Proposed EU law could affect PES OFs

Chris Davies

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
UK
Tranmere Rovers
So I've just read the following Kotaku article...

Kotaku: Proposed EU Copyright Law Could Cause Problems For Fan Content In Games

This is pretty worrying - because it is squarely aimed at removing user-created copyrighted content from games (that's every real club badge/kit out there).

The one glimmer of hope that I have is that it's worded to apply to an in-game "store-front" type of distribution - so that built-in option file sharing solution I've suggested PES could feature for years (meaning no USB sticks etc.) would no longer be allowed.

But if this becomes law, I bet it wouldn't take long for the unlicensed teams to point at PES option files and say "how come you're not clamping down on THIS copyright content, your honour?" - and it'd be Sony pulling the plug, not Konami.

Scary.
 
They cannot force Konami to remove the importing options, because Konami is not "encouraging" users to use it for unlicensed teams. It could well be there to create your own 'fantasy' clubs.

So I can't see this being a problem, mate.
 
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Chuny said:
They cannot force Konami to remove the importing options, because Konami is not "encouraging" users to use it for unlicensed teams. It could well be there to create your own 'fantasy' clubs.

So I can't see this being a problem, mate.
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The article talks about bots scanning for copyright phrases and copyrighted content - you could say Star Wars skins for Minecraft are fantasy skins, but if it's from Star Wars, it's copyrighted and it'll be removed. Same if it's Man United.

This all comes from rights holders wanting modders to stop putting their content in games, unofficially, without them seeing any money for it.

It's a dark road.
 
I'm having no doubt that it will effect all copyright material including option files,if clubs will impose it?
Don't know,but it's gonna hit our "free" internet hard,no doubt.
 
Chris Davies said:
The article talks about bots scanning for copyright phrases and copyrighted content - you could say Star Wars skins for Minecraft are fantasy skins, but if it's from Star Wars, it's copyrighted and it'll be removed. Same if it's Man United.

This all comes from rights holders wanting modders to stop putting their content in games, unofficially, without them seeing any money for it.

It's a dark road.
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Online it surely might be it if this pass, but if the structure of the game remains the usual I guess at least offline a way to bypass this stuff would be find pretty sure.

Then if Konami go on EA route of constant updates and active war to any sort of modding we are screwed. But they don't have EA licenses, unless a third find a way to force them do it (not so easy I think) I see them conveniently turning a blind eye whenever possible.

This, speaking of pc of course.. console guys would sadly be 100% screwed.
 
UGH. Bloody greedy bastards. They could just monetise or something off fan content and embrace this way of promotion but no
 
Interesting development, this.

Presumably there's a jurisdiction issue, though, for us UK players... So even if it got bad with content-sniffing bots, etc., we would fall outside the EU ruling. (Brexit has a silver lining after all...)

Another thought: at the moment, in the UK our copyright law involves the notion of fair dealing (different but shares some similarities with the US law notion of fair use), which is a little vague, but it could potentially expand to cover private use of copyrighted images. So long as the images are not circulated commercially, I'm not sure the users would be liable; and so long as the whole process isn't commercial, I'm not sure Konami would be liable either.

But I'm no legal expert. Maybe there's an argument about the editing options being of commercial appeal themselves (which, let's face it, they are).
 
I've got to say, you can't help but feel some responsibility has to fall on the likes of PES Universe charging money for option files which contain imagery such as kits and brands then don't actually own or hold rights to distribute.

Not only is this immoral from a community & modding culture standpoint but surely sets a legal precedent in regards to copyrights holders rightfully feeling like there's revenue being generated and they don't even see any of it?
 
MafiaMurderBag said:
I've got to say, you can't help but feel some responsibility has to fall on the likes of PES Universe charging money for option files which contain imagery such as kits and brands then don't actually own or hold rights to distribute.

Not only is this immoral from a community & modding culture standpoint but surely sets a legal precedent in regards to copyrights holders rightfully feeling like there's revenue being generated and they don't even see any of it?
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Couldn't agree more. Their 'you don't have to pay' is a bullshit cop-out when they set their stall out to make the payment option the most attractive option. They've changed the editing community for the worse.

