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Mighty Greece crumbling down

Mauras

Premiership
7 October 2002
So...

The gods of soccer don't sleep.

Many greek pals saw lack of fair play on some comments were people criticized the fashion in which Greece national team won the Euro cup.

Now it seems pretty evident that people were right.

Furtunately I was wrong when I predicted that the Greece model would bring a less bright future on european soccer.

Greece is paying dearly for it's anti-soccer approach, as it's becoming evident they don't have the class of a true champion. A true champion might even opt for defensive soccer, but when playing less powerful teams that team must be able to take command of the game and delivering.

Doesn't seem that way about Greece. Hope they miss qualify and hope their example is this way abandoned by smaller teams, so we can have nice fluid soccer once again.

Last night i saw a "greek" Estonia playing with 11 men behind the ball, making a wall out of their defensive line. Untill they got the first goal at minute 75. Then they took another 3 scuds just to make mends.

Pitty Greece didn't go through that when they played more than deserving Czech Republic... at this point we would surely have a more positive european champion.
 

Revan

out the window
8 August 2003
Madeira, Portugal.
FC Porto
lol 5 mis ago i made a reference to that!

Mauras said:
Greece is paying dearly for it's anti-soccer approach, as it's becoming evident they don't have the class of a true champion. A true champion might even opt for defensive soccer, but when playing less powerful teams that team must be able to take command of the game and delivering.
like i said b4 they only earned the respect of other teams, and so every1 playing agains them is giving their best... the outcome? greece looses even against medium-low level teams. GREECE MADE A GOOD IMITATION OF ITALY's CATENACIO! nothing more!
but i do respect them cause they did win ya know! ;)

Mauras said:
Doesn't seem that way about Greece. Hope they miss qualify and hope their example is this way abandoned by smaller teams, so we can have nice fluid soccer once again.
agreed, i hate defensive football! would be a good example!

Mauras said:
Last night i saw a "greek" Estonia playing with 11 men behind the ball, making a wall out of their defensive line. Untill they got the first goal at minute 75. Then they took another 3 scuds just to make mends.
lol, the game against Portugal, i hate when i see games like that, cause they play not for the draw or a lucky counter-attack goal, but they just try not to get many goals!

let's see how they go on the next round!
 
G

ghazi

Guest
Everything you said about Greece playing unattractive and defensive football is true. . . but that is precisely why their run was so remarkable. Because you would not expect a team like that to consistently win over attacking teams over the course of an entire tournament.. . . but they did.

In the Final, they had 1 shot on the frame of the goal for the whole damn game. . . but they made it count. meanwhile Portugal has several, but none went in.

again - that is what makes their run so remarkable. It is unlikely to win a single game that way, and it is more unlikely to win a whole damn tournament that way.

That's why their success was so special. it is also why most rational people would not expect them to repeat that kind of success any time soon.
 

Fred_Gavioes

Brazilian showman
19 February 2003
Lowell/Massachusetts/USA
CORINTHIANS and BRASIL
ghazi said:
Everything you said about Greece playing unattractive and defensive football is true. . . but that is precisely why their run was so remarkable. Because you would not expect a team like that to consistently win over attacking teams over the course of an entire tournament.. . . but they did.

In the Final, they had 1 shot on the frame of the goal for the whole damn game. . . but they made it count. meanwhile Portugal has several, but none went in.

again - that is what makes their run so remarkable. It is unlikely to win a single game that way, and it is more unlikely to win a whole damn tournament that way.

That's why their success was so special. it is also why most rational people would not expect them to repeat that kind of success any time soon.
great post for an american lol :P
 

Stasman

League 2
17 May 2003
Look at it this way. What have Portugal ever won? And what have Greece won? And we didn't beat you once in your own country, oh no, we did it TWICE. Tactics are part of football fools, its not just 'play pretty football it doesn't matter if we win or lose'. We played to our strengths and won.

Yeh, maybe we did lose to Albania, thats one fucking game, what does that mean? France drew with Israel, they are crap and their whole team is crumbling :roll:
 

Revan

out the window
8 August 2003
Madeira, Portugal.
FC Porto
Stasman said:
Look at it this way. What have Portugal ever won? And what have Greece won? And we didn't beat you once in your own country, oh no, we did it TWICE. Tactics are part of football fools, its not just 'play pretty football it doesn't matter if we win or lose'. We played to our strengths and won.

