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Lack of fouls (in PES and FIFA). I found one solution for PES2017

El Pajaro

Championship
14 May 2008
You remember me? I made some serious experiments to PES5 back in the day. I managed to get the game more realistic with global attribute tweaks.

I got the football game "kick" again and bought FIFA 15, 16, 17 and 18. Then I bought PES 2016, 2017 and 2018 for PC.

Guess what's in common with all these games?

Yeah... they have no fouls. WE9 and PES5 were amazing in this sense. You actually got 'em. Even PES6 was much worse and it has been a major issue with ALL football games ever since.

In real football there are 22-26 fouls per game (average), depending on the league.

I'm not suggesting that a football simulation should have that much (as the simulated halfs are shorter, like 15 mins (compared to 45 min real time). But there should be at least 10-15 fouls per game to feel realistic, imho. Most of them should happen in the midfield and be "relatively harmless" ones. But getting a free kick or two from a good position per game is just realism.

I played these games religiously for a week and found out that NONE of the gameplay patches that I tried had any effect on fouls. At least for me as I don't use the sliding tackle a lot.

PES 2018 is hopeless. Konami promised more fouls with 1.03 patch but it wasn't true. I didn't see much difference at all. FIFAs play really nice too... but they have no fouls, either. You can actually play a full game in PRO level and get ZERO fouls with 15 min halfs.

How difficult it would be to put a "referee strictness" slider there? I guess it won't happen. This is the mockery of the sport... not a simulation. Too bad as these new games play brilliantly.

As a die-hard PES fan I have to say that FIFA 2017 has the most potential to be a realistic simulation. PES 2017 and 2018 play great but there are way too many goals and the CPU comeback logic is too strong. You know what's going to happen when you have the lead in the final minute and CPU gets a corner. Yeah, they score. FIFA 2017 is like PES5 in the sense that you can even have 0-0 games. Won't happen in PES 2017 and 2018. But then again FIFA 17 has ZERO fouls, lol.

But you know what? I managed to increase them for PES 2017. I took PES Editor and adjusted all players' "Physical contact" to 99 and got a slight improvement. It also changed the gameplay to more aggressive.

Screenshot from an exhibition game against CPU, PRO difficulty.



I'm not saying I get this much fouls in EVERY game. But I do get them. And CPU gets yellows and even reds occasionally. That being said, I think the same adjustment would probably work for PES 2018 too.

Next I'm going to examine if I could increase them in FIFA 17.

These are just MY observations and opinions and I'd just want to have discussion about this. There's no way I can go back to PES5 and PES6 anymore. These are SO much better football games but with just one fundamental issue. Have you find any methods to increase fouls yourself? Discuss.
 
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geeeeee

Console not PC! Mods & patches mean nothing to me!
2 May 2010
London
Tottenham Hotspur
Hi El Pajaro, yes i do remember you and your adjustments. You helped me get more years out of PES5 with the idea of decreasing Ability or Agility. Really good to see you back. :)

Yeh i agree totally with your post about the fouls. I was getting a few (not a lot) in FIFA 18 but then i think they changed it with a patch and now i get between 1 and none.

Are you on PC? As i don’t think there is an editor for PS4. Sorry i cant add any input with ideas unless there is an editor for PS4 so i can experiment.

Recently i have discovered PES2008 the PS2 version which i now find better than PES5 (with global adjustments) which was a big surprise. There are fouls in that and even in Exhibition matches.
 

fmicablues7

Premiership
15 July 2013
These are just MY observations and opinions and I'd just want to have discussion about this. There's no way I can go back to PES5 and PES6 anymore. These are SO much better football games but with just one fundamental issue. Have you find any methods to increase fouls yourself? Discuss.
One fundamental issue ? These games lack so much things compared to ps2 pes ! All the players feel the same in newer generation of pes (post-2013) and fifa never got individuality right.

Really, even pes 2011 which was bug-ridden as hell, is better than newer pes and fifa.
 

Madmac79

Premiership
11 September 2006
Pes 2017 actually had an acceptable number of fouls imho, especially because CPU was way less terminator and perfect than this year. And because they often became more aggressive reacting to the result/condition of the match. It was quite nice even variety wise and I honestly miss this a lot in 2018.

This year they just didn't nail it in my opinion, but it depends on many factors. I don't think it's something fixable by us at the actual state of things.. and my fear is that in the future this isn't gonna change the way we'd like it to do. The only thing I hope is that they'll include some kind of referee/fouls severity slider or option or whatever as you already said..
 

El Pajaro

Championship
14 May 2008
One fundamental issue ? These games lack so much things compared to ps2 pes ! All the players feel the same in newer generation of pes (post-2013) and fifa never got individuality right.

