The Retro-PES Corner

breezy said:
I'm on a 98 World Cup kick (oh hell, when am I not), can you share this ROM?
Click to expand...
I've looked up most of my favorite places to find ROMs, but this one is legit hard to find, so i've tried remembering from which site mine came from, and it was probably emuparadise.me, that could be a problem since this site got hit pretty bad when Nintendo started going after those websites a couple of years back, however if i'm remembering it right there was a way to still get stuff from there, you have to download a Workaround Script, i'm not a huge computer guy so i'm not very qualified to explain how that works, back then my approach was look up some tutorials on reddit.com and it worked, don't know if it still works tho.

I did some more digging, found a dump of japanese ROMs on the Internet Archive, this one thankfully seems to have Winning Eleven 3 Final Ver. however this isn't where my ROM originally came from, so i'm not sure if it'll work, hope it does tho: https://archive.org/download/Sony-Playstation-JP-ASIA-Part-2

On a site note, it's annoying how much harder it is to find these files nowadays compared to a few years back, like, i'm not trying to argue that the companies don't have a valid concern for piracy and stuff, but in the case of a game like this it's literally the only way we can play it, besides ordering a used copy all the way from Japan, and it's not like Konami is still selling the game out there, not even digitally, they're not making any money from it anymore and are giving us no official ways to get it today, so in this case there's no problem in my eyes.
 
I’m not sure if these games are retro enough, but I've been playing PES 2018 and PES 2019 because my latop can't handle PES2021.

I remember PES 2018 fondly as being the first PES game in ages that gave me back the fun I had back in the old PS2 era. The first few games I played were pretty fun too I have to admit. But in one of my first matches I did see something strange: a defender made a strange lurge out of the defense giving the opposing team room to dribble. In later matches I started to see this more and more, defenders doing their own thing... even super cancel couldn't help stop defenders doing strange things like jogging back instead of running. It really started to kill the enjoyment the game had. Not much point in playing if I didn't have the full control of my players, it was certainly not the PES2018 I remember being fond of. Konami seems to have left it in a pretty broken state.
So I moved on to PES 2019.
I started an old ML up and luckily for me gone were the problems of the previous version, I had full control of my players again. But again something popped up that started to frustrate me. Time and again I kept getting scored against (on superstar) right after I scored my first goal. Almost every match I played the AI made an unstoppable series of moves that would lead to them equalising. It didn’t matter what team I was playing against, I could have been dominating the game or having a struggle.. they would almost always score... So yeah, both games started out playing well but quickly showed me that they were left in a broken state.
I might fire up 2020 if my laptop allows me to and see how that compares, but from what I've heard it was also left in a bad state.
 
MKC said:
You know, i've been thinking about the state of football gaming lately, so i've decided to play some older games recently, a couple of 8bit ones, some 16bit ones... Eventually the PS1 Winning Eleven games were next on my list.

Just got done playing some Winning Eleven 3 Final Ver. after not touching it for a few months, it's just as perfect as it's always been. The first thing that strikes me is the OST in the menus, it's so iconic and feels epic, which is appropriate, since this is a World Cup game, you don't get a much more epic event that this one, it's the most important thing in the sport by far. Then there's the fact that this specific game legit had the licenses right, it's a genuine World Cup game by Konami, the kits are all accurate, which is wonderful since the 1998 World Cup kits were phenomenal, and the player names are right, it's so nice hearing the iconic Jon Kabira say the names of the legends that played in this tournament. The improvements that this version did to the standard Winning Eleven 3 are also what makes it the definitive PS1 footy game to me, most specifically the camera angles, they have a much better field of view, my favorite is the TV camera, i love these lower and more straight cameras, which is why i like the Pitch Side one the most in modern PES, tho they need to have a good visibility, and this one does, can't get enough of it.

However, while all of the things i've mentioned earlier definitely do help make this game an absolute masterpiece, the gameplay is what truly defines it's place in the franchise's history. It's just perfect, it's the gameplay that defined PES for the longest time, that made it the definitive football series over all of it's competitors for the longest time, easy to learn, hard to master, basic fundamentals, but filled with nuance, stats that are clearly visible (Ronaldo's pace is simply phenomenal here, just like it was in real life at that very tournament), basic settings whose adjustments make a huge difference, and most important of all, a perfect mix of arcade and simulation.

That last part is what really got me thinking, cuz you see, in the last few years i've considered myself more of a simulation fan, which seems to be the standard in this forum, however when playing some older games, starting with the 8bit and 16bit ones, it struck me how much joy they were giving me, even tho they were very arcade, and this made me realise that my problem with modern football games isn't that they're too arcade, it's something else.