Yeh, maybe we did lose to Albania, thats one fucking game, what does that mean? France drew with Israel, they are crap and their whole team is crumbling :roll:
can't take criticism!?
Tactits are for football fools...?!? Greece won by using tatical mastery! :roll:
playing defensively needs a good tactic to work! :|
Like ghazi said,
ghazi said:
it is also why most rational people would not expect them to repeat that kind of success any time soon.
pretty football is what makes the game so good! great moves and great goals!

i'll say it again, greece won, and won the respect, but that is what is making them go down!
 

Revan

out the window
8 August 2003
Madeira, Portugal.
FC Porto
Stasman said:
France drew with Israel, they are crap and their whole team is crumbling :roll:
maybe so, but they have to players to get back on their own two feet!
France is a school of great players, a couple more will appear.


Regarding the french team:
Makelele as quit the french national side! He said he only stayed there cause Vieira was injured, but now he is going away!
 

Stasman

League 2
17 May 2003
grav3digg3r said:
Stasman said:
Look at it this way. What have Portugal ever won? And what have Greece won? And we didn't beat you once in your own country, oh no, we did it TWICE. Tactics are part of football fools, its not just 'play pretty football it doesn't matter if we win or lose'. We played to our strengths and won.

Yeh, maybe we did lose to Albania, thats one fucking game, what does that mean? France drew with Israel, they are crap and their whole team is crumbling :roll:
can't take criticism!?
Tactits are for football fools...?!? Greece won by using tatical mastery! :roll:
playing defensively needs a good tactic to work! :|
Like ghazi said,
ghazi said:
it is also why most rational people would not expect them to repeat that kind of success any time soon.
pretty football is what makes the game so good! great moves and great goals!

i'll say it again, greece won, and won the respect, but that is what is making them go down!
Hmmm, can't take criticism aye? How about Portugal are the most over-rated team in International football (along with thier Spanish neighbours) and have never won anything. Sure, they had the odd good player, but all they seem to go on about is winning a Youth Championship 15 years ago. I can imagine the uproar that awaits me now :roll: .

I didn't say they were gonna do that again, its almost impossible... just i don't think they are being given credit for their absolutely titanic achievement.

Now you lot kid yourselves and say 'they didn't deserve to win it, they didn't play sexy attacking football blah blah blah', but sexy attacking football so rarely wins you trophies. Rehhagel's tactics weren't all defense, or else how can we get into their half and score? Anyone who tells me what Rehhagel pulled off in Portugal was not a stroke of genius need to get their heads checked i'm afraid. He took a bunch of aging nobody's who were benchwarmers for Europe's 'average' clubs, and made them become the best team in Europe. How? It had nothing to do with tactics?

You go on about boring football and Greece just defended their way to the trophy, but it doesn't matter, cos the trophy is ours for the next four years. We earned it fair and square, no-one could beat us.

Also, we haven't gone down at all! We lost one match, and everyone jumps on the bandwagon. Look at the group, its wide open, if we beat Denmark or Turkey, we will be in control.
 

Stasman

League 2
17 May 2003
Also, don't you think its a bit hypocritical of you to criticise Greece's 'defensive counter-attacking football', when you're a Porto fan. :roll: ;)
 

airjoca

International
29 July 2003
Amadora, Portugal
SL Benfica
Stasman said:
Also, don't you think its a bit hypocritical of you to criticise Greece's 'defensive counter-attacking football', when you're a Porto fan. :roll: ;)
I'm a Benfica fan, and i'll speak for Porto: Porto in the Portuguese league never plays counter attack football unless it's obvious (winning by a few goals), in CL League they played 'defensive counter-attacking football' some games, but not all games. Did you watch Porto - ManU? It was an avalanche of attacking footbal and Porto should've scored more than they did...
 

ClassicD

Galáctico
11 November 2001
Glasgow
Celtic
Greece couldn't win in their first 2 qualifying matches for Euro 2004, so it's a little early to say this is the 'true' Greece. Euro 2004, well I didn't enjoy watching Greece play, but like the man says nobody could beat them, and Portugal had one attempt more than everybody else!
 

gerd

Retired Footballer
8 January 2002
Over the moon
KRC Genk, Spurs
Mauras said:
Many greek pals saw lack of fair play on some comments were people criticized the fashion in which Greece national team won the Euro cup.
And the lack of fair-play goes on....
Greece deserved to win EURO 2004. That their football was attractive or not has nothing to do with the fact that they deserved to win. The other teams had the opportunity to beat them and they didn't. And like Classic said, Portugal had two chances to beat them...

If Greece is as weak as you say, well that reflects badly on all the teams they beat in EURO 2004 and most of all on Portugal who got beaten twice.

