Manual Passing BLEW MY MIND: PES 2020 Realism Upgrade

ultra1312 said:
And another amnazing goal from a manual cross on the same night!


@The_Knight has changed my PES gaming forever with his videos :D
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That's an incredible goal. One of the best things about manual crossing is that the ball frequently lands behind your players, prompting a bicycle kick. I feel that if I don't make the progress I want with manual shooting, I'll move back to advanced because manual is just too hard!
 
ultra1312 said:
Here we go then for my best ever header in PES game, I love the way he meets the ball.

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yes, header animations and how the player moves towards the ball, how they "hang in"... and how different approaches trigger different animations... let alone the scrubbed header... ! good stuff here!
 
Chris Davies said:
Yeah, I've always been Team "Manual Makes Attributes Meaningless", but after persisting with manual for a few days on 2020, it's clear to me that I was wrong and PA0 is not fully manual.

(Otherwise I would be missing a LOT more passes - you can use the manual pass modifier, which is R1 or R2 by default I think, to see the "actual" manual line and compare it with your PA0 pass.)

I also felt the AI did actually react to your control settings, and that pass accuracy was lower. UNTIL, I played the team at the bottom of the league and they ended the first half with 94% pass accuracy. Now I'm not so sure.

On manual, I can't play with the freedom I should be able to, having decent players. Matches don't look like real Premier League or Championship matches - they look like slow, careful, laggy kickarounds with no special moments. (On PA1+, they're all basketball games, counters back and forth and back and forth. Neither is good. IMO.)

The game (sometimes) adds a second's lag to your input on any input method - add the delay of manual passing to that and it feels a million miles from real football to me.

Yes, it feels great to pull off a through pass and know it was (mostly) all you, and the same when scoring (I scored a goal that wouldn't be possible on assisted shooting, from a tight angle, right into the corner, and it felt great).

But is it football, only choosing easy passes and giving away possession constantly (every match)? When you're a high quality team? I don't think so.

Full manual might be fun - but it's not football (or even realism). It's something else. Just like eSports football IS NOT football. Fun, maybe. But no representation of what professional football is.
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I've been catching up on your podcasts Chris, and really enjoying them, because so many of your views and experiences resonate with my own, but where we differ, is on manual passing. With that in mind, I'd urge you give it another (longer) go.

I started on manual passing (from PA1 in the later games) because I always hated it when some passes went to the "wrong player" (one that I hadn't intended). This could be in quite a different direction from where the stick was pointed. Yes that might be because the weight of the pass was off, but it still felt wrong. Coupled with 360 degree movement meant that on manual you could also pass around opposition players, rather than directly to the feet of your own team, and into space (if you got it right).

For me, that makes playing on manual much more realistic, but I do agree with you that it's not fully unassisted. And yes, although the AI do misplace some passes even on higher skill levels, a few more mis-placed passes would be better, especially with weaker teams.

Switching to manual takes time, at least as far as I was concerned. I had days when I would go back to PA1 in frustration, but the problems with it were still there of course, and fairly quickly, the advantages of PA1 were outweighed by those of manual, and going back to assisted passing at that stage felt almost like a disadvantage, and much less enjoyable. At least now, when I make a mistake, it feels like my mistake in most cases.

I'm only an average player at best, but I think that manual passing makes for a better, more rewarding PES experience. Even a cut-back goal requires some skill on manual, and hats off to anyone who can do ping-pong passing!
 
andyaim said:
I've been catching up on your podcasts Chris, and really enjoying them, because so many of your views and experiences resonate with my own, but where we differ, is on manual passing. With that in mind, I'd urge you give it another (longer) go.

I started on manual passing (from PA1 in the later games) because I always hated it when some passes went to the "wrong player" (one that I hadn't intended). This could be in quite a different direction from where the stick was pointed. Yes that might be because the weight of the pass was off, but it still felt wrong. Coupled with 360 degree movement meant that on manual you could also pass around opposition players, rather than directly to the feet of your own team, and into space (if you got it right).

For me, that makes playing on manual much more realistic, but I do agree with you that it's not fully unassisted. And yes, although the AI do misplace some passes even on higher skill levels, a few more mis-placed passes would be better, especially with weaker teams.

Switching to manual takes time, at least as far as I was concerned. I had days when I would go back to PA1 in frustration, but the problems with it were still there of course, and fairly quickly, the advantages of PA1 were outweighed by those of manual, and going back to assisted passing at that stage felt almost like a disadvantage, and much less enjoyable. At least now, when I make a mistake, it feels like my mistake in most cases.

