PES 2015 Discussion Thread (PS4/XB1)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H83oOzniabo

"Konami presents Gabigol Mondays, a video series featuring Santos FC star Gabriel Barbosa, aka Gabigol, in which the young striker will teach fans how to perform some moves and tricks on #‎PES2015. Every Monday a new video will be released showing how to perform those tricks in real life and in the best football game there is. Check out the trailer and stay tuned for more Gabigol Mondays!"

Thx Morgan13 from WEarePES.com
 
James Beaver said:
My guess is that there's not much talk about crossing because it's still so rare. While I have seen some impressive crosses by the CPU, my quick estimate would be that it prefers other methods of offense at least 95% of the time.

The CPU seems to know many methods of offense, but unfortunately it looks like it prefers very few of them. I was amazed the other day when the CPU played a brilliant one-time layoff pass from inside the box to a one-timer by a midfielder (not sure if that description makes sense). I think it was the first time I've seen that approach in a very large number of matches.
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Probably due to the players taking too many touches and so the CPU usually sticks to it's primary tactic.

its true the Ai can attack in every different way in terms of passing, dribbling and crossing, but some still don't too well effectively especially the dribbling.

I'm sure PES 2016 will essentially be the same layout as 2015, probably in a tactical sense, same controls, probably the same graphics but with the shirt cloth physics added back in but they will add a huge amount of animations. So it depends on how many they successfully add and how much it free the games movement up.
 
klashman69 said:
Probably due to the players taking too many touches and so the CPU usually sticks to it's primary tactic.

its true the Ai can attack in every different way in terms of passing, dribbling and crossing, but some still don't too well effectively especially the dribbling.

I'm sure PES 2016 will essentially be the same layout as 2015, probably in a tactical sense, same controls, probably the same graphics but with the shirt cloth physics added back in but they will add a huge amount of animations. So it depends on how many they successfully add and how much it free the games movement up.
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Yes! PES 2016 will have an improved version of PES 2015 .I think Konami will increase something about the tactic only in PES 2017 version, it will have many new, I believe we may have a new graphic engine after the fox egine
 
ThomasGOAL said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H83oOzniabo

"Konami presents Gabigol Mondays, a video series featuring Santos FC star Gabriel Barbosa, aka Gabigol, in which the young striker will teach fans how to perform some moves and tricks on #‎PES2015. Every Monday a new video will be released showing how to perform those tricks in real life and in the best football game there is. Check out the trailer and stay tuned for more Gabigol Mondays!"

Thx Morgan13 from WEarePES.com
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Thanks mate will keep an eye out for this
 
I have been thinking about momentum and experimenting a bit. These are my impressions, not hard facts.

First, in my experience headers are the easiest way to see who has the momentum. When you start losing all aerial battles you know you're in trouble. When you gain momentum, you start winning more of them. There are other indicators - nutmegs, pass accuracy etc. - but for me headers are the most obvious.

Second, I think momentum is being affected by goals, shots and possession. Having the lead gives you an advantage. Interestingly enough, when I score against superstar, they very often make a passing error from the kickoff, even when up to that point they've had 95% pass rate.

Regarding shots, I have tested their effect by shooting a lot in some matches where the CPU has had the momentum. I don't think it even matters whether or not you hit the goal. I have played matches where I just fire a lot of long distance shots, and have felt the momentum gradually tipping my way.

I also think possession plays a role. I just played the same match twice (fm, ss). In the first match I tried to attack fast, leading me to lose the ball quite often. The opponent had three attackers in red condition, so the results were quite ugly. They had about 15 shots in the first half.

In the second match I decided to dominate possession from the start. I simply did not allow them to take the ball. When the opposition finally got the ball, they were far from the dangerous team they were in the first match. I think their pass rate was around 75%, which is really low for superstar. The CPU had two shots in the first half (20 min. match). And it was not like they had only 1/7 of the possession they had in the first match. Their overall effectiveness was just much lower.

If these observations really are true, they would explain the momentum death spiral, in particular in full manual matches where it is more difficult to keep possession and get shots against the CPU. The spiral works as follows: if the CPU dominates shots and possession from the start, it's only going to get worse soon unless you can tip the momentum your way.
 
James Beaver said:
I have been thinking about momentum and experimenting a bit. These are my impressions, not hard facts.

First, in my experience headers are the easiest way to see who has the momentum. When you start losing all aerial battles you know you're in trouble. When you gain momentum, you start winning more of them. There are other indicators - nutmegs, pass accuracy etc. - but for me headers are the most obvious.

