FIFA 16 News & Discussion Thread

El Pajaro

League 1
14 May 2008
Individuality is not only about top players. The game should also portray differences between normal players. Besides, in your example, an agility increase for Ronaldo would be unrealistic, he's not more agile than players like Hazard or Neymar for example. His strength rely on others attributes.

I think the individuality is broken anyway in FIFA16 and can't be patched no matter what, it is hardcoded. You can play with Seattle Sounders or Barcelona, you can as easily pass with pinpoint accuracy. The player playstyle are also not reflected properly by the cpu : i saw pirlo running down the wings like he would be a wingback, i saw busquets attempting long range attempts when he would clearly pass in reality, i saw Ronaldo sticking to the side, while he would most likely cut in and wait for a good ball in reality. All these characteristics and playstyle can be easily implemented in any PS2 PES, because of the wonderful stat system. FIFA is lacking there, and thus feels too "generic" IMO.

Nevertheless, i love sometimes playing a few FIFA 16 games, the work of @Ciais will surely make it even more a masterpiece. But i still prefer PES (on PS2) for the reasons i explained, especially for master league/career mode because FIFA bores me after a while, and i believe it is because of that "generic" feeling.
In the old PES games this was much bigger issue. You never, ever got the tall defenders coming to the penalty area for corners. In FIFA 16 I have defender Marcos Rojo making aggressive attacks (as he should) from defender position and tall defenders like Otamendi, Garay putting occasional corner kick headers in... I have 1.98 tall Federico Fazio playing very physically, etc.

And yes... Ronaldo probably isn't very agile. That wasn't my point exactly. The point was that when this Ciais' formula decreases almost all ability settings you can now increase the best players' best abilities tremendously (the difference to ordinary players will be much bigger).

Good if you enjoy PES. I tried to like PES 2017 and 2018... even made some roster mods for them to try and make them play like football. The gameplay wasn't bad but all other things were... no fouls, no received pass errors, crazy comeback logic, etc. I haven't tested PES 2019 yet though.

When it comes to genuine football "feel" FIFA 16 is from different planet. No... different universe, imho. But to each their own.
 
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Ciais

Random Unknown Guy
1 January 2006
Genoa, Italy
Genoa CFC
Guys, let's not make this bigger than it is. Please

@fmicablues7 is right. To make faster players actually be faster, I had to come up with that proportional formula. The way FIFA handles its values, you need a 40-50 difference in order to be noticeable (this for Speed/Accel.)

@El Pajaro, since the formula is proportional (for Agility too), there's no need to manually edit any player (unless of course you want them to be at 99, which would be too much). And since I'm lowering the values based on the rating range and not the player name, really fast or agile players will still be (in theory) above the rest, based on their rating and not their name.
PS: Anyone should enjoy what they want. Again, I'll never be able to please everyone with what I'm doing. Paradoxically, what we perceive as realistic, changes from person to person :))

@Nisoley, @papinho81: There's also this one: https://fifacareermod.wordpress.com/fifa-career-mod-16/
Haven't tried it though, I only ever tried chris2k3's one (which I don't know if it's realistic, but I definitely found it better than vanilla)
 

El Pajaro

League 1
14 May 2008
I was among the first ones who used the reduced agility and other roster tweaks years ago with good results.

https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/pes-5-with-lowered-agility-game-speed-still-the-best.70608/

I also used the global reduced speed edit and increased the really, really fast guys. In PES5 this was an issue that really fast players couldn't make any decent speed runs... defenders always caught them.

This system definitely works to improve player individuality in every football game, not just FIFA 16 because you can make the differences more dramatic. But of course there is so much you can do with the roster tweaks.

I really like what you're doing. You understand football and know how a football game should look and feel which is very important.
 

geeeeee

Console not PC! Mods & patches mean nothing to me!
2 May 2010
London
Tottenham Hotspur
I was among the first ones who used the reduced agility and other roster tweaks years ago with good results.

https://www.evo-web.co.uk/threads/pes-5-with-lowered-agility-game-speed-still-the-best.70608/

I also used the global reduced speed edit and increased the really, really fast guys. In PES5 this was an issue that really fast players couldn't make any decent speed runs... defenders always caught them.

This system definitely works to improve player individuality in every football game, not just FIFA 16 because you can make the differences more dramatic. But of course there is so much you can do with the roster tweaks.

I really like what you're doing. You understand football and know how a football game should look and feel which is very important.
Yes i remember i enjoyed that thread very much. The ideas kept PES5 going for a number of years extra for me. It was like a different game. A big thumbs up for that. :)
 

El Pajaro

League 1
14 May 2008
By the way average amount of goals in World Cup has been less than 3 since 1962 in every single tournament. Last 2018 tournament had highest goal average (2.7) since Mexico 1970.

