PES 2017 PlayStation & Xbox Discussion Thread

slamsoze

Premiership
28 September 2010
Gave my Pes 15 a proper run last night.
Both Spanish league fully licensed,and dropping down to Reg difficulty,always remember it being really good,but I was surprised on how good this game plays.
I'd say ball physics on 15 (passing shooting/bounces/pace of the ball is unmatched in any modern Pes)
Can see my self playing it Vs 17 or 18 if I only get used to the graphics!
And the PA0 passing,even the PA1 passing is brilliant.
Downside CPU v CPU results being weird as hell

On a side note,also gave Pes 16 a go , although it's horrible when it comes to GK's (every shot goes in) that game had so much promise,pace/movement/collision
That'll conclude my retro Pes report.
For me both work as dualities, 15/17 being the more physical and sim versions, while 16/18 being the more “arcadey”, but with better feeling when you control the ball, makes you feel more free.
I have concluded that this comes as a cost for PES games , physical VS response ,they can’t yet build a game that relies on both of them.
As for 2015, I love it too, but it is the greatest example of how a but UI and XUI can hold back a game. Even with a decent gameplay in the old-gen PC version, all the inner menus, except for the main outside menu, are bad designed, laggy as hell, unergonomical as hell, you need to go deep inside 3 slowpoke menus just to put a player on transfer-list, the presentation of the player stats is terrible, they tried to rush them using the stats screen from the Facebook app manager game (for anyone still remember) “PES association football manager” , where only stats displayed are Tec-Speed-Physical, which was a terrible shortcut. Also the entrance scene was available only in competition finals, or only on PC unlocked by sider.exe.
Finally the edit mode, limited in ps4 to no OFs and in PC to just use images was like telling : if you don’t use third part patches and tools and you want to rely only on in game editor , you will suffer to death.
It was as the guy created it , wanted to torture us all.
Just to be fair, the main menu of 15&16 is of the best and well represented if any pes. The rest submenus are terrible.
 

rockstrongo

World Cup Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
For me both work as dualities, 15/17 being the more physical and sim versions, while 16/18 being the more “arcadey”, but with better feeling when you control the ball, makes you feel more free.
I have concluded that this comes as a cost for PES games , physical VS response ,they can’t yet build a game that relies on both of them.
As for 2015, I love it too, but it is the greatest example of how a but UI and XUI can hold back a game. Even with a decent gameplay in the old-gen PC version, all the inner menus, except for the main outside menu, are bad designed, laggy as hell, unergonomical as hell, you need to go deep inside 3 slowpoke menus just to put a player on transfer-list, the presentation of the player stats is terrible, they tried to rush them using the stats screen from the Facebook app manager game (for anyone still remember) “PES association football manager” , where only stats displayed are Tec-Speed-Physical, which was a terrible shortcut. Also the entrance scene was available only in competition finals, or only on PC unlocked by sider.exe.
Finally the edit mode, limited in ps4 to no OFs and in PC to just use images was like telling : if you don’t use third part patches and tools and you want to rely only on in game editor , you will suffer to death.
It was as the guy created it , wanted to torture us all.
Just to be fair, the main menu of 15&16 is of the best and well represented if any pes. The rest submenus are terrible.
Sub menus are horrible,especially on 15,so dry and boring.
I'd say the UI of 16 are the best so far.
You'll get your team tactics and form arrow of the team in the main screen etc.
I got shocked on how much content Pes 16 has.
1 Copa America (two different years)
2 Copa libertadores
3 Euro 16
4 Asian CL
5 Liga BBVA/Adelante fully licenced.

After 16 it's all gone downhill (more stadiums in 17-18-19)
But as a whole,that was the last Pes with some content.

Problem is ,every Pes game has some shitty thing making the game less playable
14 laggy
15 strange sim results
16 shitty goalkeepers
17 pretty solid (looks shit though)
18 strange ball physics at times (feels that the ball speed Vs player speed isn't synced)
19 crap AI no D2s
 

slamsoze

Premiership
28 September 2010
Sub menus are horrible,especially on 15,so dry and boring.
I'd say the UI of 16 are the best so far.
You'll get your team tactics and form arrow of the team in the main screen etc.
I got shocked on how much content Pes 16 has.
1 Copa America (two different years)
2 Copa libertadores
3 Euro 16
4 Asian CL
5 Liga BBVA/Adelante fully licenced.

After 16 it's all gone downhill (more stadiums in 17-18-19)
But as a whole,that was the last Pes with some content.

