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FIFA 20 Discussion Thread

slamsoze

Champions League
28 September 2010
Some of my player highlights from our Full Manual Pro Club

Very beautiful. For me the 11vs11 modes on both FIFA and PES, who seem more slow and physical AND have midfield phase , shows directly that the problem on both games is the halfarsed AI, that can't compete with human in role playing, transitions and off the ball movement, resulting to this end to end mess in all 1P games, offline career modes and online pvp modes.
Whereever 1 is controlled by human and 10 by AI.
 

Antoine

League 2
28 September 2016
On Professional, you may have more license to adjust the lines, relative to the marking. If it seems they are essentially parking the bus (not 100% like in FIFA 15, but still we'll say defensive third), you can raise the Length to at highest 48. That would be a global change. The second part would be to pay attention to formations faced and of course the tactics chosen. A high marking value is going to drag players out of position more, but it's relative to the run frequency used as well. If you have run frequency at 50, and marking at 72, then you're going to get a lot more out of position plays because run frequency not only controls how many runs, but how far the runs extend to. Lower run frequency, and they will make a variety of runs, but the run will end with a checking back to the ball - unless you have manually set them on a run and/or their player instructions are set to go inside, overlap, etc.

Hope that helps. Glad you're enjoying it. I think professional is a fun difficulty, my only issue was that it was too easy to tackle the ball away from the CPU, regardless of creating acceleration discrepancies, among other things.
@Matt10 Thanks so much that really helped.

One other question are you (or anyone) still seeing the weird free kick bug from the a.i? It seems since last update its back where the CPU fires in rocket free kicks, usually overhit, straight out of play? Is it a camera issue? When they have a free kick around the box its ok. its when its mid way into the half.

Anybody seeing this?
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
Hey guys. Here's a thing.

I've just played FIFA 18's World Cup add-on, after finding 17 a bit unresponsive and not quite as brilliant as I remember.

Surprisingly, I loved it. The pace on "slow", was too slow. That BLEW MY MIND given how fast FIFA games are. Defenders defend, there's individuality... and you can't exploit the game easily using fast players. (Believe me, I tried.)

Anyway - this got me looking at reviews, of 18, 19 and 20 (getting to the point now, and why I'm posting this here).

Every review (user review AND media review) of FIFA 19 absolutely pulls it to pieces. Rightly, IMO. But...

The first link for me if I Google "FIFA 19 review" is this one. If you haven't read this, please, spend five minutes reading this:

Bleacher Report: FIFA 19 Re-Review, and How EA Broke Its Promising Game

It's astonishing. Brilliant article, great insight. Especially when it talks about the game becoming much more about exploits than solid gameplay.

But what really gets me... Remember when @Matt10 was talking about how good the FIFA 20 beta was? (I experienced it - it REALLY WAS.) Along with Operation Sports, and the presentation they saw that showed how committed to realism they were? Then, between beta and final... The game turned to absolute shit? And now, we get monthly updates to fix FUT moans, and half the time they're rushed and break other parts of the game?

It all started with FIFA 19. Check out this article, seriously. It's like the blueprint.
 

majuh

Champions League
11 December 2010
That article is absolutely useless in my opinion. In the beginning, they say that FIFA 19 has lived the life of multiple games, but the rest of the article basically only consists of eSports whining that the patches changed nothing. And this is supposed to warrant a downgrade of 8.5 => 4 for gameplay and 8 => 4 for the modes?

It's frustrating that, in a year in which EA is hosting multiple FIFA esports events across the globe, there isn't greater visibility on what's being done to improve the game for average players.

Guess what, average players don't give a shit about any of these mechanics they are crying about. I think they fail to realize that not everyone competes in the FUT Weekend League.

I'm still playing FIFA 19. The game didn't change much between the release date and now. And yes, it's one of the best virtual representations of modern football. There's no point in making the game eSports ready simply because real football itself isn't what people would call "eSports ready". There's no other sport where the correlation between team performance and results is so low.
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
It's frustrating that, in a year in which EA is hosting multiple FIFA esports events across the globe, there isn't greater visibility on what's being done to improve the game for average players.

Guess what, average players don't give a shit about any of these mechanics they are crying about. I think they fail to realize that not everyone competes in the FUT Weekend League.
Are you not saying the same things there? The article is saying "what about average players, where are the changes for them, and why are FUT players forcing rushed changes to the game that deviate so far from the original vision" - you're saying "average players don't care about FUT-driven changes".

I'm surprised at your strong reaction when everything that you're saying, I feel like is repeated in the article (albeit with references to what online players are feeling)! I thought it was a great article, and unusual - how often does a website review something and then go back to say "actually, we STRONGLY disagree with what the developers have, and are, doing to it through its life-cycle"?

