Serie A - It's a bit crap, really

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Adonis said:
well I have to hold my hands up and say you got me on that one.

You're absolutely correct when you say I dont follow French football. I guess a lot of people do have the same thoughts about that league as I do. Ive simply just gone off reports here and there.

The only team that gets mentioned from that league is ofcourse Lyon. And that is only because of some outstanding performances in the CL.

But sorry if I offended anyone when classing that league as 'crap'.

I have been told ;)
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No problem Adonis.

I just went off by my instinct that you dont follow Ligue 1 and I was correct but it's great for you to admit that and I appreciate the honesty ;)

In general though you can bet what i'm about to say in following IS A FACT lol or at least seems to be case 99 times out of 100:

IF a person is not giving Ligue 1 (France) the respect it deserves such as him thinking his league (EPL, Serie A, La Liga) is WAY ahead or better in quality than Ligue 1 or he is let's say Portuguese/Dutch or Scottish and thinks his own league is as good as Ligue 1, it is a person who doesn't FOLLOW Ligue 1 and only knows about it as much as the media/avg/casual fans SAYS about it hence Lyon Lyon lyon.

Because trust me I have no French roots or actually have any liking for French people in general more so than others (lol no offense Thomas and all other French friends here ;) ) but I'm neutral and I follow these top leagues and I really see the gap in difference and it is not much between the top #5 but somehow for some stupid ass reason (most likely dumb media from England/Italy/Spain) these countries think somehow their league is miles ahead or that Ligue 1 is all about Lyon where in fact this is the only league that you have two of the biggest teams in country consistently finish outside top 3-4 and always mid-table teams (of which there is by the way like 13 clubs lol not 4-6 like other leagues) breaking into first 2-3 every few years and even challenging for title like Nantes did and won few years back and then Lens did and last year Lille were the major challengers) while PSG and Marseille consistently under-achieve where as in other leagues, when was last time you saw Milan/Juve or Arsenal/Man Utd finish outside top 4? the top 3-4 places are almost always the same with this year hopefully Spurs being able to getin there but it's been relatively the same of course some varieants are there like Udinese being there last season but in general I think for many years to come we can guess that in Italy:

The top 4 will include 3 teams of Inter, Milan and Juve MOST likely where as in France you can't say same. Best you can say is most likely it'll have Lyon in top 4 for years to come but you can't say same about any other team. It's very surprsing and every team has enough to take on another one and beat them. I myself think Lyon/Chelsea and Barca along with Juve and Bayern are the top 5 teams in Europe right now and best contenders for CL winners but just before winter break, Lille went to Stade Gerland and with some brilliant tactics from Claude Puel managed to shock Lyon with a 3-1 defeat!

Anyways enough about Ligue 1 as I realize i'm going off topic and this is about Serie A which I also have a lot to say about but what i did say in Bold above is TRUE!

Cuz those who actually follow Ligue 1 closely AS Well as their own league (there are some like some Dutch/Portuguese friends of mine and English and ITalians) admit their league (EPL, Serie A) is not as much better as casual fan seems to think so than Ligue 1 and the Portuguese/Dutch ones admit half the country is dreaming when they compare themselves and say their league is almost as good as Ligue 1 if not better.. so half of SPL is dreaming too :lol:

Anyways that's enough rant out of me for tonight.

See ya guys later.
 
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For me in terms of quality Ligue 1 is the 3rd Best League in Europe.
In first place for me its La Liga, with the best players in the world and an atractive football.
Second place is Premiership, not a very atractive football, but atacking footbal wich is atractive lol but not a great league considering tactics.
Ligue 1 has atractive football, atacking football and tactical games as well.

But my favorite is Serie i love tactical games and they have best players in the world like La Liga but almost the times they just defend wich is not atractive.
 
Good you're a person I respect and admire knwledge of Chazy as you know.

And you're Portuguese and think of Ligue 1 so highly right?
 
Seria A crap???Total nonsense.No real argument is needed watch it more and look less for the "blockbuster" matches and look more for the complete ability to play football. PS Luca Toni is something else Watched him today and he ws unlucky not to get his hat-trick.
 
Milanista said:
This guy is 26 and he cant even construct an argument... :roll: To believe hes a mod too.

Rocky, Belgian league? What about Liechtenstein?
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Oh grow up. I constructed an argument that you didn't like. I think Serie A is a bit crap, but you don't. Lets agree to disagree.
 
