Tomb Raider

I perfectly understand you two since i am also an old gamer, from the era of Atari and NES. Games are changind because a new generation of gamers demands something different, things that weren´t necessary to please ourselves in the past, and i don´t see that as a bad thing, it´s just the natural course of things. What would you expect, that the game companies kept making games that please old generation gamers forever?

I think we just have to accept the new games if we want to continue as gamers, and enjoy it without expecting too much for them, or maybe find indie games that are made specifically for old gamers audiance... or go find another hobby maybe... :P

When i said that Zero was an unhappy person (i was kidding, of course, since i don´t know him personally) it was just because i think it´s a waste of time to just complain about new games instead of accept the inevitable changes of games industry.
 
Yeah, you make some good points but I certainly wouldn't mind more quality in the games, so that it at least gets close to the past ones! :D

spektarm said:
You can get a pack with all of the older TR games at a great price on Steam, totally worth every penny. The thing is, those were real masterpieces, games of which you'd get a real sense of achievement at the end.
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And in case anyone's missed that, here it is. I think there was a one without the 2013 title for those who already have it but they must have removed it for some reason...

http://store.steampowered.com/sub/26663
 
ZeroTheHero said:
That's an over-generalization in my opinion.

Video games are getting worse because the kids today is all about the graphics and game developers don't want to walk an extra mile to blow you away. All the games mentioned here could have been utterly fantastic with a little more effort put into balance and depth.
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Video games aren't getting worse, they're getting better. When were they ever better than they are now? When did anyone ever have the ability to make games like Skyrim, GTA V, Or be able to tell a more convincing story with stuff like The Last of Us or Tomb Raider?

Games used to be more restricted than they are now because they didn't have the technology, budget or manpower. Games back in the day were revolutionary but in no way would I agree that they were better games. The levels of detail, control and scope in modern games is crazy in comparison.

As for Tomb Raider, I pretty much went from a to b, searched around a bit, enjoyed the atmosphere and graphics, and enjoyed the characterisation. The average time it takes to complete is supposedly officially between 12-15 hours and that's what it took. Oh and I loved Bioshock Infinite too!
 
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ZeroTheHero said:
That's an over-generalization in my opinion.

Video games are getting worse because the kids today is all about the graphics and game developers don't want to walk an extra mile to blow you away. All the games mentioned here could have been utterly fantastic with a little more effort put into balance and depth.
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Yeah. Just look at this game:
Dying Light

Basically just a generic Dead Island unofficial sequel with shinier graphics. With all these recent technologies, one should expect something revolutionary not anything like this.

You look at Project Zomboid, that's what I called proper survival-horror title. Unfortunately it doesn't have the backing of big name publisher. So it stuck with Java engine since the day it was initially developed 3 years ago.
 
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Suuuuupertalk said:
Video games aren't getting worse, they're getting better. When were they ever better than they are now? When did anyone ever have the ability to make games like Skyrim, GTA V, Or be able to tell a more convincing story with stuff like The Last of Us or Tomb Raider?
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You aren't getting my point. They aren't getting better but they are evidently nicer to look at. The games are generally getting worse, which is the part that concerns me. They are shorter, shallower and buggier than ever.

Maybe you like that kind of games but I'm sure you wouldn't hate a game that was better either. I want you to expect more, because it would easily become better. The parts I want improved just takes time (money) not gigabytes of space and memory requirements.

Suuuuupertalk said:
Games used to be more restricted than they are now because they didn't have the technology, budget or manpower. Games back in the day were revolutionary but in no way would I agree that they were better games. The levels of detail, control and scope in modern games is crazy in comparison.
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I think you're blinded by the graphical beauty of games today. I don't mean that offensively at all and you're not alone. Just take a (former) popular game series like Silent Hunter or even PES which you should be familiar with. They don't get more detailed at all, they get stripped down and simpler at the same rate as the graphics go up. To be honest I'd prefer gameplay and depth over graphics. The graphics are generally only blowing me away for the first five minutes anyway.