They set out to profit from people's impulsiveness.
 
As usual the coporations trying to seize a monopoly through greed and money!

What hurts is PES Universe mission is to help Konami combat this aggressive attack from EA on licencing yet i see this:

MafiaMurderBag said:
I've got to say, you can't help but feel some responsibility has to fall on the likes of PES Universe charging money for option files which contain imagery such as kits and brands then don't actually own or hold rights to distribute.

Not only is this immoral from a community & modding culture standpoint but surely sets a legal precedent in regards to copyrights holders rightfully feeling like there's revenue being generated and they don't even see any of it?
Click to expand...

The money paid goes to the USB, we can't send out free USB sticks, all we do along with send a USB is prepare all the content with it provided and a donation if you wish to sign up. All our copyrighted content is free, always was free and always will be free. We have always said this but thanks to certain 'others' with agendas it seemed as if people believed the hype about us charging people for option files which was always false. The memberships are just about people having the choice to support our group to build quality content for the benefit of PES. PES isn't that big of a game and non of us make any money from this, all the funds we get just get reinvested into what we do, The amount of money it costs to run the site eats up the revenue we receive.

rockstrongo said:
I never understood how they've (Pes universe) has got away with this?
Let alone people paying for it?
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Again, we are not getting away with anything, people don't have to pay anything, all our licenced content will always be and always has been free.

NIK778899 said:
Couldn't agree more. Their 'you don't have to pay' is a bullshit cop-out when they set their stall out to make the payment option the most attractive option.
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Cop out? This is what I mean with the agenda from the 'other' group. Don't want to get further into it but the poison has really set in. The reason the other group never did this is because everything is just about one guy where as we are a team of people all over the world.

They've changed the editing community for the worse.
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No, mercenaries did this years and years ago on ebay along with the quadruple adfly mazes you have to navigate to download anything from a mercenary stealing someone else work for ad revenue. I used to use Adfly but I've stopped now and when i get time I will remove all adfly from my site, its just annoying now and makes it a pain for people to visit my site.

They set out to profit from people's impulsiveness.
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No, we set out to create a group which can help keep PES alive with quality content. Paying for USB has always been around with no issue, funny how now there such a bad, negative vibe on it because of hype, free downloads like we do are always available.

I swear this poisonous vibe is because we have jobs, lives and i'm a bit used to discussing things in our group chat to be on here as much as i used to has set in due to lack of communication. It hurts to set us painted as this big evil anti PES group where we all where and are the PES community coming together to create the bet content collectively possible to help Konami and benefit the game.
 
klashman69 said:
As usual the coporations trying to seize a monopoly through greed and money!

What hurts is PES Universe mission is to help Konami combat this aggressive attack from EA on licencing yet i see this:



The money paid goes to the USB, we can't send out free USB sticks, all we do along with send a USB is prepare all the content with it provided and a donation if you wish to sign up. All our copyrighted content is free, always was free and always will be free. We have always said this but thanks to certain 'others' with agendas it seemed as if people believed the hype about us charging people for option files which was always false. The memberships are just about people having the choice to support our group to build quality content for the benefit of PES. PES isn't that big of a game and non of us make any money from this, all the funds we get just get reinvested into what we do, The amount of money it costs to run the site eats up the revenue we receive.



Again, we are not getting away with anything, people don't have to pay anything, all our licenced content will always be and always has been free.



Cop out? This is what I mean with the agenda from the 'other' group. Don't want to get further into it but the poison has really set in. The reason the other group never did this is because everything is just about one guy where as we are a team of people all over the world.



No, mercenaries did this years and years ago on ebay along with the quadruple adfly mazes you have to navigate to download anything from a mercenary stealing someone else work for ad revenue. I used to use Adfly but I've stopped now and when i get time I will remove all adfly from my site, its just annoying now and makes it a pain for people to visit my site.



No, we set out to create a group which can help keep PES alive with quality content. Paying for USB has always been around with no issue, funny how now there such a bad, negative vibe on it because of hype, free downloads like we do are always available.

