eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

[Alx1234]

I’ve got PES on Xbox One - can I play with a mate on PS4?

Good thought. A bit too much fun / freedom for konami to let us have though.

PES is still one of KONAMI most profitable IP. They have deceptively big player-base even though it's not so popular on streaming platform. On PC alone it has daily player count of 18,000 and is in Steam top 100 most played video game. I think it's impressive for any video game that doesn't have anything to do with "EA" brand on it.

I don't think people are "playing" though. They're either hooked on a casino machine or trying to fix / mod the game. Both offline and online are huge time sinks for the wrong reasons IMO.

Need help!

Downloading a game now.
What is general opinion, what version is better, vanilla or latest patch.
Thanks in advance.

Latest patch sucks to me - I don't enjoy it at all. I liked the demo so I'd say vanilla disc for gameplay.

Who knows. They show a football game on they XboxSX announce trailer
all games like Halo and Forza from this video are Microsoft Exclusive, this unknown football game can be .. anything.
Just today several YouTuber starts talking about how Microsoft wanna buy Konami's IPS. I found this rumor is around on the Internet for days.
First, they were talking about Sony but Konami debunk all these rumors, now they start talking about Microsoft, Konami still keeps silence.

Ne wgame would probs something like Actua Soccer ... I doubt it will be anything to do with PES.

But if they went back and opened up the old PES's online play and digital purchases.............that would be GOOD!

 

[PESBUL]

Ne game would probs something like Actua Soccer ... I doubt it will be anything to do with PES.

But if they went back and opened up the old PES's online play and digital purchases.............that would be GOOD!

Oh, of course, the game will be absolute crap, I'm sure. Тhey will focus on casino modes, like UT and MyClub. They see how all sports game makes billions every year and nobody care, almost nobody so... they want that money too. From the trailer, you can see that Microsoft doesn't even know how the human body looks like. The 3D models from the video look hilarious, huge tours with short fat legs. But.. again all that are just rumors and when there is zero news, always rumors take a front.

P.S. Let's not forget that the FIFA license expires this or next year, so it will be interesting to auction for licenses if Sony and Microsoft decide to opt-in.

 

[ThomasGOAL]

They show a football game on they XboxSX announce trailer

I don't think this is a football video game (PES or FIFA), but just a random football 3D scene.

 

[Chris Davies]

I don't think this is a football video game (PES or FIFA), but just a random football 3D scene.

Yep, this is the case.

Neither Konami or EA are ready to show footage at this point, so it's CGI just to remind people that football games are available (and they're trying to make it look like they'll look incredible - for sales, obviously).

 

[hitmanuk]

is there a patch this week?

 

[Hayes]

is there a patch this week?

No

 

[xicpanad]

Guess I´m going back to 2017 again, and maybe for some good time.

I was messing with tactics and despite it does make a good diference, at the same time I can see even better how desperate this game gets to create a challenge. Last night scripting was all over the place. When you play bad, you can still blame yourself, but when you´re doing the right stuff, pressing the oponent and positioning your players correctly, then the BS starts, because simply, there´s no other way for the CPU to challenge you.

I love this game, really do!... The animations, the colors, the ball etc... but yesterday, once again, I saw too many fouls not given to my team, and I had two goals wich made me quit... and I mean for good.

How many times you had this situation? Your CB tackles, you try to get out of the box ASAP, but your CB colides with a team mate, both get that stumble animation, your control inputs are useless for a second, and the ball stays just between the only isolated oponent and your GK for an easy goal. This is situation one.

Situation two: Playing a cautious, positioning and effective defendind, again... CPU can´t create clear chances. But, an attempt for a through pass, goes right to my CB, so I rest my fingers thinking "this one´s mine" and I´m already looking for a counter attack option, but wait!!! Surprise surprise! My CB ignores the ball that slips right of his feet! I quickly react, super cancel, correct direction, sprint... nothing works, my CB is in a induced coma for a few seconds, enough for you know who, yes, the only isolated opponent who reacts normally, picks the ball and shoots for an easy goal.

That´s the kind of goals I got yesterday. Matches are flowing very nicely, good defending from both teams and all, really great stuff. Then this kind of BS happens.

Quited the game, and fired up PES 2017.
Animations are very dated, so are graphics, true. But the gameplay with pretty much ZERO BS is a must. You can literally try everything, and expect everything to work with a very good balance. Even the close control, the minor touch to the ball wich is enough to go past a defender, is sublime.

