameron being so confident he put his position on the line and lost.

People are massively overreacting, acting as if the U.K. has built a dome around the country and is becoming as isolated as North-Korea. The truth is, the everyday person from a European country will continue to trade regardless of whether people think Nigel Farage is a xenophobe or a racist. You'd have to be mad to think the U.K. won't build up trade agreements again. The whole panic regarding the Pound seems to have steadied as well, as was predicted. There isn't a country that will embargo the U.K. simply because it makes no sense.

Spot on.

Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk

 

[Placebo]

Especially as You may offend any over 50 moderators who happen to be around here.

What has that got to do with anything as it pertains to this discussion? I guess you're implying you're over 50? I couldn't give a shit if I've offended you, you're welcome to use your personal feelings to abuse your position if it makes you happy

I also see a massive amount of disrespect coming from the left towards the working class

I'm working class, my Dad was working class, my Dad spent about 12 years unemployed thanks to Thatcher's don't give a fuck about the North Tory Britain, I'm the kind of person the Brexit rhetoric has been aimed at, well I would have been if I hadn't used the wonderful freedoms the EU offers to go work in another country without restriction, which led to my dream job, which led to meeting my wife, all because of the freedoms Brexit want to give up for reasons built on lies and ignorance.

 

[PIPA23]

we can talk all we want about brexit....in the end it is all about the money, and british pound..it all starts and ends on this..

it is all about the currency... if the pound is going down, people from abroad who work in UK and are a VALID member of the community and add to economy will think of leaving - as well as people from UK will think twice if they did good by choosing to leave EU....

i fully expect Scotland to have another referendum and let´s wait how the english will cope with the poeple who work there difficult jobs who the english don´t want to take, going to other EU countries...

but i expect the company´s having trouble to find work force with pound being down for example...

i can´t see anything positive in terms of economy from this vote... this might as well been a referendum about closing borders etc...because people voted mostly out of fear of mass imigration..

but you can´t put in one basket an emigrant from outside EU who is uneducated, without language and skills and illegal... with an immigrant who is well prepeared to work and add to UK´s economy by paying taxes and buying etc.. living in england...

EU must react quick and England or UK should not get the advantages they had from being EU member...why? because if EU gives UK advantages, other countries will follow in having a referendum...i see major changes happening and still i don´t see a positive outcome for England, if Scotland goes separate way + if the pound will go down...

 

[GroveStreet]

I also wanted to start a Brexit thread. Good idea, Pipa!
I would like to know how British evo-webbers have voted and why.

Personally i'm very disappointed that the British people voted for the Brexit, although i can understand them.
This European Union has become an undemocratic moloch, that is far too bureacratic. People in Ivory towers in Brussels make decions that influence all the people all over Europe and the EU only seems an economic Unoin and not a social.
On top of that, Brittain was Always 'different' (that is one of the things that attract me to Brittain, when i write 'different', i see it as something positive). Still, when i hear somebody like Nigel Farage, i become somewhat afraid.

I'm gonna write something very controversial.

IMO the biggest mistake the EU made was to open up for the Easter European countries after the fall of the Iron curtain in 1989. I think the western countries did that to prevent people from eastern Europe migrating to the West. In practice, this hasn't worked.

Perhaps they should have waited longer befor opening up to those countries. I might be wrong but i have a feeling that those countries and their citizens don't have the democratic traditions 'we' have. This makes it very difficult to discuss on the same level (it seems as if i think that 'we' are on a higher level than 'they' are, that is not true at all). I also think the cultural differences are too big.

When i hear people like Orban or the Polish twins that once ruled there...their discourse is so different from what we hear from our politicians (and lest's be honest, our leaders are not necessarily better, far from that).

I hope this isn't seen as being racist, it isn't meant to be like that in the least, but something in the Eu isn't functioning. This is caused by a democratic deficit but also because the cultural differences seem too big to me. But perhaps there is no alternative.

I hope people like Pipa and other people from countries like Hungary, Poland, Serbia, Craotia and others don't feel offended. What i wrote wasn't meant to be offensive and i don't feel superior at all...just very different...

What an arrogant and ignorant human are you?