Footballs most common results: 1-0 has occurred in more than 30,000 games — 16 percent of the total. Other common scores: 2-1 (about 27,000 games), 2-0 (about 22,000) and 1-1 (about 22,000).

What is the most common score in modern PES? I'd say 3-2 or even 4-3. What's the average amount of goals in modern PES (15 min halfs, hardest difficulty). I'm almost 100% sure it's way higher than 2.5 (which is pretty much average of all leagues). I believe it's more like 3.5.

In FIFA (with our settings) the goal average has to be very close to 2.5. Maybe even less. I've had many 0-0 games, which NEVER, EVER happen on modern PES (at least I never had one).

This is an important realism aspect that often gets overlooked.
 

Madmac79

Premiership
11 September 2006
PS: Anyone should enjoy what they want. Again, I'll never be able to please everyone with what I'm doing. Paradoxically, what we perceive as realistic, changes from person to person :))
Completely agree with this.

In the end football is objective, but what we value more o less about his many facets in a videogame is absolutely subjective.

There is the person that values above all individuality, another that values more the general flow, a third one that needs to be challenged to the extreme and so on and on and on. That's why lately I'm personally finding debates of this vs that a bit redundant.. if you aren't set on playing the absolute latest thing, there is already enough stuff out there to at least partially cover what you may value more about the sport, there is no need to establish the better game (which doesn't exist).. I'm personally finding more joy lately in rotating more games (in the little time I have) depending on my mood..

(even if your Fifa 16 mod does have absolute priority as of now :LOVE:)
 

Ciais

Random Unknown Guy
1 January 2006
Genoa, Italy
Genoa CFC
Guys, I don't know if I'm applying this wrong but I do not see any difference in fatigue like you mention
The Stamina rating for all players should be 19 on average, and never above 30.
If it's way higher for you, it means you didn't apply the Gameplayzer correctly -- in that case, I'll gladly guide you through it :))
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
PS: @Chris Davies, are you by any chance still interested in this? I remember you had some worries about low ratings for lower-tier teams, but I can't really say about that. Right now the difference in ratings between teams and players is maybe not as clear as in the vanilla game. The best way would be to see how they feel when playing against each other, since I don't wanna simulate realistic ratings but gameplay, if you know what I mean. Let me know if/when you're willing to try this, even for Career Mode :))
I am planning on coming back to it - I've had a retro PES weekend (I've just got PES 2017 up and running on my PC, which I didn't think would be capable of running it, so I'm currently in nostalgia heaven)... but by the time I'm fed up of PES you'll be on the next level with your FIFA 16 edits I'm sure. :D
 

Ciais

Random Unknown Guy
1 January 2006
Genoa, Italy
Genoa CFC
Ahaha, yes, I saw. Blast from the past! :DD

OT: I remember having a literal blast with ESPN MLS GameNight and J.League Jikkyō Winning Eleven 2001, both for the PSX with the ISS Pro Evolution 2 engine, I believe. Especially loved the Japanese commentary on the latter. End OT :))
 

Ciais

Random Unknown Guy
1 January 2006
Genoa, Italy
Genoa CFC
Hello there, I did some testing. Here are my findings:
  • Dribbling, Short Passing, Long Passing and Crossing: it looks like that these indeed control a player's ability, not the frequency. Will still lower them so these things will be harder to do for both User and CPU. For the right pass/dribble balance, Team Tactics are likely more important, but, from what I've seen in testing, maybe not as impactful
  • Ball Control: this one controls the first touch control. I'd leave it as it is then, and only use the FT control slider
  • Long Shots: this too controls how good a player is in long shots, not the frequency (which is apparently dictated by Shot Power). I'm gonna lower this globally too, more shots into the stands from outside the box
  • Standing Tackle and Sliding Tackle: the tackle values, on the other hand, do seem to dictate the frequency. Will keep Sliding Tackle as at least double the Standing Tackle, I wasn't seeing any slides otherwise
@papinho81: I just tried your V2 simsettings.ini. I simulated 1 Genoa CFC (of course :DD) season in Manager Career.
I really like it. And I mean, REALLY really. Of course it may need some more tweaking, but from what I'm seeing so far:
  • More variable results (some high scoring games, in the right amount I believe, like in reality)
  • Strong teams are strong (but they do sometimes lose 1-0, 2-1 to the bottom teams, as IRL)
  • Good amount of cards
Unfortunately, there's only so much I can do in testing it, but it's staying in my "gameplay testing installation", if you know what I mean :))
 

Ciais

Random Unknown Guy
1 January 2006
Genoa, Italy
Genoa CFC
Sorry for the triple post :))

I'm finishing editing the players' attributes, to fix the issues we've seen so far and compensate with what I've observed in the post above.
Plus, I tweaked some other, related ratings (eg: I slightly raised Shot Power, so I slightly lowered Finishing too).