Playing FIFA 18 and feeling how much slower, more difficult to exploit and generally more realistic it is in terms of a representation of football (IMO) - which is driven by gameplay changes not being made instantly for FUT whiners, and by the vision not deviating wildly from the original vision... I just feel like the path of the modern games is so wrong.

19 and 20 are so much faster and floatier it's unreal, to me.
 

el niche

League 1
23 September 2013
Miami, FL
Atl. Huila
Hey guys. Here's a thing.

I've just played FIFA 18's World Cup add-on, after finding 17 a bit unresponsive and not quite as brilliant as I remember.

Surprisingly, I loved it. The pace on "slow", was too slow. That BLEW MY MIND given how fast FIFA games are. Defenders defend, there's individuality... and you can't exploit the game easily using fast players. (Believe me, I tried.)

Anyway - this got me looking at reviews, of 18, 19 and 20 (getting to the point now, and why I'm posting this here).


But what really gets me... Remember when @Matt10 was talking about how good the FIFA 20 beta was? (I experienced it - it REALLY WAS.) Along with Operation Sports, and the presentation they saw that showed how committed to realism they were? Then, between beta and final... The game turned to absolute shit? And now, we get monthly updates to fix FUT moans, and half the time they're rushed and break other parts of the game?

It all started with FIFA 19. Check out this article, seriously. It's like the blueprint.
Spot on article, but it basically says what everyone here always states, the game is moving so much for the instant exploit crowd/FUT online mindless 5-4 scorelines. I've actually deleted fifa 19 and on the verge of deleting 20 and just focus on 16-17. Will try 18 if there is a good somewhat recent patch.

Its kinda sad really, FIFA was heading in the right direction a few years ago, but whats the point if FUT will fill their wallets faster than a proper soccer game (just look at top selling games... fifa is always on top).

The best time to buy a fifa game is one year after, I really cant deal with their 10 patches that break /change gameplay.
 

Redhat

Premiership
16 June 2007
US
Manchester United
@Matt10 Thanks so much that really helped.

One other question are you (or anyone) still seeing the weird free kick bug from the a.i? It seems since last update its back where the CPU fires in rocket free kicks, usually overhit, straight out of play? Is it a camera issue? When they have a free kick around the box its ok. its when its mid way into the half.

Anybody seeing this?
Yup, it's been occuring for awhile now. The ball will comically soar through the air at 200 MPH while dipping and bending in otherworldly fashion. Unfortunately for them, they boot it out for a goal kick 99/100 times.
 

majuh

Champions League
11 December 2010
Are you not saying the same things there? The article is saying "what about average players, where are the changes for them, and why are FUT players forcing rushed changes to the game that deviate so far from the original vision" - you're saying "average players don't care about FUT-driven changes".

I'm surprised at your strong reaction when everything that you're saying, I feel like is repeated in the article (albeit with references to what online players are feeling)! I thought it was a great article, and unusual - how often does a website review something and then go back to say "actually, we STRONGLY disagree with what the developers have, and are, doing to it through its life-cycle"?
No, that's a misunderstanding, I'm trying to say that these FUT driven changes have minimal impact on anyone who's not actively trying to exploit the game. Average players won't even realize that something changed. Of course the game could do with certain improvements, but what they are demanding is exactly the wrong way to go. We need general improvements, not eSports balancing or increasing the skill gap with an even more convoluted control scheme.

Playing FIFA 18 and feeling how much slower, more difficult to exploit and generally more realistic it is in terms of a representation of football (IMO) - which is driven by gameplay changes not being made instantly for FUT whiners, and by the vision not deviating wildly from the original vision... I just feel like the path of the modern games is so wrong.

19 and 20 are so much faster and floatier it's unreal, to me.
Funnily enough, as I recall it, FIFA 18 felt more frantic to me than FIFA 17 and FIFA 19.
 

Matt10

Champions League
5 February 2004
Hey guys. Here's a thing.

I've just played FIFA 18's World Cup add-on, after finding 17 a bit unresponsive and not quite as brilliant as I remember.

Surprisingly, I loved it. The pace on "slow", was too slow. That BLEW MY MIND given how fast FIFA games are. Defenders defend, there's individuality... and you can't exploit the game easily using fast players. (Believe me, I tried.)

Anyway - this got me looking at reviews, of 18, 19 and 20 (getting to the point now, and why I'm posting this here).

Every review (user review AND media review) of FIFA 19 absolutely pulls it to pieces. Rightly, IMO. But...

The first link for me if I Google "FIFA 19 review" is this one. If you haven't read this, please, spend five minutes reading this:

Bleacher Report: FIFA 19 Re-Review, and How EA Broke Its Promising Game

It's astonishing. Brilliant article, great insight. Especially when it talks about the game becoming much more about exploits than solid gameplay.