Are those who were vandalizing Paris and other French cities come from eastern Europe? Are the guy who cut the throat of one of English soldiers was from eastern Europe? Or the psychopath from Norway who killed 77 people was from eastern Europe or was raised all his life in one of these super democratic countries? Is something similar happening in any of eastern European countries with those dumb, barbaric and anti democratic people that are living there? If by huge cultural differences you mean that we are not killing one another just because we can, then you are right!

Believe me - we don't need your super democracy or shiny liberalism all we need is the money that you are giving to us and if you think that it's wrong, then maybe think about it twice - if you wouldn't made a deal with one devil in WW2 to get rid of another to get a freedom ONLY to yourself and leave all of eastern Europe to live by YOUR liberators five year plans that each time were overachieved by quite a margin, but there was nothing to buy in the shops, then we wouldn't need now nor your super cool democracy, nor your shiny liberalism or even your dirty money!

And about Brits - of course, why we should pay our money to EU that are giving it to morons in eastern Europe, because only thing that we did is left them suffer almost 50 years to let us be free and built our economy to were it is now or why we should be giving money to solve immigration problem, because only thing that we did was we were plundering and sucking out resources from all those territories for centuries and now we are calling them third world countries while, in the same time, we are proudly calling ourselves the fifth biggest economy in the world, so let's instead make Britain great again - let's go killing and plundering half of the world again just like few centuries ago, but this time we won't call it Crusades or colonization but this time we will bring our cool and shiny democratic and liberalism ideas to the world just like Americans are doing it for a while now, because all those dumb people around the world really don't know what is best for them without the wisdom of Great Britain and USA!

 

[PIPA23]

gerd sorry i did not react to your post.. i don´t know if you ever worked with people from my region, or eastern europe... i don´t even count Czechs, Slovakia, Poland and Hugary as eastern europe but more a mid europe countries... i count Ukraine, Bulgaria, Romania and medditeranean as east - south europe... but that is not the point.

most of , if not all people who go to work to EU west countries are humble , well educated people who go there either to study or make money to have a better life and paying taxes, supporting familys back home in their countries, still affected by post communism...but also they are helping the econommy by WORKING... you can find assholes also among english etc.. who are lazy and don´t work...

the democracy is the same here as in the rest of europe, the rich are the same, the poor are the same...we have the exact same problems...exact same goals and ideals.. only thing different is our way of life - perhaps we don´t wast money on holidays or enjoying life right now in this moment but save money for later...or for buying our own house etc... this is the reality i know and i worked with people from all europe and outside eu as well... so i know what i talk about..

i don´t know what people from West europe think about east europe, but i would NEVER go work and live to West if here in my own country there was no corruption and more work opportunity...so perhaps you are right, but there is corruption everywhere...and Europe has exact same problems...it is just that the center of europe is in west - Germany...and center of work is and now maybe was in England...that is the point of global market and EU, that anyone if able can work anywhere in Europe for same currency...what is there not to like about it...?

most people who drive Englands economy and work very hard are decent, humble and non-conflict people... and you can find assholes everywhere in any country... in any place...

i wonder what English will do if Scotland leaves them now, which looks likely...from top of my head all the oil industry in north sea is in Scotland... will be interesting...

trust me the only reason people are working that much in england and scotland or germany are the money.. majority of people i know that work in england from my country would not stay there if the pound goes down now... they don´t need english lifestyle...we hava a paradise country here in Slovakia, trust me... only thing that we miss are the jobs and decent sallary, our people and life here is something i would love you to see with own eyes... people are desperate thoug.. some people.. who work to hard to get what they could for less work in west... so that is all about it.. + we have zero shootings, zero terrorism, no immigration, no problems... the bigest problem we face is the stupidity of people..people are stupid because our school system is failing, same as rest of europe... the kids are dumm and they lack critical thinking...therefore radicals same as in UK btw, are getting to parliament.... so the people in my experience are same everywhere... exactly the same. either they are stupid or they think...either they fear and close themselves in immaginary security, or they think and try to find solution to the problem that is certainly not over...

 

[gerd]

I might be ignorant, but my post wasn't meant to be arrogant.
I don't think 'we' are better than Eastern European people, not at all.
I may be ignorant, but i wasn't born when Roosevelt and Churchill made deals with Stalin. It was Churchill who wanted to help the Soviet regime (convoys to Murmansk for example), and if he hadn't done this we all might have been German today, you and me...but perhaps none of us would have lived...i doubt being German and living under a national socialist regime would have been better for the people in the East.