Problem is ,every Pes game has some shitty thing making the game less playable
14 laggy
15 strange sim results
16 shitty goalkeepers
17 pretty solid (looks shit though)
18 strange ball physics at times (feels that the ball speed Vs player speed isn't synced)
19 crap AI no D2s
Yes I posted about 2016 in the past. The menu and content are the best, good presentation , ML menus with useful info and a Team Spirit that works as it should be, being flexible, increasing/decreasing as you win or loose, not being a rigid number that dumps down your stats. Most important you can see CPU team TS in the gameplan screen.
As for content, I said last year and I still believe that it is the most full of official content PES until 2019. CL/EL, libertadores,sudamericana,recipe sudamericana,afc etc. LigaBBVa, Bayern Munchen licenseed. On par with 19 it looses only to numbers but wins in content quality.
 

rockstrongo

World Cup Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
Yes I posted about 2016 in the past. The menu and content are the best, good presentation , ML menus with useful info and a Team Spirit that works as it should be, being flexible, increasing/decreasing as you win or loose, not being a rigid number that dumps down your stats. Most important you can see CPU team TS in the gameplan screen.
As for content, I said last year and I still believe that it is the most full of official content PES until 2019. CL/EL, libertadores,sudamericana,recipe sudamericana,afc etc. LigaBBVa, Bayern Munchen licenseed. On par with 19 it looses only to numbers but wins in content quality.
Just wished the GK's weren't crap.
Even edited most at some point,still hortible
 

slamsoze

Premiership
28 September 2010
2017 on the other hand, would be my next decade game, over any other ps4pes, if it’s shooting was the same with the headers after crosses.
This seems to be personal taste for me, but it really holds me back. I discussed it again, thought that my players were responsible for, but I tried with the ML defaults and I had the same results. Scoring from headers is x10 times easier than scoring from shots. Every 9/10 goals I score are from cross+header. I can make 20 shots in a match and score 0, while I can take 10 headers and score 2 or 3.
I know my playstyle affects this, but when I see how easier is to score from headers, I take the easy path sometimes.
Still I can’t decide if shots are harder/nerfed or crosses and headers are just OP.
 

Emroth

Champions League
18 August 2018
Ireland
@slamsoze i remember you saying that. I dont find it OP. Im actually struggling to make a deadly cross, since im on PA0. But even on corners, I used to score much more headers in Pes19 than 17. A lot of my headers go wide or high.
 

slamsoze

Premiership
28 September 2010
@slamsoze i remember you saying that. I dont find it OP. Im actually struggling to make a deadly cross, since im on PA0. But even on corners, I used to score much more headers in Pes19 than 17. A lot of my headers go wide or high.
Maybe it is that I use L1+cross, which is supposed to do only early crosses, but in game it makes crosses more sharp and pinpoint. Next time I will be able, I’ll record the highlights to show what I describe.
 

Emroth

Champions League
18 August 2018
Ireland
Maybe it is that I use L1+cross, which is supposed to do only early crosses, but in game it makes crosses more sharp and pinpoint. Next time I will be able, I’ll record the highlights to show what I describe.
Nah, no need, pal. I know exactly what you mean. One of the reasons i was resisting PA0 were L1 crosses. They are so fucking amazing in that game. Im slowly learning to use them also on PA0 now, but yeah - crosses are lethal there. But I love them. ;)

Edit: i suppose the bottom line is - its not headers, that are OP - its crosses.
But im balancing this with PA0.

Only thing is - next season i might up the time to 20 min matches. Im finding myself in bit of a panic when I concede a goal and matches are becoming more hectic.
AI is nicely balanced. When they need a goal they up their attack, make appropriate subs and pressure more. So its not AI that is spoiling the fun. Its me trying to pinball the ball through the pitch. When Im on 20mins im much more relaxed.
 
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slamsoze

Premiership
28 September 2010
Nah, no need, pal. I know exactly what you mean. One of the reasons i was resisting PA0 were L1 crosses. They are so fucking amazing in that game. Im slowly learning to use them also on PA0 now, but yeah - crosses are lethal there. But I love them. ;)

Edit: i suppose the bottom line is - its not headers, that are OP - its crosses.
But im balancing this with PA0.