I heard the EPL has the lowest scoring average a game this season. It's going down. Every league is going down guys, be honest. The market has made it impossible to just enjoy the game. Fuck, even over here in Holland there's football on several different channels. I can't understand why you guys keep coming up with how great your league is just because a few good players are in it. Every top team has 25 foreign top players who are paid 5 million a year and there's no way you can identify with that. I never hear constructive opinions on how to improve the game for the average fan. All you guys can come up with is facts why your league is so good. It's hard I know, but looking at the bigger picture might help. Just try it, it will expand your horizon.
 
@PLF: I think the idea that Ligue 1 is much lesser than EPL, Serie A and La Liga is because French teams have won very few big prizes. And all the top players play in Spain, England, Italy and Germany. Just like the case is with players from Holland and Portugal, so they rate French league the same as those ones, or even less as Portugese and Dutch teams have won more prizes than the French teams.

About Serie A, yes its been better, but EPL is also not much better in quality.
 
Can't believe someone practically hours after watching that suppossed football game with Man U and Liverpool say another game is crap. :shock:

The recent games involving the big guns have been woeful to say the least. PLF does have a lot of football knowledge, but to say 'West Ham vs West Brom' or whatever it was over Juventus and Italy is mind boggling thought to say the least, whether it's preference or not (unless you support one of the teams or it has a big say in one of your team's outcome).


FD
 
I have to say that in the EPL only Chelsea plays anything good, Liverpool only now and then plays something nice. I prefer the Serie A in the end because of simply I prefer a more tactical aproach to football.
The French league has quality, and the Dutch/Portuguese/Belgian are miles behing the French league.

Saying the EPL is the best league in the world is an arrogant statement. But then again it's about personal opinion. Each to it's own.(league)
 
It's not arrogant!? What planet do you come from? It is my opinion which I am entitled to. Serie A hasn't evolved and these 'amazing' players that play in it are getting on now. Totti, Maldini and co are on their last few seasons, surely.
As for the Dutch league - it is a joke. Why do you think Channel 5 host a match late every Thursday? Because it works better than NIGHTNURSE, thats why.
 
how could you say that Ninjabreakz? The Dutch league is the best in the world with players like Nkaka, Tim Bakens, Joost Broerse and Kurt Elshot. We all kow who I'm talking about here!
Before starting to insult the best league in the world, you should focus on losing weight and get over the idea that a blow-up doll can be considered a girlfriend. Not in the real world cowboy! So get off that doll, leave the house and start smelling the fresh country air that Wales has to offer. Talking about Wales, they have some great club teams as well man!.
 
fd1972uk said:
Can't believe someone practically hours after watching that suppossed football game with Man U and Liverpool say another game is crap. :shock:

The recent games involving the big guns have been woeful to say the least. PLF does have a lot of football knowledge, but to say 'West Ham vs West Brom' or whatever it was over Juventus and Italy is mind boggling thought to say the least, whether it's preference or not (unless you support one of the teams or it has a big say in one of your team's outcome).

FD
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Well that's just personal preference FD. We all have our own taste and should respect each other's. No I don't support West Ham or West Brom or any team in European football actually yet I follow 5 leagues best I can and always a neutral supporter. This is just down to my personal preference because to me those relegatoin battles I've seen last season and previous seasons from EPL give me more entertaining than the so called "Milan vs. Juve" matches! Also don't find this strange but some people actually have this idea that is 2 teams aren't TOP, the matches aren't worth watching or it will be low quality which I find very strange again :lol:

These teams and players are all of the 5 TOP leagues in world we're talking about. Each team right down to bench of "Worst" teams in each division are among best footballers in world and deserve to get own respect and yes best matches I do see are low vs. Low or Low vs. Mid-table or sometimes Top team vs. Low team but I watch them all.. don't have a preference to watch top vs. top only .. all are good to me.

That is not to say I don't watch Serie A. I enjoy it to its own use though.. I don't say which is better either because I CANT say. For me all the top 5 leagues are quite different, quite different style and although Bundesliga and Ligue 1, I can admit as a REALIST are a bit behind the big 3, I can never say which in big 3 is best but I can say out of entertainment, I like EPL the best but I follow La Liga, Serie A and other 3 leagues as well cuz I enjoy them all and think they each offer something different!
Revan said:
I have to say that in the EPL only Chelsea plays anything good, Liverpool only now and then plays something nice. I prefer the Serie A in the end because of simply I prefer a more tactical aproach to football.
The French league has quality, and the Dutch/Portuguese/Belgian are miles behing the French league.

