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PGA Tour 2K21 [PS4/XB1/PC]

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
this:
sorry if my bad english put my on the wrong way.
Oh, he's been invited to the preview event, as a streamer. He's a part of this:


But he's not played it yet as far as I know, and he's certainly not a dev or anything.

He may get to put a few vids up but he's not an EA-style "gamechanger" or anything like that. If anything, HB Studios have shown they don't listen to the fans, so it's just promo stuff. I won't believe anything about the game until I've played it myself.

I went and pre-ordered last night because I've really enjoyed playing TGC Tours the last month or two. There's so much I really hate about it (the greens being like frozen ponds for one - and the ridiculous scoring you see online)... but it's the only golf game in town, so...
 

rojofa

Championship
15 September 2017
The graphics of this series are some of the ugliest and most unoptimised garbage I have seen in a AAA sports game. Everything looks like some indie developer's first attempt at making something in Unity. Shitty generic assets (trees and foliage look terrible), bad lighting (look at the roof at 1:12-1:14 of the last video), mannequin looking humans, robotic crowd poses/animations, shitty flat water with no transparency etc... Yet still the GPU temps and framerates are awful compared to games that look 10x better.

Suppose I might pick it up in a few years if it goes under a fiver and the gameplay is decent, but it doesn't look like there's much added to make it worth upgrading from the last one.
 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
The graphics of this series are some of the ugliest and most unoptimised garbage I have seen in a AAA sports game. Everything looks like some indie developer's first attempt at making something in Unity. Shitty generic assets (trees and foliage look terrible), bad lighting (look at the roof at 1:12-1:14 of the last video), mannequin looking humans, robotic crowd poses/animations, shitty flat water with no transparency etc... Yet still the GPU temps and framerates are awful compared to games that look 10x better.

Suppose I might pick it up in a few years if it goes under a fiver and the gameplay is decent, but it doesn't look like there's much added to make it worth upgrading from the last one.
yeah. sad!!
i'm not buying any more sports games for this generation! i can easily wait till the first real next gen versions (graphics and gameplay!) arrive. football, golf, basketball, ice hockey, baseball, football, MMA... bring it on! :)
 

rojofa

Championship
15 September 2017
yeah. sad!!
i'm not buying any more sports games for this generation! i can easily wait till the first real next gen versions (graphics and gameplay!) arrive. football, golf, basketball, ice hockey, baseball, football, MMA... bring it on! :)
Bad developers will still make bad looking (and playing) games though, I don't think TGC's shitty graphics are because of the XB1/PS4 hardware. Just Cause 2 from 10 years ago has nicer looking water and trees.


I'm hopeful that some of the big studios will take advantage of new technology for the new consoles, but some of the smaller studios who make sports games (HB Studios, Big Ant etc.) will probably create games with the exact same kind of gameplay and visuals but just rendered in 4K and/or (probably or) 60FPS.
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
According to a few guys on the official HB Studios forum, the official PGA Tour 2K21 account posted a video earlier which has now been pulled.

In that video, there was a screenshot that seems to show real PGA players on the PGA leaderboards - no more fakes...

(And your name isn't forced to be your gamertag any more - in the career mode at least.)



In other news, it's been announced by the senior game designer (after the leak in the below article) that there are six difficulty modes. Quote from the guy (from the above forum):
The difficulty levels from easiest to hardest are Beginner, Amateur, Pro-Am, Pro, Master, and Legend.

And in response to the studio head saying "I would be very surprised if anyone breaks par on day one" a while ago, in response to difficulty concerns:
The "won't break par day one" comment was regarding the Legend difficulty. I honestly do not recommend anyone starting off on Legend... I also know that won't stop some of you... But you really all should take some time at Pro to get a feel for the game before diving headlong into the harder difficulties...

With the good news comes some bad news... Seems that (once again) most of the career mode courses are fantasy courses which can't be swapped out for the real ones, which are available from the community designers. What a stupid thing - having the real courses available, but not being able to put them into the career mode. How hard would that be (and yes, it's probably licensing reasons, but even so, it's so frustrating).

SOURCE: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/pga-tour-2k21-courses
 

Gunslinger

Premiership
5 September 2016
I used to love golf videogames. Links series on PC, Tiger Woods on the PS2. TGC 2 did nothing for me though. This doesn't look much better.🙁
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
The preview embargo seems to end at 3pm UK time.

This guy is uploading his videos to YouTube at 3pm: Jimgem

And here there will be a live stream at the same time:

 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
This was the first video I watched, and I actually really like the look of it!

 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
This was the first video I watched, and I actually really like the look of it!

What I always like is showing the difficulty settings first (In game settings at all), and what I like as well is the multiplier you will get when you turn off the aids.

what are you thinking about the hook/slice story seemingly to be continued in regards to slow and fast swings?