Only thing is - next season i might up the time to 20 min matches. Im finding myself in bit of a panic when I concede a goal and matches are becoming more hectic.
AI is nicely balanced. When they need a goal they up their attack, make appropriate subs and pressure more. So its not AI that is spoiling the fun. Its me trying to pinball the ball through the pitch. When Im on 20mins im much more relaxed.
The AI is well tuned, I do not know the differences to be honest, between SS,TP,PROF as i was in tailwind from 15,16 and started straight from SS but I play in PA1. In my longest save (6seasons) , I won almost every year the first position, 3 years in PEU league with Greeks and Turks and 1 year the EFL and the EPL.
The only time that I faced “scripted” match was the 2nd and 3rd seasons in the knockout 16 of EL and 8 of CL. I lost to Roma and Atletico in goal difference and were the only games that I felt , not cheated, just that if replayed the games 10 times I would loose the 9. But even then i didn’t feel abused like in 18/19, the AI was just playing as a hammer smashing my head. Even if I was angry back then, it is not compared with the Huddersfields and SPALs playing like Barca in the newer games.
In my 5th season with a promoted Leeds full of regens, I won Juventus in the CL final with a 4-0. I liked that final, cause it was a stylish 4-0. I didn’t try the dominant bullshit you have to do in 19, by changing passes for 60% possession. I kept a slow tempo with focused build up and every time they tried to push me, I hit them like a cobra on the counter attack, with my winger and the striker following me. The best point was, that after 4 times they adapted to my strategy and they stopped the all out attack, trying some isolation dribbling tricks, but it was too late for them.
The key point was my regens, who in contrast to my starting wonder kids from the start of ML, played much better as a team. I had a regen C.Ronaldo on bench and my key players were : regen Barzagli, regen Piti (this guy is a beast, a mini-Messi but better, a regen F. Brienza (another mini-Messi here) and a regen Aduriz (who is always a beast in his regen form).
 

rockstrongo

World Cup Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
I think,and the only game i can be sure of is 16-17 is that after 5-6-7 seasons the gameplay feels like like button pushing the game gets more and more wounded up and harder to have a relaxed experience.
That's my experience from 5+ season winning it all on those games
 
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Emroth

Champions League
18 August 2018
Ireland
Its a funny thing those regens. I know a lot of people hate them and cant wait till they get rid of them, but since the dawn of time I always built my team this way and always liked it.
Unfortunately, when you play lower team (like I always did), its hard to get players, where commentator would know their names. And I dont like to rob superstars from other teams. When Im about to play Madrid I like to know ill be facing Ronaldo, Bale and so on. I dont like to cripple top teams.
Regens give me commentary names, plus, as much as Im not a "faces" guy, regens look da business. They are not generic, half robots. Especially in older games it hurts my eyes.
They might become OP after few seasons, but so far my team is nicely balanced, with regens overall average around 75.
So Im getting solid looking team, with commentator calling their names, which I can observe developing nicely over years.
My most "famous" players are Pizarro, Javi Guerra and Joaquin. Rest are more or less unknown to me.
Even stats are somewhat in the back of my head. Sometimes player has high overall, but I just cant "feel" him, his style. Dont like his first touch, or dribbling, or finishing.
Had one brazilian up front with 86 OVR and even tho he was scoring goals, there was something annoying in the way he felt on the ball. Kicked him out after half a season.
 

slamsoze

Premiership
28 September 2010
Its a funny thing those regens. I know a lot of people hate them and cant wait till they get rid of them, but since the dawn of time I always built my team this way and always liked it.
Unfortunately, when you play lower team (like I always did), its hard to get players, where commentator would know their names. And I dont like to rob superstars from other teams. When Im about to play Madrid I like to know ill be facing Ronaldo, Bale and so on. I dont like to cripple top teams.
Regens give me commentary names, plus, as much as Im not a "faces" guy, regens look da business. They are not generic, half robots. Especially in older games it hurts my eyes.
They might become OP after few seasons, but so far my team is nicely balanced, with regens overall average around 75.
So Im getting solid looking team, with commentator calling their names, which I can observe developing nicely over years.
My most "famous" players are Pizarro, Javi Guerra and Joaquin. Rest are more or less unknown to me.
Even stats are somewhat in the back of my head. Sometimes player has high overall, but I just cant "feel" him, his style. Dont like his first touch, or dribbling, or finishing.
Had one brazilian up front with 86 OVR and even tho he was scoring goals, there was something annoying in the way he felt on the ball. Kicked him out after half a season.
Oh I forgot Joaquin, he was the third in my regen-attacking trio. Joaquin-Piti wingers and Aduriz CF.
This with the OPR and the feeling, was always an issue for me in PES . I never achieved to master players like Ronaldinho, Messi, Suarez, Ibrahimovic, Van Persie.
 

Emroth

Champions League
18 August 2018
Ireland
Had some crazy schedule recently.
CL - dynamo kiev
La liga - Barcelona
CL - Man Utd
La Liga - Real
Cup - Valencia (x2)
CL - Roma

Next up - Atletico.