Second, I think momentum is being affected by goals, shots and possession. Having the lead gives you an advantage. Interestingly enough, when I score against superstar, they very often make a passing error from the kickoff, even when up to that point they've had 95% pass rate.

Regarding shots, I have tested their effect by shooting a lot in some matches where the CPU has had the momentum. I don't think it even matters whether or not you hit the goal. I have played matches where I just fire a lot of long distance shots, and have felt the momentum gradually tipping my way.

I also think possession plays a role. I just played the same match twice (fm, ss). In the first match I tried to attack fast, leading me to lose the ball quite often. The opponent had three attackers in red condition, so the results were quite ugly. They had about 15 shots in the first half.

In the second match I decided to dominate possession from the start. I simply did not allow them to take the ball. When the opposition finally got the ball, they were far from the dangerous team they were in the first match. I think their pass rate was around 75%, which is really low for superstar. The CPU had two shots in the first half (20 min. match). And it was not like they had only 1/7 of the possession they had in the first match. Their overall effectiveness was just much lower.

If these observations really are true, they would explain the momentum death spiral, in particular in full manual matches where it is more difficult to keep possession and get shots against the CPU. The spiral works as follows: if the CPU dominates shots and possession from the start, it's only going to get worse soon unless you can tip the momentum your way.
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your point about manual is spot on, i think it also affects the number of fouls somewhat - you or myself, even though competent on manual, just cant keep the ball long enough to draw fouls (thats not the only reason though the AI simply does not foul enough) ..if this effects the momentum of the game too then it explains a lot
 
Tried online again today first time since latest patch
Was hoping konami had improved it. Well that's a big fat no.

Offline its a 7 or 8 out of 10 really good although still needs some work.
Online 1/10 and that's being generous its piss poor , sluggish and unresponsive press to play a pass or shoot and wait and wait and wait it's criminal and I have virgins fastest broadband speed .garbage konami!!!
 
johnking said:
Tried online again today first time since latest patch
Was hoping konami had improved it. Well that's a big fat no.

Offline its a 7 or 8 out of 10 really good although still needs some work.
Online 1/10 and that's being generous its piss poor , sluggish and unresponsive press to play a pass or shoot and wait and wait and wait it's criminal and I have virgins fastest broadband speed .garbage konami!!!
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ive never had any issues with online divisions, had some great games
 
johnking said:
Tried online again today first time since latest patch
Was hoping konami had improved it. Well that's a big fat no.

Offline its a 7 or 8 out of 10 really good although still needs some work.
Online 1/10 and that's being generous its piss poor , sluggish and unresponsive press to play a pass or shoot and wait and wait and wait it's criminal and I have virgins fastest broadband speed .garbage konami!!!
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exactly how I feel. I've complained so much about this game but my complaints are strictly online because that's really all I play. I've played offline a bit this week and it's a completely different experience. I think the issue is the camera choices given online. Offline you could zoom out more that gives you a better perspective of the field and makes the game much more fluid and quick/more responsive. If you do ZOOM at 10 on wide view it looks like the old PES games. I don't know why they cant give us this option online, they always did in the past.
 
I'm from PC section, but please can someone tell me if konami just release a few updates recently when PC as been frozen all this months?
If my calculations are correct, if they does a few updates since pes never recieve one of them, that means we have a nother year of jokes and irresponsibility like PES 2014, when PC users waiting dramatically for a silly update.
Thank you. ;)
 
This game online can be a joke at times.

Just played a Guy who has a level 1 team (I too have a 1 lv. Team as I reseted mine, I hardly Play pes these days And don't care about my club mode).

Despite Him having a lv. 1 team, he is in 5th division. When I saw the division he's playing and the lvl of his team, I was absolutetly sure The type of player I was about To face... Obviously there was something that was just not right...

The guy was not Only a pressure abuser, but he was also a 1-2s abuser. Every fucking pass From midfield into my box he was holding Down L1,making all players moving forward, wich makes EVERYTHING much harder to defend against,

And yet, I lost by 2-1 only, wich means that I played fine, because His ridiculous unrealistic Play style makes him have HUGE advantages.

The 1-2s are ridiculous and it's an easy way to exploit The game. Konami needs To do something about it.

These things make me avoid playing online.
 