I supported Portugal and i like their attractive football, but face it guys, the Portugese national team are a bunch of under-achievers.

And one other thing, to me Porto deserved to win the CL, but they weren't exactly the most attractive either, i didn't hear you guys complain then...

Just face it: the grapes are very, very sour...
 

Revan

out the window
8 August 2003
Madeira, Portugal.
FC Porto
Stasman said:
I didn't say they were gonna do that again, its almost impossible... just i don't think they are being given credit for their absolutely titanic achievement.
i already said more than twice that o do give credit for them to win, and they did win fair and square. The credits for the victory in Euro2004 should all go for the coach! ;)

About porto counter attack... that show little knowledge bout the team, Porto played counter attacking football in the final against monaco. Porto against teams like RM or Man Utd played attacking football, and in the league they rarely used defensive football!

in all of this i'm just saying i don't like the unnactratice type of football they played, but they won and i give them credit for it!

bout attacking football rarely winning, look at last 3 or five big competitions.

WC98 - France
EURO2000- France - in both they played fantastic football! IMO
WC2002 - Brazil - loved to watch them play, expecially Ronaldo and Rivaldo, and Ronaldinho!

I respect your opinion, just respect mine. no need for war! :)
 

Stasman

League 2
17 May 2003
Lol, i ain't trying to start a war, just a good ole lively debate ;) .

Gerd, FD and Classic have pretty much got it summed up. Its sour grapes. Why are you lot so hellbent on us losing? You wouldn't see a Greek fan making a thread if Portugal lost a match.

Do you really think that when the players are there, they care about trying to excite the fans with attractive football? Not a chance, they're on that pitch to win the match.

Also, i don't watch the Portuguese league, but against Manchester Utd in the 2nd leg they weren't exactly going full out attacking were they? :roll: Also the first semi-final, and the final, and a couple of other matches. If they tried to play the 'fantasy football' that you are so obsessed about, i guarantee you they wouldn't have got anywhere.

If Greece is as weak as you say, well that reflects badly on all the teams they beat in EURO 2004 and most of all on Portugal who got beaten twice.
A great point by Gerd there, if we are as poor as everyone (well, the Portuguese sour losers) say, then what does that make the teams we beat?

Face it boys, you just upset because the one chance you had of winning a trophy (even though it was in your own country) went to bits. Now you just want to see us fail. All seems very sad and bitter to me.
 

Mauras

Premiership
7 October 2002
Statsman,

I will not follow the missile exchange way :).

I understand your point of view but in my opinion it was not only the albania game.

Failing to even score at home, against a Turkey side which although powerful in theory didn't make it to the Euro is surely a very bad start for a side facing teams like Ucrania, Turkey and Denmark.

I will not go over the final cause in my opinion my Portugal got what it deserve in a game in which Scolari should had been as daunting as he was against England.

My question is about the soccer I love. And for the soccer I love and the soccer I wish to see in the future is great to see sides playing the greek way being thrown out, just like Italy was too (although those have even less excuse, having enough talent to play differently).

I predicted a dark age and I'm just glad that this run from Greece will make some managers think twice.

Anyway one must also agree that a true champion cannot just deliver the kind of results Greece delivered these 2 games. If Greece doesn't deliver now, with excited filled home crowds and players still hailed by their feats when will they?

And for those who argue that the only way a smaller national team can win a major tourney is playing like Greece players just a name: Denmark 1992.
 

Revan

out the window
8 August 2003
Madeira, Portugal.
FC Porto
Stasman said:
A great point by Gerd there, if we are as poor as everyone (well, the Portuguese sour losers) say, then what does that make the teams we beat?
Using htat line of Thought , Portugal should have been already World Champion 5 times and a bunch more Euro Champions. Less than a year ago we beat Brazil 2-1. :roll:

Stasman said:
Face it boys, you just upset because the one chance you had of winning a trophy (even though it was in your own country) went to bits. Now you just want to see us fail. All seems very sad and bitter to me.
no... simple some1 started a tread cause the European champions losed 1 easy game, and another they drawed against Turkey who wasn't even there (wich just 2 months difference from the EURO), not that turkey is an easy team, the are a hard side to beat!

Who have to look that now Greece belongs to the "champions league", and now wherever they play bad or good, they people will adress critics to them (wheter they are good or bad).
Even FIFA president said that Greece's victory was a bad omen, cause if every single team starts playing that way it will ruin the beauty of the game!

And I'm not a sour loser... don't put me in that "league" please!