So this made me do some soul searching, as to why these older games were so much more fun to me than the modern ones, it couldn't be because they are more realistic, because overall they're not (Although in a few aspects they kind of were, which is legit pretty funny), and it finally clicked.

I'm not sure how many here are familiar with racing games, personally i'm not a fanatic or anything like that, but i've always loved Gran Turismo, a game that called itself "The Real Driving Simulator", and it always seemed fair to me, however it surprised me to see that among racing game enthusiasts this was not a real simulation, because it lacked a ton of stuff that is important to real life racing, they generally divide games in Arcade, Sim, and SimCade, the latter is something i've never heard of in any other community, however to me it's legit an important concept when discussing games.

There has never been a single football game in history which aimed at being a true simulation, for that they'd have to make 90 minutes the standard time for a match, they'd have to make the pace exactly the same as a real life match, and the market for that is just too small, so all of the PES and FIFA games we've played have all been SimCades from the start, most football games have actually, afterall, they have to fit all of the action in around 10 minutes instead of 90.

Now, here's where i'm getting at: A SimCade is always gonna feature a mix of Simulation elements and Arcade elements, therefore what makes a football game good isn't how realistic or arcade it is, a good football game is the one that makes the best choice of elements from each side, in a way that in the final product every factor chosen works in harmony with one another, cohesion is the name of the game here. Another important aspect of this cohesion argument i'm trying to make is that the game needs to have clear rules on how it works, and it needs to follow those rules, this was much easier to achieve in the past when games were more simple, and that aspect naturally makes them have an edge over their modern iterations, however just because technology has advanced it doesn't mean EA and Konami can't pull it off, but for some reason they just seem to refuse.

All of the things i've listed earlier in this post are what makes the classic PES games so dear to most people, at least in my eyes, for the PS1 and PS2 titles, you'll see arcade fans loving them, and sim fans loving them, in a game like Winning Eleven 3 Final Ver. if the game isn't arcade enough for you, all you have to do is increase the speed, while if it's not sim enough for you, decreasing the speed does more than enough, because the core and fundamentals of the game are so polished and cohesive, you don't need to adjust anything drastically to see a real effect and enjoy it more, while nowadays you need to adjust a billion sliders just to make things servicable, since the fundamentals are so broken.

The problem with modern footy games, with EA and Konami, is that the choices they make when deciding if an aspect of the game needs to be more arcade or sim are just wrong and don't work in harmony with one another, so what you get is a game that always feels off no matter what your taste is, instead of being easy to learn and hard to master, they're hard to learn, especially to people who aren't very into football games, but easy to master, afterall, all you have to do is learn this year's new exploit and take advantage of it, it's what the pro players do, and more power to them, their objective is winning, and this is how you win now.

I'm just rambling at this point tbh, maybe this sounds pretty whiny overall, but these are just some things that have been going through my head after playing some legit fantastic retro games and getting so much more satisfaction out of them than the modern ones, as good as those can be in many aspects.

P.S. Winning Eleven 3 Final Ver. might be the best football game ever made, at least to me, so there goes my recommendation to everyone reading it, give this beauty a shot if you haven't already, it's worth it.
Click to expand...

Preach! Winning Eleven 3 is also my favorite game ever.
 
Fenomeno9 said:
Thank you a lot, that is looking very useful as I am putting together squads of 16-20 players for each team of 90 91 1st division season, I don't know much about English football of that era so this kind of information helps me a lot so I learn the key players, typical starting line ups etc.
Click to expand...
https://www.enfa.co.uk/
That site has every player used for every season since the Football League began. For names it's perfect, but you have to pay to see more details.
 
MKC said:
You know, i've been thinking about the state of football gaming lately, so i've decided to play some older games recently, a couple of 8bit ones, some 16bit ones... Eventually the PS1 Winning Eleven games were next on my list.

Just got done playing some Winning Eleven 3 Final Ver. after not touching it for a few months, it's just as perfect as it's always been. The first thing that strikes me is the OST in the menus, it's so iconic and feels epic, which is appropriate, since this is a World Cup game, you don't get a much more epic event that this one, it's the most important thing in the sport by far. Then there's the fact that this specific game legit had the licenses right, it's a genuine World Cup game by Konami, the kits are all accurate, which is wonderful since the 1998 World Cup kits were phenomenal, and the player names are right, it's so nice hearing the iconic Jon Kabira say the names of the legends that played in this tournament. The improvements that this version did to the standard Winning Eleven 3 are also what makes it the definitive PS1 footy game to me, most specifically the camera angles, they have a much better field of view, my favorite is the TV camera, i love these lower and more straight cameras, which is why i like the Pitch Side one the most in modern PES, tho they need to have a good visibility, and this one does, can't get enough of it.