I'm only an average player at best, but I think that manual passing makes for a better, more rewarding PES experience. Even a cut-back goal requires some skill on manual, and hats off to anyone who can do ping-pong passing!
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good comment, imo!
i've been saying that for years! glad i'm not alone!

keep working on your manual skills mate! :TU:
 
ultra1312 said:
I have no idea how to do shooting I tried it and I was kicking it out for throw ins :P:BORED:
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Shooting is A LOT HARDER to master because of how infrequent shooting chances are compared to passing the ball around, which by comparison happens all the time during the game. Plus, players will move to a pass if it's away from them, but the goal stands still if the shot is away from it. Finally, you have a much smaller angle to aim at when shooting.
 
The_Knight said:
Shooting is A LOT HARDER to master because of how infrequent shooting chances are compared to passing the ball around, which by comparison happens all the time during the game. Plus, players will move to a pass if it's away from them, but the goal stands still if the shot is away from it. Finally, you have a much smaller angle to aim at when shooting.
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finesse shooting is the hardest i would say especially whilst using broadcast cam
 
andyaim said:
Switching to manual takes time, at least as far as I was concerned. I had days when I would go back to PA1 in frustration, but the problems with it were still there of course, and fairly quickly, the advantages of PA1 were outweighed by those of manual, and going back to assisted passing at that stage felt almost like a disadvantage, and much less enjoyable.
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This.

You simply cant switch to manual in few days. In order to learn how to run you need to learn to walk first.

Statement that playing on manual is not football is odd and a bit hurtful.
Manual gives you countless options how to play the game. But you simply cannot judge it after a few days. It takes months of practice.

I was the same. For over two ML seasons I was on a rollercoaster of frustration and amazement. I had matches, where I would rage quit and restart the match on PA1, just to go back to manual at half time.
After a while - even goals scored on PA1 felt dull and cheated.

Eventually I found myself not switching at all. Then came Advanced through balls and that opened a new saga of frustration and amazement.

At some point your matches will not only look like football, but they will be much closer to football then what you get on PA1, where you are being constantly limited by only few ways that you can pass the ball.
You will never be able to play unpredictable ball into space, where no one is around, the way best players do, unless you are on manual. The game opens up and manual becomes a huge advantage.

I get that it might not be a preferable way to play for some, but saying its not football its not really a fair statement.
 
Emroth said:
I get that it might not be a preferable way to play for some, but saying its not football its not really a fair statement.
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Manual passing I agree with you, how it opens up so many more options of where you can play the ball etc. I still think PA1 is more realistic for some short/quick passing but I definitely see the value in what you can do on manual and play on PA0 myself.

Manual shooting on the other hand, I think is nonsense and not realistic at all. It doesn't open up more possibilities in the same way as passing.

It's not more realistic to have the 'freedom' to make your player aim away from the goal. No footballer ever aims off target in real life (unless they're match fixing). Their intention is always to shoot inside the goal (like basic/advanced), and if the shot isn't on target then it's because the contact on the ball wasn't good.

If we want realism or 'football' then we should want shots to miss the target because of factors like player stats/balance/footedness/pressure etc... Not having £100m strikers put the ball wide just because the left stick was 5 degrees off. Manual shooting is there to test thumb twiddling 'gamer skills' rather than helping to simulate football.

If there were somehow a situation where a manual shot would make sense, you could still perform one by holding L2 anyway even when set to basic/advanced shooting.
 
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rojofa said:
Manual passing I agree with you, how it opens up so many more options of where you can play the ball etc. I still think PA1 is more realistic for some short/quick passing but I definitely see the value in manual and play on PA0 myself.

Manual shooting on the other hand, I think is nonsense and not realistic at all. It doesn't open up more possibilities in the same way as passing.
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Yes, I agree. I never said anything about manual shooting. I had only PA0 in mind when I was writing this.
Manual shooting can be fun and enjoyable, but Pes shooting in general is very bad and limited and variety that you gain from Manual shooting is odd and quite often doesnt feel right.
 