When I'm done, I'll play some test matches because I'll surely need to adjust the Sliders.

Then I'll post it, and if everything is fine, I'll do the big to-do list while surfing through the countless pages, mods and threads, because DB editing isn't just the players -- team tactics and mentalities are important too, and Pap gave me a good tip for that (Whoscored.com) :SAL:
 

Madmac79

Premiership
11 September 2006
Man I'm sure there is a lot to do. But in the meantime I'm doing a no-pretense league with Atalanta in the current material and having good fun.

The experience is, as expected, a bit diluted compared with the Cup, but I'm having very nice games nonetheless; last one against Juventus for example was really entertaining, with both teams super depleted of stamina and incredibly heavy in the end of the game; Bianconeri won 1-0 and felt indeed like the better team for all the game.

By the way @Ciais , I was thinking; what about player traits? Do you think it's already the most optimal distribution of them as they are? Sometimes I think there could be room for way more personalization and tries.. what's your opinion on the matter :) ?
 

Ciais

Random Unknown Guy
1 January 2006
Genoa, Italy
Genoa CFC
Good choice, I like Atalanta too (Gasperini is a great manager; I should know :()

Good question about player traits. I think fifaCCitiu did something like that in the Gameplayzer -- at least, that's what he wrote in the commented lines. I don't know if he indeed did it, and how, will have to look at the source code.
I know some modders argue that players should have most if not all traits, but I won't know if it'll be a good option until we eventually try.
So don't worry, I plan to take all possible options into consideration, and that includes the traits too ;))
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
I set all of this up last night with the latest DB changes, CL.ini and sliders.

It was a breath of fresh air, certainly - making the "stock" FIFA 16 feel arcadey by comparison! I was really surprised at how much of a difference there was.

But there was something about the AI behaviour that just felt off to me - they were a little too happy to pass sideways and not move forward when space was presented to them (as a team with a similar level to my own team), and fairly often they would under-hit a pass and gift possession to one of my forwards.

Animations felt slightly slow to me, as well - I almost felt like simply switching to "normal" speed would fix a lot of my personal complaints, and it did to a degree - but I think that's because we're looking for different things (don't get me wrong, I 100% want a simulation, but I also only want matches to last 15 minutes or otherwise I'd never get through a season)!

It's astonishing work given how different it is from the original - congrats to you, @Ciais!
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
Chris, did you use 1.01 EXE version?
Ah, forgot to include that in my post but yes, I did - again, it's a world away from the 1.07 EXE. Everything is 100% improved by all of these changes (the 1.01 EXE, the DB edits etc.) but things like the AI giving away silly cross-field passes to my forwards don't sit well. It's just how the engine is, sadly (it's pretty strange seeing how changing certain things cause the exact same issues I've caused in FIFA 19 by playing with the sliders - it makes you realise how little actually changes year-to-year in the depth of the code).

The other issue I have is career mode of course - with player stats being hugely reduced overall it affects transfer fees, wages, and youth players (some of whom are immediately first-team ready). Looking at career mode patches other people have made (already mentioned in this thread) I think all this could be fixed to match the DB edits, actually - but it could take a lot of work, and I've learnt to love (or rather, cope with) Jelly-Legs 19.

But I can't stress enough that all this work creates a huge improvement.
 

Ciais

Random Unknown Guy
1 January 2006
Genoa, Italy
Genoa CFC
Thank you Chris for taking the time to test my work so far,
although, to be honest, I don't know if I should be glad or sad about your impressions :))

Trying to tweak this game is extremely complicated. Everything is interconnected, and one apparently simple edit could f**k everything up. More than once I was tempted to just throw in the towel. I'm confident I will never be able to finish or reach some level of completeness, and even if I did, I will never reach the level of depth reached by other, more entitled gameplay modders. So forgive me if what I'm doing ruins the experience for you, just let me know and I'll stop.

In any case, here's the latest Gameplayzer: https://mega.nz/#!3kExSaoL!9Q7cExRq68Pu6gwEVI6OHDJlBQvgdg8Z5NonKU-jvds
https://mega.nz/#!3kExSaoL!9Q7cExRq68Pu6gwEVI6OHDJlBQvgdg8Z5NonKU-jvds
Changes to the players:


Changes to the teams:


Sliders:


cl.ini:
[] //ATTRIBUTES
CPUAI_USE_ATTRIBUTES=1
CPUAI_USE_TRAITS=1
CPUAI_USE_MENTALITY=1
CPUAI_USE_DIFFICULTY=0
MUST_RUN_FWD_INTENSITY=0

