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PES 2015 Discussion Thread (PS4/XB1)

angus

Premiership
23 November 2010
The AI will be scripted for some time into the future, we are still very far away in terms of an AI which doesn't have to cheat to give a fair game!
PES 2015 exhibition games with the emotion feature shut off creates unscripted games. That's all I play since day 1 and I haven't had one scripted game yet. So it's not something that is far away, the choice to add scripting to ML is something Konami consciously chooses to do.
 

hitmanuk

International
23 October 2002
uk
Yes it is far better having exhibition games with emotions off..i played Brazil v Argentina all up arrows too and it was superb..go to cup or master league then it changes ..I think the script is heavily with the ball and not just the AI positioning
 

angus

Premiership
23 November 2010
i played Brazil v Argentina all up arrows too and it was superb.
Yeah that's important too, good point. I only play games with all players arrows up/top form, anything else is just adding performance cheats to the game.
 

hitmanuk

International
23 October 2002
uk
I don't understand why we can't have the option to decide this in all single player modes..same as deciding day and night games ..all of the options are so restricted
 

angus

Premiership
23 November 2010
I don't understand why we can't have the option to decide this in all single player modes..same as deciding day and night games ..all of the options are so restricted
Same question I ask every year with all these sports games. 15-20 years ago, these games didn't have any of this boost/confidence programming. They played fair and according to player ratings; you were either good enough to beat the default cpu or not, but you were never cheated. All of this scripting garbage come about because people today demand more and more realism: momentum swings and such. But yeah, if it can all be shut off in exhibition mode, Konami absolutely should be providing the option to shut it off in ML and tourneys as well. That was my one and only suggestion I made for improving PES 2016.
 
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James Beaver

Championship
21 December 2014
Just finished my Brazilian league with Sport Recife. Final position 9th in the league. Started the league by playing against top player away and superstar at home. Made significant advances in defending during the season, and ended the league playing superstar also away (full manual).

I made it to the quarterfinals in Copa Libertadores. Lost with penalties after two 0-0s. These were challenging matches, because due to accumulative fatigue I had a severely reduced and tired team in the quarterfinals. Basically had to avoid running altogether in the latter match. Anyway, while I really like accumulative fatigue - because it forces me to vary my team - I think it has some bugs: even long periods of recovery do not sometimes restore energy levels. After being dropped out of Copa I had another match scheduled weeks later in Recopa, but I had to skip playing that match, cause my guys were still exhausted (which made absolutely no sense, unless I had been training them too hard).

Next La Liga with Sevilla; looking forward to facing Messi, Ronaldo and others.
 

chiefrocka4real

Champions League
30 August 2013
Munich
many :)
Same question I ask every year with all these sports games. 15-20 years ago, these games didn't have any of this boost/confidence programming. They played fair and according to player ratings; you were either good enough to beat the default cpu or not, but you were never cheated. All of this scripting garbage come about because people today demand more and more realism: momentum swings and such. But yeah, if it can all be shut off in exhibition mode, Konami absolutely should be providing the option to shut it off in ML and tourneys as well. That was my one and only suggestion I made for improving PES 2016.
Either this or they brought it in cause they assumed with it they would maintain long term satisfaction.
If so, then they still haven´t realised that with this they killing it, rather than keeping it up.

To maintain long term satisfaction, all they have to do is to make sure the game is stable, well balanced without any scripts and work on the overall stuff like ML, stadium editor etc.

That´s what they need to understand.
 

angus

Premiership
23 November 2010
Either this or they brought it in cause they assumed with it they would maintain long term satisfaction.
If so, then they still haven´t realised that with this they killing it, rather than keeping it up.
If you go on other sports forums you'll see a lot of people think this scripting/advantage programming is a good thing for videos games. But it's so badly programmed in these games that there needs to be an option to shut it off. That's the problem I have with this stuff, that these developers refuse to offer this as an option.
 
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James Beaver

Championship
21 December 2014
I had yet another interesting PES experience today. (Is there no end to this rambling?)

