eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

Emroth said:
No, the way you see it is black and white.
When you play Pes for long enough - you should know exactly what he meant when he typed these words.
What we have now is not better ball physics. Its an illusion of an outstanding ball physics. Ball always bouncing back to AI when they need a goal, laser, impossible passes from 20 miles away, 9/10 shots being on goal or just by the post.. its all so limited and pre-determined. Even playing on manual there are always same patterns, same scenarios, same goals.
It all looks beautiful until you start to look closer. Its all an illusion.
Yes - I did not play the last Data Pack, but I dont need to. Issues that Pes is having cannot be fixed by "minor changes to improve overall gameplay enjoynment".

Collisions, awareness, referees, defending, shooting, AI - all this has to be build from scratch.
Otherwise its just a frustration fest for me.
Click to expand...
I love you man. You know that.
Let’s agree to disagree here. ;)

That “always bouncing back to Ai” Statement i can’t agree on. What I play, it’s not true. What can I say?! Just after the latest patch it’s even more obvious that’s not true. At least not all the time. Have you played it?!

I do see things in between. Maybe my lack of words make it sound like I don’t acknowledge that stuff. But I do.
Does it need a video with commentary that people realize I’m not shy of speaking out loud what’s wrong?! I don’t think so.
I’ve been vocal on bad and good of the game. tell me if (and what) i could do better. I’m listening. I’m not perfect.

So, all the ball physics before were an illusion; there were true physics?! Come on man...!! We have the best illusion of ball physics right now, imo!!

And you know how much I played that game. A LOT!!
Doesn’t make me any better when I put out my impressions!! Can only repeat: I’m not blind but I know my PES. Might sound cocky... but that’s the last thing I want to come across!!

Edit: and yes, we need to start from scratch!! That’s my opinion as well. They tinkered with the tools given long enough...
throw away that stone and chisel!! :D it’s 2020 lads!! :)
 
Last edited:
aderow said:
....That's a perfectly acceptable comment. But the whole they are lazy and stupid etc etc is what I find unnecessary. The criticisms about their focus on what is most profitable I understand, but at the same time it is literally how capitalism works. Don't get me wrong I still believe that putting out a polished superior product will generate enough revenue to make everyone happy but, objectively speaking, I'm not going to fault them for doing what works. Not that I am always objective though lol.

I wish we lived in a world where offline experiences were still prioritized but the truth is, we may have to accept the fact that that may never ever be the case again. I wish that ML and BAL were fully fleshed out. But I understand that yearly cycles means priorities and that online gacha type game modes are what are most popular as well as most profitable and that isn't going to change any time soon.

And that freaking sucks. Because as much as I enjoy playing with friends and strangers, what I enjoy most is experiencing my own little sporting world. Seeing it evolve and seeing my own character evolve within it. That's why I love BAL and modes like it. Because I'm just one player in this universe; it isn't my universe, I just happen to belong to it.

So yeah. PES isn't the only game that has talked about improving it's offline modes. I'll believe it when I see it.
Click to expand...


I'm sorry mate - the comments/criticism ARE necessary.

I've played PES 2020 exhibition mode and I found it enjoyable. Even better would be a workable ML. Following this latest update I have played 4 games of ML with Napoli - and I'm willing to play on - for now.

But instead of delivering a FUN game which you can enjoy out the box and brings happiness they, instead, deliver a FRUSTRATING game experience (unless you're willing to put some serious time/money/effort in modifying the game) EVERY YEAR.

Things like the limited save/replay/game plan slots have been a problem since 2015 - this alone gives a sense of the game being locked in chains. If they locked the slots, then why shouldn't I think that the on-pitch saves/goals/results are also locked somehow too.

Perhaps in future they will monetize extra save slots like MGS survive.

Unless you stay critical and call out this crap - only then can you hope that someone in authority is reading and may think "hey we are unethical towards our paying loyal player base - there's no reason to limit their save slots - we need to change things up"

Stay silent and you'll end up paying £10 for an extra save slot.
 
@aderow we all have our go to games,mine are 17+18.
And I know I have to go cold turkey from them and get this working ,or go back and play those!
Right now one or two games probably do justice to this game,but I can hardly go past just that amount.