I swear this poisonous vibe is because we have jobs, lives and i'm a bit used to discussing things in our group chat to be on here as much as i used to has set in due to lack of communication. It hurts to set us painted as this big evil anti PES group where we all where and are the PES community coming together to create the bet content collectively possible to help Konami and benefit the game.
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So if I send you a usb and a prepaid envelope, then you'll do this for free,for the good of the community?

And why do you think most Pes players sees you as you describe us seeing you?
 
rockstrongo said:
So if I send you a usb and a prepaid envelope, then you'll do this for free,for the good of the community?
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What we do is you pay for a USB from us and we put files on that USB all sorted for you along with our free content.

See whats happened is propaganda from the 'other man'.

If you buy a USB and send it to me, i can put all the files on there for you but you can do this yourself for free anyway without needing to pay us anything.
 
klashman69 said:
Cop out? This is what I mean with the agenda from the 'other' group. Don't want to get further into it but the poison has really set in.
Click to expand...

I'm not in the 'other' group or any other group for that matter. I judge it on how I see it.

klashman69 said:
The reason the other group never did this is because everything is just about one guy where as we are a team of people all over the world
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You appear to have an issue with Glen, there. As I say, my view is nothing to do with him.


klashman69 said:
No, mercenaries did this years and years ago on ebay along with the quadruple adfly mazes you have to navigate to download anything from a mercenary stealing someone else work for ad revenue. I used to use Adfly but I've stopped now and when i get time I will remove all adfly from my site, its just annoying now and makes it a pain for people to visit my site.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but many a year ago, Glen called you out for stealing a kit he'd done (Ireland GK shirt if I remember correctly) so this position is a bit rich.

klashman69 said:
No, we set out to create a group which can help keep PES alive with quality content. Paying for USB has always been around with no issue, funny how now there such a bad, negative vibe on it because of hype, free downloads like we do are always available.
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https://www.pesuniverse.com/product/pes-2019-diamond-membership/
Not just a USB, is it?

Your other membership tiers aren't about USB sticks either, in fact there's only one specific option that covers the cost of USB. It's all there on your website; "early access to download" is playing on people's impulsiveness. Give us.your money and you can download it early (no USB involved).
 
klashman69 said:
What we do is you pay for a USB from us and we put files on that USB all sorted for you along with our free content.

See whats happened is propaganda from the 'other man'.

If you buy a USB and send it to me, i can put all the files on there for you but you can do this yourself for free anyway without needing to pay us anything.
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Well if is unable to do so, would you be willing to do it for free for him in the scenario described?
 
klashman69 said:
What we do is you pay for a USB from us and we put files on that USB all sorted for you along with our free content.

See whats happened is propaganda from the 'other man'.
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Not buying that answer "propaganda from the other man"
No,it's criticism from us,not the other man.
Unless you call us "the other man"?

And the first question,I understsnd your "business model"
But you didn't answer my question,what if we send you the USB and prepaid freight?

Edit: saw that you did edit your post
Thanks for clearing that up,I'd expect a few of Pes players doing just that..
 
NIK778899 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but many a year ago, Glen called you out for stealing a kit he'd done (Ireland GK shirt if I remember correctly) so this position is a bit rich.
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No it isn't at all becuase when he falsely accuses others about stealing his work to try and distract from the fact he's not done anything and looks to exploit others they he can control. Just don't go there, i can tell you all about the real story of whats been going down, I have nothing to hide whatsoever. Don't get me started on what they do on reddit btw I could be here all day talking about this I really could. The truth about that is he was so angry PES Universe got their EURO 2016 pack done before he did it was his strategy to smear us.

The whole reason Barry started PES Universe was because nobody can work with the other guy, it has to all be about him. We have tried, many of us have tried to be mature but this was holding the community back.

NIK778899 said:
https://www.pesuniverse.com/product/pes-2019-diamond-membership/
Click to expand...
NIK778899 said:
Not just a USB, is it?

Your other membership tiers aren't about USB sticks either, in fact there's only one specific option that covers the cost of USB. It's all there on your website; "early access to download" is playing on people's impulsiveness. Give us.your money and you can download it early (no USB involved).
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Right, so we are going to give you a t-shirt for free? right, please find me a website which gives out free t-shirts for nothing? Along with other goodies such as stickers etc..

