The Retro-PES Corner

Dzeko

Non-League
28 June 2018
Do you remember Classic Teams in PS2 PES?

Forever France
Genuine Germany
Always Argentina
Beloved Brazil
Immortal Italy

They were great additions!

Also there were lots of other legends in players..
 

miguelfcp

WYL | Porto
27 June 2009
@MafiaMurderBag: Appreciate the compliment, man. Absolutely, use it at will :) I think the more time passes, the more value retro-PES games will have, as modern games become more like "real-life simulations" than...actual games. And as much as playing with modern rosters is satisfying, I imagine what a kid could feel like if he fired up ISS PS1 and had access to hundreds of players he never heard of, which for him are "new" despite actually being...old :DD

@PesBuck: Bit by bit, he'll join the retro-fever...if he already likes the legends...there's hope for these younger generations!
 

Madmac79

Premiership
11 September 2006
I must say that I'm really getting kicked in the ass in ways that I would have never thought, in my Pes 2011 run. I've ended my first round of games at the middle of the table, 10 points or so from the first Europe League place, eliminated by Napoli from the national cup.

It's all damn difficult and after arriving third without too much struggles in D2, I don't know what to think.. it seems better teams do give a better challenge than the others after all. Or at least, that's my case.

Anyway, january indeed came and De la Pena was a huge disappointment; so huge I've of course not renewed his contract, and probably will play good ol' Ettori in his place for the rest of the season.
I've not renewed a bunch of others defaults I never play, like Lothar, Dodo, Iouga, Gutierrez and I don't remember who else, keeping only Hamsun (still young and a good alternative), Jaric (pretty much the same as the other guy) and Fouque (sentimental value.. he's just completely bad, unluckily, but he's stay with me until I conquer the world).

Only one sign and that's Kenwyne Jones, gigantic trinidad and tobago striker, promising in the past in Premier League even tho I've no idea what happened to him in the last years. He'll start in the eleven with both Shimizu and Schwarz, hope I'll save the season somehow.

Having a good genuine fun so far!
 
3 November 2009
England
Liverpool FC
@MafiaMurderBag: Appreciate the compliment, man. Absolutely, use it at will :) I think the more time passes, the more value retro-PES games will have, as modern games become more like "real-life simulations" than...actual games. And as much as playing with modern rosters is satisfying, I imagine what a kid could feel like if he fired up ISS PS1 and had access to hundreds of players he never heard of, which for him are "new" despite actually being...old :DD
Me and you think alike. I was thinking about this recently not just in regards to football games but gaming in general. They've advanced so much in 19 years since the PS1's peak that we may have longed for hyper realism and now it's here it's a feeling of well, now what?

We're pretty spoiled now and it no longer impresses me. It's become an expectation and the work that developers & artists put into these games to look indistinguishable from reality seems like such a waste of resources, they even hire real models and actors and just scan them in now. Where will be in 10 more years, not being able to tell the difference between the real thing and video game art?

I'm not saying it's a bad thing but the novelty of hyper realism has worn off for me this gen. It irks me when people complain that PES 19 looks the same as 18 and i think, ffs well of course it does, first of all it's madness to imagine a dev studio would release a game annually on a brand new graphics engine every year for the sake if it and secondly, PES has always nailed the realistic aesthetic especially since moving to the fox engine. It's not gonna get much more in the flesh realistic for a few more years.

What i love about the Retro PES games is that the art style had a Japanese high quality charm. It wasn't photo realistic but it was stylized and yet was still easy to recognize who's who and what venue was what. We took it for granted back then but going back in time to play it they deserve way more credit for these games identity. I don't just go back and play them because they were great games, but because these were virtual playgrounds from my childhood.
 

Madmac79

Premiership
11 September 2006
I'd be super fine with hyper realism if graphics would be followed by gameplay. But as it is today animations, body models, lights and so on are just a sad patina for something empty that pad in hand doesn't feel like football at all.

By the way. Retro games, Pes as well as ISS (that IMHO truly had some magnificent personality in this artistic sense, maybe even more than Kcet games), had that mesh of personalized art and realism that truly nailed it and gave it all that colorful yet engaging and plausible feel.

And, of course, they played like kings.
 

miguelfcp

WYL | Porto
27 June 2009
@MafiaMurderBag: I subscribe to everything you just said, really. I do have a profound admiration for the work of these modern gaming developers, who are probably one of the last groups of hyper-talented artists roaming the Earth. Months ago I was watching a long-play on Youtube of the latest Uncharted game, which I've never played, and was completely in-awe looking at how realistic were even the tiniest of the graphical details...how talented must you be to be able to imitate reality that well? Blows my mind.

However, and you've put it perfectly, we're coming to a point where gaming merges with reality...I think that's dangerous. For our own sanity, gaming has to remain solely a distraction - albeit a passionate one - and not a replacement for reality. I'm very afraid of the effects VR gaming is going to have on gamers in the future.

You talk of the artistic look of retro-PES games, it's a great topic. I'm editing my PES6 OF and decided not to have a single player-face "patch", a face done outside the game's edit mode. Why? Well, not just because it's fun to use the ingame editor instead, but also because the faces edited there look more "PES-like". If you saw a picture of one of those, you'd know rightaway which game it was from: you'd just know it was PES. That's what retro-PES is for me: there's real-life football, and then there's PES. Both of these "worlds" are great, both are unique, both are satisfying in each one's way.

Again, as you put it, it's about having an identity. If a game copies reality entirely, then what unique identity can it have? None, it's just a copy.
 

WhoAteMeDinner

PES Puritan
28 April 2018
Had some fantastic games on WE8I yesterday. The gameplay is slightly worse than WE8LE, but still great. The hair flickering bug on pcsx2 annoys me, so i may stick with WE8I, the graphics are fantastic with juce's latest kitserver.
@fmicablues7 , me old mucker, I imagine WE 8 I or LE (PES 4 with balls and bells on :SHOCK::SHOCK::SHOCK: I guess), is a bit like PES 3 goes international, which sounds good to dinner.

:BY:
 

WhoAteMeDinner

PES Puritan
28 April 2018
So I haven't played PES 2019 here lately as I have been playing some old school PES games as well as other old school football games on the Playstation Classic. Besides the PS1 football games, I have NES, SNES, N64, PSP, and NEO Geo football games loaded up on the Playstation Classic as well. My 17 year old doesn't even want to touch it.....His first system was the PS3 so all these old system games are to old for him, LOL.

Anyone remember Konami Hyper Soccer on NES? Have it loaded up too.

Here is a pictue of my PS1 games setup. Have 95 PS1 football games loaded.


That looks like it could cause dehydration, malnutrition and agoraphobia all in one. Hell just get a big bottle to pee in.........

:TWIST::TWIST::TWIST:
 

WhoAteMeDinner

PES Puritan
28 April 2018
@miguelfcp , Miggy mate. Your PC killed your entire Master League history and gamesaves in all PES games except the PSP games ?

You can read where this is going I am sure: Playstation 2 Slimline Silver model mate......:EASY:
 

fmicablues7

Premiership
15 July 2013
Are there still any guys here playing WE9LE online ? Would be nice to play a competition between members or at least some casual friendlies. Btw, is it possible to play online with a custom option file ? For example the fantastic @Chenghis.Khan classic option file ?
 
3 November 2009
England
Liverpool FC
@Madmac79 & @miguelfcp Love both of your comments. As i was thinking more about it, i reminded myself why recently i've fallen in love with simpler and retro games...


Most of these AAA big budget games are over ambitious for their own good. For example i consider myself a lifelong and die hard fan of Final Fantasy & Metal Gear. Both their current gen iterations (FFXV & MGSV) were technological marvels and were gigantic in scale but were unfulfilling and controversially unfinished. Imagine that? 2 enormous franchises with 2 heavily produced and marketed new entries launching unfinished. Insulting and most of the blame can be placed on what we discussed above. So much resources being placed on bells and whistles and "look how ambitious this is" that they couldn't even tell comprehensive stories. They're also the victim of this standard in games now of massive terrain but with no purpose that i just get intimidated, lose interest and get bored. Huge open worlds for the sake of.

We laugh at some of those fans who want realistic blades of grass, shoelace physics and pubic hair customization in football games above a game that mechanically plays how it's supposed to and a ultimately polished product but unfortunately, it's becoming a reality. Dev's are focusing more on assets rather than function.

I was also thinking about some of the games i finished this week for the first time. Streets of Rage & Resident Evil 4. Yeah they're dated by today's standards but were ahead of their time and even innovative. I realized the reason being is back then, developers built a game and it's mechanics around it's limitations, nowadays the hardware restrictions are lifted and games are huge in scope the actual game play complimenting it just becomes an after thought.
 

miguelfcp

WYL | Porto
27 June 2009
@WhoAteMeDinner: It's a fine piece of machinery my mate. It has survived many rocky trips, many falls to the floor, and is still going strong, looking sexy and playing great. Plus, though playing retro-PES on the PC has many advantages, nothing beats that feeling of sitting in front of the tele for a match (or many).

@Madmac79: I'm sad that Gutierrez is on his way out of your PES11 ML team, he quickly became one of my favourite defaults ever - and on my 08 PS2 ML he turned into a heck of a player, by far the best default I've ever seen. But given you already have that beast of a player that is Schwarz, and Shimizu, the japanese Messi, it's understandable that Gutierrez can't find his space on the roster.
Still, it's great that you're keeping Fouque. These players are not just characters on a videogame, they grow on us really.

@MafiaMurderBag: And then, that emphasis on realism is often used as makeup for how unfulfilling the game actually is. I remember everyone going berserk over some pictures of a PES19 stadium, how absolutely life-like it looked (and it did, was one hell of a graphic work)...but as you "jump on the pitch" to actually...play the game, it lets you down.
What this does on long-term is it educates gamers that all it matters is the appearance, not the content. Hence the public outrages over players' hairdos which are not up-to-date, correct boots, and all that jazz. Nevermind BaL hasn't been updated in like 10 years or the ML is in shambles...nevermind the evil business practices of the producers of Sports Game Y, because what's important is that Player X grew a beard since last month and he's only got stubble on the game.
Then, naturally, you try to convince these people to play a 15-year-old game and they reject it, because "new" and "shiny" (looking good) is for them a better choice. This is the Tinder-hookup mentality applied to gaming, whereas I prefer to treat my games as friends - can't care about how old they are, whether they are physically attractive or not, as long as there's something positive to get out of that relationship.

Also, there's just not any incentive for developers to release a good all-around product anymore. They can make more money by releasing a purposefully bugged/unfinished (...or both...) game, then patch it many times over the year. In the end, you get a feeling that the problems were addressed and devs were actually busy, just by reading the changelogs of each patch; when in fact if you look at the bigger picture, all that could've and should've been addressed BEFORE release-day of the game in the first place.
The thing is, people eat this up so it's proven to be a viable business practice, even if ugly. They've signed up to become beta-testers for the gaming developers, but instead of actually being paid/offered something of value in return, it's THEY who pay for that "privilege"...

...and I'm the crazy one for playing my PS2-era games...

Games like FIFA or PES or NBA2K are not exactly "games" anymore...they're services; you're not a gamer anymore, you're a customer. The service is designed to fail, because if it keeps on failing, it keeps you hooked, wanting a fix. There's more money to be made by providing a shitty service than a perfect one, as long as people - the customers - keep eating it up, pumping fuel into this machine.
 

xicpanad

Premiership
27 March 2009
From my experience, the more the graphics get realism, the less I love the game. And we can´t confuse realism with beauty. Rockstar games are not hyperrealistic, but are damn beautifull. Maybe an exception here. Most other games lost their way as soon as they started to go "visual".
 

mattmid

Champions League
15 December 2011
@MafiaMurderBag That seems to be the thing now doesn't it, eye candy over gameplay. Wow it looks amazing, yeah it does but I've finished it in two days.


CD Projekt Red are a noticeable exception to that who achieved beauty and substance in equal measures. I spent months on the Witcher series, the third of which is still to my mind the greatest game ever made to date.

Agree with the football, ah yes look Messi's tattoo's are exactly like the real one's, his eyebrows are even the same length. Yeah mate but he doesn't skate across the pitch without moving his legs in real life does he?
 

WhoAteMeDinner

PES Puritan
28 April 2018
@WhoAteMeDinner: I raise you...Ribery PES5(?)
I dunno what PES 5 game save that image is from but compared to the real and unpolished Franck, that dude looks handsome.:SHOCK::SHOCK::SHOCK:

Thing about Ribery and Robben at Bayern Munich though is they are all about the football on the pitch and none of the bollox off it.

Becks, CR7 and Pogba, you could learn something. :R1:R1:R1
 

Madmac79

Premiership
11 September 2006
@MafiaMurderBag don't talk me about MGS! I have an almost morbous love for the franchise, as I maybe wrote time ago even my first gaming memories as a child are tied with it, as the absolute original game on Nes, Metal Gear, was among the 2-3 first titles I've ever played on a console. It's probably the saga that gave me the greatest storyline driven emotions I've ever experienced in a game.

For how incomplete, controversial and rushed it was, I managed to enjoy and find some peace even in MGSV.. to me the true blasphemy was that joke of a survival game they slapped the Metal Gear name on. I guess Konami is above redemption at this point :(, as not even something that was so infused with narrative, peculiarity and depth is safe from being turned into a bland money grabber of the worst kind.

@miguelfcp Unfortunately Gutierrez (which I normally like in other chapters) doesn't grow that much on pc Pes 2011, I bought Jones and I'm about to take regen Luis Fabiano for the summer, he would never play between them and Schwarzy. Plus the fact he doesn't have the stats to do the normal dribbling is a too big of an handicap.. as you probably remember, in 2011 players who have low stats in dribbling and technique do an atrocious slow movement with the ball in the feet instead of the normal turn of direction, and that's among the reasons why I'm keeping Hamsun who does have a good enough dribbling to do it, and not him.

You are certainly right that part of the fascination in a proper ML is to grow fond of certain players regardless of their ability- and for me it's the case with Fouque, for example.. and even Oscar, that while isn't as good as Shimizu and Schwarz, still remains the same one of the players I use with much success in this 2011..

p.s. sorry for the delayed answer, but I was without internet for some days, and I hate to write long things from my cellphone!
 
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miguelfcp

WYL | Porto
27 June 2009
@WhoAteMeDinner: I have no idea who that Miguel is :D

@Madmac79: I really have to play PES11 again, I don't remember that issue with the turning of the players. I lost the PS3 PES11 disk I had, alongside with PES12, the only two PS3-era PES I haven't revisited recently. I must have the PC version around here somewhere, if I do find it I'll install and play. I do remember that it was one of the PES I enjoyed the most back then, and you writing about it makes me even more curious to try it out again.
 

Madmac79

Premiership
11 September 2006
@miguelfcp in my opinion, even if it wasn't perfect due to many reasons, the way they approached dribbling in this chapter gives some kind of great depth to the game. If you start a ML with the defaults, for example, you just have like 3 players, if I remember correctly, that can turn and dribble properly.. with the rest of them you REALLY need to pay attention at what you do with the ball in the feet, since it can be super easily lost. The same can be said for most of the other defenders and generally low technical stats players in the game.. at the opposite, guys who have great dribbling and ball control do stand out a lot, despite the famous catch up bug.

Speaking of which, I wish they adopted some other method rather than this catch up bug.. on one side it makes almost impossible to just run all the field with a player, and for that I will never completely hate it.. on the other, it still is a cheap cop out to a problem that should be sorted with a better AI, and it waters down some sides of what would have maybe been, at least imho, the most stats-driven Pes ever.
 

Chuny

GFX MOD
Staff
11 December 2007
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Yup! I've had a few goes in between older games. I wanna get stuck into a La Liga at some point & take advantage of the fully licesensed Spanish league, Stadia et al.
What Patch are you using?
Do you have Jenkey's Gameplay tool?
I can't seem to be able to run it on Windows 10! It's driving me nuts! I want to change some gameplay stuff and cameras!
 

fmicablues7

Premiership
15 July 2013
What Patch are you using?
Do you have Jenkey's Gameplay tool?
I can't seem to be able to run it on Windows 10! It's driving me nuts! I want to change some gameplay stuff and cameras!
Are you sure this is related to Windows 10 ? Remember, 1.04 (final official patch for pes2013), is not compatible with jenkey's tool.
 

Chuny

GFX MOD
Staff
11 December 2007
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Are you sure this is related to Windows 10 ? Remember, 1.04 (final official patch for pes2013), is not compatible with jenkey's tool.
The problem I have is the tool won't open.
As soon as I run it, I can see the process starts (using Task Manager) but it quickly shuts down. The tool never gets to really open up and run. Tried compatibility mode with Windows XP / 7 and no luck.


Gameplay Tool 3.21 actually runs, but it can only attach to PES 2013 1.03, so it doesn't work with the patch (PES EDIT 13) because it uses a different DLC version.
 
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