Really, even pes 2011 which was bug-ridden as hell, is better than newer pes and fifa.
Lack of fouls is just as fundamental as creating a hockey game without minor penalties. Or a boxing game that doesn't have knockouts at all. It's just NUTS. And the reviewers give it 5/5 stars and call it "perfect football game". How can it be perfect when it doesn't even simulate the real sport accurately?

Lots of people have requested more sliders. But they simply don't want to put them in. At least FIFA has a lot of ai sliders and FIFA 16 actually plays pretty damn well with these settings.

https://forums.operationsports.com/...ders/855682-fifa-16-os-community-sliders.html

But FIFAs don't have fouls, either. FIFA 18 is the worst actually. In FIFA 16 you might get 3 fouls per game. In 18 there' s ZERO. Lol.
 

Topaz

Programmer/TheAwesomeGem
21 October 2011
United States
Chelsea, Spain
I get average 10-15 fouls every game on 10 mins halves in my FIFA 17 modded game. Really enjoying it! Especially the derby matches always ends up with atleast 2 red cards.
 

El Pajaro

Championship
14 May 2008
I get average 10-15 fouls every game on 10 mins halves in my FIFA 17 modded game. Really enjoying it! Especially the derby matches always ends up with atleast 2 red cards.
Cool. Are you talking about the PC version? How did you increase the fouls?

I'm interested as I find FIFA 16 and 17 pretty good.
 

El Pajaro

Championship
14 May 2008
After playing these games more now I can say that FIFA 16 and 17 are superior to PES 2017 and 2018. I never thought I could say that, having been a die-hard PES guy since PES 3. The atmosphere and flow is SO much more realistic on FIFA when you use those excellent community sliders.

In newer PES games there's just no way to have rugged, low scoring games like in WE9/PES5 and PES6. The CPU "comeback engine" is just too strong. I have never played a 0-0 game in PES but have had two in FIFAs already.

I wish I could get more fouls in. I tried GPet Ultra Simulation for FIFA 17 (which should have Fidel's tweaks) but couldn't get any fouls. The only way to get 'em is to use a sliding tackle. In FIFA 16 I get 2-3 CPU fouls per game though which are usually reds or yellows. Hmm... what setting are you using Topaz?
 

Lexypoooo

League 2
15 April 2017
Thing is, Konami know about this issue and even claimed that the latest official patch would address the lack of fouls. That was apparently a lie though. I'm just hoping we get a decent alternative to PES and FIFA one day.
 

El Pajaro

Championship
14 May 2008
Thing is, Konami know about this issue and even claimed that the latest official patch would address the lack of fouls. That was apparently a lie though. I'm just hoping we get a decent alternative to PES and FIFA one day.
Yes. There are no fouls in PES 2018, even after the patch. Why did they say that this is fixed is beyond me. Maybe they just want to be NASTY on purpose. Haha.

Too bad you can't change the referee on FIFA 16 and 17 anymore. Choosing the referee from the game options is still in FIFA 14 (and maybe 15 too). Refs had different strictness level. Like in PES5 that japanese ref Kazyki (or whatever) was the strictest.

Sometimes I just don't understand these companies. Users have requested one simple "referee strictness" slider for YEARS. But they just don't put it in. That's just amazing. We have no fouls. No ffffffff....king fouls in a football "simulation".

What's also amazing in FIFA 16 that you have so great and longish cutscenes during the game. But when the penalty shootout occurs it goes through in seconds. You'd think that users would like to experience the genuine suspense, thrill and excitement of the penalties with replays and player emotions. But no... it has to be like in Commodore 64 arcade football game from the eighties. Haha.
 

El Pajaro

Championship
14 May 2008
Thanks mate.

As much as I respect and love those vintage titles I don't think I can go back playing those anymore. FIFA 16 and 17 with community sliders are superior in so many other aspects.
 

MadbaLL

Interista per sempre!
11 February 2008
"Curva Nord"
Inter Milan
i understand your point...

but i still play them (have we7i, pes4, pes5 and pes6 all installed on my pc) because i still love that gameplay, also big reason i play them is because i love retro seasons with all those great players and true stars of this game (like vintage total conversion mod for nhl04).
 

El Pajaro

Championship
14 May 2008
Yes indeed. I always went back to them as well. Widescreen mod, global gameplay settings and brilliant mods gave them many extra years. But some things have been done SO much better in new FIFAs.

NHL04, however, still has some elements that new hockey games can't quite capture. And there are several of them. However, new titles are superior in other ways. And there are no titles for PC.

PS: Speaking of hockey, check out PS2 emu if you have a decent machine. NHL 2K titles run well on it.
http://z15.invisionfree.com/NHL04Rebuilt/index.php?showtopic=5702
 

El Pajaro

Championship
14 May 2008
I doubt it. W7 is probably ok but other than that you need a modern machine and modern NVidia graphics card.
 