BTW Early access means you get it as soon as we get all the files together and upload which could include issues, possibly errors and bugs, or you could wait a bit for the fully fledged bug-less version which is completely free. Its up to you! There is no obligation for anyone to do this, its if you want to fully support our project so along with things you normally pay for such as a USB and a T-shirt which in any case you always pay for.

You know what the worst thing about this is. PES Universe was setup by the community, for the community as a central hub to deliver news and content about the game and help get people into PES. We care about the game, we stopped the sidemen from getting in early and delivering trashy feedback to spoil the gameplay. That may disappear and the youtubers maybe back, again giving rubbish feedback and detrimental to all of our enjoyment for the game.

You can go about, find some trusted people and do you own PES Community side with content like we do, infact i can help you if you want, i don't care, i'm here becuase i love football! There is nothing stopping you whatsoever from doing your own content, running your own platform and site. This is what really annoys me, your acting like we are outsides looking to exploit people, straight from the poisonous mouth of the other, we are all and have been part of this community for years and years and we come together to make a platform yet we receive all this hate for having optional monetised memberships?
 
klashman69 said:
No it isn't at all becuase when he falsely accuses others about stealing his work to try and distract from the fact he's not done anything and looks to exploit others they he can control. Just don't go there, i can tell you all about the real story of whats been going down, I have nothing to hide whatsoever. Don't get me started on what they do on reddit btw I could be here all day talking about this I really could. The truth about that is he was so angry PES Universe got their EURO 2016 pack done before he did it was his strategy to smear us.
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Mate, I clearly remember the tweets with the evidence. It was quite clear for everyone to see that it had been stolen.

klashman69 said:
The whole reason Barry started PES Universe was because nobody can work with the other guy, it has to all be about him. We have tried, many of us have tried to be mature but this was holding the community back.
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I don't agree that he was holding the community back. He has a team of people that work with him in the same way you lot do. You lot don't get on and that's fine, whatever, but I can assure you that I judge it as I see it from a neutral position. I prefer their work and the way they present themselves to the community, but I have no affiliation or self-interest to think badly of you other than my own personal experience.

klashman69 said:
Right, so we are going to give you a t-shirt for free? right, please find me a website which gives out free t-shirts for nothing? Along with other goodies such as stickers etc..

BTW Early access means you get it as soon as we get all the files together and upload which could include issues, possibly errors and bugs, or you could wait a bit for the fully fledged bug-less version which is completely free. Its up to you! There is no obligation for anyone to do this, its if you want to fully support our project so along with things you normally pay for such as a USB and a T-shirt which in any case you always pay for.

You know what the worst thing about this is. PES Universe was setup by the community, for the community as a central hub to deliver news and content about the game and help get people into PES. We care about the game, we stopped the sidemen from getting in early and delivering trashy feedback to spoil the gameplay. That may disappear and the youtubers maybe back, again giving rubbish feedback and detrimental to all of our enjoyment for the game.

You can go about, find some trusted people and do you own PES Community side with content like we do, infact i can help you if you want, i don't care, i'm here becuase i love football! There is nothing stopping you whatsoever from doing your own content, running your own platform and site. This is what really annoys me, your acting like we are outsides looking to exploit people, straight from the poisonous mouth of the other, we are all and have been part of this community for years and years and we come together to make a platform yet we receive all this hate for having optional monetised memberships?
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Of course there's no obligation and I never said there was, however you present someone with the option of having the file sooner for money. You play on that person's impulsiveness to want it straight away insteae of waiting and you profit off it. That, my friend, is bullshit and is the exact opposite of what a community, and specifically this community, is about.

If any of you have pocketed a single penny of the membership money then you're in it for the money. If you weren't you'd offer the same service to all and allow donations.
 
NIK778899 said:
Mate, I clearly remember the tweets with the evidence. It was quite clear for everyone to see that it had been stolen.