However, while all of the things i've mentioned earlier definitely do help make this game an absolute masterpiece, the gameplay is what truly defines it's place in the franchise's history. It's just perfect, it's the gameplay that defined PES for the longest time, that made it the definitive football series over all of it's competitors for the longest time, easy to learn, hard to master, basic fundamentals, but filled with nuance, stats that are clearly visible (Ronaldo's pace is simply phenomenal here, just like it was in real life at that very tournament), basic settings whose adjustments make a huge difference, and most important of all, a perfect mix of arcade and simulation.

That last part is what really got me thinking, cuz you see, in the last few years i've considered myself more of a simulation fan, which seems to be the standard in this forum, however when playing some older games, starting with the 8bit and 16bit ones, it struck me how much joy they were giving me, even tho they were very arcade, and this made me realise that my problem with modern football games isn't that they're too arcade, it's something else.

So this made me do some soul searching, as to why these older games were so much more fun to me than the modern ones, it couldn't be because they are more realistic, because overall they're not (Although in a few aspects they kind of were, which is legit pretty funny), and it finally clicked.

I'm not sure how many here are familiar with racing games, personally i'm not a fanatic or anything like that, but i've always loved Gran Turismo, a game that called itself "The Real Driving Simulator", and it always seemed fair to me, however it surprised me to see that among racing game enthusiasts this was not a real simulation, because it lacked a ton of stuff that is important to real life racing, they generally divide games in Arcade, Sim, and SimCade, the latter is something i've never heard of in any other community, however to me it's legit an important concept when discussing games.

There has never been a single football game in history which aimed at being a true simulation, for that they'd have to make 90 minutes the standard time for a match, they'd have to make the pace exactly the same as a real life match, and the market for that is just too small, so all of the PES and FIFA games we've played have all been SimCades from the start, most football games have actually, afterall, they have to fit all of the action in around 10 minutes instead of 90.

Now, here's where i'm getting at: A SimCade is always gonna feature a mix of Simulation elements and Arcade elements, therefore what makes a football game good isn't how realistic or arcade it is, a good football game is the one that makes the best choice of elements from each side, in a way that in the final product every factor chosen works in harmony with one another, cohesion is the name of the game here. Another important aspect of this cohesion argument i'm trying to make is that the game needs to have clear rules on how it works, and it needs to follow those rules, this was much easier to achieve in the past when games were more simple, and that aspect naturally makes them have an edge over their modern iterations, however just because technology has advanced it doesn't mean EA and Konami can't pull it off, but for some reason they just seem to refuse.

All of the things i've listed earlier in this post are what makes the classic PES games so dear to most people, at least in my eyes, for the PS1 and PS2 titles, you'll see arcade fans loving them, and sim fans loving them, in a game like Winning Eleven 3 Final Ver. if the game isn't arcade enough for you, all you have to do is increase the speed, while if it's not sim enough for you, decreasing the speed does more than enough, because the core and fundamentals of the game are so polished and cohesive, you don't need to adjust anything drastically to see a real effect and enjoy it more, while nowadays you need to adjust a billion sliders just to make things servicable, since the fundamentals are so broken.

The problem with modern footy games, with EA and Konami, is that the choices they make when deciding if an aspect of the game needs to be more arcade or sim are just wrong and don't work in harmony with one another, so what you get is a game that always feels off no matter what your taste is, instead of being easy to learn and hard to master, they're hard to learn, especially to people who aren't very into football games, but easy to master, afterall, all you have to do is learn this year's new exploit and take advantage of it, it's what the pro players do, and more power to them, their objective is winning, and this is how you win now.

I'm just rambling at this point tbh, maybe this sounds pretty whiny overall, but these are just some things that have been going through my head after playing some legit fantastic retro games and getting so much more satisfaction out of them than the modern ones, as good as those can be in many aspects.

P.S. Winning Eleven 3 Final Ver. might be the best football game ever made, at least to me, so there goes my recommendation to everyone reading it, give this beauty a shot if you haven't already, it's worth it.
Click to expand...
Where I'm from some people are still playing WE3FV, there were even online tournaments for it just a few months ago
 
du0 said:
Where I'm from some people are still playing WE3FV, there were even online tournaments for it just a few months ago
Click to expand...
So this is the equivalent of ISS Pro 98 (KCET)? It shares a lot details in the menus/presentation with ISS KCEO series, basically the smiley faces for form.