First match, won with a penalty. Second match, CPU gets a red card. And so on... This is the kind of things that we needed, and are thrown away with some weird decisions from a company, wich has it all, but refuses to give us the perfect product, who knows why!

 

[hitmanuk]

Guess I´m going back to 2017 again, and maybe for some good time.

I was messing with tactics and despite it does make a good diference, at the same time I can see even better how desperate this game gets to create a challenge. Last night scripting was all over the place. When you play bad, you can still blame yourself, but when you´re doing the right stuff, pressing the oponent and positioning your players correctly, then the BS starts, because simply, there´s no other way for the CPU to challenge you.

I love this game, really do!... The animations, the colors, the ball etc... but yesterday, once again, I saw too many fouls not given to my team, and I had two goals wich made me quit... and I mean for good.

How many times you had this situation? Your CB tackles, you try to get out of the box ASAP, but your CB colides with a team mate, both get that stumble animation, your control inputs are useless for a second, and the ball stays just between the only isolated oponent and your GK for an easy goal. This is situation one.

Situation two: Playing a cautious, positioning and effective defendind, again... CPU can´t create clear chances. But, an attempt for a through pass, goes right to my CB, so I rest my fingers thinking "this one´s mine" and I´m already looking for a counter attack option, but wait!!! Surprise surprise! My CB ignores the ball that slips right of his feet! I quickly react, super cancel, correct direction, sprint... nothing works, my CB is in a induced coma for a few seconds, enough for you know who, yes, the only isolated opponent who reacts normally, picks the ball and shoots for an easy goal.

That´s the kind of goals I got yesterday. Matches are flowing very nicely, good defending from both teams and all, really great stuff. Then this kind of BS happens.

Quited the game, and fired up PES 2017.
Animations are very dated, so are graphics, true. But the gameplay with pretty much ZERO BS is a must. You can literally try everything, and expect everything to work with a very good balance. Even the close control, the minor touch to the ball wich is enough to go past a defender, is sublime.

First match, won with a penalty. Second match, CPU gets a red card. And so on... This is the kind of things that we needed, and are thrown away with some weird decisions from a company, wich has it all, but refuses to give us the perfect product, who knows why!

Its insane isnt it - they could put pes 17 ai in and it would be instantly better - some of the goals they score and the fouls are superb - such variation. The only gripe for me is the speed its so much quicker that pes 20 but less end to end. the thing is the early patches in pes 20 were great i think i enjoyed the 1st three patches then it got more and more end to end - now its just so open and the ai is lackluster going forward unless you ar eon legendary then its ok but legendary defense is cheaty as fuck

 

[xicpanad]

It´s such a pity. Game is awesome, it really is. But this nonsense on ML really kills it. After a while I realize that I´m constantly frustrated, all because the game just won´t let me have fun... on purpose! Who the hell comes up with these ideas?

They can´t make the CPU win on a realistic way. Matches are usually won on situations were a player is alone, with a good through pass or someone forgets to mark him. But on PES 2020, I´m marking the players but they can still stay with the ball with no effort, a shoot through my players like it´s super normal, no stress or pressure... It was just making me think "why do I still bother?".

 

[aderow]

Good thought. A bit too much fun / freedom for konami to let us have though.

Cross plat should be more of a thing in general, but it isn't. So i can't really knock Konami for that.

P.S. Let's not forget that the FIFA license expires this or next year, so it will be interesting to auction for licenses if Sony and Microsoft decide to opt-in.

Can you imagine the chaos if EA somehow lost bother Madden and FIFA licenses at the same time

 

[MyNoFoot]

PESBUL said:
P.S. Let's not forget that the FIFA license expires this or next year, so it will be interesting to auction for licenses if Sony and Microsoft decide to opt-in.

(Don't know how to quote this)

I really wish we could get over our obsession with licences.

There has never been an easier time to modify and share and it's coincided with an increasingly shallow audience who care more about tattoos than gameplay.

I would love if a new game came out with no licences and just gave the players total and unrestricted freedom to edit and share.

There is no such thing as image rights and most of the other IP is pretty weak. It's increasingly being enforced through contracts. That is why certain content is restricted from editing. There's no law that says you can't allow a person to create a stadium much like there's no law that prevents someone from drawing a stadium on a blank piece of paper.

The reason the game producers like the restrictions is because it then allows them to force consumers to buy new editions of the game each year as rosters are updated. Since the licences seem to be the main the selling point they then don't need to worry about gameplay. Which is why we could do stuff 20 years ago that we can't do today.