After the war the West made bad deals with Stalin. I'm well aware of that, but wasn't even born at the time...so don't blame me.

And if youn eed our money, well then you just have to accept our emphasis on democracy too...i know that historically the west have supported lots of regimes who are not democratic, but this was never supported by the majority of the people here.

Pipa, i have nothing against foreign people who come to Belgium be it to work or as refugee. This is not about xenophobia or about feeling better. Not at all.

IMO the EU just got too big to function decently. Laws that have a huge influence on all the people in Europe are decided by people who aren't elected by all the people that are subjected to those laws and they are written by anonymous civil servants (and by the way, i'm a civil servant too) in Ivory towers in Brussels. Laws that influence people from Bucarest to Helsinki, from Sweden to Malta...

And in the end if the differences between the member states are too big and there are too many states, one has to compromise too much and then there is no real policy, only a half baked...


I gladly believe what you are saying about Slovakia and believe me, there is corruption in Belgium too.

 

[GroveStreet]

And if youn eed our money, well then you just have to accept our emphasis on democracy too...i know that historically the west have supported lots of regimes who are not democratic, but this was never supported by the majority of the people here.

You are ignorant by thinking that your democracy is more pure than any of those that are here in eastern Europe!

You didn't answer what are those huge cultural differences between western and eastern Europe that set as so apart, that it was a mistake as to join EU?

Isn't it a bigger mistake that are making most western European countries by giving out their citizenship to every person left and right, sometimes even blatantly selling it? Don't you think that there is a bigger difference between you and people who are living in hundred of different city ghettos all around France, Germany and other western European countries, who don't give shit about democracy, rights for women and who think that if the time is right, then they can burn down other people property or do other stupid things just because they have nothing better to do, but in the same time have lived in that democratic umbrella for at least two generations? Do you really think that there is a bigger cultural difference between eastern Europeans and this proportion of core population of western Europe in at least second generation?

Open your eyes! It's not like eastern Europeans is that evil and those undemocratic barbarians that will come to you and cut your trout for basically no reason at all; the reality is that it will be your neighbor who have lived there for few generations, but STILL don't care about your culture, values or democratic ideals!

Is it eastern Europeans fault that you down there in west even can't properly integrate smaller or bigger part of your own society that they don't kill others for no (silly) reasons every now and then!?!

But as you already admitted that you are ignorant, then, I guess, of course it is a lot easier to blame others then to look at the mirror at yourselfs!

 

[superleeds1]

What has that got to do with anything as it pertains to this discussion? I guess you're implying you're over 50? I couldn't give a shit if I've offended you, you're welcome to use your personal feelings to abuse your position if it makes you happy



I'm working class, my Dad was working class, my Dad spent about 12 years unemployed thanks to Thatcher's don't give a fuck about the North Tory Britain, I'm the kind of person the Brexit rhetoric has been aimed at, well I would have been if I hadn't used the wonderful freedoms the EU offers to go work in another country without restriction, which led to my dream job, which led to meeting my wife, all because of the freedoms Brexit want to give up for reasons built on lies and ignorance.

Simply highlighting that You could offend some groups with what You posted.
Even prostituting Your own Mother for fucks sake.

 

[Damjan]

What has that got to do with anything as it pertains to this discussion? I guess you're implying you're over 50? I couldn't give a shit if I've offended you, you're welcome to use your personal feelings to abuse your position if it makes you happy



I'm working class, my Dad was working class, my Dad spent about 12 years unemployed thanks to Thatcher's don't give a fuck about the North Tory Britain, I'm the kind of person the Brexit rhetoric has been aimed at, well I would have been if I hadn't used the wonderful freedoms the EU offers to go work in another country without restriction, which led to my dream job, which led to meeting my wife, all because of the freedoms Brexit want to give up for reasons built on lies and ignorance.