One other issue (for me) is that I think football games,no matter which they are,have the poorest representation of it's sport,Vs hockey+basketball (the games I play)
There's really so much of its core missing.
The toughness of the game (Pes 17 has it) penalties+freekicks+stupid and dangerous tackles from the CPU (you know the classic frustration freekick)

Pes weather
We have fine+overcast and rain+rain.
How about just overcast+foggy+hazy.
That's also a mood killer(for me)

I could easily just forget this game and move on to FIFA,but that game has stuff that kills it for me as well.
So I better start liking what's there,go back to older titles or play The Division/NHL/whatever

Ps no comparison on my part between the two games,just that they're not my cup atm
 
Alx1234 said:
I'm sorry mate - the comments/criticism ARE necessary
Click to expand...

You misunderstood what I said. Criticism is fine. Insults aren't.

For instance, you said that offline mode was lacking and they needed to put more effort towards it. Which I agreed with.

Did you throw around insults in the process? You didn't.

That's all I'm saying.

At no point did I say criticism wasn't allowed. In fact it's necessary. But they can be done without flat out insults.
 
@rockstrongo yeah keep playing 2020 and you'll be fine eventually.

I agree MLB the show does a very good job in regards to presentation. And PES is lacking in that regard. Can't comment on NHL cuz I've not played that since 14

Can confirm. PES 2017 AI likes to murder me from time to time lol
 
Having given pes a second chance last night and put fifa to one side for a bit...

Genuinely surprised by how much looser and unpredictable the ball physics and collisions and rochichets are.

Ok it's not fifa and still feels like physics are animated rather than calculated but the illusion is that much more effective now.

Shooting is wilder too and seeing new types of low shots from myself and AI. Obviously there before, now more likely to happen.

Players feel a bit looser and freer too.
Right stick dribbling which I'm not a fan of is better, sharper with the range of outcomes now wider, it seems...controlling sterling running at defences feels so much better than before. Even felt a little fifa dare I say...

And they've adding a little more grain to pitches. Fifa has it, little horizontal ridges in the grass which stood out to me because pes didnt have them before.

What I'd give for a genuine semi-manual passing setting to add risk and jeopardy to each pass (manual always feel too taxing mentally for a couple hours gaming a week...)

And attacking AI from cpu has had a bump. They sweep forward quite impressively at times, overloading on one side before switching across the pitch.
They work themselves out of a press quite well and better players such as deulofeu and Felipe Anderson actually ran at my defence. So too martial and rashford.

This is all top player exhibition btw. Abandoned my ML because of all the script handicapping dull teanmate AI etc...
 
Last edited:
PRO_TOO said:
I love you man. You know that.
Let’s agree to disagree here. ;)

That “always bouncing back to Ai” Statement i can’t agree on. What I play, it’s not true. What can I say?! Just after the latest patch it’s even more obvious that’s not true. At least not all the time. Have you played it?!

I do see things in between. Maybe my lack of words make it sound like I don’t acknowledge that stuff. But I do.
Does it need a video with commentary that people realize I’m not shy of speaking out loud what’s worng?! I don’t think so.
I’ve been vocal on bad and good of the game. tell me if (and what) i could do better. I’m listening. I’m not perfect.

So, all the ball physics before were an illusion; there were true physics?! Come on man...!! We have the best illusion of ball physics right now, imo!!

And you know how much I played that game. A LOT!!
Doesn’t make me any better when I put out my impressions!! Can only repeat: I’m not blind but I know my PES. Might sound cocky... but that’s the last thing I want to come across!!
Click to expand...
I believe that @Emroth means it in a different way, i have something similar in mind. After 20+ games on DP4.0 ML and after i felt changes, i re-realised that the biggest plus of gameplay is in the same time its weakness.
The physicality or illusion or slowpace or however you want to name it, is created by a force that traps you in rigidness, unresponsiveness and often locks you in predetermined long events.
When this is abused by the CPU to create suspense it produces ugly repetitive events , like the ball bouncing with magnus effect to a player. This i think is what EmEs means when he says always bouncing back.
I can give you examples. Despite it is obvious that ball speed times and response times were tuned in this DP, it is more a tailoring than an improvement.
Example: You shot the ball in front of a defender, in higher difficulties the ball most times bounces on the defender, ricochets to the next defender's back and the goalkeeper comes out and catches it. The problem is no matter the power you use to shoot, the sequence seems the same, your player is locked in the shooting animation before and after the shoot, it is hard to steal the ball even after the second bounce, the GK always runs to the right spot, as he knows where the ball will land from the second bounce, but before it has happened. Even if this doesn't happen the first CB steals the ball and clears, while IRL if a ball hits your upper body with such power, i don't think that you willbe able the next milliseconds to play a pinpoint lofted 40m pass to your FW. Add to this the heavy advertised animation that ball hits player in the nuts and he struggles from pain, which seems to be out of the game recently, i don't remember the last time i saw it, it must be one or two updates ago.
 