I watched some online toyrneys on Youtube, did not know you can play online through PSX emulator!!! Crazy staff!!!!:WORSHIP:
 
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slamsoze said:
So this is the equivalent of ISS Pro 98 (KCET)? It shares a lot details in the menus/presentation with ISS KCEO series, basically the smiley faces for form.

I watched some online toyrneys on Youtube, did not know you can play online through PSX emulator!!! Crazy staff!!!!:WORSHIP:
Click to expand...
Yes, WE3FV = ISS Pro 98 + some updates I think

Some online tourney final last year here
 
ISS Pro 98 with refined dribbling and shooting. One-twos are more fluid too. There are in-match replays for the first time and everything looks less saturated. It's still streamed regularly on Facebook! Great game.

-----



Back for what could be the final season! A few VAR-worthy incidents here... All views, comments 'n' shit welcome.
 
du0 said:
Yes, WE3FV = ISS Pro 98 + some updates I think

Some online tourney final last year here
Click to expand...
Yeah, there is another channel winningelevengaming something on youtube, having tones of that bronze age PES games (ISS pro, WE3, WE2002) ,cups, online tournaments, etc. To be honest i have never played anything before ISS pro evo 2 on PSX, cause i was a Nintendo fanboy back then!! :P I had only all the KCEO ISS series, SNES and N64.
 
MKC said:
You know, i've been thinking about the state of football gaming lately, so i've decided to play some older games recently, a couple of 8bit ones, some 16bit ones... Eventually the PS1 Winning Eleven games were next on my list.

Just got done playing some Winning Eleven 3 Final Ver. after not touching it for a few months, it's just as perfect as it's always been. The first thing that strikes me is the OST in the menus, it's so iconic and feels epic, which is appropriate, since this is a World Cup game, you don't get a much more epic event that this one, it's the most important thing in the sport by far. Then there's the fact that this specific game legit had the licenses right, it's a genuine World Cup game by Konami, the kits are all accurate, which is wonderful since the 1998 World Cup kits were phenomenal, and the player names are right, it's so nice hearing the iconic Jon Kabira say the names of the legends that played in this tournament. The improvements that this version did to the standard Winning Eleven 3 are also what makes it the definitive PS1 footy game to me, most specifically the camera angles, they have a much better field of view, my favorite is the TV camera, i love these lower and more straight cameras, which is why i like the Pitch Side one the most in modern PES, tho they need to have a good visibility, and this one does, can't get enough of it.

However, while all of the things i've mentioned earlier definitely do help make this game an absolute masterpiece, the gameplay is what truly defines it's place in the franchise's history. It's just perfect, it's the gameplay that defined PES for the longest time, that made it the definitive football series over all of it's competitors for the longest time, easy to learn, hard to master, basic fundamentals, but filled with nuance, stats that are clearly visible (Ronaldo's pace is simply phenomenal here, just like it was in real life at that very tournament), basic settings whose adjustments make a huge difference, and most important of all, a perfect mix of arcade and simulation.

That last part is what really got me thinking, cuz you see, in the last few years i've considered myself more of a simulation fan, which seems to be the standard in this forum, however when playing some older games, starting with the 8bit and 16bit ones, it struck me how much joy they were giving me, even tho they were very arcade, and this made me realise that my problem with modern football games isn't that they're too arcade, it's something else.

So this made me do some soul searching, as to why these older games were so much more fun to me than the modern ones, it couldn't be because they are more realistic, because overall they're not (Although in a few aspects they kind of were, which is legit pretty funny), and it finally clicked.

I'm not sure how many here are familiar with racing games, personally i'm not a fanatic or anything like that, but i've always loved Gran Turismo, a game that called itself "The Real Driving Simulator", and it always seemed fair to me, however it surprised me to see that among racing game enthusiasts this was not a real simulation, because it lacked a ton of stuff that is important to real life racing, they generally divide games in Arcade, Sim, and SimCade, the latter is something i've never heard of in any other community, however to me it's legit an important concept when discussing games.

There has never been a single football game in history which aimed at being a true simulation, for that they'd have to make 90 minutes the standard time for a match, they'd have to make the pace exactly the same as a real life match, and the market for that is just too small, so all of the PES and FIFA games we've played have all been SimCades from the start, most football games have actually, afterall, they have to fit all of the action in around 10 minutes instead of 90.