How long have CPU goalkeepers been stuck on the line? Since about PES 2007!

How long have we gone without any penalties in a game?

How have developers not move passed the same old cheats to create a challenging CPU?

Because they don't need to worry about this because they have their precious licences. And faces. Don't forget the faces!

My idea would be to introduce a subscription model which then incentivises developers to keep the players engaged by continually improving the game.

Opening up the game to total freedom when it comes to editing would be one of the ways of achieving that. The game would provide a blank slate. It would be like the old school PES with fake names. Who cares?

There would be an extensive editing section but also, crucial, you would not need to go into editing to change something. It would be like the in-game editor in Football Manager. If you see something that you want to change - you can edit it there and then. It doesn't matter if you've already started a career mode or whatever.

Could you cheat?

It's your game.

Players could share their edits (like they already do). And you'd create a cult following and open up the market to competition.

Crucially developers could focus on gameplay including taking the game to new levels which includes:

a) properly incorporating training into games so that you can pre-plan moves that you're going to do on the pitch! (It's 2020. Why has this not happened yet?);

b) making significant improvements to CPU so that developers rely less on not-so-subtle cheats (for example rather than restricting players that the player has instructed to close down from closing down (thus overriding a specific instruction) there would be more nuance with CPU taking quick goal kicks before the player is set up and players' attributes (notably fitness and work rate) playing a greater role.

c) re-introducing basic features from 20 years ago including keepers that actually leave their lines, that get injured and sent off so that there's a reason for a sub-keeper, re-introducing penalties, yellow cards and red cards in games;

d) introducing basic things like giving a player a choice between a header and volley when they've got about 10 buttons to use! (It's 2020 and we can't decide if we want to head or volley in any computer game).

There's so many basic features that are missing from both games in 2020. And the reason for this is because of the obsession over licences and faces, rather than substance.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

All the PSX and PS2 titles gave me the one more game feeling even at 5am in the morning. Last 5 years of PES give me the one game is more than enough feeling. The universe moves towards balance i guess.

 

[aderow]

I really wish we could get over our obsession with licences.

It less about obsession and more about the fact that the exclusivity license that EA has with FIFA is one of the game's biggest selling points. It has been for a long time. And not just with FIFA. Because of Madden's exclusive NFL license, 2K football died.

I know a lot of people who don't bother with PES because it lacks licenses. And if you don't bother with PES, you won't know that it can be modded. And even then, there are people who do know who can't be bothered to mod it no matter how easy it may to us.

At the end of the day, their job is to sell and having said licenses helps them achieve that. Hence the curiosity of a world where EA no longer has it exclusively or has it at all. Personally, I don't FIFA would survive without it.

My idea would be to introduce a subscription model which then incentivises developers to keep the players engaged by continually improving the game.

I am not a fan of the idea of sports games having subscription models. Sports games don't have enough content to warrant it imo. Subscription models only work when you are putting out new content frequently. Because significant gameplay/code/mode changes are not things that happen quickly. This is something that really only benefits online modes like myclub/UT/myteam/diamond dynasty. In fact, I'd argue it incentivizes ignoring offline even more because of the need to maximize engagement, something that is much more easily achieved in an online multiplayer setting.

That said, I do think it would allow for more long term thinking and planning which would be a benefit long term. But as I said, significant changes are not something that happen in a matter of months or a year. I don't pay full price for yearly titles now so I certainly can't see a scenario where I'm paying for PES monthly.

I'd rather they do away with the yearly cycle by releasing every other year or every 3 years but that will never happen lol.

a) properly incorporating training into games so that you can pre-plan moves that you're going to do on the pitch! (It's 2020. Why has this not happened yet?);

b) making significant improvements to CPU so that developers rely less on not-so-subtle cheats (for example rather than restricting players that the player has instructed to close down from closing down (thus overriding a specific instruction) there would be more nuance with CPU taking quick goal kicks before the player is set up and players' attributes (notably fitness and work rate) playing a greater role.

I'm all for an improved AI. But I don't think they want that. At the very least you'd think they'd have left it alone. A lot of people have been talking about how the AI in 2017 compares to 2020. I, myself, have talked endlessly about the flaws in the AIs defensive awareness, overall positioning, and general passiveness in 2020. It's why I believed the AI was being tailored more for online and multiplayer.

tldr, if they wanted a better more AI they'd probably do it.

