PES 2020 Rumours Discussion Thread

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MafiaMurderBag said:
Posted in the Retro thread.

Been playing a bit of PES 2014 this week, And i'm blown away by how realistic this game tried to be, the ambition and vision for PES 2014 and what the series could've been on Fox is a painful time capsule of could haves and should haves. The AI is pretty impressive on this game, check out this bit of skill and technique from COM controlled Drogba!


And something about the weight of the players really adds a full feeling to the physicality of this game. It's only the first time PES introduced actually body physics to the series and it wasn't bad at all for Konami's first attempt at their own "impact" engine.


Not to mention the animations, foot planting and inverse kinetics. If only more emphasis was placed in current PES on body momentum like they did here.

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Pes 14 is still one of the best and most realistic Pes' for me.
Still the most WOW feeling that i had with any Pes till now with how realistic it felt just from the first 10 minutes playing it.
They really tried to achieve something great there.
If only the arcady crowd,which is the majority sadly,would shut the fuck up and let Konami do their thing and built from there and follow their vision,then probably we would have an amazing game today.
But the bashing was so strong that they were forced to abandon that project.
They butchered foot planting again to favor high responsiveness and introduced an arcade fest for Pes 15 and guess what,people loved it..
They're a company and they must do what the majority wants in order to sell and survive.
They can't just follow their vision.That's the sad truth.
There is a saying that says ''Blame the game,not the player.''
Well in this case,i blame the fucking player!

With this in mind,i mean the fact that they try to find a balance to have the majority happy,i think they've done a good enough job in general in 19.At least for me who play mostly online.
But surely i want to see further improvement in movement,animations,shooting,collisions etc.
But i have the impression by now that Fox is a limited engine and doesn't have a lot more room for improvement in these aspects.I really hope they'll prove me wrong,but i don't think we'll see serious improvement until a trully next gen engine arrives.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
I hope PES sticks with FOX. Otherwise all assets need to be rebuilt again probably. Not to mention the gameplay.
Whats wrong with FOX? It looks stunning, best looking footy game we have and the engine is for "free".
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Agreed ball physics are the best in any footy games but players physics, collisions and smooth animations + 360 degree are not good enough in 2019. Game feel too stiff in technicaly department.
 
Pes 2014 was great in ideas but was really bad in execution. It was so frustrating to play i sold it after a couple of months because i wasn't enjoying it at all.

Many say they hugely improved it with patches after months, but what is the meaning of improving it if some time later, when Pes 2015 released, it was all wasted since Pes 2015 felt like a completely different game?

Konami should have had the courage to keep following their vision and keep improving Pes 2014 with Pes 2015. Instead they went into panic mode because of the big negative feedback, big drop in sales and completely cancelled the project they started with Pes 2014. Now, there is nothing in Pes coming from Pes 2014.

They reacted so bad that they went to the extreme. From a complex and deep gameplay base upon which they could have created a great simulative game to Pes 2018 and Pes 2019 being two of the most simplified and scripted Pes ever.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
I hope PES sticks with FOX. Otherwise all assets need to be rebuilt again probably. Not to mention the gameplay.
Whats wrong with FOX? It looks stunning, best looking footy game we have and the engine is for "free".
Click to expand...
This is exactly my concern. Sure i'd love it if Konami and prove they can keep evolving and be contemporary when it comes to engines but the truth is, they have a track record of struggling to transition quickly to a new engine in the 1 year dev cycle. Look at PES 6 Xbox 360 and PES 2014.

They released them one year too early and they were barren of features & modes and in PES 2014's case especially, player faces. Sure both times the new engine were necessary and especially The Fox engine showed exciting potential but it was also rushed and it was unacceptable to charge full price for a game which was severely lacking in polish and features compared to PES 2013.

I hope they've learned enough from those 2 incidents and have a better contingency in place before they release with a new engine. Also, i think the fox engine looks fine from a visual standpoint, Yes there's issues with animations, inertia and physics but it's also probably not gonna matter much with the esports direction they're going in now on a new engine. We may still not get the balanced simulation experience a lot of us wish for.
 