But what really gets me... Remember when @Matt10 was talking about how good the FIFA 20 beta was? (I experienced it - it REALLY WAS.) Along with Operation Sports, and the presentation they saw that showed how committed to realism they were? Then, between beta and final... The game turned to absolute shit? And now, we get monthly updates to fix FUT moans, and half the time they're rushed and break other parts of the game?

It all started with FIFA 19. Check out this article, seriously. It's like the blueprint.
It's a good article, quite detailed and gives good examples of the gradual issues. Personally, I couldn't care less what those players he references thinks though. They are part of the problem and one of the big reasons that the FIFA 20 pre-patch beta never saw the light of release day. In 19, they complain about timed-finishing, I never used it, never cared for it. Complained about AI defending, to me that's something I would have preferred they had kept because now instead we have to micro-manage defenders throughout the pitch.

The problem with EA is two-fold. First, that they take feedback too literally. They assess the feedback and then execute too aggressively. Don't like AI defending? Okay, in 20 we'll put your defenders to be statues, won't let the central midfielders to track back into the defensive line's area, and ensure that you have to switch and jockey manually constantly to block off passing lanes.

The second problem is the fact that this an online game trying to serve its place in two different environments; online and offline. A dead-horse being beaten, I know, but the issue remains that the sport of footy/soccer is compressed as much as possible. Yes, sliders are there, but they only do so much. The serving of two different environments means that one side will not be happy. That's mainly us offline guys. What serves well for online guys, usually hurts us offline guys - and vice/versa. It's going to be a never-ending struggle until EA separate the online FIFA from the offline, FIFA - pretty much what they did in Madden. Even by power of suggestion i the description would go a long way in the modes, such as Ultimate Team, Arcade and Sim.

Pitch Notes continue to be the best source of where EA's head at. It's funny that they spend so much time in writing up those articles, because it's not based on long match samples. It's based on multiple match sample sizes. Just imagine if they actually tested how effective shot error was last year, and this year. It's a thing of beauty. They'll never know though.
 

papinho81

Championship
22 March 2017
Chaumont Switzerland
Olympique de Marseille
That was a great post @Matt10 !
I only played fut back on fifa14 and I remember the gameplay was significantly different from the others modes, online ones included. Can't tell how it is now, but different gameplay depending on game modes is surely the only viable option for offline players. One could say this increases the work for ea team, but hey, they released volta this year which comes with its own gameplay.

Now considering non gameplay related issues, the career files that ea should fix to improve the mode experience have no impact on fut/online mode, but they hardly address them which shows how little they care about offline modes. Considering that, not sure they will ever (again?) care about releasing a different gameplay purely for offline modes.
 
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rockstrongo

World Cup Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
I've chosen FIFA 18 over other games the past 7-8 months now,started during 19 and kept going when 20 was released.
Still enjoy it,only downside for me playing outside the EPL is a lack of stadiums Vs 19/20.
Still take it over the past two games though
 

el niche

League 1
23 September 2013
Miami, FL
Atl. Huila
Playing FIFA 18 and feeling how much slower, more difficult to exploit and generally more realistic it is in terms of a representation of football (IMO) - which is driven by gameplay changes not being made instantly for FUT whiners, and by the vision not deviating wildly from the original vision... I just feel like the path of the modern games is so wrong.
I re-installed '18 as I remember I enjoyed it a while ago. You were not kidding when you said it played slow. I actually feel it plays slower than '16. I dont know why '19 and '20 just dont connect with me..

I've chosen FIFA 18 over other games the past 7-8 months now,started during 19 and kept going when 20 was released.
Still enjoy it,only downside for me playing outside the EPL is a lack of stadiums Vs 19/20.
Still take it over the past two games though
The old games have something special I dont know what it is... 20 and 19 feel sometimes like im trying to hard to think "hey I like this". I've installed so many fifa games these days and some just click.
 

rockstrongo

World Cup Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
I re-installed '18 as I remember I enjoyed it a while ago. You were not kidding when you said it played slow. I actually feel it plays slower than '16. I dont know why '19 and '20 just dont connect with me..



The old games have something special I dont know what it is... 20 and 19 feel sometimes like im trying to hard to think "hey I like this". I've installed so many fifa games these days and some just click.
I have 15-20 installed,and I honestly feel that 17/18 plays the best (I know a lot of people prefer 16).
Great pace on 18.
I remember people saying 18 was a bit hectic,but I find it being great
 

bsmaff

International
11 August 2003
Welwyn Garden
Exeter City
I decided to try FIFA 18 WC again after reading Chris' post.

I beat Tunisia 2-1, and for the first time in a year, I actually enjoyed playing FIFA again.
Not sure if it was just a Placebo effect, but the game plays so much better than 20.