To add to that AI is remarkably hard to code. You're attempting to replicate human behavior and logic after all. Any improvements to the AI would take significant time and effort. Things they don't have too much of in a yearly dev cycle.

c) re-introducing basic features from 20 years ago including keepers that actually leave their lines, that get injured and sent off so that there's a reason for a sub-keeper, re-introducing penalties, yellow cards and red cards in games;

What do you mean leave their lines? Like in one on one situations? I know they've introduced stamina related injuries this year, but i think the whole injury system needs to be looked at and redone. I feel the actual injuries and time out injured is completely random at times. As for fouls, they seriously need to address the collision systems. They do that then you'll see keepers getting carded. I've only ever seen a keeper carded once and that was in 2017.

At the same thoough I've gotten more penalties in a month and a half in 2020 than I got in 3+ years of 2017. I've definitely had at least 10 at this point. Getting fouls (though I still wish there were more) and penalties isn't a problem for me. Pogba missing all of them is a problem though lol. I've only had 2 penalties scored by my AI teammates. Both by Fred.

d) introducing basic things like giving a player a choice between a header and volley when they've got about 10 buttons to use! (It's 2020 and we can't decide if we want to head or volley in any computer game).

At the very least they can adjust the timing window for where something would be a header or a volley. For years I'd watch my player go for a diving header instead of just smashing it lol

There's so many basic features that are missing from both games in 2020. And the reason for this is because of the obsession over licences and faces, rather than substance.

See that's apples and oranges. The people working on the kits and the faces aren't the people working on the code, the gameplay, and the modes. The reason why things are missing from the latter is the not the work related to the former. The reason things are missing is the ever increasing focus on modes like myclub and thus tailoring a gameplay suited more for that and competitive.

 

[xicpanad]

To add to that AI is remarkably hard to code. You're attempting to replicate human behavior and logic after all. Any improvements to the AI would take significant time and effort. Things they don't have too much of in a yearly dev cycle.


At the very least they can adjust the timing window for where something would be a header or a volley. For years I'd watch my player go for a diving header instead of just smashing it lol

Agree, AI is hard to code, but they have done it so much better before, why not start from there? Or at least, something around the same principles?

Also, why don´t they try to launch two modes, like simulation and arcade, being the later the only option for online modes? There were games before that had this option. And the fact that they can start with a good offline base and then patch it to an online speed fest, like they did with 2020, just proves that they are very well preapared to have two game modes. It would be a plus for them... revolutionary decision, larger targeted consumer crowd, and a great marketing move against competition.


About the voleys vs headers. So damn simple. The use of LT or RT while the ball is in the air should determine if I wanted a header or not. I´m pretty sure I´ve seen this implemented on some footbal game a long time ago, can´t remember wich one though.

 

[losslesscompression]

I found streamer with very high rating hate facing an equally good opponent as them. It gave me impression that they should be handed the W just because they play with featured players. They also very, very afraid of losing that useless weekly point and rating. Imagine being on 1000 rating but so salty over losing a mere 10 - 20 point over few games.

 

[klashman69]

Are we getting a new update soon because i can't be bothered with data pack 5 gameplay.

What the fuck happened man? I bet they rushed out some gameplay enhancements they tried or focused too much on online.

 

[aderow]

Agree, AI is hard to code, but they have done it so much better before, why not start from there? Or at least, something around the same principles?

If their desire is to create a compelling offline experience, you want an AI that reflects that. Same goes for if you want a compelling online experience; you make an AI that is there but doesn't influence proceedings (issues aside) one way or the other.

Like I said, at the very least, they could have left the AI alone. Instead they've augmented it in a way that taken away from the offline experience with the online experience in mind (ironically it has negatively impacted the online one as well imo). It's a balance trying to tailor the AI in a way that it doesn't influence things too positively or negatively in human v human matches. I don't think they have done a good job in finding that balance.

Also, why don´t they try to launch two modes, like simulation and arcade, being the later the only option for online modes? There were games before that had this option. And the fact that they can start with a good offline base and then patch it to an online speed fest, like they did with 2020, just proves that they are very well preapared to have two game modes. It would be a plus for them... revolutionary decision, larger targeted consumer crowd, and a great marketing move against competition.

In essence, what that would mean is utilizing 'slider sets' for arcade mode and simulation mode. It would still be the same AI and the same code overall. Understand if we did have to 2 modes or slider sets or whatever, any changes they make to the game would impact both. So there's always the possibility that neither would be playable.

