The Retro-PES Corner

@WhoAteMeDinner: (you're a mindreader man, I was just writing the post about my PES3 ML when I saw that you had posted here!)

I'm playing on the PC this time, but not with any transfer restrictions. I may apply a few of them later on though, if I end up feeling that I need a tougher challenge...so far, it's tough enough!
 
miguelfcp said:
@miguelfcp ,

I often do this little test: pick out Vornander (or Sol Campbell/maybe Wes Morgan in more recent PES) and try to do something "out of his league" with the ball, like trying to dribble out opponents. I found that PES3 is one of the PES in which the game punishes you the most for these kind of stupid actions. Spend a second too much with the ball with a guy like Vornander and you'll be in trouble rightaway.

Also on PES3, you'll definitely feel the difference between facing a lower-level team or a team that has the likes of Michael Owen, Roberto Baggio...on PES5 it's easier to contain top-level offensive threats like those.

As for the more recent PES games, I don't play them, but given the rather mystical "Team Spirit" that overrides stats and skill in order to give an upper hand to the player who prays to the Gods the most, anyone looking for a semi-honest simulation at least won't be too pleased with those games.
Click to expand...


@miguelfcp, yup, as you know I am the "Vornanderinho's" biggest supporter. Always had him in my squad but he is terrible dribbling with the ball and in PES 3 you can lose the ball in half a second and concede a goal another second later. The Divine Ponytail, EMO and the likes of Recoba too are impossible to get the ball off by contrast in PES 3 and all you can do is kind of shepherd them away from the goal by having groups of defenders wall of routes into the penalty area.
 
miguelfcp said:
@WhoAteMeDinner: (you're a mindreader man, I was just writing the post about my PES3 ML when I saw that you had posted here!)

I'm playing on the PC this time, but not with any transfer restrictions. I may apply a few of them later on though, if I end up feeling that I need a tougher challenge...so far, it's tough enough!
Click to expand...

@miguelfcp , Yes we are always on the same retro-PES wavelength.:))
PES 3 is the one game edition that you can't get by playing an ML on, without having a few star players from the football galaxy in your squad to compete at the top difficulty level and get promotion. The likes of Adriano, Vieri, Crespo and Ronaldo are damn near impossible to stop without a few top defenders to blunt their attacking talents in PES 3.
 
I'm glad I don't play PES2019, or else by the time PES2020 was released I'd be yet to finish my first ML season. I'm becoming a very slow player...

Anyway, I'm almost done with the first season on my PES3 ML, the first ML I've played in PES3 since I can remember. Honestly, I only recall playing the ML mode since PES4-onwards, despite having played all the PES games since the PS1 days.

I started with Parma because of the gorgeous kits they have on the game. I remember back in the day playing with that team just so that I could appreciate how great the kits look.
parma-mutu.jpg

Isn't it beautiful?
So, Minanda, Castolo & the bunch took over this italian team for this ML save.

I used the classic 3-5-2, which as the PES fan knows, is the Master League Defaults trademark one.
Ivarov; Dulic, Vornander, Stremer/Valeny; Iouga, Celinili, Espimas, Ximelez, Minanda; Castolo, Barota.

Right from the start, it's clear that we wouldn't be able to play...like other teams play. You know, actual football. The difference in quality is so obvious on the pitch that if you try something a little too complex with a player that shouldn't be able to do it, as I told @ballsinwater, you'll be punished severely. That means, building up from the back with the likes of Vornander and Valeny? Get outta here!
Though the defaults on PES3 are less hopeless stats-wise than on later editions, still I'm finding that the difference in quality between them and other teams is more pronounced here.

So, our strategy is pretty simple:
kickoff -> ball to Vornander -> long-ball to Barota -> fight for the loose ball -> Castolo and Minanda, quick, do something! -> goal??? -> rinse and repeat

That doesn't mean we don't often build up a few decent plays, but since this game pretty much nails longball football so very well (try it out for yourselves, feels so goddamn good) and we are short of talent, "Route One" is our go-to-strategy more often than not. As a result, most of our matches look and play like football from the 1970s, and the only thing missing is the thick moustaches and gorgeous heads of hair (except for Espimas and Minanda's beautiful hairdos). And when the opponent joins in and decides to play longball football themselves? Oh my. The ball spends more time up in the air than on the ground.
Birds hate the Parma ML United team, I can tell you that much.