It's only critics about their style of play, and I'm sorry to say i don't like those types of teams. I rarely see a full game of italy for example, cause most of the times they play all-out-defence! Don't like it... just a matter of taste. But of course there are people that are love tactical mastery in games (mosltly Italians, no critics 2 U folks :) ), and that is what greece used to win.
 

Stasman

League 2
17 May 2003
grav3digg3r said:
Stasman said:
A great point by Gerd there, if we are as poor as everyone (well, the Portuguese sour losers) say, then what does that make the teams we beat?
Using htat line of Thought , Portugal should have been already World Champion 5 times and a bunch more Euro Champions. Less than a year ago we beat Brazil 2-1. :roll:

quote]

Yeh, but no-one went and questioned Brazil's ability to perform at the highest level, whereas with Greece, it was fluke.

As for the FIFA president, he doesn't do jack shit to help the game. Thats the same guy who insists that 'women should wear tighter shorts' and 'we should abolish all draws'. You can't take this man seriously now, can you?

Football is not about attacking football, its all about tactics, especially at that sort of level. Attacking football is good to see, but defending is much more of an art. I'd rather see a scrappy 1-0 tactical war, rather than a 5-3 win with Ronaldinho doing 5 flip-flaps in a row. Thats not football, its just fantasy.

Answer this: Do you think the players and the managers go out on the pitch every week to 'make an exciting game', or to get the win?

Also, i think Deco needs to learn how to take a free-kick, cos he is fucking useless at them. He had at least 6 in the Euro from very dangerous positions, and they all hit the wall. Piss poor.
 

Revan

out the window
8 August 2003
Madeira, Portugal.
FC Porto
Stasman said:
I'd rather see a scrappy 1-0 tactical war, rather than a 5-3 win with Ronaldinho doing 5 flip-flaps in a row. Thats not football, its just fantasy.
u r gonna start hating football in no time with that kind of thinking!
I surely would love to see a 5-3 win, damm great game it would be.

But i can understand your opinion, u surely hate pele, maradona, zidane, platini, (long list).... U prefer watching a game with them (anyone) defending all the time, and winning the game in some rare attack they made during the game.
get a grip man, u just saying those things cause Greece won playing that way! I on the contrary can't stand watching those type games, i think you either, cause football is goals, without goals the game has no emotion, and football is emotion!
When a game is defensive i just change channel. Even if it his with the teams i support!
 

Stasman

League 2
17 May 2003
grav3digg3r said:
Stasman said:
I'd rather see a scrappy 1-0 tactical war, rather than a 5-3 win with Ronaldinho doing 5 flip-flaps in a row. Thats not football, its just fantasy.
u r gonna start hating football in no time with that kind of thinking!
I surely would love to see a 5-3 win, damm great game it would be.

But i can understand your opinion, u surely hate pele, maradona, zidane, platini, (long list).... U prefer watching a game with them (anyone) defending all the time, and winning the game in some rare attack they made during the game.
get a grip man, u just saying those things cause Greece won playing that way! I on the contrary can't stand watching those type games, i think you either, cause football is goals, without goals the game has no emotion, and football is emotion!
When a game is defensive i just change channel. Even if it his with the teams i support!
Well... you don't seem to understand football my friend. I doubt you've been to see a real game, it would be far too 'boring' for you ;)
 

polakis

PES - FIFA Greek master
10 May 2002
Athens,Greece
Aek Athens
It took only 2 MATCHES to say that?????
After 2 matches Greece is over???????
Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wait and you will see!!!With Albania we were very unlucky(if you see the goals you will know what i mean!)
And with turkey we deserved to win!!!!!!
Wait and you will see what greece can do!!!!!!!!!!!
:mrgreen:
 
D

Dime

Guest
Football's purpose is to entertain, and constantly watching 1-0 matches is not entertaining. Sometimes I love a 1-0 game, such as the Greece/Czech game, but only in moderation, and I'm sure if Portugal had beaten Holland 1-0 the Greece game wouldn't have been as interesting.

Different strokes for different folks though.
 

Revan

out the window
8 August 2003
Madeira, Portugal.
FC Porto
Stasman said:
grav3digg3r said:
Stasman said:
I'd rather see a scrappy 1-0 tactical war, rather than a 5-3 win with Ronaldinho doing 5 flip-flaps in a row. Thats not football, its just fantasy.
u r gonna start hating football in no time with that kind of thinking!
I surely would love to see a 5-3 win, damm great game it would be.