Nothing about that would be revolutionary. Having default slider sets has been in NBA2K forever and sliders are part of pretty much every other major sports title. I'm surprised PES continues to go without one. Then again PES doesn't have things that have been standard features in sports game for 10+ years tbf.

The most important thing here, hence why reiterating it, is that it's still one set of code and one AI. If mode/slider set has issues, they all will.

About the voleys vs headers. So damn simple. The use of LT or RT while the ball is in the air should determine if I wanted a header or not. I´m pretty sure I´ve seen this implemented on some footbal game a long time ago, can´t remember wich one though.

However they wanna do it, works for me tbf. I'm just tired of seeing every other cross end up with a scissor kick or bicycle kick instead of a regular header. But then again that's a logic/animation triggering issue as well

 

[aderow]

Are we getting a new update soon because i can't be bothered with data pack 5 gameplay.

What the fuck happened man? I bet they rushed out some gameplay enhancements they tried or focused too much on online.

I'm pretty sure they've been doing that for 3 years mate lol

 

[MyNoFoot]

@ aderow Thanks for the reply. I agree with a lot what you've said. I lack the discipline to do selective quotes so I'll just respond in a random way as points come to me.......

As you've said the licences are the biggest sell so it's not a case of the coders doing the coding and the licensing people dong the licensing, it's the whole approach to the game from both the game producers and consumer which is focused on style over substance. And the reason game producers (and other industries) have done this is because they can dispense with quality by dangling shiny branding in front of people (see also the fashion industry, reality TV and politicians).

On the AI the issue is not so much trying to recreate a human like opponent but actually more fundamentally working from a basic understanding of what makes a real life football match challenging.

A real life football match is not challenging because the referee is the guy from Escape to Victory or because the laws of physics only operate in favour of the opponent. The main reason a player who would ordinarily be able to hit cross bar from the half way in training misses an open goal is because of pressure. In real life that pressure comes in part from not being able to see behind you and not knowing what your team mates are doing. Those things are less of an issue in a computer game where you've got a helicopter view and control all 11 players. So the pressure needs to be ramped up and rather than the game simply overriding commands, the player needs to be forced into making mistakes because of pressure.

Here we see the issue with the lack of fouls. In real life (speaking as an Italian defender) fouls are used to put pressure on opponents. Therefore, the lack of fouls and a biased referee are not the tools to create a challenging experience. Forcing players to overcome disrupted play or to master set pieces is how to create a challenging

A related issue is the GK. I said above the GK does not leave his line sufficiently. What I meant from this is that I can often get to the 6 yard box before slotting the ball home and the GK has made no effort to leave his line. It used to not be like this. There were games where GK's would come out and you could go around him. This impacts so many things:

a) the positioning of the defence which should be further up the pitch with the GK acting as a sweeper;
b) forcing the player to put a through ball in that narrow gap between the defence and the GK;
c) introducing a physicality to the GK which then could result in GK's getting injured or sent off.

This I will selectively quote (don't know how to do it properly....):

At the same thoough I've gotten more penalties in a month and a half in 2020 than I got in 3+ years of 2017. I've definitely had at least 10 at this point. Getting fouls (though I still wish there were more) and penalties isn't a problem for me. Pogba missing all of them is a problem though lol. I've only had 2 penalties scored by my AI teammates. Both by Fred.

Please tell me how you've won penalties!

I have yet to win or concede a penalty in over 100 matches!

I have managed to win and concede lots of free kicks on the edge of the box but, inside, nothing.

Actually now that I haven't got the hang of it I'll selectively quote another:

At the very least they can adjust the timing window for where something would be a header or a volley. For years I'd watch my player go for a diving header instead of just smashing it lol

Surely (on a PS controller) O = volley shot, X = volley pass, [] = headed shot and /_\ = headed pass. I mean seriously, this is Street Fighter logic!

Good talk.

 

[hitmanuk]

@ aderow Thanks for the reply. I agree with a lot what you've said. I lack the discipline to do selective quotes so I'll just respond in a random way as points come to me.......

As you've said the licences are the biggest sell so it's not a case of the coders doing the coding and the licensing people dong the licensing, it's the whole approach to the game from both the game producers and consumer which is focused on style over substance. And the reason game producers (and other industries) have done this is because they can dispense with quality by dangling shiny branding in front of people (see also the fashion industry, reality TV and politicians).

On the AI the issue is not so much trying to recreate a human like opponent but actually more fundamentally working from a basic understanding of what makes a real life football match challenging.