Suuuuupertalk said:
As for Tomb Raider, I pretty much went from a to b, searched around a bit, enjoyed the atmosphere and graphics, and enjoyed the characterisation. The average time it takes to complete is supposedly officially between 12-15 hours and that's what it took. Oh and I loved Bioshock Infinite too!
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Exactly, you followed the instructions on the screen from A to B. I don't fucking want those instructions. "Walk there" "open box" "rest for a while" "take your thumb out of your arse" "hunt a deer". For gods sake I thought it was just a tutorial thing and when the game ended I felt like the whole thing was a tutorial. Leave me stranded on the island with only basic instructions on how to move, fight and craft and I'll figure out the rest. Remove those big dump pointers to make the secret paths obvious and make the puzzles actually puzzle me. Is that really too much to ask? Just gimme a fucking option to NOT BEING HELD BY THE HAND THE ENTIRE GAME! That would probably take the developers like an hour to implement.

The game even switched weapons for you because a quick timed even required that specific weapon over an over. The games are MUCH more restricted today than ever before, despite having the possibility not to. They set these restrictions because they are LAZY and nobody seem to complain so they get away with half arsed all the time.

While we're talking about restrictions; Most people say that newer Assassin's Creed are less restricted than the first. Well OK, you had restrictions to where you could go at any given moment in AC1 but you actually had TOTAL freedom how you wanted to kill each mark. There was no "invisible in the endless crowds" gimmick, there was no completion guide saying you should kill the guy from a bench, basically giving you the easiest way and punishing you for not following. If you wanted to kill all of them "perfectly" as an actual assassin at one point you had to time a jump-kill from a roof while you could not actually see the mark for the last 15 seconds, and the simple air assassination gimmick wasn't implemented, so if you missed the mark by just a little you DID NOT MAKE IT! Then you had to run around town chasing the bastard... because YOU failed. In the newer versions there's a cut scene prior to everything that decides everything for you, so sometimes you have no choice but to run like a douche around town to kill the bastards.
In black flag, for example, every damn kill and many side quests were simply to follow some dudes around within a certain radius and listen to their pointless banter to find out where the next guy you could eavesdrop were. Besides, you could freeroam in AC1 as well but many people didn't do it because it wasn't great. Guess what, Black Flag free roam is exactly the same, but suddenly everybody seem to love doing the same stuff over and over. AC1 had a strong sense of achievement for doing it "the assassin way" but was fully playable for those who went the "running around town" after their mark as well.

No offense, but the quality and depths of games are decreasing partially because of players like you. This is simply because the industry pick up your satisfaction level with inferior products and keep feeding you exactly that. If you're happy with games today, good for you. Please just don't expect everyone to be happy with mediocre products. Every game today is rushed to the market, and it shows.


@losslesscompression
That game didn't look half bad. I might check that one out, thanks for the tip. I'm looking forward to Dead State personally. I'm not much of a zombie fan but I do like RPG's so I'm less biased about the setting.

EDIT: I actually bought Project Zomboid right away. Doesn't matter if I don't like it as I hardly read about before buying but I wanna support independent creativity. It looked really cool though.
 
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Okay, so in your opinion, what games from back in the days of SNES, PS1 or even PS2 offer longer games with more open worlds to do what you want in them?

As for Tomb Raider, yes it is incredibly linear, I agree, as are Uncharted and The Last of Us. But they a different genre to more open world games. They're tight narrative games all about the story and dramatic set-pieces, not free-roaming games where you can do what you want. My point is that there are more types of games than ever before and those that do offer freedom to the player do a heck of a better job than any others before.
 
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There are more types of games, undeniably and the possibilities of the developers are huge compared to ten and fifteen years ago. Still, many games were less linear, deeper stories and more open world back then.

I'm not talking about snes, PS1 and PS2 because the consoles are another major component limiting games today. I'm talking about proper personal computer games. Arena and Daggerfall vs Oblivion and Skyrim for example. The world has shrinked by 90% from Daggerfall to Skyrim.

Take a game like Mafia for PC, if you parked a car across town it would still be there when you drove back a day later. In Mafia II, which was developed for consoles, you park a car and turn your back and walk 15 meters and turn back around and the car is GONE! WOW that's impressive, thank you very much.

If you're a console gamer, then it's no point in discussing it further. Console games has always been limited. Games today are poorer in every single aspect except visually. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. Whether you like the games of today better is a fair opinion. I just don't.
 
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I can definitely see where you're coming from Zero - there are so many of these distinctly average run-of-the-mill games with 8 hour (or less) single player campaigns, average gameplay with the story of a B-movie that receive critical acclaim and are regarded as "GOTY contenders"...

