eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Elanimator

Fool Manual
5 November 2017
When you've seen it numerous times for many years, you know what to expect.
I agree.. and the "feel" of how it plays can't possibly be too far from how it looks.
We might be able to appreciate the subtle improvements more, once we played it. But the obvious issues from the videos like Players/AI reacting in weird ways, can't possibly feel good while you're playing it.
 
Last edited:

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
Yup. My theory is that they are using the new engine (which I think will come with PES 2021) for these images, because the lighting is spot on, the LOD is extremely good and textures are so sharp.

I'm more and more convinced that PES 2021 will come with a new engine by the minute.
Lucky me, @Lons will get me my PC copy via Steam :D
Kinda like with GT. polyphony digital is creating content that needs more power under the hood (GT is PS5 ready). So if it works for GT, it’s a possibility it could happen here, IMO.
And i like that thought! :)
 

grumpypesfan

Non-League
10 July 2019
When you've seen it numerous times for many years, you know what to expect.
exactly this. so many similar issues to the last few years, especially 2019, like robotic animations, sliding/ice skating before shots, clipping, sub-par ai and more.

Yup. My theory is that they are using the new engine (which I think will come with PES 2021) for these images, because the lighting is spot on, the LOD is extremely good and textures are so sharp.

I'm more and more convinced that PES 2021 will come with a new engine by the minute.
Lucky me, @Lons will get me my PC copy via Steam :D
no chance. sure, the new engine (most likely unreal) will probably come with 2021, but no way they're using the new engine for these screenshots or anything else. this is still the fox engine, just touched up a lot with other tools.

also, you give konami too much credit (tongue in cheek comment, no disrespect to you). they don't have the foresight or planning ability to have done any work on the new engine yet. i hope i'm wrong, but if recent history tells us anything it's that an engine change and jump up to new consoles is always a disaster when it comes to pes. 2021 and the move to ps5/scarlett will be make or break for pes.
 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
exactly this. so many similar issues to the last few years, especially 2019, like robotic animations, sliding/ice skating before shots, clipping, sub-par ai and more.



no chance. sure, the new engine (most likely unreal) will probably come with 2021, but no way they're using the new engine for these screenshots or anything else. this is still the fox engine, just touched up a lot with other tools.

also, you give konami too much credit (tongue in cheek comment, no disrespect to you). they don't have the foresight or planning ability to have done any work on the new engine yet. i hope i'm wrong, but if recent history tells us anything it's that an engine change and jump up to new consoles is always a disaster when it comes to pes. 2021 and the move to ps5/scarlett will be make or break for pes.
They broke it when moving to ps4 and PES is still here. ;)
I can think of them working on stuff that can be implemented in the new engine.
Can’t get that GT comparison out of my head.
 

grumpypesfan

Non-League
10 July 2019
They broke it when moving to ps4 and PES is still here. ;)
I can think of them working on stuff that can be implemented in the new engine.
Can’t get that GT comparison out of my head.
it broke when they moved to ps3/xbox 360 with what still was a ps2 coded game. like building a skyscraper on hugely shaky foundations, especially with net/online coding. they've continued to do that too. while on ps4 it's fox engine running things, there's still ps2/ps3 code there and it can be seen.

you're right. pes still here. survived the ps3/xbox 360 era because of fans clinging onto hope and while sales declined they were okay enough to keep things going. its the hardcore and fans clinging onto hope that kept it going. in the ps4/xbox one era it has stayed alive plainly and simply because of myclub (only just too). if it was just down to boxed and digital sales (even though latter is on rise), pes would be dead or free to play game only.

fox engine is a different beast to unreal, so while some code and other minor things can be "moved over" the transition is a much bigger job than you or most people think. it's almost like starting from scratch. the gt comparison doesn't work as the firstly the series creator is much more forward thinking than konami ever will be and with him it's the case of the console is not ready for his engine/game lol. plus, as a first party playstation game, you bet your ass gt will be ready for ps5. they would have been working on it for a while now.

so, yeah, i stick by my opinion. if the transition to ps5/scarlett and new engine goes badly, pes could be in trouble in regards to a series as we know it.
 

elloco

League 1
19 November 2013
@Chuny Look at these quality of stadia. Forget about new engine in 2021. They still will use FOX. I'm 100% sure of that.
look at these outdated animations, look at these poor physics, look at these static keeper animations, look at the time of updates, look at the time of fixing major bugs, look at this poor AI...

with NextGen they had to change something fundamentally !!! I'm 100% sure of that.
 

Lons

AMIGA 1200 HARDCORE FAN!
look at these outdated animations, look at these poor physics, look at these static keeper animations, look at the time of updates, look at the time of fixing major bugs, look at this poor AI...

with NextGen they had to change something fundamentally !!! I'm 100% sure of that.
Agree but look for ball physics for example. Animations are poor but we don't know it's from engine restrictions or poor Konami developers.Don't forget that KONAMI devs has problem to create nice looking menus or realistic banners. Its engine problem? Nah
 

elloco

League 1
19 November 2013
Fox Engine is in house developed... the 2 Mainbrains behind the Foxengine had left Konami!

we dont know how many people actually working on FOXengine, Problem here they just dont have enough know how and manpower with this engine, its not open source so they cant simple hire new FOXengine pros...

what did we know about that Engine ? How safe is it for the future ? raytracing, physics, AI...

there are many questions that UNREALengine can answer...
 