Anyway, I wasn't aware that one could get as many transfer windows as PES3 brings to the table. With the right moves, you can begin shaping your desired squad right off the bat on the first season, and have the players join in while you're still fighting for promotion to the D1. I did exactly that. This time, unlike other previous ventures of mine that you can read on this thread (somewhere buried in 133 pages of content here on the Corner :COOL:), I decided not to have any transfer restrictions, so rightaway I tried to get rid of as much defaults as I could.

The first to go were Dulic, Iouga, Njorgo and Harty, and I brought in:
- Espinosa: equatorian defender, 87 defense, 91 balance, a big guy who could easily be Sol Campbell in disguise: both because of his looks and his stats.
- Sznaucer: austrian? sideback/smf combo, doesn't have any weakness to his game. Replaces Ximelez as LWB.
- Grella: australian DMF/CMF, again a very balanced player who actually played for Parma back then.
- Mantorras (Malyorras on PES3): a striker from Angola, used to play for Benfica (Lisbonera). In real-life he had tremendous potential, was thought to be the next iteration of Eusebio, but his knee was absolutely destroyed after many recurrent injuries, so he ended up becoming a super-sub kind of player who played when Benfica needed a goal on those last 15/20 minutes of a match. The crowd usually started chanting "Deixem jogar o Mantorras" (let Mantorras play!), and when he was finally subbed in, they lost their shit everytime - sounded as if Benfica had just scored a goal.
I bought Mantorras for my ML team mostly because of what he meant in real-life, but he has some interesting stats such as 89 shot acc/79 shot technique and good speed stats, despite his only 72 attack stat.

Before these moves we were a mid-table team, and now we're fighting for promotion with just 3 matches to go until the end of the season. We're currently 2nd behind Lisbonera, but two other teams are right below us so we can't afford to lose more points from now on.
As for the D2 cup, we were eliminated in the first round.

Despite the upgrades, Parma is still playing Route One football, and so far it's working. Might the era of the "tiki-taka" be coming to an end?
 
miguelfcp said:
I'm glad I don't play PES2019, or else by the time PES2020 was released I'd be yet to finish my first ML season. I'm becoming a very slow player...

Anyway, I'm almost done with the first season on my PES3 ML, the first ML I've played in PES3 since I can remember. Honestly, I only recall playing the ML mode since PES4-onwards, despite having played all the PES games since the PS1 days.

I started with Parma because of the gorgeous kits they have on the game. I remember back in the day playing with that team just so that I could appreciate how great the kits look.
parma-mutu.jpg

Isn't it beautiful?
So, Minanda, Castolo & the bunch took over this italian team for this ML save.

I used the classic 3-5-2, which as the PES fan knows, is the Master League Defaults trademark one.
Ivarov; Dulic, Vornander, Stremer/Valeny; Iouga, Celinili, Espimas, Ximelez, Minanda; Castolo, Barota.

Right from the start, it's clear that we wouldn't be able to play...like other teams play. You know, actual football. The difference in quality is so obvious on the pitch that if you try something a little too complex with a player that shouldn't be able to do it, as I told @ballsinwater, you'll be punished severely. That means, building up from the back with the likes of Vornander and Valeny? Get outta here!
Though the defaults on PES3 are less hopeless stats-wise than on later editions, still I'm finding that the difference in quality between them and other teams is more pronounced here.

So, our strategy is pretty simple:
kickoff -> ball to Vornander -> long-ball to Barota -> fight for the loose ball -> Castolo and Minanda, quick, do something! -> goal??? -> rinse and repeat

That doesn't mean we don't often build up a few decent plays, but since this game pretty much nails longball football so very well (try it out for yourselves, feels so goddamn good) and we are short of talent, "Route One" is our go-to-strategy more often than not. As a result, most of our matches look and play like football from the 1970s, and the only thing missing is the thick moustaches and gorgeous heads of hair (except for Espimas and Minanda's beautiful hairdos). And when the opponent joins in and decides to play longball football themselves? Oh my. The ball spends more time up in the air than on the ground.
Birds hate the Parma ML United team, I can tell you that much.