I was surprised to see you mention Skyrim, but come to think of it, you're probably right. The combat is poor, the AI is dumb, most of the characters and side-quests are forgettable and as you say, you can decide you want your tank Nord warrior to be a master assassin half way through your playthrough... No problem!
They made a large and fairly detailed map that you can explore at your own pace, and there's hours and hours of content - these two things are unlike the majority of other games out there, so are probably why I hold it in high regard in recent years of gaming. I never played Arena, Daggerfall or Morrowind though.
 
I am, however, fully aware that Skyrim with the correct amount of mods for combat, realism and immersion is a fairly decent game. I am going to make an archer type to avoid much melee and try to enjoy it once more.

I am criticizing the original game, not the massively modded version. Most games today are playable and enjoyable once the community has modded enough of the stupidity and limitations away. Modding back in most of the stuff that made games better before. Hard to improve the main quests though...
 
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Fair enough, we all have different opinions. I am console only so maybe I just don't see it. That said, I've never experienced anything like the storytelling, tension, atmosphere and balance as in something like The Last of Us. Yet at the same time it's an incredibly linear game. You basically get funnelled down area to area with nowhere to explore, but because the game isn't designed to be open (it'd get in the way of the storytelling and set-pieces) then that's okay with me.

I guess what I'm saying is there's room for a mix of different levels of freedom depending on what you're after. For me, Tomb Raider very much falls in the same category as The Last of Us or Uncharted. It's a very specific genre in itself, one you either enjoy or you don't. Personally, I think this genre would be awful if the acting and storytelling wasn't up to scratch as is the case in so many other games, but the fact that they absolutely nail these aspects are what make them so great. I love Skyrim for its open worldness, but the acting and general storytelling was pretty poor. GTAV is the first open-world game I've played that bridges between both, I think they've set the standard there.
 
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Suuuuupertalk said:
Fair enough, we all have different opinions. I am console only so maybe I just don't see it. That said, I've never experienced anything like the storytelling, tension, atmosphere and balance as in something like The Last of Us. Yet at the same time it's an incredibly linear game. You basically get funnelled down area to area with nowhere to explore, but because the game isn't designed to be open (it'd get in the way of the storytelling and set-pieces) then that's okay with me.

I guess what I'm saying is there's room for a mix of different levels of freedom depending on what you're after. For me, Tomb Raider very much falls in the same category as The Last of Us or Uncharted. It's a very specific genre in itself, one you either enjoy or you don't. Personally, I think this genre would be awful if the acting and storytelling wasn't up to scratch as is the case in so many other games, but the fact that they absolutely nail these aspects are what make them so great. I love Skyrim for its open worldness, but the acting and general storytelling was pretty poor. GTAV is the first open-world game I've played that bridges between both, I think they've set the standard there.
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+1
 
http://www.rocketchainsaw.com.au/ex...finitive-edition-ps4xone-framerates-revealed/

Verified sources close to Rocket Chainsaw have detailed performance and rendering quality of both the Xbox One and PlayStation builds of Tomb Raider: Definitive Edition. And for that we’re thankful. So here it is!

On average:
PlayStation 4 = 60 fps
Xbox One = 30 fps
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Not the be all and end all but must be starting to get a little embarrassing for MS and a little worrying for Xbone early adopters.
 
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Placebo said:
Somewhere like my post 6 days ago in this thread you mean? ;)
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Probably! But I also read it yesterday in a Spanish magazine. So it's a double confirmation.

If I read somewhere else that certain cutscenes had to be downscaled to 900p I'll let you now as well. :P
 
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I bet you love the way your hands are held throughout the game as well then?

Prescription tools (rope arrows.. duh) rather than exploration and experimentation?

Thief (2014) is the same way, by the way. You can turn off most of the handholding but the fact remains that you're very restricted and the rope arrows works similarly to Tomb Raider in the way that there are only special wooden areas that the arrows will work. The city is full of paint splashes and scratch marks to make sure the players hand is firmly held throughout the game.

It's pathetic...

I was thinking of writing a review of the game but it's pretty much all said (by myself) in this thread so I figured transforming this thread into a hall of shame for games of great potential but zero play value.


EDIT: there actually is a thief thread already... oh well.
 
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Nah, Tomb Raid is awesome. Great combat, fantastic graphics and atmosphere, great story. It's not meant to be an exploration game, it's a fixed action game that is restricted to emphasise the narrative.

Not every game has to be a sprawling open world to be good.
 
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