Now, here's where i'm getting at: A SimCade is always gonna feature a mix of Simulation elements and Arcade elements, therefore what makes a football game good isn't how realistic or arcade it is, a good football game is the one that makes the best choice of elements from each side, in a way that in the final product every factor chosen works in harmony with one another, cohesion is the name of the game here. Another important aspect of this cohesion argument i'm trying to make is that the game needs to have clear rules on how it works, and it needs to follow those rules, this was much easier to achieve in the past when games were more simple, and that aspect naturally makes them have an edge over their modern iterations, however just because technology has advanced it doesn't mean EA and Konami can't pull it off, but for some reason they just seem to refuse.

All of the things i've listed earlier in this post are what makes the classic PES games so dear to most people, at least in my eyes, for the PS1 and PS2 titles, you'll see arcade fans loving them, and sim fans loving them, in a game like Winning Eleven 3 Final Ver. if the game isn't arcade enough for you, all you have to do is increase the speed, while if it's not sim enough for you, decreasing the speed does more than enough, because the core and fundamentals of the game are so polished and cohesive, you don't need to adjust anything drastically to see a real effect and enjoy it more, while nowadays you need to adjust a billion sliders just to make things servicable, since the fundamentals are so broken.

The problem with modern footy games, with EA and Konami, is that the choices they make when deciding if an aspect of the game needs to be more arcade or sim are just wrong and don't work in harmony with one another, so what you get is a game that always feels off no matter what your taste is, instead of being easy to learn and hard to master, they're hard to learn, especially to people who aren't very into football games, but easy to master, afterall, all you have to do is learn this year's new exploit and take advantage of it, it's what the pro players do, and more power to them, their objective is winning, and this is how you win now.

I'm just rambling at this point tbh, maybe this sounds pretty whiny overall, but these are just some things that have been going through my head after playing some legit fantastic retro games and getting so much more satisfaction out of them than the modern ones, as good as those can be in many aspects.

P.S. Winning Eleven 3 Final Ver. might be the best football game ever made, at least to me, so there goes my recommendation to everyone reading it, give this beauty a shot if you haven't already, it's worth it.
Click to expand...
Excellent post. I mean first of all (And there will be a theme here) The music in these older games are a character in of themselves. The music like most video game soundtracks back then were all original and created in house with Konami's own musicians, It's what keeps the game feeling like a game and it's what makes each menu trigger a different emotion and sense of occasion. Nowadays they just pay a fortune for whatever radio friendly music is trending at the time and call it a day and in some ways it's even more repetitive than the vocal-less BGM music we had before.

On to your next point regarding what made them more enjoyable and you're right, There was always a careful balance between simulation and arcade and Konami's games had nuanced this. Too realistic and it becomes Read Dead Redemption 2 football and it just bores and pisses off the casual player by being to cumbersome, tedious and unresponsive, Too arcady and it doesn't resemble the subject matter in anyway.

As you say, A good game no matter the genre needs to establish very simple cognitive rules and a structure and the player comes to understand and respect this - This way there's little conflict or confusion with the result. The player understands there are rewards and consequences to their actions. This was more effective back in our day because the technology was simpler and hence it required clever compromises artistically and practically.

Now we have the technology for complex animations, ball physics and footplanting, Sometimes our players resemble androids trying to work out mathematical equations on the field and it causes embarrassing or even down frustrating situations or moments were the game it's controls simply betray you.

This is why games like Fortnite work so well and why it's far more popular than PUBG - When you sacrifice pure realism over responsiveness and simple controls and animation, You get a result where you can't expect too much complexity for complexities sake from animation time and physic calculation. It gives the player more agency over their skill and decision making and not feeling anxious about input delay from the game or clunky weapon switching etc.
 
Fenomeno9 said:
Thank you a lot, that is looking very useful as I am putting together squads of 16-20 players for each team of 90 91 1st division season, I don't know much about English football of that era so this kind of information helps me a lot so I learn the key players, typical starting line ups etc.
Click to expand...
I realize your question's already been answered, but I usually use https://www.playmakerstats.com/
It's pretty comprehensive too, and not just for England if you want.
You'll need an account to see match data, though (to get an idea of the starting eleven and such) - but that's free.
 
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I had to play some WE3FV last night after all the chat. What a glorious game. I'm guilty of not playing it enough as it hasn't had the same nostalgic draw as the later games. I - like @slamsoze - was a Nintendo fanboy until ISS PE stole my heart. The dribbling is especially noticeable. It's almost totally unique to that one game, weighty yet responsive.