TakeshiRG

League 2
4 November 2015
Very interesting mate!
The lack of foul is the reason why i still have not started to play Pes2018 seriously.
Given that: i play 20 minutes Superstar level, i can't play at all at Top Player 'cause i find it way too simple to score... and me too always tweak globally the stats, i had a lot of fun with Pes 2017 (7-8 fouls per match and 3-4 penalties per season).
I tried your suggestion in Pes 2018 and what the hell.. 7 minutes , 4 fouls by the CPU!
I had to stop the match unfortunately, and now it seems that the effect has disappeared... no fouls, as before.
That's a very weird recurrent fact that's driving me mad on testing Pes: tweaking dt18, or sometimes using Nesa's genious tools to decrease speed or reaction... sometimes i find a noticeable effect during the first match of test... then the effects disappear... just like the Exe overwrite the modifies, especially during a Master League when scripting is recurrent...
What about you? Did you ever experienced the same thing?
 

El Pajaro

Championship
14 May 2008
I gave up playing PES after I got FIFA 16 and 17 (with community sliders). They're better games. They have no fouls, either, but at least I don't have to bear with the crazy comeback logic and cheating CPU. Yeah CPU is cheating a bit on FIFAs too but it's not that ridiculous.

I played one cup tournament in PES 2017 and found that all problems get even worse. Games are total scorefests. Sad to say but PES 2017 and 2018 are potentially very good games but they have been ruined completely. And not being able to adjust anything is just plain idiotic. I'm done with them. If I want some arcade action, I'll load up MAME and play Donkey Kong or Pac-Man. :D

PES5 and PES6 are not in the same level with new PES in most areas but I totally understand why people still play them.
 

TakeshiRG

League 2
4 November 2015
My friend, i don't try Fifa just because i'm lazy to "learn" new mechanisms and a new game in general, so i can't answer back about it... but "have no fouls either" for me is a good reason not to try it, as for me it's the main problem.
Anyqay i have to tell you that with Pes 2017 i found a good formula and a fantastic gameplay, with a lot of 0-0, realistic pace, customizable, at least 7-8 fouls per 20 minutes game (even without your "99 physical contact" solution), and 3-4 penalties per season, talking about Superstar mode.

I found it mainly tweaking stats as you do, especially concerning defence (if you are still curious try to "pump up" +10 defensive prowness, and/or decrease -20 Finishing and Long Ball, and increasing a bit some stats of Central Backs and GKeepers as you like.

The Sider - Live cpk tool of Nesa and Juce was Great for a lot of things, i love it about Game speed changing, and also the ball physics, weight and speed, and the player reaction in general... and it allows you to have random settings during the match, so you can really have a lot of unespected combinations, mistakes in kicking the ball and a lot of casual situations you can feel in a real game.

I found a nice solution for Pes2018 too, but the lack of fouls, the "cursor bug" and the retarded defenders are making me wonder about coming back to Pes2017 with an updated OF or patch
 

Uladar

Football romantic
16 November 2009
Minsk, Belarus
Seleção Brasileira
Hi, TakeshiRG. Thank you for your posts reviving my lost hopes about PES2017 and all PES serie. Please, could you give the detailed descriprion of your gameplay formulas?
 

TakeshiRG

League 2
4 November 2015
Hi, TakeshiRG. Thank you for your posts reviving my lost hopes about PES2017 and all PES serie. Please, could you give the detailed descriprion of your gameplay formulas?
At now Pes2018 i'm still testing, but i found a good equilirium, alays talking about Superstar level and very low speed (using Nesa tool, i guess about -4 ingame speed).
I think everyone should find his own equilibrium, anyway: here's a possible base to start editing yor own personal gameplay.

There are a lot of changes and every one has a deep sense and i can explain it all, so if you have some doubt about anything just ask
EDIT mods:

ALL PLAYERS: +15 Devensive prowess (* for 122 players with 85 and more Def Prowess you should add the exceeding units in this order: 1.Ball Recovery 2. Physical contact 3. Jump 4. Explosive power), -25 Finishing, -25 Loft pass -25 Header, -30 Spin). Optional: Weak Foot Usage = 4, Weak Foot ability = 1
ALL GKeepers: Offensive Gks, Form=8, +10 body control, jump, explosive power, +20 kicking power
ALL Central Defenders: +5 Jump, Body Control and Physical contact, +3 explosive power, Form =8

NESA APP: GAMEPLAY SPEED= 24300

I'm playng with Kilay Option File, that influences the tactics with ALL Offensive Pressing style for all teams, and the midfielders position setted to guarantee a bit more CPU possession to avoid continuous counter attacks .