Dennis_87 said:
Pes 14 is still one of the best and most realistic Pes' for me.
Still the most WOW feeling that i had with any Pes till now with how realistic it felt just from the first 10 minutes playing it.
They really tried to achieve something great there.
If only the arcady crowd,which is the majority sadly,would shut the fuck up and let Konami do their thing and built from there and follow their vision,then probably we would have an amazing game today.
But the bashing was so strong that they were forced to abandon that project.
They butchered foot planting again to favor high responsiveness and introduced an arcade fest for Pes 15 and guess what,people loved it..
They're a company and they must do what the majority wants in order to sell and survive.
They can't just follow their vision.That's the sad truth.
There is a saying that says ''Blame the game,not the player.''
Well in this case,i blame the fucking player!

With this in mind,i mean the fact that they try to find a balance to have the majority happy,i think they've done a good enough job in general in 19.At least for me who play mostly online.
But surely i want to see further improvement in movement,animations,shooting,collisions etc.
But i have the impression by now that Fox is a limited engine and doesn't have a lot more room for improvement in these aspects.I really hope they'll prove me wrong,but i don't think we'll see serious improvement until a trully next gen engine arrives.
Click to expand...

While Pes 14 had some good approaches it was simply broken or better said "not ready".
Players even Messi, Neymar etc. moved like tanks you had absolutely no control over dribbling. If I had to choose between proper foot planting and responsiveness I would always choose responsiveness to be honest. Football players are athletes and I want to feel that on the gamepad. I think even Pes 19 does feel sluggish at times. The last game where I loved the dribbling was Pes 6. Of course it was a bit fast but you had control about every single step and turn of your player. In todays Pes you never seem to have the full control I think thats because of the 360 degree movement.

I understand that people like the approach of Pes 14 but to say it's one of the best Pes ever..??? Naah it was way to broken for that. But that's just my humble opinion.
 
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Turdi182 said:
While Pes 14 had some good approaches it was simply broken or better said "not ready".
Players even Messi, Neymar etc. moved like tanks you had absolutely no control over dribbling. If I had to choose between proper foot planting and responsiveness I would always choose responsiveness to be honest. Football players are athletes and I want to feel that on the gamepad. I think even Pes 19 does feel sluggish at times. The last game where I loved the dribbling was Pes 6. Of course it was a bit fast but you had control about every single step and turn of your player. In todays Pes you never seem to have the full control I think thats because of the 360 degree movement.

I understand that people like the approach of Pes 14 but to say it's one of the best Pes ever..??? Naah it was way to broken for that. But that's just my humble opinion.
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Yeah the game felt that it was not ready on release.And that was Konami's fault and one of the reasons why most people disliked it.But then with updates it become better through the year.At least it was and still is till today the only Pes where they tried to move to a less arcady approach overall.It was just the beginning of something and needed time.
My point was that if they could afford to stay on that vision then they could improve things after like better responsiveness etc.But the bashing was so hard that they had to abandon it and go the arcady route again.
It's still the only one that tried to have some decent cloth physics,even had shirt pulling.
Also the collision engine was able to detect small collisions which lead to greater physicality and realistic feel of weight.
Also had shoulder barging.And had less clipping because of all of that.Now imagine if they could have 5 years to improve this project what a game could we have today..

But anyway,this belongs to history now and it's a bit offtopic for this thread.
Let's hope that we'll have a better game overall for Pes 20.
In 6-7 weeks from now i guess we'll have the first E3 gameplay videos.
Let's see..
 
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I don't think any PES 20xx will ever be a COMPLETE game - each will have something missing and so the cycle continues.

A cycle I don't think I want to be a part of any more.

Each PES has its own merits.

The future of PES for me will probs be a mashup of 2013/17/18...with sprinkles of 14/15/16/19.

Fifa also feels "flawed" (my opinion) on the pitch (but delivers in presentation) - so I'll play sprinkles of Fifa 18/19 when I want that aesthetic input.

