PES 2012 Discussion Thread .......

Apart from the scripting most of the faults arise because of the player switching.so some of your players are under AI control when they should not be,and as a consequence if there is a loose ball near them they dont react to it. This is stupid tbe number of times they either stand still or backaway or worse look at the ball and run away from it is crazy.the player switching was better in the pes 6 days and needs to be sorted along with the gks if they haven't improved it for this years version then there is no point. Never mind player id fix the friggin basics first. Pes12 should have been a really good game here's hoping pes13 is.
 
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It is worth saying one more time, before PES12 finally drops into the dustbin of history. Konami made a brilliant game. Then they tweaked it so that 50% of the time it's not a brilliant game, it's an embarrassing piece of shit which insults your intelligence to a degree that is frankly mind-boggling and makes any reasonable person just want to switch the console off. And they did this deliberately.

I can just about - just about - take it when I'm playing against the computer. I mean, at least I can understand it, even if I don't like it. They're trying to give me a "challenge". They're trying to replicate days when nothing goes your way. They're trying to cover up a one-dimensional AI. Whatever. It's awful, but if they didn't do it I'd be going through every season unbeaten, so at least it makes some kind of sense, even if the execution is clumsy and infuriating.

But in 1v1 games? What possible fucking reason is there to introduce scripting in 1v1 games? Who wanted this? Anyone? Why? It wasn't in PES2011 (which had millions of major flaws, but they were all flaws with the actual game, rather than flaws imposed on the game from above). Were Konami inundated with letters from PES players saying "Dear Konami, I love the PES series but I feel that 1v1 games are too fair. There's an element of luck sometimes, as in real football - but too often, the winner is the one who's played the best football, or made the fewest mistakes. Please could you change this, so that sometimes the computer takes over and fixes it one way or the other, and there's nothing you can do about it? PS I also think this should be as blatant as possible, so that it's extremely obvious while it's happening, and there's no chance the losing player can think he's just been unlucky. It's quite important, I feel, that he knows he's been cheated - and also that the winning player knows they didn't actually win through superior skill, but just because a random script decided it, so they don't feel any satisfaction. I feel that this is the missing piece in the PES jigsaw, and should be added to the next instalment. Thanks!"

So you're in a game, it's the second half; still 0-0 but you've completely dominated it. The opposition keeper has turned into the Bionic Man, the opposition defence is always perfectly positioned, but the other guy has barely had a kick and you feel it can only be a matter of time. But suddenly you notice your passes are not going where you aim them... often they're going in completely the opposite direction. That's funny, considering you've been playing like Barcelona for the whole match. But suddenly every pass you make in the last third is spooning off at crazy, sometimes physically impossible angles... directly to the feet of the opposition players. Sometimes they go in the exact opposite direction to where you pointed the stick, because there wasn't an opposition player anywhere near where you aimed. It looks ridiculous. You're still doing exactly what you've been doing all game - but suddenly it's like the controls have been changed without anyone telling you.

Oh, but wait, your opponent isn't playing well and he still can't score. Hmmm. OK, let's change the rules so he can plough through you from behind and come away with the ball, while every good tackle you make is a foul. Not enough? No worries, we'll change something else: now your players don't actually make tackles at all. They win the ball, oh yes, but instead of coming out of the challenge with the ball at their feet, they just kind of propel it away at 100mph, and - who'd have thought it? - every time this bizarre "tackle" is in fact a pinpoint pass onto the toe of the nearest opposition player. And not just once or twice - let's make it so that this happens every single time you tackle, making it effectively impossible for you to regain possession.

He still can't score? Christ almighty. Never mind, wait till he gets into the box and then we can send one of the AI-controlled defenders over and hack him down for a penalty even though you didn't actually press anything (never mind that earlier, one of his guys machine-gunned you as you went to shoot into an open goal, and the ref didn't even blink). Or maybe he does get a shot away, but he sends it tamely at the keeper. Fine - your keeper (80+ rated, and on a red arrow) will somehow manage to actually throw it behind his own body, into the net. And if all else fails, let him get a cross in, so the computer can auto-guide it onto the striker's head while forcing your nearest defender in the opposite direction before you can get control of him. Hooray, a goal! And ooh look... it's the last kick of the game. What a shame.

And this isn't some kind of flaw in the game. The game is fine, at least when playing 1v1 against someone who isn't going to exploit glitches. This is something that's been added to the game, deliberately. Somebody thought that we didn't really want PES2012 to be a contest, where two people can play against each other - we'd rather that sometimes it turned into some kind of electronic practical joke, which picks one player at random and tips a bucket of virtual shit on his head. In other words, someone thought this excellent game would be better if, quite often, something uncontrollable happened which totally ruined the game. So they made it happen. Sweeeeeeet.

If it's in PES2013, I'm out.
 
Absolutley spot on pere!!! This game should come with a warning. At times the things that happen or so blatant its not fun.y at all.certainly the most fustrating game of pes ever. If pes2013 is no better then i too am out cannot take anymore of this scripted shite seabass should hang his head in shame.
 
Have to say some of the cheating AI on superstar can induce monmental pes rage. Much blood sweat and nearly tears have been shed battling for points in ML, chasing 1-0 deficits but seeing every deflection act like an incisive pass for the cpu.

Having said that I honestly think it is a wonderful game, ML so addictive and the intensity of matches and depth to this game is wonderful. I even loved the shooting:CONFUSE:.
 
I just want to add before the big PES 2013 explosion, that although this game has been frustrating at times, there was a phase where I was truly addicted to it. It will go down, much like PES 2011 before it, as a game that I played constantly and got that buzz of beating the CPU. It wasn't an easy game to play in many facets, but it was a game that I will cherish. It's bad points; of course there were many. But ultimately all the sides of PES 2012 came together to fuse (at times) one hell of a gaming experience. Some matches and events, even now, I shake my head at in utter disbelief as to the brilliance.

The game as an overall package including issues from inception to patches - 7/10. Enjoyment/frustration/comingbackformorerating - 10/10.

God bless you PES 2012!
 
Pere Ubu said:
It is worth saying one more time, before PES12 finally drops into the dustbin of history. Konami made a brilliant game. Then they tweaked it so that 50% of the time it's not a brilliant game, it's an embarrassing piece of shit which insults your intelligence to a degree that is frankly mind-boggling and makes any reasonable person just want to switch the console off. And they did this deliberately.

I can just about - just about - take it when I'm playing against the computer. I mean, at least I can understand it, even if I don't like it. They're trying to give me a "challenge". They're trying to replicate days when nothing goes your way. They're trying to cover up a one-dimensional AI. Whatever. It's awful, but if they didn't do it I'd be going through every season unbeaten, so at least it makes some kind of sense, even if the execution is clumsy and infuriating.

But in 1v1 games? What possible fucking reason is there to introduce scripting in 1v1 games? Who wanted this? Anyone? Why? It wasn't in PES2011 (which had millions of major flaws, but they were all flaws with the actual game, rather than flaws imposed on the game from above). Were Konami inundated with letters from PES players saying "Dear Konami, I love the PES series but I feel that 1v1 games are too fair. There's an element of luck sometimes, as in real football - but too often, the winner is the one who's played the best football, or made the fewest mistakes. Please could you change this, so that sometimes the computer takes over and fixes it one way or the other, and there's nothing you can do about it? PS I also think this should be as blatant as possible, so that it's extremely obvious while it's happening, and there's no chance the losing player can think he's just been unlucky. It's quite important, I feel, that he knows he's been cheated - and also that the winning player knows they didn't actually win through superior skill, but just because a random script decided it, so they don't feel any satisfaction. I feel that this is the missing piece in the PES jigsaw, and should be added to the next instalment. Thanks!"

So you're in a game, it's the second half; still 0-0 but you've completely dominated it. The opposition keeper has turned into the Bionic Man, the opposition defence is always perfectly positioned, but the other guy has barely had a kick and you feel it can only be a matter of time. But suddenly you notice your passes are not going where you aim them... often they're going in completely the opposite direction. That's funny, considering you've been playing like Barcelona for the whole match. But suddenly every pass you make in the last third is spooning off at crazy, sometimes physically impossible angles... directly to the feet of the opposition players. Sometimes they go in the exact opposite direction to where you pointed the stick, because there wasn't an opposition player anywhere near where you aimed. It looks ridiculous. You're still doing exactly what you've been doing all game - but suddenly it's like the controls have been changed without anyone telling you.

Oh, but wait, your opponent isn't playing well and he still can't score. Hmmm. OK, let's change the rules so he can plough through you from behind and come away with the ball, while every good tackle you make is a foul. Not enough? No worries, we'll change something else: now your players don't actually make tackles at all. They win the ball, oh yes, but instead of coming out of the challenge with the ball at their feet, they just kind of propel it away at 100mph, and - who'd have thought it? - every time this bizarre "tackle" is in fact a pinpoint pass onto the toe of the nearest opposition player. And not just once or twice - let's make it so that this happens every single time you tackle, making it effectively impossible for you to regain possession.

He still can't score? Christ almighty. Never mind, wait till he gets into the box and then we can send one of the AI-controlled defenders over and hack him down for a penalty even though you didn't actually press anything (never mind that earlier, one of his guys machine-gunned you as you went to shoot into an open goal, and the ref didn't even blink). Or maybe he does get a shot away, but he sends it tamely at the keeper. Fine - your keeper (80+ rated, and on a red arrow) will somehow manage to actually throw it behind his own body, into the net. And if all else fails, let him get a cross in, so the computer can auto-guide it onto the striker's head while forcing your nearest defender in the opposite direction before you can get control of him. Hooray, a goal! And ooh look... it's the last kick of the game. What a shame.

And this isn't some kind of flaw in the game. The game is fine, at least when playing 1v1 against someone who isn't going to exploit glitches. This is something that's been added to the game, deliberately. Somebody thought that we didn't really want PES2012 to be a contest, where two people can play against each other - we'd rather that sometimes it turned into some kind of electronic practical joke, which picks one player at random and tips a bucket of virtual shit on his head. In other words, someone thought this excellent game would be better if, quite often, something uncontrollable happened which totally ruined the game. So they made it happen. Sweeeeeeet.

If it's in PES2013, I'm out.
Click to expand...
Very eloquently put Pere. Your acount here is spot on and sums up the PES experience post-patch. Strange, playing a whole season with Helsinki against much, much better clubs under the tutelage of much, much better players. was much, much more enjoyable than playing with better team against balanced opposition. Konami's effort was flawless, if their intent was to sap any and all enjoyment out of this game. Forget playing the game and enjoying yourself, I actually opted to do work, which seemed less of a chore than an online match.
 
Pretty late to be asking this, but what exactly does select (back) and pressing one of the 4 face buttons do? All I know is that O (B) changes your formation and that from the present list in team management. What about the other buttons?
 
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