The graphics do you look like a minor improvement!
 
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Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers

Really good review of what's good and what's bad.

TL: DW; a lot of good, not much bad.
 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
Graphics looking good! But I’m still not sure if I’m gonna get it or not.


ps: What’s that little waggon thingy right next to him when he tees off?
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
After seeing some gameplay earlier on Twitch (some have got the game early), and watching a guy on Legend difficulty finish +30... I am 100% in.

Gameplay looks fantastic, got to say. As does the Career Mode, bar the missing licensed courses that have been replaced with fictional ones.

I'm super excited for Friday. Which is rare for me at the moment when it comes to game releases!
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
Really interesting things happening over at the official forums. (Especially for football fans who are used to licensing drama!)

The senior game designer (who is permanently pissed off at how critical the community are being) has posted this - and combined with what we know from streamers, this confirms a few things:

1) The new PGA licensing agreement forbids the game from allowing the user to replace fictional courses from the PGA career mode and replace them with "RCRs", or "Real Course Recreations", that their community make.

2) Going forward, users who create "RCRs" may find their courses censored, or at worst removed, if they're recreations of PGA Tour courses. (This has been a huge part of the success of previous games, which didn't have the PGA license.)

3) Solo societies, where you could construct your own season (and play on whichever courses you like), have been removed from the game. But online societies still exist, where you can play in a club with other real people (no AI).

4) You can't edit the player roster. It features real world players but is missing the top 12 or so ranked players (Tiger, Rory, Phil etc.) because they have image rights deals that cost a hell of a lot of money. Once again, the PGA has to protect the courses that are part of the tour, and the players too, so you can't have fake versions of them.

It seems like a pretty strict licensing deal - and with only 14 of 33 tour courses appearing in the game (with at least a couple more being added as DLC in future, according to leaks)... It's not great!

A few hardcore players are screaming in the forums asking for them to take all the licensing off and go back to a fully customisable game. They refuse to accept that this would mean fewer sales and a lot less revenue for the company.

It's weird speaking to people who just don't have the experience we all have of seeing games with famous footballers on the front (and all the licenses in the world) selling millions of copies, while PES shifts about 5% as much...
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
Someone's just uploaded this screenshot to show off how gorgeous the graphics are...

I think he might be drunk. In real life, and in the screenshot.



 
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Gunslinger

Premiership
5 September 2016
Thought this game would look better, especially the player models. Hopefully the short game has been improved from the last game. Otherwise, looks decent.
 

Bond!JamesBond!

PS2 PES Greatness
19 October 2013
North America
Chelsea FC
Really interesting things happening over at the official forums. (Especially for football fans who are used to licensing drama!)

The senior game designer (who is permanently pissed off at how critical the community are being) has posted this - and combined with what we know from streamers, this confirms a few things:

1) The new PGA licensing agreement forbids the game from allowing the user to replace fictional courses from the PGA career mode and replace them with "RCRs", or "Real Course Recreations", that their community make.

2) Going forward, users who create "RCRs" may find their courses censored, or at worst removed, if they're recreations of PGA Tour courses. (This has been a huge part of the success of previous games, which didn't have the PGA license.)

3) Solo societies, where you could construct your own season (and play on whichever courses you like), have been removed from the game. But online societies still exist, where you can play in a club with other real people (no AI).

4) You can't edit the player roster. It features real world players but is missing the top 12 or so ranked players (Tiger, Rory, Phil etc.) because they have image rights deals that cost a hell of a lot of money. Once again, the PGA has to protect the courses that are part of the tour, and the players too, so you can't have fake versions of them.

It seems like a pretty strict licensing deal - and with only 14 of 33 tour courses appearing in the game (with at least a couple more being added as DLC in future, according to leaks)... It's not great!

A few hardcore players are screaming in the forums asking for them to take all the licensing off and go back to a fully customisable game. They refuse to accept that this would mean fewer sales and a lot less revenue for the company.

It's weird speaking to people who just don't have the experience we all have of seeing games with famous footballers on the front (and all the licenses in the world) selling millions of copies, while PES shifts about 5% as much...
if they give the RCR a fake name they can't do anything. it worked in the past anyway.
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
if they give the RCR a fake name they can't do anything. it worked in the past anyway.
Last year, they censored certain names. If you mentioned Masters, or Augusta, your course would either be renamed or deleted. This year it sounds like they'll be stepping it up a notch - but we'll see... (You can't use them in career mode anyway.)
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
Anyone got this yesterday?
Yep. I think it's fantastic. Best golf game I've ever played, in terms of the gameplay. It's nightmarishly hard to hit a straight shot, and online it seems like most people (in matchmaking) are as bad as me!