I don't agree that he was holding the community back. He has a team of people that work with him in the same way you lot do. You lot don't get on and that's fine, whatever, but I can assure you that I judge it as I see it from a neutral position. I prefer their work and the way they present themselves to the community, but I have no affiliation or self-interest to think badly of you other than my own personal experience.


Of course there's no obligation and I never said there was, however you present someone with the option of having the file sooner for money. You play on that person's impulsiveness to want it straight away insteae of waiting and you profit off it. That, my friend, is bullshit and is the exact opposite of what a community, and specifically this community, is about.

If any of you have pocketed a single penny of the membership money then you're in it for the money. If you weren't you'd offer the same service to all and allow donations.
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I've PM'ed you the truth about that Ireland kit and Glen's nonsense. Like i said it was all hype and a lie.

Again i'm not having this, it's not bullshit at all and not exploitative. having access to a file as soon as its complied and uploaded without all the checked done as a small thank you for signing up with a paid membership along with other physical content we send to you as a small thank you is not exploiting people whatsoever especially when they have the option to pay nothing and wait for the fully fledged version. If early access is all we offered for money, that is of course exploitation however as clearly stated it isn't. It goes back to what i said already. You can make make a PES platform site yourself and then you will hit that wall of how can we make this sustainable year to year?

Again regarding the money, i have PM'ed you exactly the truth in how little we make, there are many people involved at PES Universe and its impossible from the little we make for any of use to be paid from our work with a shared amount.
 
klashman69 said:
I've PM'ed you the truth about that Ireland kit and Glen's nonsense. Like i said it was all hype and a lie.

Again i'm not having this, it's not bullshit at all and not exploitative. having access to a file as soon as its complied and uploaded without all the checked done as a small thank you for signing up with a paid membership along with other physical content we send to you as a small thank you is not exploiting people whatsoever especially when they have the option to pay nothing and wait for the fully fledged version. If early access is all we offered for money, that is of course exploitation however as clearly stated it isn't. It goes back to what i said already. You can make make a PES platform site yourself and then you will hit that wall of how can we make this sustainable year to year?

Again regarding the money, i have PM'ed you exactly the truth in how little we make, there are many people involved at PES Universe and its impossible from the little we make for any of use to be paid from our work with a shared amount.
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I've PM'd you back and as I said in that, offering early access is exploitive, remove that from your membership system and I have no issue or reason to be critical.
 
Ok, well that is up to Barry when it comes to the early access, some people really love it becuase they see it differently as a thank you for supporting the site, i'm very neutral on this hence why i have defended it, becuase there is always the free option. maybe its just me getting a little older which makes me patient so the fact everything is free eventually after its thoroughly checked over.
 
Thanks for providing a response @klashman69 - good to have both sides of it.

With the proposed EU law (which was the original topic of the thread ;))) rejected at this stage - though I believe it's not been outright rejected from coming back in the future - I'm going to close the thread for now.
 
Re-opened this thread, because it really does put the future of PES option files in a very dark place.

Original article: Kotaku - Proposed EU Copyright Law Could Cause Problems For Fan Content In Games

I closed this thread because it was a proposition last year, and it didn't look like people were stupid enough to make it a law, but guess what! They aaaaaaaaaarrrrrreeeee!

It's going ahead, and with the amount of intellectual property that is included in option files (club logos, kits etc.) I really can't see this not affecting PES, especially on console.
 
Terrible news. I really can't pat myself on the back that I never doubted it'll pass, because this is just terrible.
 
Chuny said:
That sucks.

But we welcome you all into the PC world, where nothing is impossible :D

All aboard....!
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It'll be literally against the law whether it's on PC or console - but of course, it'll probably be easier to "get away with it" on PC, granted.

If no rights holders complain, we'll be okay - but what do you think are the odds on that, when all it takes is one solicitor to find out what option files are...

In-fact (and I say this as someone who hates the "EA are evil" narrative), I totally expect someone at EA to talk to their licensed partners and say "that's illegal now, get suing, for our mutual benefit".
 
But presumably it will still be okay for people to pay the football clubs to wear their branded clothing with club logos and emblems on their clothing. Thus freely advertising for these clubs who might sue for infringing the said intellectual property in a game? The world is an arse.
 
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