I am not doing any retakes in my La Liga, but because I know I am going to meet the big teams in the league, I decided to use the UEFA Super Cup against Real Madrid as a testbed. I thought I would try to figure out which strategy might work. This away match was my third match of the season. I am playing with Sevilla, full manual, against superstar.

First I tried to play the match as I thought Sevilla would really play: try to defend tight and hit them on the counter. That didn't go too well: it was soon 4-0. All CPU goals came from long distance shots from outside the box. How boring is that. Naturally Real dominated possession.

Second try: I mark Ronaldo and Bale with FBs and Benzema with a DMF to keep them from shooting, and still try to hit them on the counter. At first I think I am doing a bit better defensively, but eventually they start hitting me from outside the box again. Three long distance goals, and a fourth as a cherry on top from a through ball. I think my shot count was zero at that point. Restart.

Third try. I resort to my favourite theory: momentum can be controlled by dominating possession and/or shots. So I try to dominate at least possession. Not supergamey domination, but passing the ball around, really looking for open space. After 50 minutes it's 0-0, shots 13-7 in their favour, and my team has hit the post three times. Amazing. After 90 minutes it's still 0-0. At 95' my DMF collects his second yellow, and for the remaining 25 minutes of extra time I am in trouble, but we survive. I eventually win the penalty shootout 5-6.

In the final stats possession was 39-61 in my favour. The most amazing stat was pass rate: Real's was 81%, mine 86%. I know this is related to me playing possession game, but still: I out-possessed and out-passed Real on their home pitch.

After 120' shots were a more realistic 28-12, but whereas in the first matches Real were scoring with long shots left and right, it didn't happen here. Naturally I read this as further evidence of the theory that possession affects momentum: my domination reduced the "momentum" of those long distance shots. But we'll see: I will have plenty of chances to test this during the rest of the league.
 

Luxferre.

Non-League
28 January 2015
PES 2015 exhibition games with the emotion feature shut off creates unscripted games. That's all I play since day 1 and I haven't had one scripted game yet. So it's not something that is far away, the choice to add scripting to ML is something Konami consciously chooses to do.
its true... i turn off player emotion.. now everytime i play against barca or any other team on my master league feel so much easy than ever before(7-0 against barca its the best i can get,13 min and superstar difficulty) now its almost the end of season and im still wait for the team who can scored against my madrid on la liga (my gk is neuer and my cb sakho and varane..)

Player emotion off is a game changer, even on master league
 

angus

Premiership
23 November 2010
I didn't think you could turn it off in master league, thought it was only exhibition games
It can only be shut off in exhibition. I would guess Luxferre must be playing on a lower difficulty level than superstar to get 7-0 wins in ML.
 

Noob-Saibot

Banned
24 March 2014
YouTube - https://youtube.com/devicesupport

Here .. .is.. the biggest problem of this game.. ITs so so so easy to score goals. Every goal is the same its like no defenders no midfield . Pump the pass button and look for the player in front of you ... and .. that is ... The pace is the same, no dinamic, no soul, no sense...everything is on rails, every game is the same, there is no depth ... It's so so basic !
 
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wkhalil

League 1
26 August 2013
YouTube - https://youtube.com/devicesupport

Here .. .is.. the biggest problem of this game.. ITs so so so easy to score goals. Every goal is the same its like no defenders no midfield . Pump the pass button and look for the player in front of you ... and .. that is ... The pace is the same, no dinamic, no soul, no sense...everything is on rails, every game is the same, there is no depth ... It's so so basic !
If you play with fully assisted controls that is what you are going to get. Fully assisted let's the CPU decide for you. Not sure how I can enjoy the game with assisted controls.
 

DuduBR9

Champions League
25 July 2010
If you play with fully assisted controls that is what you are going to get. Fully assisted let's the CPU decide for you. Not sure how I can enjoy the game with assisted controls.
ItS NOT Just assisted controlls

It's the assisted controls + non stop 1-2s between forward players that makes a deadly combination and tear the Whole AI defence apart that can't follow it.

Something needs to be done with This bs.
 

Noob-Saibot

Banned
24 March 2014
If you play with fully assisted controls that is what you are going to get.