More generally, as far as the older games go, time has been liberating. I'm certainly accepting of their flaws and limitations and can just accept them for what they are. I complained about them at the time, of course. But in hindsight, playing their competitors of the time and knowing what's happened since, I can more than let my arguments go.
 
Flipper the Priest said:
I had to play some WE3FV last night after all the chat. What a glorious game. I'm guilty of not playing it enough as it hasn't had the same nostalgic draw as the later games. I - like @slamsoze - was a Nintendo fanboy until ISS PE stole my heart. The dribbling is especially noticeable. It's almost totally unique to that one game, weighty yet responsive.

More generally, as far as the older games go, time has been liberating. I'm certainly accepting of their flaws and limitations and can just accept them for what they are. I complained about them at the time, of course. But in hindsight, playing their competitors of the time and knowing what's happened since, I can more than let my arguments go.
Click to expand...
You're right about the weighty dribbling. One other thing I particularly noticed was that my defenders were responsive under my control, so you could jump passing lanes and intercept more effectively.

Does anyone have any advice on how to make games run smoother on ePSXe (or a different emulator)? It ran great in the menu, but the game itself was choppy and not very playable for me.
 
breezy said:
You're right about the weighty dribbling. One other thing I particularly noticed was that my defenders were responsive under my control, so you could jump passing lanes and intercept more effectively.

Does anyone have any advice on how to make games run smoother on ePSXe (or a different emulator)? It ran great in the menu, but the game itself was choppy and not very playable for me.
Click to expand...

Another wee blast of it tonight:


@Meazza84 might be able to help with ePSXe?
 
I'm editing my WE7i option file and I notice there are a lot of duplicates (J.S. Park and J. S. Park, YP Lee and just Lee from PSV/Korea). WeOptEditor doesn't have an option to delete a player, what can I do to remove duplicates from ML?
 
du0 said:
I'm editing my WE7i option file and I notice there are a lot of duplicates (J.S. Park and J. S. Park, YP Lee and just Lee from PSV/Korea). WeOptEditor doesn't have an option to delete a player, what can I do to remove duplicates from ML?
Click to expand...

As far as I know, nothing. I've just overwritten them. Think there are about 10 in total, split between Holland and South Korea?

I've got an OF with all the names in English if that's any use? Assuming you're talking about the Japanese version that is! Or have I shared it already? Can't remember as I've had a few convos with people about so many different things! 😄
 
Flipper the Priest said:
As far as I know, nothing. I've just overwritten them. Think there are about 10 in total, split between Holland and South Korea?

I've got an OF with all the names in English if that's any use? Assuming you're talking about the Japanese version that is! Or have I shared it already? Can't remember as I've had a few convos with people about so many different things! 😄
Click to expand...
Pretty sure I haven't since I never asked for any WE7I JP OF, could you share?. I'm playing the Redux 3.0 patch, now that's some peak PS2 editing
 
breezy said:
You're right about the weighty dribbling. One other thing I particularly noticed was that my defenders were responsive under my control, so you could jump passing lanes and intercept more effectively.

Does anyone have any advice on how to make games run smoother on ePSXe (or a different emulator)? It ran great in the menu, but the game itself was choppy and not very playable for me.
Click to expand...
I'll take a look at my config and share it when I'm home from work. I can play it just fine on my PC.

EDIT: Here's what I use:
Plugin: Pete's OpenGL2 Driver 2.10
Author: Pete Bernert
Card vendor: Intel
GFX card: Intel(R) HD Graphics 4400

Resolution/Color:
- 640x480 Window mode (you can toggle fullscreen if you want; I personally prefer to play windowed because if I have a crash I can be sure it's not the computer's fault)
- Internal X resolution: 1 (High)
- Internal Y resolution: 1 (High)
- Keep psx aspect ratio: off
- No render-to-texture: on

- Filtering: 0
- Hi-Res textures: 0
- TexWin pixel shader: on
- VRam size: 0 MBytes

Framerate:
- FPS limitation: on
- Frame skipping: off
- FPS limit: Auto

Compatibility:
- Offscreen drawing: 2 (Extended)
- Framebuffer effects: 3 (Full)
- Framebuffer uploads: 1 (Standard)

Misc:
- Scanlines: off
- Mdec filter: on
- Screen filtering: on
- Shader effects: 0/1 (i.e. i leave this unchecked)
- Flicker-fix border size: 0
- GF4/XP crash fix: on
- Game fixes: off [00000000]
 
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Are there explanations on the condition arrows of WE7/PES3? I found the PESFan guide but there's nothing in it about condition arrows
 
du0 said:
Pretty sure I haven't since I never asked for any WE7I JP OF, could you share?. I'm playing the Redux 3.0 patch, now that's some peak PS2 editing
Click to expand...