A real life football match is not challenging because the referee is the guy from Escape to Victory or because the laws of physics only operate in favour of the opponent. The main reason a player who would ordinarily be able to hit cross bar from the half way in training misses an open goal is because of pressure. In real life that pressure comes in part from not being able to see behind you and not knowing what your team mates are doing. Those things are less of an issue in a computer game where you've got a helicopter view and control all 11 players. So the pressure needs to be ramped up and rather than the game simply overriding commands, the player needs to be forced into making mistakes because of pressure.

Here we see the issue with the lack of fouls. In real life (speaking as an Italian defender) fouls are used to put pressure on opponents. Therefore, the lack of fouls and a biased referee are not the tools to create a challenging experience. Forcing players to overcome disrupted play or to master set pieces is how to create a challenging

A related issue is the GK. I said above the GK does not leave his line sufficiently. What I meant from this is that I can often get to the 6 yard box before slotting the ball home and the GK has made no effort to leave his line. It used to not be like this. There were games where GK's would come out and you could go around him. This impacts so many things:

a) the positioning of the defence which should be further up the pitch with the GK acting as a sweeper;
b) forcing the player to put a through ball in that narrow gap between the defence and the GK;
c) introducing a physicality to the GK which then could result in GK's getting injured or sent off.

This I will selectively quote (don't know how to do it properly....):

At the same thoough I've gotten more penalties in a month and a half in 2020 than I got in 3+ years of 2017. I've definitely had at least 10 at this point. Getting fouls (though I still wish there were more) and penalties isn't a problem for me. Pogba missing all of them is a problem though lol. I've only had 2 penalties scored by my AI teammates. Both by Fred.

Please tell me how you've won penalties!

I have yet to win or concede a penalty in over 100 matches!

I have managed to win and concede lots of free kicks on the edge of the box but, inside, nothing.

Actually now that I haven't got the hang of it I'll selectively quote another:

At the very least they can adjust the timing window for where something would be a header or a volley. For years I'd watch my player go for a diving header instead of just smashing it lol

Surely (on a PS controller) O = volley shot, X = volley pass, [] = headed shot and /_\ = headed pass. I mean seriously, this is Street Fighter logic!

Good talk.

ive won about 6 or 7 pens since release and im sure they are accidental as in the AI doesnt intend ever to foul in the box and the ref definately doesnt want to give them. Every now and then though i win one normally unexpected like a quick turn of direction or a step over and the legs get tangled.

Here is a classic example how much the ref doesnt want to give a pen (couple of patches ago)


somehwere in my vids there are penalties but i cant be bothered going through them

 

[Hayes]

DATAPACK 6.0 TOMORROW !!!

 

[slamsoze]

DATAPACK 6.0 TOMORROW !!!

Yeah. I needed those faces right now!

 

[xicpanad]

@ aderow Thanks for the reply. I agree with a lot what you've said. I lack the discipline to do selective quotes so I'll just respond in a random way as points come to me.......

As you've said the licences are the biggest sell so it's not a case of the coders doing the coding and the licensing people dong the licensing, it's the whole approach to the game from both the game producers and consumer which is focused on style over substance. And the reason game producers (and other industries) have done this is because they can dispense with quality by dangling shiny branding in front of people (see also the fashion industry, reality TV and politicians).

On the AI the issue is not so much trying to recreate a human like opponent but actually more fundamentally working from a basic understanding of what makes a real life football match challenging.

A real life football match is not challenging because the referee is the guy from Escape to Victory or because the laws of physics only operate in favour of the opponent. The main reason a player who would ordinarily be able to hit cross bar from the half way in training misses an open goal is because of pressure. In real life that pressure comes in part from not being able to see behind you and not knowing what your team mates are doing. Those things are less of an issue in a computer game where you've got a helicopter view and control all 11 players. So the pressure needs to be ramped up and rather than the game simply overriding commands, the player needs to be forced into making mistakes because of pressure.

Here we see the issue with the lack of fouls. In real life (speaking as an Italian defender) fouls are used to put pressure on opponents. Therefore, the lack of fouls and a biased referee are not the tools to create a challenging experience. Forcing players to overcome disrupted play or to master set pieces is how to create a challenging

A related issue is the GK. I said above the GK does not leave his line sufficiently. What I meant from this is that I can often get to the 6 yard box before slotting the ball home and the GK has made no effort to leave his line. It used to not be like this. There were games where GK's would come out and you could go around him. This impacts so many things:

a) the positioning of the defence which should be further up the pitch with the GK acting as a sweeper;
b) forcing the player to put a through ball in that narrow gap between the defence and the GK;
c) introducing a physicality to the GK which then could result in GK's getting injured or sent off.