My investigations are pretty much done.

In conclusion :

If I'm feeling slow and want to see some pace - PES 2013
If I want to see physicality - PES 2014/15/17
If I feel lazy - PES 2016
If I want graphics/animations - PES 18/19
If I want realistic presentation - FIFA 18/19
 
One of the biggest problems not yet fixed in PES 2019 is the referee ..
There is no direct red card, Judge
Whistling just as there is no reason,
There is no penalty for you,
The referee is superfluous in this game,
I do not understand how each year they fall into something else ,
They do not want to beat FIFA?
Listen to people in the community instead of breaking the game again and again every year.

Start investing in things around the game
Like presentation ..
Enter EDIT more editing modes
Like choosing flags and how they will look
This game can be great if one time really if konami will invest and understand that PES can be the 2K of football.
 
they should make option to build league instead switching every time the leagues..
the moders in our community can crate just leagues and kits to be more full game like in fifa ..
i will not care if the game will be 100 gb or even more ,
this option can all so crate how much b league for the first leagues
they don't need the to much licenses
focus on the gameplay and the presentation and give our all edit option
 
Pro Baseball Spirit by Konami - 2019.

D5Hd6isX4AEG3WY.jpg


D5Hd6OhWkAAkx-1.jpg



Wonder if it's using the FOX Engine?.
The crowd looks miles better than in PES, there seem to be actual cloth physics, and the shadows are better too.
Even players hands are better than in PES (which are strangely out of proportion, too big!).
 
Chuny said:
Pro Baseball Spirit by Konami - 2019.

D5Hd6isX4AEG3WY.jpg


D5Hd6OhWkAAkx-1.jpg



Wonder if it's using the FOX Engine?.
The crowd looks miles better than in PES, there seem to be actual cloth physics, and the shadows are better too.
Even players hands are better than in PES (which are strangely out of proportion, too big!).
Click to expand...
Player models still have bigger waists,hips and asses here than what they should have like in Pes 19.
I really hope they'll look after this and introduce more athletic models with proper cloth physics.
Also you're right about the hands,they also look bigger than what they should in Pes 19 and they should fix this.
Here they seem better and more realistic.

Also another thing that is completelly ridiculous is that every player in celebration cutscenes have the same height.
You can have Crouch and Messi celebrating and they're the same height!
It looks like they made every celebration cutscene with generic same height models so it doesn't recognize different players individual height.Fifa has this thing correct as it should be.
I hope they'll fix this but they'll probably won't because the majority doesn't complain for such things but for updating fucking Rashford's face..
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
I hope PES sticks with FOX. Otherwise all assets need to be rebuilt again probably. Not to mention the gameplay.
Whats wrong with FOX? It looks stunning, best looking footy game we have and the engine is for "free".
Click to expand...
There is nothing wrong with FOX, it's just outdated and will be not ready for new PS5 technologies.
 
We know how Konami works, they are never ready for a new console gen.

The first couple of years in next gen will still have the last gen engine but prettier, i can see them changing engine with Pes 2023, if Pes is still around at the time.

But, changing engine means nothing. An engine doesn't automatically create a football game without technical issues and i can see compenetrations and bad collisions still being there if they are not accurately coded.

Problem is actual Konami releases half baked games, barely testing them (look at the AI), so unless there is an actual great software development environment, with much more people working on the game, even a new engine won't solve anything.
 
But there could be another in house engine in development hopefully which can use the previous assets. Some of the assets in FIFA are coming from FIFA 10 (faces especially). While PES had to do all over again in 2014.
 
ThomasGOAL said:
Apparently yes, but only on next-gen versions.
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And from what we experience with Konami's horrible decision in the past.. maybe not that soon for PC :D NEXT GEN PC version of PES will come one or two years after the PS5 release.
 
godoffootball said:
they should make option to build league instead switching every time the leagues..
the moders in our community can crate just leagues and kits to be more full game like in fifa ..
i will not care if the game will be 100 gb or even more ,
this option can all so crate how much b league for the first leagues
they don't need the to much licenses
focus on the gameplay and the presentation and give our all edit option
Click to expand...