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DuduBR9 said:
he was also a 1-2s abuser. Every fucking pass From midfield into my box he was holding Down L1,making all players moving forward, wich makes EVERYTHING much harder to defend against,
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How is playing a high pressure attack style abusive? Teams in real life play like that. Choose a high defend formation, pull your defenders back to help, then counter with long ball tactics to neutralize.
 
Gazprom said:
I'm from PC section, but please can someone tell me if konami just release a few updates recently when PC as been frozen all this months?
If my calculations are correct, if they does a few updates since pes never recieve one of them, that means we have a nother year of jokes and irresponsibility like PES 2014, when PC users waiting dramatically for a silly update.
Thank you. ;)
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If you have version 103.00 and datapack 4.00 for your PC, you are up to date :)
 
angus said:
How is playing a high pressure attack style abusive? Teams in real life play like that. Choose a high defend formation, pull your defenders back to help, then counter with long ball tactics to neutralize.
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angus said:
How is playing a high pressure attack style abusive? Teams in real life play like that. Choose a high defend formation, pull your defenders back to help, then counter with long ball tactics to neutralize.
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I Never said high pressure doesn't exist in real football.

If 99% of people use This tatic online, that tells us much: it gives advantages and creats an unbalanced match.

Teams in real life that put much pressure on The opponents half don't Mark like people do in virtual football, as They put pressure on The whole team: they minimize The passing options by trying to be in between The man on The ball and His teammates (or at least very close to His teammates), while One of The players put pressure on The man on The ball.

This is totally different to what happens in "football" virtual games. In football vodeogames what happens IS a Blind individual pressur: what matter is to steal The ball directly from The man on The ball As quick as possible, so The controled player And The Second man marking (holding Square) both go to The man on The ball. At times there are 4 Players pressuring The man on The ball as if ít was a collective rape (sorry for The bad words, but that's How I see ít).

Like in real football, I find perfectlyf ine when you move a player close to one of The opponents teammate Who is One of The passing option of The player on The ball (as an attempt to intercept an eventual pass to Him), while You hold Down The Second man marking button to pressure The man on The ball. But ALAWAYS sending 2 men to only pressure The man on The ball is Blind noob pressure to me, it's more like rape than a genuine football pressure, after all, it's a 11 vs 11 match, Two men don't Mark The same guy (unless The player on The ball is someone like Messi in a dangerous attacking position) at The same time as it WILL give space.

I'm not against having choices, and high pressure is One of them. But if That choice creats an unbalanced match, and 99% of people do that, then obviously there's something wrong with it.

Have you ever watched One or those championship organized by Konami themselves between The supposed best PES players ? These matchs are laughable and painful to watcH, they turn These matchs into a chaotic mess, everyone goes to attack The man on The ball as if it was a rape fest.

No problem using high pressure. The problem is how it's done and The unbalance ít creates.
The constant 1-2s from midfield to attack is also a very cheap way to creat goal scoring chances. As I said, last night there was a guy who had a lvl 1 Team but he was already in 5th Division. When i saw that I could already tell how he plays, and I was right. I knew he Would use The non stop cheap 1-2s. This also creates unbalancing to The game and it's even worse Than high pressure. Ít needs to be sorted out.
 
DuduBR9 said:
This game online can be a joke at times.

Just played a Guy who has a level 1 team (I too have a 1 lv. Team as I reseted mine, I hardly Play pes these days And don't care about my club mode).

Despite Him having a lv. 1 team, he is in 5th division. When I saw the division he's playing and the lvl of his team, I was absolutetly sure The type of player I was about To face... Obviously there was something that was just not right...

The guy was not Only a pressure abuser, but he was also a 1-2s abuser. Every fucking pass From midfield into my box he was holding Down L1,making all players moving forward, wich makes EVERYTHING much harder to defend against,

And yet, I lost by 2-1 only, wich means that I played fine, because His ridiculous unrealistic Play style makes him have HUGE advantages.

The 1-2s are ridiculous and it's an easy way to exploit The game. Konami needs To do something about it.

These things make me avoid playing online.
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the 1-2 is easy to exploit on line because of the ridiculous slow player reaction which always causes you to be out of position on defense and the button/player switch lag. Konami is a joke for not making a better online product on these overpowered consoles and with our fast internet speeds. Offline is a completely different game.
 
DuduBR9 said:
The 1-2s are ridiculous and it's an easy way to exploit The game.
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Passing is OP, first touch is OP, shooting is OP. That's why atm full manual is the only way for me to go (offline only).