Anyway, I wasn't aware that one could get as many transfer windows as PES3 brings to the table. With the right moves, you can begin shaping your desired squad right off the bat on the first season, and have the players join in while you're still fighting for promotion to the D1. I did exactly that. This time, unlike other previous ventures of mine that you can read on this thread (somewhere buried in 133 pages of content here on the Corner :COOL:), I decided not to have any transfer restrictions, so rightaway I tried to get rid of as much defaults as I could.

The first to go were Dulic, Iouga, Njorgo and Harty, and I brought in:
- Espinosa: equatorian defender, 87 defense, 91 balance, a big guy who could easily be Sol Campbell in disguise: both because of his looks and his stats.
- Sznaucer: austrian? sideback/smf combo, doesn't have any weakness to his game. Replaces Ximelez as LWB.
- Grella: australian DMF/CMF, again a very balanced player who actually played for Parma back then.
- Mantorras (Malyorras on PES3): a striker from Angola, used to play for Benfica (Lisbonera). In real-life he had tremendous potential, was thought to be the next iteration of Eusebio, but his knee was absolutely destroyed after many recurrent injuries, so he ended up becoming a super-sub kind of player who played when Benfica needed a goal on those last 15/20 minutes of a match. The crowd usually started chanting "Deixem jogar o Mantorras" (let Mantorras play!), and when he was finally subbed in, they lost their shit everytime - sounded as if Benfica had just scored a goal.
I bought Mantorras for my ML team mostly because of what he meant in real-life, but he has some interesting stats such as 89 shot acc/79 shot technique and good speed stats, despite his only 72 attack stat.

Before these moves we were a mid-table team, and now we're fighting for promotion with just 3 matches to go until the end of the season. We're currently 2nd behind Lisbonera, but two other teams are right below us so we can't afford to lose more points from now on.
As for the D2 cup, we were eliminated in the first round.

Despite the upgrades, Parma is still playing Route One football, and so far it's working. Might the era of the "tiki-taka" be coming to an end?
Click to expand...
I will post again soon some “memories” from pes3 as time my time is limited,but I was teased from Mantoras and couldn’t resist to ask.Miguel since you are from Portugal,did you have any memetype-joke about him back then.Here with my common buddies back then in the university,we had a very common about his age.Everybody in our party remembered him in , all iterations of pes played from pes3 to 6, to be always between 26-28 years old.We had an inside joke that he was 28 years since for ever, all his life.Even when he resigned I remember someone brought a Greek Sports newspaper around in 2008,where the article stated that the 28 yo Mantoras retired early due to injury problems.
You know,there were match players we used to make jokes about being in the same age for years,but Mantoras was the leader of them and the fact is that we may were wrong cause pre-2008 and the huge social media&google explosion our main source for European Leagues were the local sports radio and newspapers plus some highlights on Sunday night.Wikipedia,transfer market,YouTube etc,etc came after that year to our life. :P
 
@slamsoze: Yes, Mantorras was that kind of player who would have been hugely popular, maybe even all over the world, if he played nowadays with the social media hype around the sport. I have to say I'm surprised his "legend" reached Greece! He had a unique playing style, you could clearly feel his passion when he played, and was immensely talented...but that knee...poor guy.
Anyway, with all that frenzy around him, he was the "meme-player" before memes existed :DD I've never seen anything like it ever again. I can tell you I've seen Benfica supporters celebrate league titles with less passion than when Mantorras played a match and scored a goal...and the guy had a thing for scoring EXACTLY when the team needed a goal, doesn't matter if he played 5/10/15/20 minutes (because of the pain on his knee, he couldn't play more minutes than that) he scored anyway.
 