My point is that people act as if it is now impossible to experience what you experienced, while in truth it likely won't be. I imagine there are plenty of Brits who live in the United States and found their wife/husband and dreamjob there, without having the advantages of an EU passport. Britain is not becoming isolated, I fully expect the EU and the UK to make special agreements allowing Britons to almost have the same amount of personal freedom to roam the EU as before. The basis for it is obviously there and won't just disappear. I imagine only the opposite way will be different (people coming to the UK), and in my opinion that is what Britain needs.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

I have dual citizensship,UK and another (still EU) country. I didn't vote although I had the right to. My heart said out, but I felt as though I didn't have validity to vote out as ultimately I'm insulated a bit from negative consequences.

I think the EU is a failing organisation, it's being pushed in so many different directions, it reminds me a lot of the last days of the Soviet Union. The politburo (EU commission) is trying to unify yet the national governments are going in different directions, for instance we are told (by the EU) that Portugal and Greeces governments are "too left wing" but the Hungarian and Polish governments are "too right wing". These are the democratically elected governments of soverign nations, I don't think the commission can stipulate whom people should elect, it's an affront to democracy, if the people elect a government you don't like you have to accept it. You cannot pick an choose elements of democracy - it's binary.

To be honest, 5 or so years ago I would have probably voted for remain, but the EUs actions in Greece were disgusting. I was there and I saw EU citizens in Athens, the cradle of civilization, forced to rummage through dustbins looking for food. The EU beaurocrats pushed ordinary citizens beyond the brink. Even when Greeks voted to halt austerity they were not allowed. I don't really want to give a mandate to an organisation that does that.

I wish the EU had changed, reformed and become less centralised. I really think it has to now or it will not survive. Some of the commission leaders are corrupt (Juncker was a corporate tax evasion enabler in Luxembourg) or dishonest politicians (Barrosso to Portugal into an illegal war), I don't know if these people are capable of generating reform.

 

[PIPA23]

edit: to the post above mine now, i agree.. EU needs reforms, but now they need to ensure stability and listen to poeple, install safe borders so the EU is safe and only take in migrants from war countries after they are all in evidence... register them in the country they came in and don´t allow free move untill they are legalised citizens.

and to posts above.. i think EU work policy worked perfectly, everyone was free to work everywhere and it is the work ethics that mattered... the bullshit about UK jobs being taken by foreigners, total BS... first of all UK employers rights are the same as everywhere...when i was working in UK i got the same sallary as a guy from UK, same rights etc... our employer employed people from eastern europe or middle europe because he had great experience with their work ethics... we got guys from England and Scotland who were working two weeks and got fed up and left.. while we were wokring our assses off long term.. this is the reality and the employers now will see if it is the case...i just can´t see myself the fact that UK doesn´t need hard working eastern european or any hard working people who want to work...no matter where they are from now...

the cultural differences you talk about... i don´t think so, perhaps 20 or 30 years ago when there was no such contact of people, no internet etc...but now? don´t be kidding yourself gerd... take any 16 year old kid from Uk, Russia, Slovakia, Poland.. eating, drinking, listening, reading, watching the same SHIT on internet,. ... They behave all the same now, world is globalised... to full extent...same with adults...only maybe except those, who remember the times before total globalisation and electronisation (i hope it is the right term) where nobdoy had a phone or internet connection and read books and watched moveis from tape... you get my point.

 

[spaceman]

I don't think the remain camp helped it's cause going down the project fear road, i think it has made a lot of folk angry,,why why why did they not promote the positives of being in the EU for god sake..

I for one voted out for a number or reasons, main reason is i want to be able to vote for someone that can set it's own laws and legislation based on whats best for said country and at the same time if things go pear shaped said Elected leader can be voted out.Another reason linked to immigration and it's not the just the ones that come for the benefits,it's a view i share with others and that's that many Employers have a vast amount of choice when it comes to unskilled jobs, thus keeping wages low. I would like us to use a similar system used in Australia where they only let people live based on a points system,which i assume would mean less unskilled workers and more professionals in.This i would like to think would put the price of labour up and thus increase wages for the working class.

just my view so don't bite..

 

[Tom]

I'll bite by closing this thread. No politics here, we have a strict rule on that which we are not going to bend.

Should have happened sooner, so sorry to those who think they've wasted their time in here now. But it's things like these which require delicate moderation the longer they get. We simply cannot and do not want to provide that.