Saying the EPL is the best league in the world is an arrogant statement. But then again it's about personal opinion. Each to it's own.(league)
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It might sound arrogant Revan, but it's his personal opinion. We all can agree to disagree with him but surely he can state his own opinion.

Regarding the bolded part, you're another user I've been impressed with reading from here and there and agree with many things you said in few other Football topics as well, can't remember which ;)

Big Boss said:
@PLF: I think the idea that Ligue 1 is much lesser than EPL, Serie A and La Liga is because French teams have won very few big prizes. And all the top players play in Spain, England, Italy and Germany. Just like the case is with players from Holland and Portugal, so they rate French league the same as those ones, or even less as Portugese and Dutch teams have won more prizes than the French teams.

About Serie A, yes its been better, but EPL is also not much better in quality.
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That's a good point Big Boss but to be honest it shouldn't matter as much as it DOES. (Then again when we're talking about casual fans, this is usually all they care about, top teams top teams who won who is top of league.. very basic look at everything). Like I said many times and like Don mentioned on last page though, the TOP teams of a country are only 1 of the 100 factors that determine how good a league is and what I said is still true. There is no person that FOLLOWS Ligue 1 religiously and isn't impressed by its level of play, level of players quality and thinks its in same level as Dutch/Portuguese. Only ones that think so are those who dont follow but go with what dumbass media, commentators or general people say.

Also keep in mind I have nothing to do with the French (can't even speak French despite living in bilingual-country :( ) so i have no obvious bias there. Just my own observations after watching these leagues and their evolvement in past 4-6 years.

It is by FAR the most under-rated league and that's because it's not in spotlight, in other countries much outside France although it is getting better.

So in short I totally understand your point BigBoss and it's correct, they haven't done shit really except Monaco reaching Finals couple years back but I think for those casual fans who say Ligue 1 is not good cuz they dont follow it, a French team WINNING it won't do much either. Then they'll just have this stupid thought that Lyon is ONLY thing in France and the league is still crap but one good team.. so in conclusion winning or not winning it will make some impact but at end of the day the only way you can judge a league's REAL quality is if you watch that league very often (2 matches per week at least) and most important watch matches from all sorts of teams not just big ones or small ones.

My 2 cents again lol :)

Also regarding the TOP players play in Spain/Italy/England, I disagree to a small extent. What you guys REALLY mean is that the "World's most FAMOUS" players play in those 3 leagues. Cuz quality wise I can show you players who are struggliny to get a starting place in Lens but will move to Spurs or another EPL team and become automatic 1st choice and one of the best in the league. Then you have playrs from 2nd division clubs Le Havre moving to Chelsea (although he's a just a reserve player, I know not a good example). Point is there is some great quality players there.. both young and old at all levels at all positions only difference between the likes of them and the likes in England/Italy/Spain is that they're not in INTERNATIONAL spotlight since the league doesn't get the same HYPE those 3 do. Also these defendings I'm doing of Ligue 1 also goes for Bundesliga keep in mind.. they're not far behind big 3 either. Not as big as those fans think so anyway.

So were Lille's players really THAT lower in terms of quality than one of the best teams in England, Man Utd??? They are lower.. I admit knowing these players one by one and actually figuring out stats for them but the gap is NOWHERE Near as much as Man Utd fans and English people think so due to their over-rated thoughts and under-rated ones about Ligue 1 and that's why they come and get surprised. This isn't a go at English fans either by the way.. the Italians I've seen think the same about their own league and that its miles better than other ones and Ligue 1 and same with Spanish. This is why the point Milanista made is very important that WHERE ARE YOU HAVING THIS DISCUSSION?? Is it in an english-based forum, Italian or Spanish or French or German? Cuz in whatever one you do, you'll find the results are extremely in favour of their own league and I can't blame them. They each have top top leagues and people usually prefer their own if it's great quality.

I think all these top 5 are excellent and full of enjoyment/entertainment thats why i do best to keep up with all of them plus some "Other" football from around Europe when I can like Eredivisie/Superliga even Turkey cuz I enjoy all those as well to a lesser level as an avid hardcore football fan.

Important thing here is to be a "Realist" and put the biaseness in us away and look at big picture :)
 
ninjabreakz said:
It's not arrogant!? What planet do you come from? It is my opinion which I am entitled to. Serie A hasn't evolved and these 'amazing' players that play in it are getting on now. Totti, Maldini and co are on their last few seasons, surely.
As for the Dutch league - it is a joke. Why do you think Channel 5 host a match late every Thursday? Because it works better than NIGHTNURSE, thats why.
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So your opinion is now FACT? Again your criticism of the Dutch league just shows your bias towards your own league. I personally enjoy watching the EPL when theres a good game, but not as much as the Serie A, doesnt mean its crap, and doesnt mean its FACT.

The so called known players you mentioned are just a small minority of Italian stars. Strange how so many of the new young ones have attracted interest from the EPL itself.
 
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PLF said:
Also one thing Milanista said here I think needs to be re-iterated. You might get a lot of support for EPL here and I myself am one (although like you I used to be a bigger Serie A fan back in the day) but you have to rememeber you're having this debate in a UK-based forum. You ask same thing in a Spanish forum and those people will tell you La Liga is far better than EPL and Serie A and you ask same thing from Italians they will definately tell you their league is by far #1.

My 2 cents for now.
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I mentioned this before, and I also said it more than once that its down to opinion. I dont rate leagues, but just watch them all. Ultimately, football is football, and you either have a good match or a bad match to watch. Chelsea-Liverpool may be more boring than Fiorentina-Palermo one year, while vice versa in another year.

What annoys me is ninjabreakz is continuously making it sound as like his opinion is pure fact.
 
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ninjabreakz said:
It's not arrogant!? What planet do you come from? It is my opinion which I am entitled to.
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Well all the rest of us think, IN OUR OPINION, that no league is better than any other. So if opinions count for anything, our collective opinions far outweigh your single opinion meaning if anyone is right, its us.
 
ninjabreakz said:
Wrong, Donny baby. Serie A is in DECLINE. Fact.
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ninjabreakz said:
It is my opinion which I am entitled to. Serie A hasn't evolved and these 'amazing' players that play in it are getting on now.
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So what is it? Fact or opinion? :roll:
 
I don't see the point to these threads cos we're not gonna have a civilised, unbiased discussion anyway.

I don't really get to watch much Italian or Spanish football - and tbh, I don't think anyone here has had an equal (and unbiased) coverage of all the major leagues to make a judgement anyway.
 
rockykabir said:
I don't see the point to these threads cos we're not gonna have a civilised, unbiased discussion anyway.

I don't really get to watch much Italian or Spanish football - and tbh, I don't think anyone here has had an equal (and unbiased) coverage of all the major leagues to make a judgement anyway.
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I was having a civilized, unbiased discussion without offending anyone yet getting my points across (Even though they may be long as maybe due to not having such great English, I can't summarize my points better to make them more efficient and shorter, nonetheless I don't think it's a big deal, if someone is interested in them will read it and if not he can scroll past my long posts).

Also I said plenty of times and most know have good enough coverage of top 5 leagues so I can watch at least 2 matches per week from each thank god due to my satelite and were unbiased so I have right to make the judgements I did :) (of course they're my opinons though, no facts or figures just my observations after watching football in a hardcore way for so many years).

So I think your post in general is true Rocky but doesn't apply to me or my posts in this thread. :)
 
Yeah PLF...I must admit that I haven't really read anything in the thread cos I had a feeling that the usual trash will be coming out :) - but fair play, having read some of your posts now, you have made some good points I spose ;)

But I'll say that all of us, deep down, has a team which we really feel for - and automatically, we'll have a bit of bias towards that league which that team is in....

Additionally, who is to judge our reasonings for liking a league? - some of us may like the defensive play, some like flair and some like fast paced stuff. To badly paraphrase what someone has said in a previous thread similar to this, "I don't love one league particularly more than the next one....I love football"
 
This is exactly what I said to Milanista on MSN.
Its a matter of preference. If you were a fan of players like Ronaldinho, the La Liga would appeal to you more cuz players have a lot of flair. But if you were a coach or an analyst, you'd probably like Serie A because of how its based on tactics and is more like a chess game.
 
Thats true in some ways, but I think the "tactical" Serie A, "skillfull" Liga etc dont reflect the leagues anymore. You can get a tactical game in the EPL like Arsenal-United and Betis-Villarreal, then have an extremely fast paced game in Bayern-HSV and Udinese-Sampdoria.

But like you said, its about personal preference.
 
I agree with your point but the Man Utd vs Arsenal is a bad example cuz thats more of a fight. :lol:
 
only a question :):

DO YOU KNOW WHY HENRY WENT TO ARSENAL ?

i'm waiting anyone reply at this question, and you can understand the good of serie a.
 
ninjabreakz said:
I am now very happy to have the best league in my country.

Serie A is in DECLINE.

Fact.
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I think for a moderator, you're doing an amazing amount of fishing in this topic. There is a difference between stating your opinion and blatantly trying to goad folk into arguing with you. :roll:

The EPL is in decline. Attendances are down, and as a competition it's non-existent - Chelsea have the thing wrapped up before Christmas once again (and let's be honest here, it'll be that way every season until Mourinho and/or Abramovich get bored).

Quality of football? It's down to personal taste but the 'big' games in England frequently bore me to tears these days (look at Chelsea vs Liverpool's many recent games, absolutely pathetic). Man Utd vs Liverpool just yesterday was also very unimpressive. By contrast a recent top game in Italy was Inter's 3-2 defeat of Milan, including a last-ditch winner.

Francesco Totti is about 29, hardly old when you consider players such as Chiesa, Zola, Larsson played/are still playing while being no spring chickens.

Personally I think you're just out to wind folk up, which is fine in moderation.

I prefer La Liga out of the three anyway, after that it depends on the teams playing but I'd rather watch Palermo, Messina or Parma than West Brom, Sunderland, Everton or Middlesbrough.
 
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UEFA OFFICIAL ! Best Ligue - 16 december

1 - Spain 66.748
2 - Italy 62.159
3 - England 59.915
4 - France 48.031
5 - Germany 45.739
6 - Portugal 43.041
7 - Holland 40.498
8 - Greece 32.081
9 - Belgium 30.250
10 - Scotland 29.875
 
rockykabir said:
Yeah PLF...I must admit that I haven't really read anything in the thread cos I had a feeling that the usual trash will be coming out :) - but fair play, having read some of your posts now, you have made some good points I spose ;)

But I'll say that all of us, deep down, has a team which we really feel for - and automatically, we'll have a bit of bias towards that league which that team is in....

Additionally, who is to judge our reasonings for liking a league? - some of us may like the defensive play, some like flair and some like fast paced stuff. To badly paraphrase what someone has said in a previous thread similar to this, "I don't love one league particularly more than the next one....I love football"
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Agreed like I said all along. I'm a football fan and enjoy all due to own reasons! :)

@Thomas, what are those based on? How many factors are there? Is there any guide to it or explanation you can put as well?

take care
 
PLF said:
@Thomas, what are those based on? How many factors are there? Is there any guide to it or explanation you can put as well?

take care
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In french :
explications pour l'attribution des points :
Une victoire en coupe d'Europe vaut 2 points, un match nul 1 point. La qualification pour les quarts de finale, les demi-finales et la finale dans les deux coupes d'Europe rapporte 1 point supplémentaire à chaque tour pour chaque équipe. La qualification pour la Ligue des Champions rapporte 3 points supplémentaires.
Les points obtenus dans les tours de qualification sont divisés par deux. Les résultats de la coupe Intertoto ne sont pas pris en compte.
Les points gagnés par les différents clubs d'un pays sont additionnés et divisés par le nombre de clubs qualifiés.

In English :
League coefficient
The league coefficient is used to rank the leagues of Europe, and thus determine the number of clubs from a league that will participate in competitions such as the UEFA Cup and the UEFA Champions League.

This coefficient is determined by the results of the clubs of the leagues over the past five seasons. The number of points awarded each season (two for each win by a club from that league, one for a draw) is divided by the number of teams that participated for that nation in that season. This number will rounded down to three decimal places (e.g. 2 2/3 will be rounded to 2.666).

For the league coefficient the season's league coefficients for the last five seasons must be added up. In the preliminary rounds of both the awarded points are halved. Bonus points are allocated for:

Qualifying for the Champions League group phase. (3 bonus points)
Reaching the second round of the Champions league.
Reaching the quarter, semi and final of both Champions League and UEFA cup.
The bonus points are added to the number of points scored in a season.
 
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