Chuny

GFX MOD
Staff
11 December 2007
Buenos Aires, Argentina
I don't think it's a new engine. I think the images are just rendered on their 3D face/body/stadium scanning program with a very hires textures and amazing lighting.
It's possible that the current engine is capable of that quality in-game but the lighting and very hires textures might make the PS4 or some PCs crawl and need a lot more storage space.

Why are they showing these then, if they are not gonna use those in-game?
I think to let us know how capable and accurate their 3D scanning is.
It's also possible that they're trying to deceive the public, but I'm in a good mood so I'm not going that far.:D

PS4? Who said anything about PS4?
If 2021 comes with a new engine, it will be for the new generation of consoles.

no chance. sure, the new engine (most likely unreal) will probably come with 2021, but no way they're using the new engine for these screenshots or anything else. this is still the fox engine, just touched up a lot with other tools.

also, you give konami too much credit (tongue in cheek comment, no disrespect to you). they don't have the foresight or planning ability to have done any work on the new engine yet. i hope i'm wrong, but if recent history tells us anything it's that an engine change and jump up to new consoles is always a disaster when it comes to pes. 2021 and the move to ps5/scarlett will be make or break for pes.
You know...
Before PES 2018 came out, or somewhere around that, Konami/PES were looking for new staff. I remember it clearly.
They were looking for artists, designers, etc.. And I think it was Kei Masuda who said that a new engine would only come when the nextgen consoles are out and the current gen will still be tied to the FOX ENGINE, that's not gonna change.

So you can see my scepticism.
I don't think every new big move from generation to generation has to be a pain in the ass. It doesn't. We shouldn't be worrying over another PES 2014 debacle. It doesn't have to be like that.
And I don't know how much of a workload it could be for Konami to take what they have now to UE.
Don't forget PES for mobile is already developed with UE so they already have some expertise developing for that engine.
 

Elanimator

Fool Manual
5 November 2017
Hi @Chuny.

That's a response to @VuZet's post: "I don't know why KONAMI showing it if it's not taken from the game."
which I assume he meant the CURRENT(pes2020) "game", and not the Ps5 game.
 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
Online matches in the demo will not be restricted to 5 mins but offline matches almost certainly will.



Has this been confirmed for demo offline matches?
you could see in videos they are setting up the time from 5-10 minutes! they did play offline at these events! so i'm pretty sure it was in.
 

Cro_Cop

League 2
4 October 2018
Best way to see if there is variety in AI gameplay styles, or if it's all the same
Yes, It will be a good chance to see how the AI play and most of all the Player ID of the big players. We've seen a bit of dribbling in past gameplay videos,hope this version is even more improved..dont think they would give us a build with a AI that they're not confident with..
 

Elanimator

Fool Manual
5 November 2017
Agree but look for ball physics for example. Animations are poor but we don't know it's from engine restrictions or poor developers form KONAMI. Don't forget KONAMI devs has problem to create nice looking menus or realistic banners. Its engine problem? Nah
I'm leaning more towards poor developers than engine restriction. They're not competent with other aspects of the game that is not engine related, so there's no reason to believe that they are competent with other aspects of the game that involves the game engine.
-------------

Just a theory on why the issues from years ago are not being fixed.

I think the main issue is how they program the game.
Of course, they have a "base program"(code or whatever you call it) for this game.
They just "tweak or add things" to improve it each year.

What if there are issues that can't be fixed just by "tweaking or adding things", and require re-building/re-writing "base program"?

They have 2 options:
1.) Ignore or not fix the issues, and just try to MASK it with other things that they can "tweak or add" easily.
2.) Re-writing the "base program" which requires a lot of work but will fix the core issues.

It's obvious that they're doing option 1 each year because that's the more practical for them.
Option 2 is great and the only way I think the core issues we have from years ago will get fixed.

A NEW ENGINE will give us hope that they'll do Option 2 because they almost have NO CHOICE but to re-write a new program for that new engine.
 
Last edited:

Paynekiller

League 1
14 June 2015
you could see in videos they are setting up the time from 5-10 minutes! they did play offline at these events! so i'm pretty sure it was in.
Last year at GamesCom they showed 10 minute offline matches against the Ai but the public demo and the lite version were limited to 5 minute offline matches.
 
Last edited:

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
I don't care it they make it a 1 minute match against the AI but for the sake of console people, I hope they make it 10 minutes.
yeah, me too!!
the second demo, releasing sep. 10th, will feature more minutes per match! the final game, released around spring 2020 (via updates) will feature the same as the second demo! ;)
 

amartingil

League 1
20 September 2016
look at these outdated animations, look at these poor physics, look at these static keeper animations, look at the time of updates, look at the time of fixing major bugs, look at this poor AI...

with NextGen they had to change something fundamentally !!! I'm 100% sure of that.
Poor animations? In comparison to? to Fifa? to a CGI?

It's too easy use ragdoll system like fifa does. But you like its weird animations?

It's too easy take all stuff from motion capture and make a CGI, or a animation system like PES 2014, without any differences between players, with a rigid control and freedomless.

I'm leaning more towards poor developers than engine restriction. They're not competent with other aspects of the game that is not engine related, so there's no reason to believe that they are competent with other aspects of the game that involves the game engine.
I'm agree about the engine. About devs, I think the point is Konami hasn't enought resources to do everything we want. And Konami puts huge focus on aesthetics, bzc if the game has a big visual impact, it will generate more sales.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom