No Bundesliga: Official Konami Statement

OPM

OPM

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2 June 2003
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Konami made an official statement on the Bundesliga situation at the PES European Cup, Dublin, Ireland:

Pro Evolution Soccer 6: Keine deutsche Liga


Wie uns Konami bei der PES-Europameisterschaft in Dublin mitteilte, wird Pro Evolution Soccer 6 keine deutsche Liga beinhalten. Der Grund: Die DFL besitzt die Rechte an der Bundesliga und hat Konami untersagt, diese in irgendeiner Form abzubilden - selbst, wenn es sich bisher um fiktive Namen und Spieler handelte. Die deutsche Nationalelf ist jedoch dabei, läuft wie gehabt mit verfremdeten Namen auf; Ballack ist z.B. "Kruger". Warum ist das auf Vereinsebene nicht mehr möglich?

Lediglich der FC Bayern München ist als voll lizenzierter deutscher Verein inkl. Trikots, Namen & Co spielbar. Es gibt aber keine Mannschaften wie "Westfalen", "Hanseaten" oder "Rhein-Ruhr" mehr, die bisher trotz fehlender Lizenzen dank ihrer Farben und Spieler an die originalen Bundesliga-Teams erinnerten und leicht über den Editor angepasst werden konnnten. Käufer werden also mit den englischen, italienischen oder französischen Ligen Vorlieb nehmen müssen.

Seltsam ist, dass die DFL jetzt nach PES4 und PES5, wo die fiktive Liga scheinbar kein rechtliches Problem darstellte, diese Forderung stellt. Im Umfeld des Events in Dublin munkelte man, dass eventuell der Wettbewerber und offizielle Lizenzinhaber Electronic Arts nachgeholfen haben könnte.
Bevor wir kein offizielles Statement haben, sind das allerdings lediglich Gerüchte.
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http://www.4players.de/4players.php/spielinfonews/360/8186/58389/Pro_Evolution_Soccer_6.html


1st bold part:

DFL = German Football League does not allow Konami to use the Bundesliga anymore in any way, this also affects any sort of fake teams or fake players.

2nd bold part:

The strange part in this situation is that they are coming to this decision now, after 2 PES parts that both included a fake Bundesliga.

Rumours around the whole tourmanent were spreaded about EA (license holder for Bundesliga) being involded in this - but no official statement from Konami about this, yet.


At least we know for sure now what the problem is. Thanks EA. :roll:
 
ThomasGOAL said:
EA can't make good games, so prefer delete or buy the concurrents...
this society remember Microsoft.
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Konami are struggling, I remember the stutter bug, the throw-in stutter bug and the master league - oh wait, how could I forget that, we've only had it for TEN YEARS. Speak for yourself.

Anyway, I don't think it's down to EA at all - EA are a company, Konami are a company, the German FA, for all intents and purposes, is a company, and so the German FA are exploiting that. The German FA are copying the English FA by the looks of it; adopting a law that says "only one game can have our license at a time", so that instead of getting e.g. £100k from each company who want the license, they get a bidding war each time the license contract is up for renewal and reach millions and millions.

I'd say it was more the FA's fault than EA's. But then they regard the license as a business proposition and nothing more (I doubt anyone in any FA's plays computer games), and so the more money they get, the better for their FA and therefore their country, as far as they're concerned.
 
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i'm just wondering in what way could they actually sue konami if they would use 18 fake teams under the name of german league or kraut liga or they lost WWII-league? nobody could prove that it is a faked bundesliga.
 
That's a good point actually, never even thought of it like that. I keep thinking the Bundesliga was licensed... I've been playing too many patched games of WE10!

I suppose if 90% of their nationalities were German, or something, they could take them to court and say "it's obvious"...? If it's obvious to us it's the German league, even if it doesn't say so, it will be obvious to the German FA and the courts, therefore, perhaps Konami aren't willing to risk anything.

Perhaps Konami have sat down and said "right, we're either going to lose money by excluding the Bundesliga, or we're going to get sued for including a fake version of it regardless of how fake it is - which will cost us more money?"... "Being sued sir". "Right, that's that then, call the press".
 
most likely. we can just hope konami might invest more in a possible "bidding war" for the next installement of their game...whatever console or version it will be (maybe different law situation for japan? = bundesliga in we10 xbox360?! never thought about THAT.)
 
Yet more proof that EA are fucking cunts who buy up licences and waste them on shit quality games. *gets off soapbox*
 
Theres 82 million people in Germnay, so theres going to be alot of PES players. Will many of them buy PES6 now? I wouldn't if there was no Premiership.

Why don't Konami just call the Bundesliga's bluff and put in the 17 fake teams (remember, they have Munich licensed). I can't see how the Bundesliga would have any case to sue when the teams are called Ruhr, Neckar and Weser?
 
It wouldn't exactly kill Konami to leave more open slots for teams and leagues to be created now would it? Konami don't help themselves at all! They know how big the editing scene is for the games but they continually refuse to help their fans out by providing the extra slots. There are enough editors on the scene to easily recreate all of the leagues available in FIFA but Konami seem to think that dog or horse heads is what we want in the editing mode as an "extra feature"!!!! What will it be this year? Fish heads?
 
easyeasyeasy said:
Yet more proof that EA are fucking cunts who buy up licences and waste them on shit quality games. *gets off soapbox*
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Played the FIFA 360 demo?

OPM said:
most likely. we can just hope konami might invest more in a possible "bidding war" for the next installement of their game...whatever console or version it will be (maybe different law situation for japan? = bundesliga in we10 xbox360?! never thought about THAT.)
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Nah, it's the same law all-around. A game is a game is a game, no matter what country it's released in - otherwise it would be released in England with the Bundesliga in.

Also, this was the year Konami had the opportunity to bid on the licenses FIFA had. The deal with EA was sorted in a day, Konami's offer can't have been comparable otherwise FIFA would have got back to Konami and said "want to make a counter offer" rather than "okay, we've had two bids and we're done". Konami will never spend out on licenses. The Japanese gamers don't need any more than they've already got, and that's all that they care about. European players aren't a priority, the game is ported and that's it.

I agree with jamez's post, if this was out in England without the Premiership, I wouldn't even look at it. Saying that, I'm not any more anyway, ten years of the master league is ten years too long, but the Japanese love that fantasy stuff.

Wolf, you're right but they don't care about the Europeans and the rest of the world. They make what sells in Japan and then port it to other countries. They want to keep fantasy in and that's that.
 
Oh! That's a shame, I think it's fantastic! I wonder why half the people who play it seem to think it's revolutionary and the other half think it's exactly the same, surely it can't be both?

I'll stop going off-topic now anyway, sorry. The German FA are shits.
 
EA = the chelsea off the video games industry.
 
But its not EA's fault! Its Konami! They're too tight to spend out on the one thing that would totally transform the PES series for the better. As Jack bauer quite rightly said, their target audience is the Japanese market, and i can't imagine they give a monkeys about the Bundesliga. The finer details of the European game are just not a priority for Konami. Thats why a European development team is so desperately needed - so that a more serious edge can be put on the game for the European market. At present all Konami Europe do is translate the manual into English, as i cant see what evidence there is of anything else.

But hey! At least those unlicensed kits will look fantastic in glorious HD!
 
I absolutely hate FIFA. Whatever PES or WE has to offer I will always take it over FIFA, even if my beloved Arsenal aren't in the game.

How are we gonna edit Blu-ray discs man? Probably we won't be able to do patching for awhile with WE/PES for PS3.
 
FIFA 07, although better than when I last played a FIFA edition, is still very 'scripted'. The only thing I'd buy FIFA for is the great amount of proper seasons, tournaments, teams etc but I'll take the PES gameplay over it anyday.
 
The "I hate EA" argument might feel good to say, but it's Konami you should be angry with.

This thing probably hit Seabass and the team at the last minute, they would have had MORE than enough to time to prepare for a future situation like this yet they CHOSE NOT to until it was too late.

It's the same thing with the English license, if Konami were "on the ball" they would have known EA was going to try to tap up the FA, instead they either:

a) Didn't know. (read: didn't care)
b) Knew but decided not to spend the cash. (read: didn't care)

This situation is entirely Konami's fault, as painful as it might be for some of you to realize, EA has done everything right concerning it's business and it's consumers, it is the ONLY company in this "war" who is giving it's backers and consumers TRUE EVOLUTION.

And for the record, I LOVE PES, and I know FIFA07 still isn't worth iut even for FREE (I could trade in 10 dodgy games and get FIFA07 gratis but choose not to) but I'm hoping FIFA08 is another story.

The way I see it, if EA continues like this, and Konami doesn't outlay some of they cash to prevent this, PES will be dead in a few years, gone the way of TIF and Club Football, and every other game that tried to seriously compete with EA.

And if this happens, it's their own damn fault.
 
Yes, I completely agree, what EA has done is business, you just can't let your competitor win over you, you need to try and stop them from doing this, but unfortunately Konami has done none of this, all they've done is sit back, allow EA to buy all the licenses, and try to create Animal heads to plz their Japanese customers with fantasy stuff. Its ok for some of us, who patch, and im sure there will be Bundesliga patches/option files, but the majority of their customers wont be able to do anything about it.

I still dont like FIFA 07 (ive played 9 halves on the 360 demo), its a good game, but still behing PES/WE, but if Konami keep up with this, I really hope, for FIFA 08, EA buy even more licenses, include more teams, have better ball phyics, gameplay, keepers than PES, then we can all enjoy a game made by people, who actually listen to their customers.

Shame on you Konami!
 
This is just like the NFL and MLB exclusive deals we had in the USA which actually killed 2 series NFL 2k by Take 2 (2k games) which was great but worse than EA Madden series and the EA MVP series which was light years ahead of the crap that is MLB 2k by take 2 (2k games).

the "fault" lies on the organizations that want to sell their rights not on the companies themselves because if the german federation or whatever other organization didn't wanted to sell their rights Konami, EA, etc could use the image and likeness of the players and teams.
 
What I don't get is some crappy football games which are unlicensed, will have German players but instead of Frings you would have Fings.

Can PES not do this because it is blatent copying?
 
timsmith10000 said:
What I don't get is some crappy football games which are unlicensed, will have German players but instead of Frings you would have Fings.

Can PES not do this because it is blatent copying?
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Nope, the German Football League forbid them to do it like that this year.
 
Kezz said:
Nope, the German Football League forbid them to do it like that this year.
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So this will affect the German national team aswell and we'll have the equivalent of the "Oranje 01" etc we had with the Dutch some years back or will the players have to be totally fictious with no resemblance to their real life counterparts?
 
i dunno, there are a few german team players that play outside of germany so we could always move them there
 
JeffT said:
So this will affect the German national team aswell and we'll have the equivalent of the "Oranje 01" etc we had with the Dutch some years back or will the players have to be totally fictious with no resemblance to their real life counterparts?
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No, the national team is said to remain untouched. Though you still have fantasy names for those players (e.g. Ballack = Kruger or sth.).
 
TheWolf said:
It wouldn't exactly kill Konami to leave more open slots for teams and leagues to be created now would it? Konami don't help themselves at all! They know how big the editing scene is for the games but they continually refuse to help their fans out by providing the extra slots. There are enough editors on the scene to easily recreate all of the leagues available in FIFA but Konami seem to think that dog or horse heads is what we want in the editing mode as an "extra feature"!!!! What will it be this year? Fish heads?
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Absolutely right!

Konami are the only ones I blame here. It's their fault, nobody elses.

I have no respect for the editability of their game. They could easily open it up, let us create 100's of blank teams and 1000's of blank players, create our own league structures, etc. They don't do it. That's a major flaw in their game.

It's their fault but they don't fix it. They try to blame other people and licensing issues. I blame Seabass.
 
luisportobello said:
The "I hate EA" argument might feel good to say, but it's Konami you should be angry with.

This thing probably hit Seabass and the team at the last minute, they would have had MORE than enough to time to prepare for a future situation like this yet they CHOSE NOT to until it was too late.

It's the same thing with the English license, if Konami were "on the ball" they would have known EA was going to try to tap up the FA, instead they either:

a) Didn't know. (read: didn't care)
b) Knew but decided not to spend the cash. (read: didn't care)

This situation is entirely Konami's fault, as painful as it might be for some of you to realize, EA has done everything right concerning it's business and it's consumers, it is the ONLY company in this "war" who is giving it's backers and consumers TRUE EVOLUTION.

And for the record, I LOVE PES, and I know FIFA07 still isn't worth iut even for FREE (I could trade in 10 dodgy games and get FIFA07 gratis but choose not to) but I'm hoping FIFA08 is another story.

The way I see it, if EA continues like this, and Konami doesn't outlay some of they cash to prevent this, PES will be dead in a few years, gone the way of TIF and Club Football, and every other game that tried to seriously compete with EA.

And if this happens, it's their own damn fault.
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I agree mate, but the thing is that Konami were to make an offer in the same amount EA did, EA can always outbid them. The problem is they are BY FAR the richest game developer in the world, so for Konami to get the Fifa licenses is virtually impossible. They would have have to make a bid so high that EA wouldnt go over it, but that would mean a gigantic loss, and Konami are a company aswell, and arent stupid to make a loss like that, just to get some more licenses.

So the one thing that could possibly happen is that PES loses the War with Fifa, and sales start to decline, and then maybe EA can just buy Seabass'es development team. Offcourse this is a bit farfetched, but think about it, it would mean the ultimate footballgame experience...
 
a) This is bullshit. And most likely a stupid rumour.

b) The DFB has no juristriction on keeping the National team and/or leagues out of the game. If this is the case, they will be faked as in previous versions. Last time I checked, the DFB has no law that permits them rights over use of the national flag of the Republic of Germany or any symbol of it. So there is that fish blown out of the water.

c) Bayern Munich are licensed.

d) The overall Bundesliga and Premiership license is exclusive to Fifa, meaning that Konami could not feasibly put them into them game at the present time.

e) If anyone believes that Seabass and his team over at KCET don't care about the licenses then you are wrong. They do... This eventually comes down to cost. Although Konami are one of the biggest companies in Japan, the Winning Eleven franchise is a small piece of that pie. EA has a long-term deal with Fifa (the governing body - hence the name) and therefore the individual organisations within it. Konami alas, does not.

f) I totally agree about KDE in Europe, they need to pull their thumb out and start to market the game more to a European audience. But then again, Konami have never had a strong base in Europe, so...

g) Ubiquitous evolution on the PSP has Bundesliga teams on it. As will Winning Eleven: Pro Evolution Soccer 2007 next year.

h) The people who moan about there not being enough licenses are the same cretins who constantly play AC Milan, Chelsea, Barcelona and Real Madrid on-line. :roll:

Anyway, this game will still smoke Fifa out of the water, so who cares?

As long as I get me hands on WE:J-League on November 22nd, its all good in the hood. \\:o/
 
winston said:
Absolutely right!

Konami are the only ones I blame here. It's their fault, nobody elses.

I have no respect for the editability of their game. They could easily open it up, let us create 100's of blank teams and 1000's of blank players, create our own league structures, etc. They don't do it. That's a major flaw in their game.

It's their fault but they don't fix it. They try to blame other people and licensing issues. I blame Seabass.
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Its more KDEI's fault as I've said before here. They should be the ones assisting their parent company in Japan and telling what they can do to make the game more appealing to their audience in the west.

Its not KCET pregorative to produce games for a European audience.

Never was, never is and never shall be...

You can blame Takatsuka-san all you want, it still won't resolve their main competitor having a golden-handshake over the licensing of the game.

After speaking to Seabass and hearing him in interviews, he has done more than is normally asked of a Konami representative to push the game in Europe and make it a viably attractive option (in terms of licenses etc.)

They really need a European-Seabass at KDEI to make this game work.
 
No Bundesliga? I will not buy the game.

If there is a german user on this board, please leave an email address of DFB and we will be able to swear them.
 
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