I remember Mantorras being talked about even in Italy, when he was a young promise, including the "new Eusebio" fame.. a good number of teams were supposedly interested in him, even my Lazio (mainly why I remember him.. don't even know if the interest was real as football newspapers used to make up an infinite number of fake negotiations.. it's super big in our culture, I imagine it's like this in all the world but the italian proportion is absolutely out of scale).

Post injury memes about him never hit us tho lol, at least that I remember of. Hope he does have a C on the injury stat, but that's one of the rare cases Konami should have included a D level I guess.. lol.
 
In pes 5-6 he was a killer despite reality. He was also the only reliable No9 of Benfica in the default rosters.The other option Nuno Gomes was in a decline in pes and real life.
 
miguelfcp said:
building up from the back with the likes of Vornander and Valeny?
Click to expand...

I still remember attempting a lofted through ball with Valeny when he was playing right back. It went in the crowd :LOL:


miguelfcp said:
- Espinosa: equatorian defender, 87 defense, 91 balance, a big guy who could easily be Sol Campbell in disguise: both because of his looks and his stats.
Click to expand...

I thought you were going to say he was pompous and full of himself. :D
 
@mattmid: I admit it was a reckless decision but I tried out Valeny as a DMF due to the shortage of options on that front and, surprisingly, he's doing very well. Obviously he has to keep it quite simple when it comes to passing/dribbling but he looks like a natural DMF out there.

@slamsoze: Yeah, that statsheet pretty much reflects his skillset. However, he was already declining on PES5, he really peaked around 2001/2, maybe even earlier. I remember playing PES10 I think and he was on the Angola National Team with a glorious condition stat of...2!
Turns out he was also on PES11...condition and consistency 2! :DD
 
miguelfcp said:
I'm glad I don't play PES2019, or else by the time PES2020 was released I'd be yet to finish my first ML season. I'm becoming a very slow player...

Anyway, I'm almost done with the first season on my PES3 ML, the first ML I've played in PES3 since I can remember. Honestly, I only recall playing the ML mode since PES4-onwards, despite having played all the PES games since the PS1 days.

I started with Parma because of the gorgeous kits they have on the game. I remember back in the day playing with that team just so that I could appreciate how great the kits look.
parma-mutu.jpg

Isn't it beautiful?
So, Minanda, Castolo & the bunch took over this italian team for this ML save.

I used the classic 3-5-2, which as the PES fan knows, is the Master League Defaults trademark one.
Ivarov; Dulic, Vornander, Stremer/Valeny; Iouga, Celinili, Espimas, Ximelez, Minanda; Castolo, Barota.

Right from the start, it's clear that we wouldn't be able to play...like other teams play. You know, actual football. The difference in quality is so obvious on the pitch that if you try something a little too complex with a player that shouldn't be able to do it, as I told @ballsinwater, you'll be punished severely. That means, building up from the back with the likes of Vornander and Valeny? Get outta here!
Though the defaults on PES3 are less hopeless stats-wise than on later editions, still I'm finding that the difference in quality between them and other teams is more pronounced here.

So, our strategy is pretty simple:
kickoff -> ball to Vornander -> long-ball to Barota -> fight for the loose ball -> Castolo and Minanda, quick, do something! -> goal??? -> rinse and repeat

That doesn't mean we don't often build up a few decent plays, but since this game pretty much nails longball football so very well (try it out for yourselves, feels so goddamn good) and we are short of talent, "Route One" is our go-to-strategy more often than not. As a result, most of our matches look and play like football from the 1970s, and the only thing missing is the thick moustaches and gorgeous heads of hair (except for Espimas and Minanda's beautiful hairdos). And when the opponent joins in and decides to play longball football themselves? Oh my. The ball spends more time up in the air than on the ground.
Birds hate the Parma ML United team, I can tell you that much.

Anyway, I wasn't aware that one could get as many transfer windows as PES3 brings to the table. With the right moves, you can begin shaping your desired squad right off the bat on the first season, and have the players join in while you're still fighting for promotion to the D1. I did exactly that. This time, unlike other previous ventures of mine that you can read on this thread (somewhere buried in 133 pages of content here on the Corner :COOL:), I decided not to have any transfer restrictions, so rightaway I tried to get rid of as much defaults as I could.