This I will selectively quote (don't know how to do it properly....):

At the same thoough I've gotten more penalties in a month and a half in 2020 than I got in 3+ years of 2017. I've definitely had at least 10 at this point. Getting fouls (though I still wish there were more) and penalties isn't a problem for me. Pogba missing all of them is a problem though lol. I've only had 2 penalties scored by my AI teammates. Both by Fred.

Please tell me how you've won penalties!

I have yet to win or concede a penalty in over 100 matches!

I have managed to win and concede lots of free kicks on the edge of the box but, inside, nothing.

Actually now that I haven't got the hang of it I'll selectively quote another:

At the very least they can adjust the timing window for where something would be a header or a volley. For years I'd watch my player go for a diving header instead of just smashing it lol

Surely (on a PS controller) O = volley shot, X = volley pass, [] = headed shot and /_\ = headed pass. I mean seriously, this is Street Fighter logic!

Good talk.

Great reading here. I agree sooooo much with this. PES has been totally out of balance because of this, lack of pressure. We all know, while playing, that CPU is pretty much perfect, missing a pass here and there, or a shot, but in the end we know that the miss was intencional for statistic purposes. A team should play with their best stats, but then pressure should have an impact, more on some players than others and that´s were the individuality would shine. I don´t mind if my team plays bad, as long as I also see the CPU commiting real mistakes, and I also need to see the CPU trying hard to get a goal, but missing all chances due to pressure...

As it is now, all matches are noticeable programmed for a certain outcome, with a little bit of margin, but that margin always hits us, too much for my taste. It never hits the CPU.

Also, they need to leave the way ML progresses. IT´s been there for years! First part of the season is a bit easier, if you have TS. Then, suddenly, all matches are a struggle, like we have to loose points on purpose. At the end, things get easier again, but normally it´s too late to recover those lost points. Am I the only one experiencing this? Oh, what about the match before each cup round... Do you struggle too like I do?

 

[hitmanuk]

so is datapack 6 different from the Euros. In the last week ive gone back to pes17 now back to version 1.0 on pes 2020 as 17 started to hurt my eyes and it is really quick. Now im enjoying pes 20 version 1.0 a lot and that version in terms of AI seems closest to pes 2017 ai. AI dribbling more , shooting seems to have more variety. Ill try 6.0 and then drop back down if i need to

 

[xicpanad]

We should have the option to update or not. Offline players shouldn´t be forced to accept any changes to a paid product.

 

[Yegi77]

No

Yes 9 april

 

[Hayes]

Yes 9 april

Well sherlock, there was no news until today.

 

[Danny Henry]

Knuckleball long shot top 10 goals..
welcome look my video,thank you..

This is incredible. How you do this man?. Ive tryed knuckle shot command but the shot only dips down.

 

[aderow]

As you've said the licences are the biggest sell so it's not a case of the coders doing the coding and the licensing people dong the licensing, it's the whole approach to the game from both the game producers and consumer which is focused on style over substance. And the reason game producers (and other industries) have done this is because they can dispense with quality by dangling shiny branding in front of people (see also the fashion industry, reality TV and politicians).

It's funny because the former creative director of Madden, Rex Dixson, was interviewed and he mentioned how every year he would pitch fixing the fundamental issues with the game. You know what the response was from now CEO of EA Andrew Wilson? You can't sell bug fixes.

It reminds me of a really good clip from Steve Jobs where he basically describes what happen when the sales and marketing people are empowered instead of the design and production people.

At the same, I still feel my point on the consumer is an important one; I mean these marketing strategies wouldn't be employed if they didn't work right? Hence why they spend so much on licensing leagues, competitions, and faces.

On the AI the issue is not so much trying to recreate a human like opponent but actually more fundamentally working from a basic understanding of what makes a real life football match challenging.

Yeah I meant that in the context of the understanding of basic football concepts.

A real life football match is not challenging because the referee is the guy from Escape to Victory or because the laws of physics only operate in favour of the opponent. The main reason a player who would ordinarily be able to hit cross bar from the half way in training misses an open goal is because of pressure. In real life that pressure comes in part from not being able to see behind you and not knowing what your team mates are doing. Those things are less of an issue in a computer game where you've got a helicopter view and control all 11 players. So the pressure needs to be ramped up and rather than the game simply overriding commands, the player needs to be forced into making mistakes because of pressure.