But i can understand your opinion, u surely hate pele, maradona, zidane, platini, (long list).... U prefer watching a game with them (anyone) defending all the time, and winning the game in some rare attack they made during the game.
get a grip man, u just saying those things cause Greece won playing that way! I on the contrary can't stand watching those type games, i think you either, cause football is goals, without goals the game has no emotion, and football is emotion!
When a game is defensive i just change channel. Even if it his with the teams i support!
Well... you don't seem to understand football my friend. I doubt you've been to see a real game, it would be far too 'boring' for you ;)
LOL just lol... fanatic blindness is something i don't get into!

just one thing to finish, i don't know the future, maybe greece will get qualified to wc2006 or maybe not. but get one thing straight, in this i was criticizing greeces style of play, it could have any other team, and i don't say they didin't deserved, they did, cause they won fair and square. If ya prefer watching 1-0 crappy games (u said it), it's up to you, and u r well served in that, cause greece usually plays to get that score.

cheers!
 

Stasman

League 2
17 May 2003
Dime said:
Football's purpose is to entertain, and constantly watching 1-0 matches is not entertaining. Sometimes I love a 1-0 game, such as the Greece/Czech game, but only in moderation, and I'm sure if Portugal had beaten Holland 1-0 the Greece game wouldn't have been as interesting.

Different strokes for different folks though.
This guy has hit the nail on the head here. 1-0 nail-biting thrillers aren't boring, these are the sort of matches football are about. Sure, its good to see a high scoring match once in a while, but you can't expect every match to be 5-4, cos it just ain't real.

That wasn't fantastic blindness at all, it just goes to show that you ain't a real football fan if you expect every game to be high scoring, or else 'its boring'. I don't think many fans that go and watch their team would agree with what you're saying.
 

Revan

out the window
8 August 2003
Madeira, Portugal.
FC Porto
Stasman said:
That wasn't fantastic blindness at all, it just goes to show that you ain't a real football fan if you expect every game to be high scoring, or else 'its boring'. I don't think many fans that go and watch their team would agree with what you're saying.
I never said i expected every game to go high scores! i said i prefer watching a 5-3 game than 1-0 cause 1-0 games happen more often!
Don't say that most of the 1-0 games are exciting, cause the'r not! a few only!
I'm a football fan and a show fan, and footbal is a show, players like Ronaldo(any of them), that create great moves make's the crowd get of their seats and cheer the game. D
Do you really think that a boring game of defensive style makes the crowd go wild(in a good way), or is great moves makes the stadium a party zone!?

this is my last post here.
don't come around and tell me i'm not a football fan... I am and i support 2 teams, Porto and Portugal, but one thing that makes me proud is that i can analyze opponents and say, they were better if they or even. Hell last night Porto tied 1-1 and i said to friend of mine that Porto was lucky they didn't lose!

U can't be neutral, u let your fanatism cloud your judgement of other teams...
 
V

vespa

Guest
Mauras said:
So...

The gods of soccer don't sleep.

Many greek pals saw lack of fair play on some comments were people criticized the fashion in which Greece national team won the Euro cup.

Now it seems pretty evident that people were right.

Furtunately I was wrong when I predicted that the Greece model would bring a less bright future on european soccer.

Greece is paying dearly for it's anti-soccer approach, as it's becoming evident they don't have the class of a true champion. A true champion might even opt for defensive soccer, but when playing less powerful teams that team must be able to take command of the game and delivering.

Doesn't seem that way about Greece. Hope they miss qualify and hope their example is this way abandoned by smaller teams, so we can have nice fluid soccer once again.

Last night i saw a "greek" Estonia playing with 11 men behind the ball, making a wall out of their defensive line. Untill they got the first goal at minute 75. Then they took another 3 scuds just to make mends.

Pitty Greece didn't go through that when they played more than deserving Czech Republic... at this point we would surely have a more positive european champion.
Ha ha it seems that you still haven't fully recovered. Yes we play awful football and everybody knows it. We just happened to win you twice in your country, losing your once in a life time chance to lift the european cup.

P.S. We can't even win Albania.
 

Mauras

Premiership
7 October 2002
By accident but it doesn't seem like it.

Just bought my usual copy of World Soccer, the best soccer magazine on earth (and a nice way to keep my english out of rust) and there it was: a nice column by one of their main trendsetters saying it better than I could:

If Scrooge was a soccer coach his team would play like Greece played in the Euro. And it must make us think about the soccer we wan't for the future.

So for now, crumbling or not, I really hope Greece don't suceed in continuing playing like that and maybe even having Rehagel get the boot, so this negative influence goes away.

It's not about Greece. It's about football.
 
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