The first to go were Dulic, Iouga, Njorgo and Harty, and I brought in:
- Espinosa: equatorian defender, 87 defense, 91 balance, a big guy who could easily be Sol Campbell in disguise: both because of his looks and his stats.
- Sznaucer: austrian? sideback/smf combo, doesn't have any weakness to his game. Replaces Ximelez as LWB.
- Grella: australian DMF/CMF, again a very balanced player who actually played for Parma back then.
- Mantorras (Malyorras on PES3): a striker from Angola, used to play for Benfica (Lisbonera). In real-life he had tremendous potential, was thought to be the next iteration of Eusebio, but his knee was absolutely destroyed after many recurrent injuries, so he ended up becoming a super-sub kind of player who played when Benfica needed a goal on those last 15/20 minutes of a match. The crowd usually started chanting "Deixem jogar o Mantorras" (let Mantorras play!), and when he was finally subbed in, they lost their shit everytime - sounded as if Benfica had just scored a goal.
I bought Mantorras for my ML team mostly because of what he meant in real-life, but he has some interesting stats such as 89 shot acc/79 shot technique and good speed stats, despite his only 72 attack stat.

Before these moves we were a mid-table team, and now we're fighting for promotion with just 3 matches to go until the end of the season. We're currently 2nd behind Lisbonera, but two other teams are right below us so we can't afford to lose more points from now on.
As for the D2 cup, we were eliminated in the first round.

Despite the upgrades, Parma is still playing Route One football, and so far it's working. Might the era of the "tiki-taka" be coming to an end?
Click to expand...

@miguelfcp, gorgeous kit alright. The five or six official licensed teams in PES 3 were almost all Serie A outfits and Pierluigi Collina on the box cover. This game is for the football purists for sure.
:LOVE::LOVE::LOVE:
But back to your first PES 3 Master League in donkey's years and second in the table at the top difficulty level in your first season with just three half-decent player signings. That is astounding stuff as PES 3 is such a different and faster paced game than all other editions.
 
@WhoAteMeDinner: To be fair, I only reached the top-2 after a win vs another contender to the promotion. Before that win, I had never even been on the top-3.

Anyway, it's all gone now. Had a problem with my (very old) "gaming" PC and lost everything on it, including this ML save. Thank God I had my editing work on the cloud, but still I'll have to reinstall everything now - games, mods, and all that jazz.
 
So I haven't played PES 2019 here lately as I have been playing some old school PES games as well as other old school football games on the Playstation Classic. Besides the PS1 football games, I have NES, SNES, N64, PSP, and NEO Geo football games loaded up on the Playstation Classic as well. My 17 year old doesn't even want to touch it.....His first system was the PS3 so all these old system games are to old for him, LOL.

Anyone remember Konami Hyper Soccer on NES? Have it loaded up too.

Here is a pictue of my PS1 games setup. Have 95 PS1 football games loaded.

MoeDEGe.png
 
PesBuck said:
So I haven't played PES 2019 here lately as I have been playing some old school PES games as well as other old school football games on the Playstation Classic. Besides the PS1 football games, I have NES, SNES, N64, PSP, and NEO Geo football games loaded up on the Playstation Classic as well. My 17 year old doesn't even want to touch it.....His first system was the PS3 so all these old system games are to old for him, LOL.

Anyone remember Konami Hyper Soccer on NES? Have it loaded up too.

Here is a pictue of my PS1 games setup. Have 95 PS1 football games loaded.

MoeDEGe.png
Click to expand...
Woah.

That is pretty amazing, would love to have a go on that! With LMA Manager games on there too I don't know if I'd ever leave the house again...
 
@PesBuck: whoa, 95 football games? The PS Classic is starting to sound like a nice purchase, despite having been absolutely torched by professional and amateur reviewers alike.
I'd tell your son: "these games are not old. They are interactive encyclopedias of football. They are timeless classics. They are games without the foofery and faffery, the stress of modern online gaming: it's gaming as gaming is supposed to be: fun, exciting, challenging, but honest, straight-to-the-point, no bullsh*t. A man's game."
 