Now i'm testing a Player Reaction decreasing with Nesa tool , setting it to 4,67

Due to some side effects of it, i did some other changes:

GKs: further +10 explosive pover, Body control, Jump; further +20 hysical contact; +10 Coverage, Reflexes
Central Backs: further +5 Jump
Lateral backs : +10 Jump

I'm still fighting to get more CPU fouls, but it's difficult to get more than 5 in a 20 minutes game.



About Pes 2017, if you are interested to it i should open an edit file and match the stats with original ones, as it was a more detailed work, but in general i had a lot of fouls and 3-4 penalties per season, i still don't understand if it was only me or everyone has this feedbacks about fouls.
Anyway i used to set the "non possession formation" of every against team the more back possible... so i had very defensive games .
 
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TakeshiRG

League 2
4 November 2015
At now, the less traumatic way to increase fouls is to set all opponents style to "The Destroyer" (that works for ALL THE ROLES, not only for CMs and DMs), decreasing "player reaction" and "speed" by Nesa's tool, and maybe for lower Game levels as Pro, using Parham dt18 (better the Incas36 modded one).
It has some side effect obviously, but for me there is not much problems has:
1. Superstar level has a lot of CPU cheat, so the player's style is relative... the Forward will be Goal Poacher when CPU will need it, as well as the "hole players" or the "offensive backs".
2. I do allways only the first season of Master League, setting my team in the last slot of the corrispective League structure, to have a realistic sequence of home and away games, and i can't bear to have a 2nd season with sequences like: "home home away away away away home away home home home away away away" and other Konami shit; so i have no problem with player progress or player transfers: at January, when i need a new player, i create it as new one Copying base from the one i need, and if he could be a possible opponent during the 2nd half of the season, i first buy him, then closing his contract the last negotiations day.

I'm having a nice fun with my actual personal settings, just fighting against a side effect concerning the low catch miss of goalkeepers as you can see AT THE END of this video


I would like not to increase player reactions, as it gives a lot of random rebounds, wrong crosses and passes, and so on, that make you really feel the casuality of a real game (i hate Pes remote controlled balls)
 

El Pajaro

Championship
14 May 2008
What is that "destroyer" style? Is it defined in the roster editor? Can you set it globally for all players?

Are these for PES 2018 only?
 

TakeshiRG

League 2
4 November 2015
What is that "destroyer" style? Is it defined in the roster editor? Can you set it globally for all players?

Are these for PES 2018 only?
The Destroyer is the most "aggressive" player style compatible for Central and Defensive Midfielders... tell me what language do you speak, so maybe i can help you more.
Or check Kevin Strootman (Roma), he's "The Destroyer" in Player Style.
Yep of course, you can assign it globally for all players with Ejogc Editor.
But i suggest you to deactivate it then in Goalkeepers at least (i set al GK's as Offensive Goalkeepers, and increase their Power Shot to 99, avoiding short clearances, any doubts about it just ask).

P.S. : in the first two matches of test, i noticed a great increase of aggressivity in ALL players, even Forwards and "lateral" players, then... as it happened previously for other testings... it seems that CPU script override all it... and mainly only central and defensive midfielders do fouls (anyway, fouls increase is very good).
So i'm wondering to set all the Midfield line players to Central Midfielders when out of possess, and also one of the 2 forwards when are 2 of them... as i told before the CPU script in Superstar avoid "external" changes to the formation on affecting in negative the CPU teamwork , so doing that CPU would'nt be easier to beat and you have potentially more players inclined to fouls.
 
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TakeshiRG

League 2
4 November 2015
After a stressing session of test, i state that the definitive threshold in Player Reaction to avoid the bug of low catch in Goalkeepers is 4,683.
Unfortunately it gives less of random rebounds and wrong passes... and to nerf pass abilities is kind of useless, as stats are a bit fake, especially in Superstar level: for example, as you know i set down all Long Passes 30 units and Finishing 25 units down, but CPU players are still very good in Long balls and scoring....
Anyway: it's always better than "vanilla" player reaction.

But the real solution would be someone able to edit the exe and tweak the frequency of tackles and hard plays by defenders, as well as something against scripting that makes every game very "flat" of emotions.
 

incas36

International
4 November 2015
I don' understand Takeshi: you want a more strictly play by defenders (beyond tweaks tackles obviously ).? Less space for dribbling?
 

TakeshiRG

League 2
4 November 2015
I don' understand Takeshi: you want a more strictly play by defenders (beyond tweaks tackles obviously ).? Less space for dribbling?
I need fouls... more fouls... at now i ca'nt feel real football!
In Pes2017 i had great fun, got several penalties sjut with defenders trying to intercept a pass or a low cross... or just after randomized collision (elbow against face, and so on).
So, just to make some example:
less reaction= delay in tackle = more fouls
"The destroyer"= more aggressivity = more tackles and collisions
 
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