That's one thing this game has incorporated but I'm not entirely sure how. Misses do happen because of defensive pressure. That's is something I've definitely experienced. But I don't know if it's something that is influenced by attributes or skills or if it's the same regardless of player.

Something this game lacks completely is attributes for a player's mental state. Implementing that would mean reworking the AI which, as I said, may not be something they are interested in doing. Who knows.

Here we see the issue with the lack of fouls. In real life (speaking as an Italian defender) fouls are used to put pressure on opponents. Therefore, the lack of fouls and a biased referee are not the tools to create a challenging experience. Forcing players to overcome disrupted play or to master set pieces is how to create a challenging

My belief is that the lack of fouls comes from the flaws in the collision engine and the animations themselves. I get a decent amount of fouls. The AI will foul me and my teammates (I play fixed cursor/BAL) 5-7 times a match (20 minute matches). It should definitely be more.

The collision engine in its current form is very poor. It doesn't call anywhere near enough fouls for all the collisions that happen in this game. Not to mention the delay when you are tackled when it feels like your player is stunned. Or you player's inability to avoid tackles. It needs to be looked at.

A related issue is the GK. I said above the GK does not leave his line sufficiently. What I meant from this is that I can often get to the 6 yard box before slotting the ball home and the GK has made no effort to leave his line.

The defensive goalkeeper player type is dreadful. That's why keepers stay on their lines. I hate it. I always make sure my keepers are offensive goalkeepers.

It used to not be like this. There were games where GK's would come out and you could go around him. This impacts so many things:

a) the positioning of the defence which should be further up the pitch with the GK acting as a sweeper;
b) forcing the player to put a through ball in that narrow gap between the defence and the GK;
c) introducing a physicality to the GK which then could result in GK's getting injured or sent off.

I've never seen a keeper get injured. I wouldn't be surprised if GK are programmed to not get injured.

The defensive line should be positioned higher regardless. The defensive lines in this game retreat too quickly too often. That's why there's always so much space in midfield. And it happens regardless of what your defensive line height is set to. It's even worse against 2 strikers.

Please tell me how you've won penalties!

I have yet to win or concede a penalty in over 100 matches!

I have managed to win and concede lots of free kicks on the edge of the box but, inside, nothing.

Lol mate I have no idea how to explain it. I don't know what I might be doing differently and it isn't just me. My AI teammates have won penalties too.

Surely (on a PS controller) O = volley shot, X = volley pass, [] = headed shot and /_\ = headed pass. I mean seriously, this is Street Fighter logic!

Oh I like this idea. I like this a lot. Just have the controls be different when the ball is in the air.

Great reading here. I agree sooooo much with this. PES has been totally out of balance because of this, lack of pressure. We all know, while playing, that CPU is pretty much perfect, missing a pass here and there, or a shot, but in the end we know that the miss was intencional for statistic purposes. A team should play with their best stats, but then pressure should have an impact, more on some players than others and that´s were the individuality would shine. I don´t mind if my team plays bad, as long as I also see the CPU commiting real mistakes, and I also need to see the CPU trying hard to get a goal, but missing all chances due to pressure...

As it is now, all matches are noticeable programmed for a certain outcome, with a little bit of margin, but that margin always hits us, too much for my taste. It never hits the CPU.

Also, they need to leave the way ML progresses. IT´s been there for years! First part of the season is a bit easier, if you have TS. Then, suddenly, all matches are a struggle, like we have to loose points on purpose. At the end, things get easier again, but normally it´s too late to recover those lost points. Am I the only one experiencing this? Oh, what about the match before each cup round... Do you struggle too like I do?

I do feel like the AI was made lacking aspects that reflect the mental side of the game. I think it's one of the reasons it feels so......machine like at times. They do make mistakes though. At least they do on top player.

I'm with you 100% on individuality. I don't feel it in 2020. Whatsoever. Every AI player approaches situations the same way. I hate it. When I see Rashford in a 1 on 1, I want him to use his pace and skill to try and beat his man. Instead he just takes 2 touches then passes it back to the full back. And Martial does the same thing, and James does the same thing, and Fati, and anyone else I have out there.

Team spirit sucks. If they don't revamp it, they should remove it from the game or at least give us the option to turn it off.

 

[aderow]

@MyNoFoot here's one just for you mate lol