The only reason why I've moved away from PA0 since Pes 19 (started out on PA0 though) is that responsiveness is so much lower Vs PA1.
When switching players it's always a matter of waking them up,that's not an issue when playing PA1.
This has changed over the years,started to be noticeable on Pes 18 and is getting worse every year.
That and a shitty TS on ML makes PA0 pretty bad on TP and difficulties above.
Didn't have that issue when I started out on Pes 13 with PA0.

But,still love the freedom of if,being able to pin point passes wherever you want etc
 
I've spent virtually a full year trying to find my happy with this game. I'm a full manual player but manual is even assisted this year. Where do you guys stand with things like auto-feint and tackling etc?

Also, game speed and difficulty etc?
 
I wish I could set headers to manual and shooting to basic. Headers can be awesome on manual (they were completely broken at one point or was that PES 19? I forget now), but the problem I find with manual shooting is that some of the shots are great and extremely satisfying, but then I do this wrong foot rocket and it just looks off. Basic shooting at least has a semblance of wrong foot inaccuracy. I do quite like the odd fuma match online, though.

The challenge with manual passing this year is that I can absolutely nail a pass within an inch and the game will still think I meant to pass to someone else, so the meant to be receiving player who is basically brushing against the ball with his feet will just drift away and somone 20 yards away will be struggling to gather the pass. This seems to happen a lot this year.
 
Isslander said:
I wish I could set headers to manual and shooting to basic. Headers can be awesome on manual (they were completely broken at one point or was that PES 19? I forget now), but the problem I find with manual shooting is that some of the shots are great and extremely satisfying, but then I do this wrong foot rocket and it just looks off. Basic shooting at least has a semblance of wrong foot inaccuracy. I do quite like the odd fuma match online, though.

The challenge with manual passing this year is that I can absolutely nail a pass within an inch and the game will still think I meant to pass to someone else, so the meant to be receiving player who is basically brushing against the ball with his feet will just drift away and somone 20 yards away will be struggling to gather the pass. This seems to happen a lot this year.
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Agreeing to the first part. Not seeing the second part playing the vanilla.

those wrong foot rockets are a mess. A lot of time i check on the stronger foot of a player mid game... and a lot of times its a letdown.
thats not what I meant when I said „rough edges“! That’s what I consider to be a mayor aspect of gameplay.
 
The_Knight said:
That's an incredible goal. One of the best things about manual crossing is that the ball frequently lands behind your players, prompting a bicycle kick. I feel that if I don't make the progress I want with manual shooting, I'll move back to advanced because manual is just too hard!
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Im using advanced now because its way better also you can actually score finesse shots
 
Tony_yeboah said:
Im using advanced now because its way better also you can actually score finesse shots
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Control the spin is the real problem with finesse shots on manual. They should make it simpler, i can only hit them in practice because AI won't give much time to adjust the direction on superstar difficulty.


And an old video that i make to post in Konami facebook suggestion page:

 
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5_Gullit said:
Control the spin is the real problem with finesse shots on manual. They should make it simpler, i can only hit them in practice because AI won't give much time to adjust the direction on superstar difficulty.


And an old video that i make to post in Konami facebook suggestion page:

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Thats why i switch to advance
 
Tony_yeboah said:
Th

Thats why i switch to advance
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5_Gullit said:
Control the spin is the real problem with finesse shots on manual. They should make it simpler, i can only hit them in practice because AI won't give much time to adjust the direction on superstar difficulty.


And an old video that i make to post in Konami facebook suggestion page:

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Honestly it's been several months now and I still can't score finesse shots on full manual. I'll keep trying till PES 2021 is out and if I'm not happy I'll just switch back to advanced.
 
The most imediate gripe with assisted passing is the AI tampering with a pass direction... (it's most obvious when you're directing the pass to the player that's positioned to your side and the AI instead turns it into a diagonal through ball) but fortunately there's L2 for that (wish it worked as a toggle instead though as pressing more than two buttons at once to make a pass (aside from aiming) is a PITA.
 
The_Knight said:
Honestly it's been several months now and I still can't score finesse shots on full manual. I'll keep trying till PES 2021 is out and if I'm not happy I'll just switch back to advanced.
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advanced just feels more realistic than manual. with manual pretty much every players shoots like rockets, no matter which foot. also sometimes the animation is missing and the shot looks like a pass. and the most important thing: you can't really do intentional low shots like this one:


i don't think this finish (downward shot) would be possible with manual or basic. yes it could happen, but you can't tell the game to do it without advanced. (aiming away from goal)

another example of a beautiful low shot with advanced:

 
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