As for the dribbling and movement with only L-stick, i was the first and only for many months that posted here that 17 and 18 real touch and real touch+, were so innovative and to the right direction, while 2019 and 2020 core movement is very rigid, wooden and square-logic. Whatever direction you choose is always wrong or you get chopped down without a foul call and only one direction is the correct path where your player activates a dribble animation similar to Pele against the Sweden GK or he gets in front of the defender and shields with hand like Messi. But these seem also locked animations, there is little you can do as long as they are activated.
The problem was that the first time i posted it during the lovely PES 19 demo that everyone fell in love, i was sounding like a weirdo.
It seems good that after one year or after one and half year, there are other people who find the core movement dull and heavy restricted to 4 directions.
 
Last edited:
rockstrongo said:
@aderow we all have our go to games,mine are 17+18.
And I know I have to go cold turkey from them and get this working ,or go back and play those!
Right now one or two games probably do justice to this game,but I can hardly go past just that amount.

One other issue (for me) is that I think football games,no matter which they are,have the poorest representation of it's sport,Vs hockey+basketball (the games I play)
There's really so much of its core missing.
The toughness of the game (Pes 17 has it) penalties+freekicks+stupid and dangerous tackles from the CPU (you know the classic frustration freekick)

Pes weather
We have fine+overcast and rain+rain.
How about just overcast+foggy+hazy.
That's also a mood killer(for me)

I could easily just forget this game and move on to FIFA,but that game has stuff that kills it for me as well.
So I better start liking what's there,go back to older titles or play The Division/NHL/whatever

Ps no comparison on my part between the two games,just that they're not my cup atm
Click to expand...
I would like to know what NHL and NBA fans have to say when they look across the fence.
Maybe @Matt10 can give his impressions on that as he’s on OS forums. Maybe some other users can provide here as well.
 
FShas said:
Having given pes a second chance last night and put fifa to one side for a bit...

Genuinely surprised by how much looser and unpredictable the ball physics and collisions and rochichets are.

Ok it's not fifa and still feels like physics are animated rather than calculated but the illusion is that much more effective now.

Shooting is wilder too and seeing new types of low shots from myself and AI. Obviously there before, now more likely to happen.

Players feel a bit looser and freer too.
Right stick dribbling which I'm not a fan of is better, sharper with the range of outcomes now wider, it seems...controlling sterling running at defences feels so much better than before. Even felt a little fifa dare I say...

And they've adding a little more grain to pitches. Fifa has it, little horizontal ridges in the grass which stood out to me because pes didnt have them before.

What I'd give for a genuine semi-manual passing setting to add risk and jeopardy to each pass (manual always feel too taxing mentally for a couple hours gaming a week...)

And attacking AI from cpu has had a bump. They sweep forward quite impressively at times, overloading on one side before switching across the pitch.
They work themselves out of a press quite well and better players such as deulofeu and Felipe Anderson actually ran at my defence. So too martial and rashford.