You‘d be surprised how small the group of people is that goes to great lengths of editing this game. 10% of the customer-base, no more, and that’s a generous estimation. Don‘t forget, that on consoles (major market) it‘s a pain in the behind to edit, on Xbox not even possible.

Noone will buy a game for 60 bucks that has no licences and that they‘d have to customize extensively themselves.

I think Konami‘s strategy - go for more exotic licenses if you can‘t get the big ones - is sound. After all, South America and Asia are also the last markets with potential growth.
 
Rodchenko said:
You‘d be surprised how small the group of people is that goes to great lengths of editing this game. 10% of the customer-base, no more, and that’s a generous estimation. Don‘t forget, that on consoles (major market) it‘s a pain in the behind to edit, on Xbox not even possible.

Noone will buy a game for 60 bucks that has no licences and that they‘d have to customize extensively themselves.

I think Konami‘s strategy - go for more exotic licenses if you can‘t get the big ones - is sound. After all, South America and Asia are also the last markets with potential growth.
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Ok but why not to give the option to add more league as much we want?
and lower league for each league ?
they will never will be good in the consoles better then fifa , just beacuse of that
but at least in pc they can do more work and give us all the options.
i played pes all my life in ps2 and i moved to pc just beacuse the edit and the options to make my country league and fifa you can only play online and friends ..
 
It's a dream of mine that somewhere in the future of PES, the game would incorporate a deeper tactical approach to the game beyond what they have today. Fluid formations, current position and role system are not enough.

From redefined and expanded player positions (haven't they learned from FM yet?) , to a subdivision of special abilities and player roles (Raumdeuter, Inside Forward, Sweeper, Defend, Support, Attack, etc.).

Also, why not give a slider option for attacking style, passing style, etc. It's shouldn't be black and white, there's a whole in-between world out there for Possession game, Quick Counter, Long, Short.

Give player the choice to choose their preferred game style with more game speed options: animation speed, passing speed, player speed, ball weight, referee strictness, foul frequency.

A pipe dream indeed...
 
loco said:
It's a dream of mine that somewhere in the future of PES, the game would incorporate a deeper tactical approach to the game beyond what they have today. Fluid formations, current position and role system are not enough.

From redefined and expanded player positions (haven't they learned from FM yet?) , to a subdivision of special abilities and player roles (Raumdeuter, Inside Forward, Sweeper, Defend, Support, Attack, etc.).

Also, why not give a slider option for attacking style, passing style, etc. It's shouldn't be black and white, there's a whole in-between world out there for Possession game, Quick Counter, Long, Short.

Give player the choice to choose their preferred game style with more game speed options: animation speed, passing speed, player speed, ball weight, referee strictness, foul frequency.

A pipe dream indeed...
Click to expand...

If that is done in reverse, I'd much prefer it instead. The problem with KONAMI's approach this gen is that they are anchoring tactics/styles as their base, and forgetting about the very basic fundamentals of the game. I wrote about this in PesUniverse community article here:

https://www.pesuniverse.com/community-spotlight-the-priorities-of-pes-2018-and-beyond/

It's a shame it's still not there, and I'm skeptical that it will ever rid of itself of the poor priorities.
 
If I remember PES 14 correctly I had pretty much one issue with it, and that was the shooting. Always felt off to me.
As for a new engine, I would be stunned if the tops at Konami would be willing to put money and resources into that. Doesn't seem to be enough going on at the company to justify that.
 
It's a bit offtopic but it's no wonder Pes console version has been abandoned more and more while the mobile version has received a big graphic update.