Concentration really, really rewards you. It's superb.
 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
Yep. I think it's fantastic. Best golf game I've ever played, in terms of the gameplay. It's nightmarishly hard to hit a straight shot, and online it seems like most people (in matchmaking) are as bad as me!

Concentration really, really rewards you. It's superb.
You paid full price on PC?!

wished the career mode was deeper and earning XP meant something. See review above.

Edit: I’m really not sure getting this today and play some golf over the weekend or get it in 2 weeks when first users are selling it for around 45 bucks (it’s 60 euro here in Germany).
 
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Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
You paid full price on PC?!
On PS4. It makes a hell of a noise but my PC won't run it...

It's absolutely without doubt the best and most satisfying golf game I've ever played, and I've been playing them since the Nick Faldo game on the Amiga. Links 2003 was my previous favourite - this overtakes it.

However, they've made the best golf game ever, and put a huge fucking exploit in it - if you play matchmaking.

If you play online matchmaking and you're about to win, your opponent will quit, EVERY TIME. I've just wasted the last two hours of my life.

When they quit, you aren't awarded the win, and they aren't penalised.

Imagine you've been concentrating for two hours, and you've got to this point THREE TIMES in THREE SEPARATE GAMES (you're just about to win)...

...and then...



Then you're kicked back to the main menu and you're given no win, no XP and no money.

What the living fuck are HB thinking? They make a game so good that I actually want to play it online (me, who hates online games), and then make it so that nobody will ever be allowed to win?
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
Gamepplay sounds promising! @Chris Davies have you played the golf club 2019? Is the gameplay different?
Yeah I played TGC 2019 in the TGC Tours leagues for about six months on and off. I didn't like the Career Mode for many reasons, but online was good fun.

In the previous game, the hardest swing difficulty was Master, which was hard to grasp but would give you a distance advantage if you could.

In the new game, the default difficulty (Pro, and that's what you have to use in matchmaking) is even harder than Master was. It's super sensitive, especially if (like me) you keep flying into "overswing" territory.

Hitting a good shot is now the exception, not the rule (for most, anyway - there are still some absolute Gods playing online, as there always will be in any game). That "exception not the rule" is absolutely how it should be.

It feels brilliant to have to keep absolute concentration for every shot, and the sense of accomplishment in getting a birdie is massive - you feel like you have beaten the course.

The Career Mode is as good as it can be - they only have 14 of 33 events on licensed courses, but the fictional courses are of a good quality, and they're realistic designs. Due to the fact they're selling course DLC soon, and 2K don't want to get sued, you can't swap out the fake courses for RCR's (Real Course Recreations made by the game's dedicated community) in Career Mode. You can only use them in private matches, or "Online Societies" (like TGC Tours, which are a brilliant experience).

Matchmaking is completely and totally pointless, and broken, and it was the same last year (and was never changed). They seem to think every player has a heart of gold and is only quitting (when they're losing) because they've left the oven on, or their curtains are on fire etc...

What else is bad? Player graphics are terrible, in all honesty. I'm happy with the golfer I've created but the faces in general are from the PS3 days. Really cartoony, with about eight hairstyles to choose from (which is pretty pathetic) and even skin colour is an issue. Someone has raised a point on the HB forum that their skin colour has been removed. It was there last year...

Also, you can't play AS any of the licensed pros in any mode, and you can't even play AGAINST them in any mode either. You see their highlights during your PGA Tour rounds, and you're challenged with beating them to unlock bigger sponsorship deals. That's it.

(What on earth have they bothered licensing them for, and recreating them for the highlights package that you'll turn off after your first round? Absolutely stupid.)

The commentary is repetitive (and really horribly delivered) too, but that doesn't bother me in all honesty, and Rich Beem has been given full license to come out with whatever random thoughts popped into his head at the record so it can be quite funny. The on-course tournament sounds (the crowd reacting to events on other parts of the course) are pretty cool - it's just a shame that they're so static to look at. The sound that plays can be screaming and hollering, while the people in the crowds are standing there closed-mouthed, clapping softly.

But everything else is fantastic, IMO. The leaderboard have their own AI skill level (which we can't see directly) and there are even sliders so that you can set exactly how challenging they are, and how much their skill level is allowed to vary tournament to tournament - there's even a separate slider for their skill variance day to day.

It's 10/10 gameplay with 7/10 graphics, 7/10 sound and 6/10 licensing implementation. In terms of online play, Online Societies is one of the best and most enjoyable online game modes I've played in any game - and the matchmaking one of the worst - but it deserves an 8/10 for the societies alone. Nothing beats playing the same tournament with friends (all locked to the same difficulty settings) and seeing each other go up and down the leaderboard.

It reminds me of the glory days of PES - the gameplay is a revelation, and that's all that matters...
 
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