This is all top player exhibition btw. Abandoned my ML because of all the script handicapping dull teanmate AI etc...
Click to expand...
Good description! 👍
slamsoze said:
I believe that @Emroth means it in a different way, i have something similar in mind. After 20+ games on DP4.0 ML and after i felt changes, i re-realised that the biggest plus of gameplay is in the same time its weakness.
The physicality or illusion or slowpace or however you want to name it, is created by a force that traps you in rigidness, unresponsiveness and often locks you in predetermined long events.
When this is abused by the CPU to create suspense it produces ugly repetitive events , like the ball bouncing with magnus effect to a player. This i think is what EmEs means when he says always bouncing back.
I can give you examples. Despite it is obvious that ball speed times and response times were tuned in this DP, it is more a tailoring than an improvement.
Example: You shot the ball in front of a defender, in higher difficulties the ball most times bounces on the defender, ricochets to the next defender's back and the goalkeeper comes out and catches it. The problem is no matter the power you use to shoot, the sequence seems the same, your player is locked in the shooting animation before and after the shoot, it is hard to steal the ball even after the second bounce, the GK always runs to the right spot, as he knows where the ball will land from the second bounce, but before it has happened. Even if this doesn't happen the first CB steals the ball and clears, while IRL if a ball hits your upper body with such power, i don't think that you willbe able the next milliseconds to play a pinpoint lofted 40m pass to your FW. Add to this the heavy advertised animation that ball hits player in the nuts and he struggles from pain, which seems to be out of the game recently, i don't remember the last time i saw it, it must be one or two updates ago.
Click to expand...
Alright. :TU:
I see this bs as well!
Different difficulty levels seem to be giving different impressions then.

slamsoze said:
As for the dribbling and movement with only L-stick, i was the first and only for many months that posted here that 17 and 18 real touch and real touch+, were so innovative and to the right direction, while 2019 and 2020 core movement is very rigid, wooden and square-logic. Whatever direction you choose is always wrong or you get chopped down without a foul call and only one direction is the correct path where your player activates a dribble animation similar to Pele against the Sweden GK or he gets in front of the defender and shields with hand like Messi. But these seem also locked animations, there is little you can do as long as they are activated.
The problem was that the first time i posted it during the lovely PES 19 demo that everyone fell in love, i was sounding like a weirdo.
It seems good that after one year or after one and half year, there are other people who find the core movement dull and heavy restricted to 4 directions.
Click to expand...
I have that feeling as well. That one super animation works sometimes....
As I value your insights of the game higher than mine, I’d give that thought another spin in my head, while I’m shooting at defenders to see where the ball is going and what the keeper is doing!
:) Really will do!!

Guys, that ongoing conversation (on that mature level) is the best PES can get!! It’s healthy (to the community too), imo!
Lets don’t be a fool thinking we’d change the game by talking. I wish we had an impact... maybe we need to be more vocal in other ways (as one user here suggested)!
 
After the last patch I was getting a bit bored of pes,ist games end to end and same feeling each game, this new one and I'm back in love with it. AI on suoerstar is great, can be ruthless, trying all kinds of shots but also prone to mistakes and Miss judging passes, headers etc. Playing a new league with klashman tactics which I like with the new patch. Still only way to play for me is full manual other modes are a bit too rigid for my liking
 
PRO_TOO said:
Good description! 👍

Alright. :TU:
I see this bs as well!
Different difficulty levels seem to be giving different impressions then.


I have that feeling as well. That one super animation works sometimes....
As I value your insights of the game higher than mine, I’d give that thought another spin in my head, while I’m shooting at defenders to see where the ball is going and what the keeper is doing!
:) Really will do!!

Guys, that ongoing conversation (on that mature level) is the best PES can get!! It’s healthy (to the community too), imo!
Lets don’t be a fool thinking we’d change the game by talking. I wish we had an impact... maybe we need to be more vocal in other ways (as one user here suggested)!
Click to expand...
Come one dude. every opinion has it is own value. Evaluate me equal or less, not higher!! i'll become shy! :P :P :P
If you got for tests, try to detach your player from the animation when you are been tackled in the flank and your player rolls like a barrel, while the CPU defender magnetically takes the ball, that under real-life circumstances should be deflected for a throw in.
 
Flipper the Priest said:
Been waiting for the January transfer update to start another ML with the Dons. Will load the under 20s players out on loan in real life back into the squad (I like how PES retains them in their database whereas FIFA removes them) and that should be my last fling for the season.