  1. Monster Strike - 130.2 billion yen - XFLAG
  2. Fate/Grand Order - 120.4 billion yen - Aniplex
  3. Knives Out-Tokyo Royale - 73.7 billion yen - NetEase
  4. Puzzle & Dragons - 70 billion yen - GungHo Online
  5. Dragon Ball Z Dokkan Battle - 46.1 billion yen - Bandai Namco Entertainment
  6. Granblue Fantasy - 33.9 billion yen - Cygames
  7. Pokémon GO - 32.1 billion yen - Niantic
  8. Power Pros - 30.3 billion yen - Konami
  9. LINE: Disney Tsum Tsum - 29.2 billion yen - LINE Corporation
  10. Blazing dance of civil war -KIZNA- - 27.9 billion yen - Sumzap Inc.
  11. LINE Manga - 27.3 billion yen - LINE Corporation
  12. LINE - 27.3 billion yen - LINE Corporation
  13. Professional Baseball Spirits - 25.3 billion yen - Konami
  14. The Idolmaster: Cinderella Girls Starlight Stage - 22.5 billion yen - Bandai Namco Entertainment
  15. Bang Dream! Girls Band Party! - 22.1 billion yen - Craft Egg
  16. White Cat Project - 21.3 billion yen - Colopl
  17. Lineage 2 Revolution - 19.7 billion yen - Netmarble games
  18. Pro Evolution Soccer 2018 - 15.7 billion yen - Konami
  19. Star Dragon Quest - 15.6 billion yen - Square Enix
  20. LINE Poko Poko - 15.2 billion yen - LINE
Only counting Japan, Pes 2018 mobile earned them roughly 125 mln €, while Pes 2018 sold about 200.000 copies thus earning them just 12 mln € if we calculate every copy has been sold at 60 €. This is the power of microtransactions.

There are also many other Konami games up there with much more earnings. Are you still asking yourself why Konami doesn't care anymore about console games and treats console Pes as a secondary project right now?

Sadly this is the future for Pes.
 
Ameppe said:
It's a bit offtopic but it's no wonder Pes console version has been abandoned more and more while the mobile version has received a big graphic update.


  1. Monster Strike - 130.2 billion yen - XFLAG
    Fate/Grand Order - 120.4 billion yen - Aniplex
    Knives Out-Tokyo Royale - 73.7 billion yen - NetEase
    Puzzle & Dragons - 70 billion yen - GungHo Online
    Dragon Ball Z Dokkan Battle - 46.1 billion yen - Bandai Namco Entertainment
    Granblue Fantasy - 33.9 billion yen - Cygames
    Pokémon GO - 32.1 billion yen - Niantic
    Power Pros - 30.3 billion yen - Konami
    LINE: Disney Tsum Tsum - 29.2 billion yen - LINE Corporation
    Blazing dance of civil war -KIZNA- - 27.9 billion yen - Sumzap Inc.
    LINE Manga - 27.3 billion yen - LINE Corporation
    LINE - 27.3 billion yen - LINE Corporation
    Professional Baseball Spirits - 25.3 billion yen - Konami
    The Idolmaster: Cinderella Girls Starlight Stage - 22.5 billion yen - Bandai Namco Entertainment
    Bang Dream! Girls Band Party! - 22.1 billion yen - Craft Egg
    White Cat Project - 21.3 billion yen - Colopl
    Lineage 2 Revolution - 19.7 billion yen - Netmarble games
    Pro Evolution Soccer 2018 - 15.7 billion yen - Konami
    Star Dragon Quest - 15.6 billion yen - Square Enix
    LINE Poko Poko - 15.2 billion yen - LINE
Only counting Japan, Pes 2018 mobile earned them roughly 125 mln €, while Pes 2018 sold about 200.000 copies thus earning them just 12 mln € if we calculate every copy has been sold at 60 €. This is the power of microtransactions.

There are also many other Konami games up there with much more earnings. Are you still asking yourself why Konami doesn't care anymore about console games and treats console Pes as a secondary project right now?

Sadly this is the future for Pes.
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But is the mobile game superior to console? (I recall someone commenting it was good - okay - but is it better than console version? in what way, etc?)

I haven't tried (yet) but if it delivers, then surely we should be shifting our play to the mobile platform?

with recent advances in mobile gaming I'd happily shift if that's where the game I'm after is.

so who has tried it and can comment.
 
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