I'll share. Tonight probably. Word of warning is that a very small number of faces might be off. Because faces (and maybe other things) were added for WE7I, some of them sit outside the ranges in the EditPES3OptionFile editor, which was designed for PES3. Mainly affects faces for skin colour 3. First noticed it when Nuno Gomes was strutting around looking like Michael Reiziger!

That is a good-looking patch from what I've seen, and I'm very fussy with patches!

du0 said:
Are there explanations on the condition arrows of WE7/PES3? I found the PESFan guide but there's nothing in it about condition arrows
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I've never seen a cast iron explanation. Lore is that they've always been totally random, and affect each attributes to varying degrees, between roughly +/- 15%. Over the years I've yet to see anything that challenges that.
 
du0 said:
Are there explanations on the condition arrows of WE7/PES3? I found the PESFan guide but there's nothing in it about condition arrows
Click to expand...

I don't know whether they are the same but I'd guess they are similar to the matching stats posted in the pes5 fan guide?


pes5stars.JPG
 
Been playing a lot of PES3 recently, after being convinced by this thread! Now I'm more accustomed, it's so much better than I said earlier in this thread. I think I've enjoyed the gameplay in the penalty area the most. The ball really pings around in a realistic way. You get moments of madness that seem to be less common in later PES games. I had a total fluke of a deflected shot go in against me, scored a comical own goal and also had some great Inzaghi-esque tap ins. Loved them all!

Dribbling is great in terms of difficulty. It's not like PES6 where a CB can go on a crazy solo run. I'm not a huge fan of how "floaty" everything feels though. It's like you're running on air. That's an area where my beloved PES5 just cannot be beaten.


Interesting discussions about ISS Pro/WE3. I remember playing an ISS Pro game from around that time on PS1, but it had fake player names. I think it may have been a Euro 96 themed game, as England had that classic grey away kit. Apologies, I get ridiculously mixed up with the names of the ISS/WE series, so many variations.

Anyway, I remember the dribbling in those games being such an interesting precursor to PS2 PES. It has that same great responsiveness and yet is really weighty. It's all exaggerated by that strangely loud sound effect you get when dribbling. I remember loving that game.

I was always much more into the N64 though. ISS64 was my game of choice and I poured a ridiculous amount of time into it. Interestingly it's totally different in terms of gameplay to the PS1 versions. The PS1 versions are what carried over into PES though, whilst it seems like they abandoned the style of the N64 games.

MafiaMurderBag said:
This is why games like Fortnite work so well and why it's far more popular than PUBG - When you sacrifice pure realism over responsiveness and simple controls and animation, You get a result where you can't expect too much complexity for complexities sake from animation time and physic calculation. It gives the player more agency over their skill and decision making and not feeling anxious about input delay from the game or clunky weapon switching etc.
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You just perfectly summed up why I still come back to these games time and time again. Just stumbled upon your YouTube PES videos too, gonna give them a watch. Looks really interesting.
 
Hmm... struggling to get these final games uploaded. Been a bit busy but also getting frustrated with football in general at the moment. Probably being a Spurs fan has something to do with. Never been so disconnected with the team and footy in general. :(

Here is the next Round of 16 match.

Netherlands (me) v Poland, excellent match this one.

 
ToZanarkand said:
Been playing a lot of PES3 recently, after being convinced by this thread! Now I'm more accustomed, it's so much better than I said earlier in this thread. I think I've enjoyed the gameplay in the penalty area the most. The ball really pings around in a realistic way. You get moments of madness that seem to be less common in later PES games. I had a total fluke of a deflected shot go in against me, scored a comical own goal and also had some great Inzaghi-esque tap ins. Loved them all!

Dribbling is great in terms of difficulty. It's not like PES6 where a CB can go on a crazy solo run. I'm not a huge fan of how "floaty" everything feels though. It's like you're running on air. That's an area where my beloved PES5 just cannot be beaten.


Interesting discussions about ISS Pro/WE3. I remember playing an ISS Pro game from around that time on PS1, but it had fake player names. I think it may have been a Euro 96 themed game, as England had that classic grey away kit. Apologies, I get ridiculously mixed up with the names of the ISS/WE series, so many variations.

Anyway, I remember the dribbling in those games being such an interesting precursor to PS2 PES. It has that same great responsiveness and yet is really weighty. It's all exaggerated by that strangely loud sound effect you get when dribbling. I remember loving that game.

I was always much more into the N64 though. ISS64 was my game of choice and I poured a ridiculous amount of time into it. Interestingly it's totally different in terms of gameplay to the PS1 versions. The PS1 versions are what carried over into PES though, whilst it seems like they abandoned the style of the N64 games.



You just perfectly summed up why I still come back to these games time and time again. Just stumbled upon your YouTube PES videos too, gonna give them a watch. Looks really interesting.
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Funny how opinions differ because floaty is the adjective I level at the games from PES4 onward as a reason why I prefer PES3! As I always think, though, there's no point arguing about it - they're all amazing and we should just enjoy them!

Because I'm a geek I can't help but explain it whenever it comes up! That game - with the grey England kit (the kits were excellent in that game) - is ISS Pro. It's effectively WE2, although it's called WE '97. You're spot on about the sound effect. It's bizarre, how it sounds as if they're running in sludge, but it does add to the weighty dribbling. And then there's the SCORCHIO commentary...

The ISS games on the N64 were developed by Konami Computer Entertainment Osaka (KCEO). They went on to do the Jikkyou World Soccer/Perfect Striker/ISS games on the PS1 and PS2, and ended with ISS3 in 2003.

Konami Computer Entertainment Tokyo (KCET) did the Winning Eleven/Pro games. That's generally the rule of thumb: is it's got one of those two phrases in its name, it's KCET and part of the PES lineage.

I was an N64 guy and played ISS64 and ISS98 all day long before jumping to PS1 with ISS Pro Evolution and not looking back! But there's plenty to like about the KCEO games, as has been discussed quite recently. KCET could've learned from the presentation, for one.

@MafiaMurderBag is taking us through the history in his own inimitable style on his YT channel. I believe the next episode is around the corner-ish? Much better viewing than those standard evolution videos you see on YT, that are basically just clips of games sewn together without any context. The history of Konami football games sure is interesting, and bloody confusing too!
 
Like buses these videos :P

The final match of the Round of 16 Euros

Italy v Finland (me)




Keeper saves were the talk of the town on this thread a while ago. Well enjoy this triple save by Finland's keeper Hradecky. There is a score spoiler in the video though ;)

 
Flipper the Priest said:
Funny how opinions differ because floaty is the adjective I level at the games from PES4 onward as a reason why I prefer PES3! As I always think, though, there's no point arguing about it - they're all amazing and we should just enjoy them!

Because I'm a geek I can't help but explain it whenever it comes up! That game - with the grey England kit (the kits were excellent in that game) - is ISS Pro. It's effectively WE2, although it's called WE '97. You're spot on about the sound effect. It's bizarre, how it sounds as if they're running in sludge, but it does add to the weighty dribbling. And then there's the SCORCHIO commentary...

The ISS games on the N64 were developed by Konami Computer Entertainment Osaka (KCEO). They went on to do the Jikkyou World Soccer/Perfect Striker/ISS games on the PS1 and PS2, and ended with ISS3 in 2003.

Konami Computer Entertainment Tokyo (KCET) did the Winning Eleven/Pro games. That's generally the rule of thumb: is it's got one of those two phrases in its name, it's KCET and part of the PES lineage.

I was an N64 guy and played ISS64 and ISS98 all day long before jumping to PS1 with ISS Pro Evolution and not looking back! But there's plenty to like about the KCEO games, as has been discussed quite recently. KCET could've learned from the presentation, for one.

@MafiaMurderBag is taking us through the history in his own inimitable style on his YT channel. I believe the next episode is around the corner-ish? Much better viewing than those standard evolution videos you see on YT, that are basically just clips of games sewn together without any context. The history of Konami football games sure is interesting, and bloody confusing too!
Click to expand...
I would definitely describe PES4 as floaty too, but for me PES5 feels so much heavier and is all the better for it. Like you say, strange how we all interpret these things differently.

It's weird but even though I've always played Konami's football games, I don't have an intricate knowledge of the history of the series. A post like yours is fascinating to me and sort of connects a few dots. I always knew there was a slight difference between the PS1 and N64 games and couldn't quite describe why that was.

A random observation I've always had about the likes of ISS64. I remember playing a football game in local arcades called "Super Sidekicks". The N64 games (whilst a lot more sophisticated) always reminded me of those arcade-era games, whilst the PS1 games were laying the foundation of what was to come in PES. The N64 games have a real charm, and yet that style of gameplay is best left in the past.
 
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