Crazy how the update passed without any announcement on the official social media channels. They really have just given up.
Click to expand...
Good shout about the loans and i noticed gleeson is still in the squad so great delight in punting him out of the club again
 
slamsoze said:
As for the dribbling and movement with only L-stick, i was the first and only for many months that posted here that 17 and 18 real touch and real touch+, were so innovative and to the right direction, while 2019 and 2020 core movement is very rigid, wooden and square-logic. Whatever direction you choose is always wrong or you get chopped down without a foul call and only one direction is the correct path where your player activates a dribble animation similar to Pele against the Sweden GK or he gets in front of the defender and shields with hand like Messi. But these seem also locked animations, there is little you can do as long as they are activated.
The problem was that the first time i posted it during the lovely PES 19 demo that everyone fell in love, i was sounding like a weirdo.
It seems good that after one year or after one and half year, there are other people who find the core movement dull and heavy restricted to 4 directions.
Click to expand...

Funny. After playing last night, I came here to say that, if I just had greater freedom of movement, I'd absolutely love this game.

Instead I continue to feel like I'm fighting the controller when I try to dribble.

PRO_TOO said:
I would like to know what NHL and NBA fans have to say when they look across the fence.
Maybe @Matt10 can give his impressions on that as he’s on OS forums. Maybe some other users can provide here as well.
Click to expand...

NBA 2k does a really good job with their presentation. NBA and MLB are probably the 2 games with presentations that mirror their real life counterparts the closest. Madden has improved in this regard.

I'd say 2k and mlb are superior to PES in regards to presentation.

hitmanuk said:
Playing a new league with klashman tactics which I like with the new patch.
Click to expand...

I actually just noticed klashman tactics yesterday.

But given my OF on PS4, I'd have to put them in manually. It would also mean restarting my save. So I decided against it.
 
aderow said:
Funny. After playing last night, I came here to say that, if I just had greater freedom of movement, I'd absolutely love this game.

Instead I continue to feel like I'm fighting the controller when I try to dribble.



NBA 2k does a really good job with their presentation. NBA and MLB are probably the 2 games with presentations that mirror their real life counterparts the closest. Madden has improved in this regard.

I'd say 2k and mlb are superior to PES in regards to presentation.



I actually just noticed klashman tactics yesterday.

But given my OF on PS4, I'd have to put them in manually. It would also mean restarting my save. So I decided against it.
Click to expand...
I am confused now. Is the question about presentation or representation aka simulation?

If it is about presentation i can also confirm what you say to @PRO_TOO , the presentation of NBA in 2K games is top-notch . Pre-game show, banners adds, post game stats... Everything is amazing. It has even real advertisements. It is really on a completely other level. Out of any comparison between the two footy games... The NBA 2K in terms of presentation and atmosphere is much superior.

2 amazing features of 2K series that amazed me:

1) In NBA2k11 i created some fictional players based on some manga characters. For those i gave easy to recognise names, like Johny SILVER, the commentator somehow recognised the typing and was calling his name properly!!!! Imagine something like this happening in PES.

2) In a game i played recently, i had a custom roster add with Iverson and Kobe Bryant. Shaq Oneil in the pre-game said something with the other guys in the table, some interactive dialogue and used a reference for a top season of Iverson in Comparison to a season of Kobe. It really surprised me, how did it happen, either the dialogues are generated by some kind of commentary AI or they are all pre-scripted. Can you imagine that the voice actor of Oneil (if he has one , or is himself) recorded lines for all the current NBA stars separately and then he recorded lines for all the classics, with special quotes for some ocassions!!???
While in the same time in PES half of the classic players dont even have a commentary callname or the match commentator cannot recognise which team conceded an own goal, or if the match goes to extra time etc,etc...

That's for NBA, for baseball, hockey i do not have any experience...
 
When it comes to presentation,2k takes down any sports game with ease.
Gameplay and attention to details and most of all depth in their myleague and Mygm manager modes,makes Pes and FIFA look like your local public acces show Vs a slick produced HBO show.
Pes isn't even in the same ball park (pun intended).
Back in the day we use to have a solid gameplay at least.
We still have a pretty decent gameplay with Pes,if you use pen and paper and make a mock league using exhibition games as a base,or play a very stripped down mode like league mode.

Master League?
Does anyone really enjoy that fully nowadays?
Shitty TS makes your team play extremely weird(or the CPU has the upper hand) for 2/3 of a season.

If I want to take over a team ,no matter how good or bad they are,you start off with a horrible to a bad TS ruining a lot of the joy playing your first season.

That system is so poor,throw in a shallow manager side of the game and top it off with poor performing players (or souped up CPU) and there you have our current Pes.
Try to enjoy that if you can.