Second in the league, second in CL (2 draws & away win against Roma) and I managed to go to next round in the cup.
Have to say - its been tough and it cost me a lot of sweat. Pizarro and Jurado injured for 2 months each. Two AI players sent off (1 of them straight red)
I also managed to get my first penalty! And i fluffed it with some grace! If there was no roof - they are still probably looking for this ball.. didnt know penalties werent easy on 17..

Please God - just give me that level of AI and physicality, mixed with this new graphics and ball physics.. i really dont need more..
 

slamsoze

Premiership
28 September 2010
Had some crazy schedule recently.
CL - dynamo kiev
La liga - Barcelona
CL - Man Utd
La Liga - Real
Cup - Valencia (x2)
CL - Roma

Next up - Atletico.

Second in the league, second in CL (2 draws & away win against Roma) and I managed to go to next round in the cup.
Have to say - its been tough and it cost me a lot of sweat. Pizarro and Jurado injured for 2 months each. Two AI players sent off (1 of them straight red)
I also managed to get my first penalty! And i fluffed it with some grace! If there was no roof - they are still probably looking for this ball.. didnt know penalties werent easy on 17..

Please God - just give me that level of AI and physicality, mixed with this new graphics and ball physics.. i really dont need more..
Sorry to ask this, but since you skipped the pes 2015&2016 and penalties are much rare, you are aware of the R1-guide on Penalties, right?
 

Emroth

Champions League
18 August 2018
Ireland
Sorry to ask this, but since you skipped the pes 2015&2016 and penalties are much rare, you are aware of the R1-guide on Penalties, right?
Yes, I know, I had few penalties in 19. Not during the match, but in the cups at the end.. But the "aiming circle" was huge! And my guy taking penalty had like 82 rating. Aiming circle was almost half the goal size itself... :LOL:
So I "aimed" it top left corner, put little bit over half bar of power and... I probably killed a bird. :LOL:
 

slamsoze

Premiership
28 September 2010
Yes, I know, I had few penalties in 19. Not during the match, but in the cups at the end.. But the "aiming circle" was huge! And my guy taking penalty had like 82 rating. Aiming circle was almost half the goal size itself... :LOL:
So I "aimed" it top left corner, put little bit over half bar of power and... I probably killed a bird. :LOL:
Yes I know I usually do some bs-center low lobbed Pkicks , with L1.
Whatever anyone believes, for me the very sophisticated aiming , top corners etc, does not have much relation to context, as I believe since the NES days, that penalty-kick against the CPU is the most scripted action in history of video games. The variables are minimum: the player that inputs the command, the CPU that processes players command and the same CPU that makes the move for the GK. It is more that it lets you and less that you earn it.
Sacred Theory No1.853 !!!! :P
 

Emroth

Champions League
18 August 2018
Ireland
Actually, while we are talking about controls...
How do you lock your angle and height during free kicks? I've read somewhere that once you adjust your curve & height, you can "lock" it and then just focus on the power..

Free kicks on Pes19 are ridiculously easy, but on 17 they are quite tricky. And often im losing my angle and curve when trying to power up.
 

slamsoze

Premiership
28 September 2010
Actually, while we are talking about controls...
How do you lock your angle and height during free kicks? I've read somewhere that once you adjust your curve & height, you can "lock" it and then just focus on the power..

Free kicks on Pes19 are ridiculously easy, but on 17 they are quite tricky. And often im losing my angle and curve when trying to power up.
Don’t have any idea. I always shit-out my Freekicks cause my hand is trembling. In the pes15-16-17, with the arrow system FKs, I have the lowest average in goals from FK, around 1 goal per 500 games.
 

Emroth

Champions League
18 August 2018
Ireland
Don’t have any idea. I always shit-out my Freekicks cause my hand is trembling. In the pes15-16-17, with the arrow system FKs, I have the lowest average in goals from FK, around 1 goal per 500 games.
:LOL:
Oh... ok. :LOL:
I scored good few but most of the time Im more surprised than the Goalkeeper that it went in... :LOL:
Power gauge on all different angles and with different players works differently. Which is good, I suppose. It adds element of unpredictability and randomness. I think they are nicely balanced there.
Im just pissed off when Im losing my target when powering up.
I'll check on youtube and edit the post if I find something.

Edit: nah, I think I imagined this. Didnt find any instruction like this in any of the tutorials..
 
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slamsoze

Premiership
28 September 2010
:LOL:
Oh... ok. :LOL:
I scored good few but most of the time Im more surprised than the Goalkeeper that it went in... :LOL:
Power gauge on all different angles and with different players works differently. Which is good, I suppose. It adds element of unpredictability and randomness. I think they are nicely balanced there.
Im just pissed off when Im losing my target when powering up.
I'll check on youtube and edit the post if I find something.