:CONFUSE: Tell me , you do not believe that this is the only cause of what is happening in the video ? All in the game as a whole? Seriously?

First... i'm not play with full assistant PASS , i play with 2 bars since 2012 and that is what i get with PES 2015 . That is how core mechanic and gameplay is made ....that and second

Fully assisted let's the CPU decide for you. Not sure how I can enjoy the game with assisted controls.
Are you mean PES 2015 , or PES in general ?
 
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gabe.paul.logan

Golden Boot Winner
7 January 2007
Budapest
Hungary
YouTube - https://youtube.com/devicesupport

Here .. .is.. the biggest problem of this game.. ITs so so so easy to score goals. Every goal is the same its like no defenders no midfield . Pump the pass button and look for the player in front of you ... and .. that is ... The pace is the same, no dinamic, no soul, no sense...everything is on rails, every game is the same, there is no depth ... It's so so basic !
dont be a troll, the king is back for those who love this
 

wkhalil

League 1
26 August 2013
:CONFUSE: Tell me , you do not believe that this is the only cause of what is happening in the video ? All in the game as a whole? Seriously?

First... i'm not play with full assistant PASS , i play with 2 bars since 2012 and that is what i get with PES 2015 . That is how core mechanic and gameplay is made ....that and second



Are you mean PES 2015 , or PES in general ?
I have not watched any videos, they don't tell much. I am just not convinced that the game plays the same and all goals feel the same, it is just not what I am experiencing. Anyway, try full manual and see if it makes any difference, try to go up one difficulty level if you feel it's too easy. Hope you enjoy the game at one point.
 
3 November 2009
England
Liverpool FC
I haven't played this game online but i do play it and i can understand how it can appear frustrating after spending most of my time online being exploited on FIFA.

Thing is, assisted passing is the only way to play these games online, yes it makes the need for any tactical, patient and strategic play obsolete but you've got to fight fire with fire unfortunately, the competitive online game modes are usually catered to more casual players,there's no point in trying to change that, we lost that battle a long time ago.

If it's more of a simulation experience you want, i suggest sticking to offline, the A.I is pretty good enough or online friendly's with mates.
 

zeus0r

Banned
11 September 2012
I haven't played this game online but i do play it and i can understand how it can appear frustrating after spending most of my time online being exploited on FIFA.

Thing is, assisted passing is the only way to play these games online, yes it makes the need for any tactical, patient and strategic play obsolete but you've got to fight fire with fire unfortunately, the competitive online game modes are usually catered to more casual players,there's no point in trying to change that, we lost that battle a long time ago.

If it's more of a simulation experience you want, i suggest sticking to offline, the A.I is pretty good enough or online friendly's with mates.
there are different online communities for manual online gaming, www.peszockerfreunde.de for example.

so if you can go without those childish ranking points, just play friendlies with reasonable people and enjoy the game in its full glory.
 

James Beaver

Championship
21 December 2014
I think I can now put my finger a bit better on why defending against superstar sometimes feels so weird. It's because the inadequate defensive AI forces you to be in multiple places at one time. Combine that with current cursor switching and you have a mess.

Here's an example of when you need to be in two places at once. The CPU attacks from the wing, and a CF makes a run. The defensive AI is unable to mark the CF with a CB: if you leave the marking to the AI, the CF will be free to receive a pass and put the ball into the goal. But the AI is also unable to pressure the winger, even if you use multiple teammate pressure. I mean, over and over again I have controlled the CB at the back, and used multiple teammate pressure to try to control the winger. The result: the winger cuts through multiple defenders easily. (Which is a modelling error: not even Messi on his best day can do it to the degree it happens against superstar on a regular basis.)

So you would need to control both the CB and another defender playing wide. And if you try to switch between them, cursor switching makes your life hell.

This doesn't happen to the same degree on top player: there multiple teammate pressure actually works in many cases.

But it gets better: sometimes you need to be in three places at once. Say an attacking FB is trying to dribble his way into your box. Again, you would need to control a defender up front and a CB in the box. But there's a third defender you need to worry about: the ADD (attention deficit disorder) defender who will be happy to break out of the line to chase the ball, thus leaving an open lane for a run and a pass. You would also have to keep him in line yourself.

So against superstar the defensive AI fails in three tasks: marking at the back, containing and pressuring up front, and maintaining a proper defensive line. You are supposed to rectify all of these, with the cursor jumping all over the place.

At least that's how I see it at the moment. Opinions?
 

Han

Very senior member
22 December 2001
Holland
I think I can now put my finger a bit better on why defending against superstar sometimes feels so weird. It's because the inadequate defensive AI forces you to be in multiple places at one time. Combine that with current cursor switching and you have a mess.

Here's an example of when you need to be in two places at once. The CPU attacks from the wing, and a CF makes a run. The defensive AI is unable to mark the CF with a CB: if you leave the marking to the AI, the CF will be free to receive a pass and put the ball into the goal. But the AI is also unable to pressure the winger, even if you use multiple teammate pressure. I mean, over and over again I have controlled the CB at the back, and used multiple teammate pressure to try to control the winger. The result: the winger cuts through multiple defenders easily. (Which is a modelling error: not even Messi on his best day can do it to the degree it happens against superstar on a regular basis.)

So you would need to control both the CB and another defender playing wide. And if you try to switch between them, cursor switching makes your life hell.

This doesn't happen to the same degree on top player: there multiple teammate pressure actually works in many cases.

But it gets better: sometimes you need to be in three places at once. Say an attacking FB is trying to dribble his way into your box. Again, you would need to control a defender up front and a CB in the box. But there's a third defender you need to worry about: the ADD (attention deficit disorder) defender who will be happy to break out of the line to chase the ball, thus leaving an open lane for a run and a pass. You would also have to keep him in line yourself.

So against superstar the defensive AI fails in three tasks: marking at the back, containing and pressuring up front, and maintaining a proper defensive line. You are supposed to rectify all of these, with the cursor jumping all over the place.

At least that's how I see it at the moment. Opinions?
Yes, the way the AI is hard on the highest level is a bit cheap.
Still, did you try to set all attacking players to mark? So including the attacking midfielders? That way your defenders do a better job.

BTW, it is very quiet overhere... :YAWN:
 

Lami

Niche Football
28 May 2007
Sydney
Man Utd, Juve
Hi everyone,

I haven't been posting in this thread for a while, but here I am now. I'm actually here to share with you my current rekindled PES 2015 love. I'm playing an offline Copa America with both @James Beaver, who created it, and @*ale and I've really been enjoying it. I wanted to say that I've noticed playing games strictly in exhibition mode is far better than any playing in any other mode; league, cup, ML, you know it. I know going back to the old pen and paper would be a hassle, but really for me it's worth it.

I'd love it if some of you would join us as well. Sharing the experience with everyone here feels really good and the challenge itself adds another dimension to the game. Here are my games that I've played so far:

Chile v Ecuador

Mexico v Bolivia

Jamaica v Uruguay

These games have been played on Top Player so far. Difficulty changes depending on you winning/drawing/losing. It's a very interesting challenge indeed. If you want more info and would like to join us, check this thread: The adaptive offline Copa América 2015 challenge.

If you like to what you see in my videos, subscribe to my channel if you wish to be notified every time I add a new match to my collection :) I'm thinking of continuing this on a daily basis, even after this challenge ends. I'd really like your inputs and suggestions for future games too :)

Join the challenge!
 

*aLe

World Cup Winner
30 August 2005
Lombardia
Too many!
All of this scripting garbage come about because people today demand more and more realism: momentum swings and such. moan and whine if they can't win a match.
Fixed that for you.
This, for me, is the main reason scripting is there (especially in FUT) in FIFA. I can't really judge PES online as I've played a handful of matches to say the most.

Yet, as I played FUT for an entire season lsat year, I'm pretty much convinced that you are helped when you're having a cold streak (otherwise the Gervinho-Ibarbo-Cuadrado kids wouldn't have their parents buy them the game anymore) and handicapped when you're winning too much (so maybe also the best players are tricked into opening packs to get better players).
 
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