Yes the ball physics,player movement,weight of the game is really good,but does that really make up for the rest?
IMO nope!
Like having a three legged table,doesn't matter how good it looks,as long as functionality isn't really working,then what's the point?

Good to see people still enjoy playing it,but hyping this up to a really solid and great game,that's stretching it a bit.
My views on this game (started off with the 2k thing and ...)
 
aderow said:
I interpreted as presentation and yeah it's great the length they've gone to replicate what a real life broadcast looks like.
Click to expand...
Ok got it. Yes they are tottaly in an other level. If you add to this that on PES games after 25 years, we still can't have a single commentary line with more than one player name being called, like "Messi passes to Suarez", you understand that we will never have such levels of presentation.
 
slamsoze said:
Ok got it. Yes they are tottaly in an other level. If you add to this that on PES games after 25 years, we still can't have a single commentary line with more than one player name being called, like "Messi passes to Suarez", you understand that we will never have such levels of presentation.
Click to expand...
Or have a stats screen pop up mid gameplay that Messi is now the best scorer in La liga history after his last goal,and having the commentators bringing that up,with a back story on his very first season/game with Barcelona.
That's the level I'm talking about.
Or having individual all time stats when you click on random player on your team roster!
 
@slamsoze yeah those games do a great job with the details like commentary, presentation, etc. But they are very focused on just one league year after year, so I guess it's easier to do that, building on previous years. But even in NHL 20, the other leagues are rather neglected - there are no details like that for, say, SHL or DHL. It's still the same North American commentary crew and they even butcher the names of teams by making them plural when they shouldn't be, etc. (and they didn't even implement promotion/relegation for SHL/Allsvenskan!) and Football games have to cover much more ground. But still, PES commentary should step it up. In all languages. Presentation I won't even mention...


Does anyone know if there will be more ratings changes or that's it? I notice they changed a couple of famous players, but I was expecting teams like Parma and especially Verona to get a big improvement, but that's not the case. Or like in English league Everton still has 4.5(!) stars :BORED:, while Sheffield only has three... nothing was changed there I suppose. Is anyone else bothered by this?
 
rockstrongo said:
Or have a stats screen pop up mid gameplay that Messi is now the best scorer in La liga history after his last goal,and having the commentators bringing that up,with a back story on his very first season/game with Barcelona.
That's the level I'm talking about.
Or having individual all time stats when you click on random player on your team roster!
Click to expand...

After 5 times that would sound boring.
PRO_TOO said:
:BY:
Nice summary. Enjoy the game guys! ;)
Click to expand...

You know when this guy says dribbling is easy that means for him only and people on the skill level as he is. In general for the casual players dribbling is still useless, the cpu is a tackling machine and dribbling speed is too slow still even with the skilled players. Im starting to think maybe Konami slowed the the animation speed and even the cpu realizes that how inneffective is dribbling and thats why the cpu doesnt use it anymore as passing is more effective way to attack.
 
I've played about 15 games on my ML now, post-patch (Aberdeen, Superstar, default controls). Having started three MLs since release I reckon that's the point you can judge it fairly, which I assume is because of Team Spirit.

Now that my players aren't letting the ball roll past them, or running like they're holding in a shit when tracking back, I'd say it's business as usual. Having not played in six weeks or so I don't really notice much of a difference in the gameplay.

Opposition defences still sit deep, AI still loves the long ball, goals from further than 15 yards out still like gold dust, player switching still inexplicably poor - compared even to the PS2 PESes I've been playing lately).

All that said I like it for what it is. It's challenging and I don't give as much credence to scripting as others, so I can still get satisfaction from what I perceive to be largely as winning and losing on merit. I know that won't sit well with many readers but experience and opinion innit?

The repetition and attrition may wear me down but for now I'm happy enough. About to dabble in some FIFA for the first time in ages too. I might report my findings in the FIFA thread and you can check it out. Or not, cos why would anyone care what I think?
 
rockstrongo said:
You really think that would/should appear 5 times or more?
It would appear once of course.
Stats screens for other milestones would of course appear when they happen.
And league leaders in scoring/assists, previous meetings etc
Now we have a UI from 1985 Soviet.
Click to expand...

It would, FIFA has this too, it nice to hear it a few times but yeah it gets boring.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom