The Retro-PES Corner

[Marlon Anthony]

Hope y'all don't mind me sharing some more PES 2010 clips...

 

[geeeeee]

@geeeeee I'm going to take a look today to see if I can figure that out, I'm hoping so and then I can start a ML with your file on there. I've no idea how the saved games will work either at this stage. All I've done so far was the other night when I had 2-3 games with the default option file. It felt like the moment I was expecting after PES6 that I never got due to the PC version of 2008!

Looks like Canvey are starting to show some promise Those moments are great and are maybe part of that almost intangible thing that the retro pes's have and the new one's just don't seem to.

Did you see that incredible stat for Shane Long? His last four goals have come for four different managers

Grrr it’s like i spoke too soon...
Cardiff 1 Canvey 0
Stoke 3 Canvey 1
Southampton 3 Canvey 2

And in the Cup, Watford 3 Canvey 1 (agg 4-1)

In 6th place now. I should have checked the points before i switched off. I think there are only 5 points between Canvey and 2nd so it’s not over just yet.

I just bought a CF in Davie Selke from No Club but in real life he plays for Hertha. He scored on his debut but we still lost.

One thing that is bugging me is no matter where i put my SB’s they keep moving to the centre of defence and leaving gaps down the wings. I have tried marking, arrows, etc... i find it really frustrating at the moment because most of the time it gives the other team an opportunity to cross.

Any ideas what to do please?

@geeeeee: Yes, it's an odd feature but you can only view the rest of the D1 leagues when you yourself get promoted to the D1.

I'm a bit sad that you sold King Minanda, come on man. He's like part-time gorgeous-haired-classic-nº-10, part-time assistant manager on the pitch. The King's stats or performances don't matter; his kingdom is a gift from the gods, therefore his presence alone is a positive, irreplaceable influence on the squad.

On a more serious note, I'll always remember the case of Ordaz on my PES08 PS2 save, he was always disappointing on the first 7 seasons, Gutierrez scored much more goals and had much more influence on the pitch. Then, on the 8th season, when he was already starting his stats decline, he "decides" to become a goal scoring machine.
Also, the first newgen I bought (CB named Jackson) was supposed to be our defensive rock at age 18 - at that age he already had much better stats than Jaric, Libermann, Valeny, etc. - but shockingly, on the first 2 seasons he didn't play better than any of those players. From the 3rd season onwards, he improved his game massively and became the go-to-guy on our defense until the very end of the save.
Of course, due to the restrictions of the ML challenge I was playing I had no choice but to believe on these players, as I couldn't sell or buy any, but it showed me that regardless of stats/stats development over the years, some players will take some time to "click" and finally play at the level you expect them to.

Regarding Huylens, the guy was like 38 and still a super-sub type of player, always managed to score important goals. Can't do much else but score tap-ins, but he scores anyway.

I persevered with Minanda but he was losing the ball too many times. Remember, the ages of my defaults are different from the erm...default ages. Because i randomly changed them. So Minanda is 30, not sure of his default age. And Huylens is about 24, so he has a good future hopefully.

Does anyone know if you have to unlock Classic player and teams BEFORE you start a ML for them to show up for transfer or whether you can do it mid-ML?

I'm a few season in on PS2 PES 2008 and have just unlocked all the Classic teams and players in the PES Shop but I can't see them in my ML transfer market. I thought they were added immediately but maybe not. It's been while!

Yes i believe you have to unlock them before you start a ML.

 

[Chenghis.Khan]

One thing that is bugging me is no matter where i put my SB’s they keep moving to the centre of defence and leaving gaps down the wings. I have tried marking, arrows, etc... i find it really frustrating at the moment because most of the time it gives the other team an opportunity to cross.

Any ideas what to do please?

in pes5/we9 that happens when the CBs are placed too far apart. Place them a few clicks closer to each other and the SBs stay wide more. maybe it's similar in this game?

 

[miguelfcp]

@geeeeee: You're not using a 4-3-3 with wingers, are you? I've been foofering and faffering around in PES6 and was having trouble creating a defensive organization for 4-3-3 formations that didn't leave the wings so exposed. I ended up changing to a 4-5-1 with SMFs instead of wingers, and the teams that are using it now are much more balanced as a result - not just defensively, but overall, really.

In order to get a more realistic defensive organization, I'm testing out putting the SMF closer to the sideline than the SB of the same side. Often, when the team needs more units at the back, the LMF then tracks back and even joins the defensive line as a kind of false-SB, letting the actual sideback sit closer to the CBs. Most managers employ this strategy in real-life these days.

Spoiler: ..

For some reason I keep getting that CMF there instead of having Salvio, the RMF, closing that space - though he definitely tracks back when needed.

I tested out the opposite (placing the SB closer to the sideline than the SMF of the same wing) and I got the SMF joining the defense as a "tucked-in" SB, while the actual SB closed the space near the sideline.

This only happens in particular moments of the match, mostly when the defense needs more help to adapt to the opp.'s offense. Most of the time, the SB applies pressure down the wing anyway, partnering up with the SMF.

 

[slamsoze]

@geeeeee: You're not using a 4-3-3 with wingers, are you? I've been foofering and faffering around in PES6 managers employ this strategy in real-life these days.

Spoiler: ..

For some reason I keep getting that CMF there instead of having Salvio, the RMF, closing that space - though he definitely tracks back when neede

This only happens in particular moments of the match, mostly when the defense needs more help to adapt to the opp.'s offense. Most of the time, the SB applies pressure down the wing anyway, partnering up with the SMF.

Did you messed enough with the individual defense arrows?Maybe the CMF has a high defensive arrow

 

[miguelfcp]

@slamsoze: I believe he has a "normal" defensive arrow, just like the other CMF. Could it be that the LMF has a higher defensive stat than Salvio, the RMF? It's not much higher anyway, maybe a 5-10 point difference.

 

[slamsoze]

@slamsoze: I believe he has a "normal" defensive arrow, just like the other CMF. Could it be that the LMF has a higher defensive stat than Salvio, the RMF? It's not much higher anyway, maybe a 5-10 point difference.

To be honest never had this issue noticed.We are going deep to KONAMI top secrets that they don’t like to explain!
Does your CMF have the special ability “covering” maybe?

 

[miguelfcp]

@slamsoze: No he doesn't, and as far as I remember, both SMFs are placed equally high up on the pitch. I tried a similar formation with Porto but instead I put Brahimi (LMF) a bit farther up than the other SMF and though he still helped defending the wing a lot, at times the CMF had to close that space because he didn't "want" to track back.

The thing is, after taking that pic, Benfica got the ball back and Salvio, the RMF, started a counterattack down the right wing that led to a clear-cut-chance at goal, proving it was actually a good decision to have the CMF close the wing, freeing up the RMF of any "extreme" defensive duties and ready to join the attack.

 

[geeeeee]

in pes5/we9 that happens when the CBs are placed too far apart. Place them a few clicks closer to each other and the SBs stay wide more. maybe it's similar in this game?

@geeeeee: You're not using a 4-3-3 with wingers, are you? I've been foofering and faffering around in PES6 and was having trouble creating a defensive organization for 4-3-3 formations that didn't leave the wings so exposed. I ended up changing to a 4-5-1 with SMFs instead of wingers, and the teams that are using it now are much more balanced as a result - not just defensively, but overall, really.

In order to get a more realistic defensive organization, I'm testing out putting the SMF closer to the sideline than the SB of the same side. Often, when the team needs more units at the back, the LMF then tracks back and even joins the defensive line as a kind of false-SB, letting the actual sideback sit closer to the CBs. Most managers employ this strategy in real-life these days.

Spoiler: ..

For some reason I keep getting that CMF there instead of having Salvio, the RMF, closing that space - though he definitely tracks back when needed.

I tested out the opposite (placing the SB closer to the sideline than the SMF of the same wing) and I got the SMF joining the defense as a "tucked-in" SB, while the actual SB closed the space near the sideline.

This only happens in particular moments of the match, mostly when the defense needs more help to adapt to the opp.'s offense. Most of the time, the SB applies pressure down the wing anyway, partnering up with the SMF.

Thanks guys i will try both your suggestions and let you know.

Migs, ive been using different types of foofery and faffery formations too and it’s been the same. The thing is i didnt notice so much in the first season. Even using aggresive marking (SB’s on SMF’s) doesnt help. That used to help in newer PES by the way.

 

[geeeeee]

Just checking the Div 2 table and it’s

1. Swansea 18
2. Southampton 13
3. Stoke 12
4. Watford 11
5. Fulham 11
6. Canvey 10
7. Cardiff 10
8. West Brom 6

After 8 games, so tight for second place. We have Swansea next...

 

[miguelfcp]

@geeeeee: It's strange. I only played a 3-5-2 with wingbacks on PES08 PS2, so I got used to having the wings often exposed by teams that used either wingers or SMFs. This is a perfect excuse for me to fire up the PS2 later on and see if I get that issue...

What I'm seeing a lot on PES6 is that the defense seems to adapt to whatever the offense tries to do. So for example, when the SMFs get on a more central position, the SBs also tuck in closer to the CBs to protect that space. When they appear on wider positions, the SB typically follows him, unless the SMF is already covering up that zone. Could it be the adaptive AI of PES08 trying to figure out how to deal with the offenses on your save?

 

[geeeeee]

@miguelfcp i just changed my Defence Line and Counter Attack from A to B and it has helped a lot. Just lost against Swansea 4-2

1. Swa 21
2. Sto 15
3. Sou 14
4. Car 13
5. Ful 12
6. Wat 11
7. Can 10
8. Wes 6

We have West Brom now.

 

[geeeeee]

Sorry to say this but it’s time for a break for me now. Not sure what has happened since i was playing well and improving but i really feel as if my players stats have been nerfed some what. I have never been one to say ‘scripted this or scripted that’ but i am really feeling that my team is at such a disadvantage in the last 5 to 6 games.

I have had so many passes to players where the CPU defender just steps in front of my player, it is happening 9 times out of 10. My players are sluggish and a lot of the time taking 2 touches before passing and if passing straight away then the pass is weak and intercepted. I have had players in open space and i have had a straight forward pass but it has gone to a different player.

Another thing that I have noticed which is a bit disturbing...in my moments of madness when I have gone to hack down a player, the ref blows the whistle slightly before the foul occurs which has made me think that the CPU knows my move before the player actually performs it. Maybe that is why there is a slight delay to passes. Even when I try to slide tackle, the CPU will lose the ball and than get it back again. I don’t mind that happening but it has happened a lot in the last 5 to 6 games. It was even reminding me of Retro PES 2009 onwards which is what I hate about those games.

Ivarov also stopped catching the ball again just like he was in season one parrying the ball to the strikers a lot. One goal that West Brom scored against me just now before I turned it off. I passed the ball to Ivarov and he took two touches when I tried to pass it straight out and he miscontrolled and the West Brom striker knocked it in the goal. The striker was a fair distance away but he just sprinted and barged it in.

I know these things have always existed in retro PES but i have really noticed it a lot in this season and my joy has gone. It is as if the CPU does not want me to get promoted this season and I cannot be bothered with trying now. I am getting ratty etc... and that is not what i want to be doing. So i will have a break for a while. Maybe come back in a few weeks or something.

Heh and all of this is on Regular difficulty with my players improving in stats and everything.

A couple of days ago I posted ‘Pes is back’ but not feeling that at all now. What a difference a few days make.

 

[mattmid]

@geeeeee Are the default players still with default stats or did you randomize those a bit too? I know you've signed a couple of players but it took @miguelfcp 6 seasons I think and myself 7 to get to Div 1 using just defaults in our ML saves we posted up on here. I blew promotion on the last game or two at least 2 if not 3 times if I remember correctly and the first 2-3 seasons were very hard work to even get in the top half. So it could be just a case of that.

Also I don't know if the PSD stats are higher than the default, but if so that would make it a harder challenge for the default ML players as well.

 

[geeeeee]

@geeeeee Are the default players still with default stats or did you randomize those a bit too? I know you've signed a couple of players but it took @miguelfcp 6 seasons I think and myself 7 to get to Div 1 using just defaults in our ML saves we posted up on here. I blew promotion on the last game or two at least 2 if not 3 times if I remember correctly and the first 2-3 seasons were very hard work to even get in the top half. So it could be just a case of that.

Also I don't know if the PSD stats are higher than the default, but if so that would make it a harder challenge for the default ML players as well.

No they are the normal stats. And i’m not expecting an easy promotion. But just a fair challenge would be nice. My ‘Team Graphic’ (not sure what it is called) has improved a lot from the tiny one you begin with but it really feels like my players stats have been reduced. I was having some excellent matches that i lost and they were excellent because i didnt feel cheated but now i do feel cheated and to me it’s not what gaming is about.

The most frustrating thing is when i pass to my midfielders or strikers and they just wait for the CPU to run (from a fair distance) and get in front of them and i am completely powerless to change it. It’s killing my joy. Also the CPU players are running around like they are possesed which is one reason why i dropped right down to regular difficulty in the first place. It’s as if the CPU has 13 players on the pitch. I tackle them the ball goes to either the same player or a different one. I was going to record a bit when i tackled the player, his legs got caught but still kept the ball then i tackled him with another player and the same thing happened. He was like the terminator.

I was thinking maybe it’s my control. It could well be, because there is always a delay on the PS2 version compared to the PC version of PES. There was on PES5 not sure of 2008.

 

[mattmid]

@geeeeee That's a shame then. I've yet to try the ML, it sounds like maybe this was the start of the more obvious scripting then from what you're saying. I suppose you could play a couple of exhibition matches to see if it's the delay rather than a cheating CPU

I was playing PES earlier but I had to turn it off. Bloody Marcelo Bielsa was looking through the window watching me.

 

[miguelfcp]

Well, if you're not enjoying it @geeeeee, then it probably makes sense to take a break from the game.
I remember on my 08 save going through periods of time in which nothing seemed to work, I couldn't grab a win in any way I tried. It tested my limits, really. More than once I got so mad I replaced all the usual starting-11 players, fielded a completely new starting-11 on the following match
Also got very emotional, ML United was always topping the charts for most yellow and red cards per season; most of them were due to moments of pure rage on my behalf...

The "replace-100%-of-the-starting-11" strategy often worked, probably because I had to field in the 40-year-old Iougas, Valenys and Burchets so my levels of concentration skyrocketed, as I knew I had to give a lot more to get something out of these mediocre (BAD) talent than, say, when I used a fully-developed Gutierrez/El Moubarki/Ordaz or the quite talented newgens, and could rely on their great stats.

 

[geeeeee]

@geeeeee That's a shame then. I've yet to try the ML, it sounds like maybe this was the start of the more obvious scripting then from what you're saying. I suppose you could play a couple of exhibition matches to see if it's the delay rather than a cheating CPU

I was playing PES earlier but I had to turn it off. Bloody Marcelo Bielsa was looking through the window watching me.

Let me know how you get on when you start your ML. Yes i will have a couple of exhibition matches and see how it goes.

Well, if you're not enjoying it @geeeeee, then it probably makes sense to take a break from the game.
I remember on my 08 save going through periods of time in which nothing seemed to work, I couldn't grab a win in any way I tried. It tested my limits, really. More than once I got so mad I replaced all the usual starting-11 players, fielded a completely new starting-11 on the following match
Also got very emotional, ML United was always topping the charts for most yellow and red cards per season; most of them were due to moments of pure rage on my behalf...

The "replace-100%-of-the-starting-11" strategy often worked, probably because I had to field in the 40-year-old Iougas, Valenys and Burchets so my levels of concentration skyrocketed, as I knew I had to give a lot more to get something out of these mediocre (BAD) talent than, say, when I used a fully-developed Gutierrez/El Moubarki/Ordaz or the quite talented newgens, and could rely on their great stats.

It’s good to hear it’s not just me. I fully understand what you mean by changing things drastically. Sometimes i would spend time picking players then once it went ‘pear shaped’ i would just do an automatic sort.

The more i think about it the more its a love hate thing. Earlier on in the season my defenders were heading balls away quite well. But in recent games they are getting rooted to the spot.

I feel like sticking with it but it’s not good that i am getting ratty.

 

[fmicablues7]

Maybe try another PES/FIFA and play a casual World Cup/Champions League/Konami Cup/etc... Sometimes it is good to take a break and discover or rediscover some other games. When you'll come back to PES 2008, it will feel fresh again.

 

[adams06]

Anyone know in which games Peter Brackley was comentator.? I know for: PES2 - PES6 , Michaels Owens WLS, World League Soccer 98 and Champions League 2000-2001. Some, else?

 

[Marlon Anthony]

@geeeeee We all go through it mate and it's the healthiest thing to do is take a break from PES for a few days, maybe even a couple of weeks and when you come back, it'll feel rejuvenating. You're probably just burnt out.

 

[Hoshii]

Hey @geeeeee i have only short time, but i was in the same position like you if you can remember? Yes, the famous script-bug..

So i took a break from playing and dived into more research, to come back and master this game and rip the AI once and for all. And maybe i sound like a broken record but i really can suggest to you to watch the first season of this ML playtrough of PES 6 with default players!

I'm sure it will not only teach something, but it will reignite the fire. I'm burning my self right now to be honest, since i think i spotted my mistakes, some unused technics and even some borderline upturned flaws by the game regarding the chosen difficulty level !

But i've got more important life stuff to do right now - which is good, cause it keeps me away and makes me even more hungrier! Motivation is key if you want to master something. All the best to you and keep that head up fam!

An interssting article about "Why He had to quit playing FIFA soccer"
https://www.polygon.com/2018/4/19/17256960/fifa-18-soccer-addiction

Here's the ML series from Lewis:

 

[miguelfcp]

For those moments when I'm feeling retro-PES fatigue, I fire up the Barnyard game on the PS2.


Once you see a cow riding a bike around the farm (skip to 2:50), PES' scripting will feel like a walk in the park.

 

[slamsoze]

I was searching info for Pro Evolution Soccer Management ps2 game.Has any of you guys experience over this KONAMi management game?After this I ended up to a SEGAs similar game “Let’s make a Soccer Team” something which is connected to a footy-sim named Virtua Pro Football, which to be honest seems like a cheap pes spin-off even in menus.The only revolutionary I saw is the dynamic stamina system it has.So sad neither Modern fifa nor modern pes have something like this implemented.Fifa tried something similar the latest years but it is primitive compared to this ps2 game!!!

 

[miguelfcp]

@slamsoze: I did a review of PES Management on my blog.

 

[Madmac79]

So, I wanted to play an old Pes again without too much thoughts, but with some purpose.

It came to my mind that I've never explored Pes 2011 as deserved. I did only a serious ML back in the days, and loved the hell out of it (among my favourite MLs ever). But I've won only an Italian Cup, no big trophies which is my aim with this save (to win everything possible).

I loaded up a save I barely started just some time ago. I've created from nothing Fc Riganpool; a custom team I built on I don't remember which one of the random D2 League (from which I've started, of course with the defaults), based on my Fc Rigan (the fantasy team I've always used in Pes games), and, of course, Liverpool (the original Fc Rigan was almost always based on ManU.. so in my headcanon I can see a derby or something arise from the both.. ok, nevermind my deliriums ).

The game let you start with small money in your pocket, so I raided my youth team, as I did with in my original save. I picked exactly the same four players: Schwarz, Shimizu, Palmieri and Oscar.

I'm arrived to the first january only 4 points to the second. This game is less hardcore than other Pes but I guarantee you that if you try to enforce a certain playstyle it can still be quite challenging. By the way, I'm having a lot of fun and despite the flaws, the stuff this game is good at is overwhelmingly good, at least to me.

Now I'll probably cut on a lot of defaults I'm not using, which are asking for contract renewals, and then maybe I'll promote a GK from the youth team as Ivarov is.. well, just bad, for as much as I love him he just did a lot of errors in this first round of games. I'd love to pick a midfielder but I think I'll save for the summer the big of the money.

 

[fmicablues7]

After my long PES break, i first started playing some PES2008 on PCSX2, but as always with this game, i grew tired of it because of the small amount of fouls, the easy cutbacks and the poor defensive positioning from the players leading to a too much arcadey experience IMO. It is actually a fun game, but for me it lacks the "solid" feel of the PES before PES6.

I dusted off my iso copy of WE8LE and it's been an amazing experience since then for so many reasons. It feels even better than PES3 for me now :

-The 1-touch mechanism is amazing. The technique stat is so much important. The clumsy defenders feel clumsy, having technically good players for goalkeeper and defenders is really helpful. You also can't ping-pong your way from defense to attack, unless you have very skilled players like Barcelona.
-The referees are IMO the best ever in the serie. The amount of fouls is the same as WE9LE, but referees actually give yellow and red cards accordingly.
-Shooting is very much improved from PES4. Much more powerful. On the other hand, the goalkeepers don't concede so easily the lobs.
-Playing against the CPU is hard. I've seen some very good team movements from the CPU. But the individuality is still awesome. Big teams are very scary and can crush you. Games against small teams can be sometimes a walk in the park, and other times a tight affair.
-Set pieces are very dangerous weapons, especially the free-kicks. Cristiano Ronaldo scored two free-kicks against me, and one was directed at the goalkeeper and not over the wall, it was very surprising, and my goalkeeper was caught off guard because of the effect put on the ball. Defenders actually go up on corners and free-kicks too, very useful when the defenders have good header and jump stats.
-In the others PES, i don't pay attention to the injury rating of the players, they are rare and usually do not last long. But this is completely different in this game, A players get sometimes injured and are not invicible. B players get injured fairly often. C players are a nightmare and can be out for as much as 50 weeks in the master league (maybe sometimes even more!)
-The game flow feels a lot like WE9LE with better attacking CPU and a bit less tight defenses.

The only problem i noticed until now is maybe the space left sometimes between the two center backs, but i'm sure it can be corrected with tweaked tactics, i will try to adapt some @Chenghis.Khan tactics.

Since the game is very hard to find in english (original is in japanese), here is a link for a patched game iso (no pc version sadly ). I really recommend you to give it a try. Use simply the same settings and steps i gave a few pages earlier for PCSX2. I also posted the option file, because you must import the option file if you want to have the player names in english:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ht4twcgmjftbhzn/WE8LE+Mix+Patch.iso
http://www.mediafire.com/download/t643ujh66i5ikt7/WE8LEOPT.psu

 

[baguettos]

I wish I did not throw away my old discs back in a day, I think 2008 was around the time when I quit getting them for a while. I do remember some good online matches and in one of those I scored a free kick with Rooney from around 35 meters and then another one direct from a corner kick with I forgot who in the same match. Was funny

 

[Bond!JamesBond!]

After my long PES break, i first started playing some PES2008 on PCSX2, but as always with this game, i grew tired of it because of the small amount of fouls, the easy cutbacks and the poor defensive positioning from the players leading to a too much arcadey experience IMO. It is actually a fun game, but for me it lacks the "solid" feel of the PES before PES6.

I dusted off my iso copy of WE8LE and it's been an amazing experience since then for so many reasons. It feels even better than PES3 for me now :

-The 1-touch mechanism is amazing. The technique stat is so much important. The clumsy defenders feel clumsy, having technically good players for goalkeeper and defenders is really helpful. You also can't ping-pong your way from defense to attack, unless you have very skilled players like Barcelona.
-The referees are IMO the best ever in the serie. The amount of fouls is the same as WE9LE, but referees actually give yellow and red cards accordingly.
-Shooting is very much improved from PES4. Much more powerful. On the other hand, the goalkeepers don't concede so easily the lobs.
-Playing against the CPU is hard. I've seen some very good team movements from the CPU. But the individuality is still awesome. Big teams are very scary and can crush you. Games against small teams can be sometimes a walk in the park, and other times a tight affair.
-Set pieces are very dangerous weapons, especially the free-kicks. Cristiano Ronaldo scored two free-kicks against me, and one was directed at the goalkeeper and not over the wall, it was very surprising, and my goalkeeper was caught off guard because of the effect put on the ball. Defenders actually go up on corners and free-kicks too, very useful when the defenders have good header and jump stats.
-In the others PES, i don't pay attention to the injury rating of the players, they are rare and usually do not last long. But this is completely different in this game, A players get sometimes injured and are not invicible. B players get injured fairly often. C players are a nightmare and can be out for as much as 50 weeks in the master league (maybe sometimes even more!)
-The game flow feels a lot like WE9LE with better attacking CPU and a bit less tight defenses.

The only problem i noticed until now is maybe the space left sometimes between the two center backs, but i'm sure it can be corrected with tweaked tactics, i will try to adapt some @Chenghis.Khan tactics.

Since the game is very hard to find in english (original is in japanese), here is a link for a patched game iso (no pc version sadly ). I really recommend you to give it a try. Use simply the same settings and steps i gave a few pages earlier for PCSX2. I also posted the option file, because you must import the option file if you want to have the player names in english:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ht4twcgmjftbhzn/WE8LE+Mix+Patch.iso
http://www.mediafire.com/download/t643ujh66i5ikt7/WE8LEOPT.psu

ball physics are better than FIFA 19......

it's worth more than PES 2019....
https://www.ebay.com/p/Winning-Eleven-8-Liveware-Evolution-Sony-PlayStation-2-2005/56253392?thm=1000

 

[gabrielacortes5]

I love this game and great idea!