@Chris Davies - LMA Manager, 2001, and 2002. - For me, some of these games I never had a chance to play living across the pond as no North America release.

@miguelfcp I will give him some small credit --- while he's not interested in the old school games on old systems, at least he's into the LEGENDS of the game. On PES 2018, I installed Emersons Classic OF that has several different classic leagues and classic national teams along with Slarkmeister's Classic Champions of Europe and he wanted it too but didn't have image space for a dual OF on different account so I ordered him a UK version of the game to install it on. At least he's into history of the yester year players.

The Playstation Classic @ the price point of $99 was a no go. In it's current state of $59.99 price drop was still a no go for me personally, but being able to be hacked was the selling point. I am using AutoBleem bundled with RetroArch on a 64gb thumbdrive and still have 9.5gb's left.
 
How did you get all those games on :CONFUSE:
I think my life would be over if I had access to all those :LOL:
There is a footy game for PS1 that had a ridiculous amount of classic teams but I can't remember what it was called.
 
Titch said:
How did you get all those games on :CONFUSE:
I think my life would be over if I had access to all those :LOL:
There is a footy game for PS1 that had a ridiculous amount of classic teams but I can't remember what it was called.
Click to expand...
Viva Football?

 
Had some fantastic games on WE8I yesterday. The gameplay is slightly worse than WE8LE, but still great. The hair flickering bug on pcsx2 annoys me, so i may stick with WE8I, the graphics are fantastic with juce's latest kitserver.
 
It must be that. From what I could see it had very obscure national teams from different years. Is that on the classic mini?
 
Titch said:
It must be that. From what I could see it had very obscure national teams from different years. Is that on the classic mini?
Click to expand...
None of these football games are on the PS Classic by default, the game selection is pretty horrible. But thankfully (so I've read) they're easy to hack around and put your own selection on, as @PesBuck has done.
 
Titch said:
Yeah only 20 games. In fact there are no footy games at all.
Click to expand...
Oh sorry, did you mean is the video taken from it? No, I think the video is taken from a PC emulator but I might be wrong!

Used to love Viva Football though, playing all of the old World Cups with the real teams (before licensing laws and image rights stopped it from happening ever again).
 
Titch said:
Yeah I kind of guessed it would be emulator.
Did it only have national teams?
Click to expand...
Pretty sure it was national teams only (and a quick Google seems to confirm it). You could even go through qualifying for every single one of the World Cups included - you don't get that any more...
 
miguelfcp said:
"These games are not old. They are interactive encyclopedias of football. They are timeless classics. They are games without the foofery and faffery, the stress of modern online gaming: it's gaming as gaming is supposed to be: fun, exciting, challenging, but honest, straight-to-the-point, no bullsh*t. A man's game."
Click to expand...

That was a thing of beauty. A tear in my eye as i read that. May i take that and use it in my signature? Truly poetic and no better way to sum up the ethos of Retro PES and Retro football games. These are pieces of history and it's down to use preserve and to promote to a new generation of younger gamers, that these games don't just have nostalgic charm that's redundant if you didn't grow up with them, that when given the time of day are surprisingly deep, complex, sophisticated and above all else, fun!
 
PesBuck said:
@Chris Davies - LMA Manager, 2001, and 2002. - For me, some of these games I never had a chance to play living across the pond as no North America release.

@miguelfcpThe Playstation Classic @ the price point of $99 was a no go. In it's current state of $59.99 price drop was still a no go for me personally, but being able to be hacked was the selling point. I am using AutoBleem bundled with RetroArch on a 64gb thumbdrive and still have 9.5gb's left.
Click to expand...
I have been tempted, i've seen it as low as £20 locally but of course, would hack the shit out of it. If they can get wireless PS4 controller support and if the scanline/CRT filters hold up then i'm in.

I've seen how short the PS2 Classic controller leads are and thought how the hell is that supposed to appeal to the lounge gamer? Same thing that's deterring me from the SNES classic although that looks like a complete package compared to the PS1 classic vanilla.
 
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