I will finish my WC tournament this weekend, but after one game I really enjoyed it.
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
I decided to try FIFA 18 WC again after reading Chris' post.

I beat Tunisia 2-1, and for the first time in a year, I actually enjoyed playing FIFA again.
Not sure if it was just a Placebo effect, but the game plays so much better than 20.

I will finish my WC tournament this weekend, but after one game I really enjoyed it.
It was great for me, UP UNTIL I got Germany in the semis. Suddenly the game speed doubled (movement speed and pass speed), and I was heartbroken. Up to this point I had a lot of 0-0s. Suddenly I just had to watch Germany score at will - but... At least it's difficult. For me.

Speaking of which...

Interestingly, modding FIFA 20 with the Frostbite editor, I've discovered that slowing the internal sprint speed range down (and adding more friction to the ball in order to slow passes down, plus a higher restitution value that results in larger first-touches and more opportunities to win back possession for both sides) - makes the AI much harder to beat.

I was astounded by this but it seems a large part of how easy it is against the AI by default is that you can just speed your defenders over to the opponent and block a pass often. With a larger difference between slow and fast players (even with the fastest players then being slowed down a bit), suddenly a good move becomes impossible to stop if your positioning is lazy.

There's another mod out there for FIFA 20 - whose name I daren't mention seeing as he's out to make money out of his work - which turns down all the inflated EPL team attributes to sensible levels, too. Combined with that, I've had some GREAT games this afternoon.

The more you dig through with the Frosty editor, the more you realise just how much scope there is with 20 underneath it all - and how much of it they've thrown away.

You have an emotion engine that play-by-play affects a players' confidence and resulting abilities - but because a FUT will put the aimer on, miss a shot and scream "THE AIMER SHOWED IT WAS ON TARGET" (with no fucks given as to what the engine is trying to replicate).

You have real physics values down to stupid levels (as attested to by the missus, who works in that field) - from friction, to drag, to density and mass, and more rules of physics than I've ever had described to me in my life (each stadium is set in a part of the world that has its own "air viscosity" and that affects the flight of the ball, for fucks sake)...

...and then they go and multiply the speed values by 2 to "make it fun"... What the fuck, man.
 

el niche

League 1
23 September 2013
Miami, FL
Atl. Huila
...and then they go and multiply the speed values by 2 to "make it fun"... What the fuck, man.
so you think underneath the frostbite engine theres a better game? Better thatn those in the ignite? I’ve read beta gameplay of 18 and 20 were great, but better than pre patched 16 or 14? Its interesting bc people want a new engine but whats the point if it will be aimed at non sim gameplay.
 

bsmaff

International
11 August 2003
Welwyn Garden
Exeter City
so you think underneath the frostbite engine theres a better game? Better thatn those in the ignite? I’ve read beta gameplay of 18 and 20 were great, but better than pre patched 16 or 14? Its interesting bc people want a new engine but whats the point if it will be aimed at non sim gameplay.
There is definitely a better game in the current engine.
Some PC gameplay mods have proved that.

The problem though with EA and well all companies are they are cash/sales driven.
EA make more money out of FUT than they do out of actual game sales, and the FUT crowd want the game to be all about how good you are Daley Thompsons Olympic Challenge than you are at football.
Could you imagine the outcry if someone like me could switch formation and read the game tactically, but can't pull of the simplest of skill moves can compete with Ryu from Street Fighter who can pull 150 skill moves out their arse with Harry Maguire and smack one from 30 yards in the top corner every attack?
No that's not the game they want.. They want the game to be every pass a skill pass and then near the box flick it over your head and volley into top corner.

The problem is people like me and Chris are the absolute 5% minority of who want an actual simulation, where the tactics you play have as much impact as how good you are.
There was a FIFA might of been 17 or 18, when if I played a team playing 5-3-2 I just couldn't score, so combat that formation I used to have to change to 3-4-3 to get a goal.

There is no doubt a hole in the market for a decent simulation football game, but at present both games are as bad as each other.
Sorry PES although I used to love it, it has been a pile of garbage since the PS3 days and every year disappoints.
Also with the cost of producing games at the moment and licenses there is just no one who will enter the market.
 

rockstrongo

World Cup Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
Being a 5% myself I only see one solution if people want proper SIM,or at least something close to it.
That's playing the game with other like-minded people 10v10 (or 11v11).
Can't imagine EA or Konami ever giving us a CPU resembling a human opponent.

And yes sliders are all fine,but as long as you can't set tendencies for the CPU those are really minor fixes for a much bigger problem
When we can control/fix how aggressive/how often they shoot/pass/cross/keep the ball etc etc ,then these games Vs the CPU would really be playing Vs a human.

Can't really praise playing league/games Vs and with other humans (who's like-minded) enough!
It's brilliant
 
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