Although zero bar assist isn't really full manual, because zero bar passes are still quite "magnetic." If you want to try what full manual passing feels like, use advanced through balls with all visual aids off. That will allow you to use the triangle button to place a pass into any direction at any distance - but the passing mechanism is different and passing is slower. The difference to zero bar passing is dramatic. I use these truly manual passes sometimes even to escape the momentum trap/crap, in particular in my own third: when the CPU momentum peaks, some of your "manual" passes will magically start going directly to the opposition - even if you direct them at your own players - but "advanced through ball" passes will still go where you place them.

Fully assisted passing might be the way to go if the results of actions were realistic and more context dependent. Like if you would try a first-time pass with a player who doesn't have the stats, or from a pass that is too hard or badly placed, or when the player is in an awkward position or under pressure, it would just fail most of the time. Like it would in real life. So you would have to think hard about what you try to do on the pitch.
 
Anyone who want to try something a bit different I've assigned the manual override to R1 on the ps4 controller and taped it down..doesn't seem to effect the game adversely but does open it up more and balls not locked on to the AI as much ..all direction guides are turned off..not for everyone but it makes a decent game
 
I enjoy 1 bar the most, full manual is good but 1 bar is better suited to the game.

I feel it essential for playing vs the CPU on superstar, full manual is possible on the other difficulty since it's not nearly as hard. but full manual superstar just isn't balanced enough to enjoy, it's better hn you face another guy using full manual.

1 Bar should be the base for 2016 to move forward in terms of realism vs the AI. The normal pass should be labeled as 'instinctive pass' these are passes where you don't have or you don't need time to think ad place the pass. 5 yard passes should always be simple and easy and it's not something you need to think about and aim.

Full manual on PES has been good every year, but due to the lack of responsiveness of players in general compared to 2013 and older pes titles, it doesn't give the right balance when played against the AI on the hardest level, your at too much of a disadvantage, even if you can just about beat them, get draws etc..

This is different to the manual override pass when you use L2 which is more controlled and done when you have space or time to think about it. This is different to what i see as the 'instinctive pass' where you directing each into space for players to run onto rather than a pass which automatically will go to players feet!

Advanced through ball again just doesn't work yet, until players become as responsive as they where in PES 2012-13 etc.. it works when you nail it but it makes even very simple through balls awkward.
 
I think everyone wants something different ..imo one bar the ball path is just too scripted and the AI is positioned too perfectly too often ..at times even zero bar feels like that ..the override function it seems to make the AI behave a bit differently as the ball is not locked on as much
 
The AI will be scripted for some time into the future, we are still very far away in terms of an AI which doesn't have to cheat to give a fair game!

Maybe in PES 2018 after a good few years on this base using the PS4 power they could start to severely lessen or get rid of cheating but for now there are more important issues such as responsiveness and dribbling sensitivity to be improved!

PES has got really good due to Konami thinking of the game in a balanced 'holistic' sense where everything works together! This is the best thing about 2015, like the old days we have a game where despite it being basic, it all works and all the elements make the game flow!
 
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klashman69 said:
The AI will be scripted for some time into the future, we are still very far away in terms of an AI which doesn't have to cheat to give a fair game!
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PES 2015 exhibition games with the emotion feature shut off creates unscripted games. That's all I play since day 1 and I haven't had one scripted game yet. So it's not something that is far away, the choice to add scripting to ML is something Konami consciously chooses to do.
 
Yes it is far better having exhibition games with emotions off..i played Brazil v Argentina all up arrows too and it was superb..go to cup or master league then it changes ..I think the script is heavily with the ball and not just the AI positioning
 
hitmanuk said:
i played Brazil v Argentina all up arrows too and it was superb.
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Yeah that's important too, good point. I only play games with all players arrows up/top form, anything else is just adding performance cheats to the game.
 
I don't understand why we can't have the option to decide this in all single player modes..same as deciding day and night games ..all of the options are so restricted
 
hitmanuk said:
I don't understand why we can't have the option to decide this in all single player modes..same as deciding day and night games ..all of the options are so restricted
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Same question I ask every year with all these sports games. 15-20 years ago, these games didn't have any of this boost/confidence programming. They played fair and according to player ratings; you were either good enough to beat the default cpu or not, but you were never cheated. All of this scripting garbage come about because people today demand more and more realism: momentum swings and such. But yeah, if it can all be shut off in exhibition mode, Konami absolutely should be providing the option to shut it off in ML and tourneys as well. That was my one and only suggestion I made for improving PES 2016.
 
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