[] //ATTACKING
MENTAL_VISION=45
FORCE_ANY=0.5
FORCE_FRONT=0.99
FORCE_BACK=0.1
FORCE_OBJECTIVE_FORCEDLONGPASSUP=1

[] //DEFENDING
CPUAI_DEFENSE_DIFFICULTY=8
MENTAL_INFLEXIBILITY=100
MENTAL_POSITIONING=100
MENTAL_INTERCEPTIONS=75
FORCE_OUTSIDE=8.0
FORCE_INSIDE=8.0
KEEP_UP_PRESSURE=1
EFFORT_GIVEUP_LEVEL=99
AI_NO_SLIDE_TACKLE=0
MAX_REASON_FOR_SLIDE_TACKLE=2
MAX_REASON_FOR_STAND_TACKLE=1
SLIDE_TACKLE=500
STAND_TACKLE=500
SLIDETACKLE=500.0
TACKLE=500.0
DIVES_INTO_TACKLES=100
ALLOW_TACKLE_FROM_BEHIND_WHEN_AGGRESSIVE=1
ENABLE_PHYSICAL_PLAY_PUSH_PULL=1
PULL=40000
PUSH=8000
FOUL_TEAM_SIDE=1
FORCE_FOUL_TEAM_SIDE_ENABLED=1
CONTENTIOUS_FOUL_ENABLED=1

[] //REFEREE
RULES_FOUL=1
REFEREE_FOUL_STRICTNESS_OVERRIDE=2
REFEREE_CARD_STRICTNESS_OVERRIDE=0.5
USE_PRECISION_REF=1

[] //CHEATING
MovementPrediction=0
CPUAI_GetBallToPlayerScorePredictionPoints=0
[ADAPTIVE_DIFFICULTY]
ENABLED=0

Saludos
 

final lap

League 1
21 August 2007
Miami, FL
Finally was able to fix my problem and now the dB has been applied. Huge positive changes. Great work Ciais. I am currently going back and forth between fifa 16 and 19. Not sure which one to play. Both have things the other doesn't have that I really like. But I really appreciate your hard work
 

El Pajaro

League 1
14 May 2008
Observations:

Short corners fixed. They happen occasionally but rarely (perfect now)
CPU midfielders put more long balls for the forwards now (which is good and realistic)
CPU forwards much more aggressive now.
Game speed got faster. Maybe it's possible to compensate that with even lower sprint speed?
CPU doesn't foul even nearly as much anymore. Look at the amount of tackles and only 2 CPU fouls now. I wonder why is that... or could it be that the AI ref was just randomly less strict than usual? I believe there's less fouls now because all players seemed to get some kind of "overall skill and agility boost". So there aren't so many "clumsy collisions" anymore. My tackle numbers are lower than usual too... it's harder to tackle now because the CPU players seem faster.

I think the game also got more challenging due to more aggressive CPU attacks. I like that. I think the gameplay is best ever (so far) but how could that have affected the fouls? Hmm... or maybe it was just random and another game is needed.

 

Ciais

Random Unknown Guy
1 January 2006
Genoa, Italy
Genoa CFC
Hey :))

Ok, so:
  • You definitely sure it's faster? Or they just pass more quickly?
  • About fouls, the problem isn't the referee, it's set to strictest in cl.ini (at 2)
  • I'm also positive there's no agility boost, since I radically lowered it, only the very best have it at 70+
  • The only thing that could affect the speed perception and lack of fouls could be Reactions and/or Marking (which I significantly increased)
  • Other suspects could be the Work Rates and the new Attacking strings in cl.ini
Let me know if you play another game, so we can be sure :))
 

El Pajaro

League 1
14 May 2008
I already played another half and same effect... less CPU fouls, definitely. Maybe the better reactions/marking could be the cause. Now when they react faster in those close contact situations player doesn't get the advantage over CPU anymore and they're not forced to foul that much.

Does "marking" mean "man marking"? If so, the CPU players could be more optimally positioned on the field and thus, they're not forced to chase the opposition players that much?

It could be either one.

Maybe the faster tempo is just better reactions also? They act faster and pass faster?
 

Ciais

Random Unknown Guy
1 January 2006
Genoa, Italy
Genoa CFC
These are the official EA definitions. Take them with a grain of salt (:D):

Marking - Increasing your Marking attribute will improve the default position your player takes up when your team is not in possession of the ball.

Reactions - Good reactions will allow you to latch onto loose balls & rebounds quicker than other players.

I believe you're right about Marking, it may be what's causing it.

About Reactions though, it appears to be only about loose balls. There's a bug in FIFA 16 that causes players to ignore them, that's why I increased it :THINK:

I'll try reverting Marking to what it was before (no increase), and see how it goes for now :))
 

El Pajaro

League 1
14 May 2008
Cool.

I'll playtest it first in the morning if you put out new Gameplayzer.

The gameplay is very good now. I like the more aggressive forwards and those occasional long balls for them. Plays excellent. This increased the difficulty and for some reason the lower speed & spring settings feel more natural.
 
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