Edit: nah, I think I imagined this. Didnt find any instruction like this in any of the tutorials..
Does it work like 18-19 needed around 60~70% power gauge? Do you also adjust the height of the arrow (power possibly) pressing up or only left-right curve?
 

Emroth

Champions League
18 August 2018
Ireland
Does it work like 18-19 needed around 60~70% power gauge? Do you also adjust the height of the arrow (power possibly) pressing up or only left-right curve?
I use both, height and curve. But looking at the tutorials on youtube - im over complicating this. Tutorials are mostly showing people focusing on one - curve or height. And power is highly dependant on what height you go for. I'll try "their" way tonight, altho I kinda enjoy my mix

Edit: here's decent tutorial
 

Emroth

Champions League
18 August 2018
Ireland
Did I say my wins are coming at a cost of sweat? Add blood to it..
Have you ever had, in any Pes, situation like this??
20190630_230332.jpg
I have used all my subs and then TWO of my players are getting injured. Im finishing the match with 9 players.. this is brilliant!
 

Emroth

Champions League
18 August 2018
Ireland
Little observation, wonder about opinions of those who had couple of seasons on it.
We know (or should I say - we suspect) that, regardless of time, AI is trying to achieve some stats by the end of the matches.

I increased time to 20 mins, which "relaxed" AI more and last couple of days Im finding it tad bit too easy.. im already on everything manual apart from shots, Top Player.
Last match against Dynamo Kiev (second leg) in Champions League I won 6:1..
I absolutely love the fact that AI momentum is so nicely balanced here and its not in your face. And Im still loving it.
But I might switch back to 15 mins to add a bit of urgency for AI and put a bit of pressure on meself, when I concede..
Either this, or ill go superstar, or manual shooting - but im reluctant to go for either of them options..
 

slamsoze

Premiership
28 September 2010
Little observation, wonder about opinions of those who had couple of seasons on it.
We know (or should I say - we suspect) that, regardless of time, AI is trying to achieve some stats by the end of the matches.

I increased time to 20 mins, which "relaxed" AI more and last couple of days Im finding it tad bit too easy.. im already on everything manual apart from shots, Top Player.
Last match against Dynamo Kiev (second leg) in Champions League I won 6:1..
I absolutely love the fact that AI momentum is so nicely balanced here and its not in your face. And Im still loving it.
But I might switch back to 15 mins to add a bit of urgency for AI and put a bit of pressure on meself, when I concede..
Either this, or ill go superstar, or manual shooting - but im reluctant to go for either of them options..
For me don’t be afraid to turn to Superstar, it’s not a waste of time like 18-19. It has the usual CPU boost of the older pes,but nothing extra-terrestrial. I did not try TopPlayer in 2017 to have clear picture of the difference between TP and SS, but if I could make a comparison it is similar to TopPlayer of 2018, but with less bull$hit. They will play you harder but they will never change 4-5 laser one touch passes. Of course there will be matches where “ you have to lose” no matter what you do, but nothing close the 2018 tricks or the poor 2019 tap-ins. Plus your defense still functions in this level, you will not see the 2019 weird step backs or your AI controlled teammate colliding with your Goalkeeper to concede an own goal.
 

Emroth

Champions League
18 August 2018
Ireland
For me don’t be afraid to turn to Superstar, it’s not a waste of time like 18-19. It has the usual CPU boost of the older pes,but nothing extra-terrestrial. I did not try TopPlayer in 2017 to have clear picture of the difference between TP and SS, but if I could make a comparison it is similar to TopPlayer of 2018, but with less bull$hit. They will play you harder but they will never change 4-5 laser one touch passes. Of course there will be matches where “ you have to lose” no matter what you do, but nothing close the 2018 tricks or the poor 2019 tap-ins. Plus your defense still functions in this level, you will not see the 2019 weird step backs or your AI controlled teammate colliding with your Goalkeeper to concede an own goal.
Savage! Thats exactly what I wanted to hear! I like AI error on Top Player and sometimes star players make me look like an amateur.. so I was afraid that once I switch to Superstar - all error will be gone and star players will be inhuman to deal with.
Thanks!
 

xicpanad

Premiership
27 March 2009
I was playing on TP, manual passing, -1 speed. I enjoy it but on the World Cup I could barely play against Senegal and some other "weaker" national team. It was so fast compared to the league matches that I got frustrated. Maybe I was tired, I don´t know. Have to try it again.
 

rockstrongo

World Cup Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
A played a few games last night,and my god how fast -1 feels when comparing to 0 on 18&19.
That's probably my biggest question mark on this game.
Still a great game rhough
 
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