WEPES2007 / PES6 Vs. UEFA Champions League

[Trance_Allstar]

I'm against the rigid gameplay as well, which is why I've been playing FIFA/UEFA more and more. Your movement is so much more free - but I will admit that when it comes to dribbling, you can't exactly move "precisely" (well, you can, but it takes a lot of practice and knowing that you have to press the button a second before you actually want to do the move you're planning). However, it's no better on PES from what I can see; after playing UEFA and playing PES again, it is like going from the year 2007 to 2000 - from human to robotic.

But I'm rambling on again... I'll be getting banned from here soon I'm sure, haha. I totally agree with everything you say about tricks and the trickstick. I hope that Konami (and EA) stand up and take notice of suggestions like yours, rather than ignore them and go with their own crackpot ideas like they usually do.

I also agree about FIFA being slightly harder to control. in PES the gameplay is rigid, but you have very easily predictable "points" where you know that the player will perform a move or pass or whatever you want him to. FIFA is alot less rigid, but also harder to predict and anticipate in terms of what the player will do and when.

I would like ot see a bit more structure in FIFA (slightly more "blocky" or predictable movements if you will), in moves etc, where a move, or point where you can pass/shoot etc is slightly more predictable perhaps. Part of me thinks that PES is slightly better at giving you the feel that the player has to put his foot down before he can turn, whereas FIFA gives me the feeling sometimes of you being able to turn before the foot is put down, or there is not enough accentuation of the way the foot is put on the ground and the player moving/changing direction from that foot. Not alot at all, just a tad to bring it slightly closer to PES. Most would argue that it isn't necessary, and it is probably only the way I like thigns after 3 years of playing PES in different forms.

Also FIFA needs "Supercancel", since players sometimes will stand still in anticipation of a pass, or won't move to intercept a ballpath when you want him to. But I think a supercancel function is somewhere in there (like holding L when running or smtn, or doubletapping it, I have no idea really... , or maybe only in PC version. I'll look into it.

 

[Chris Davies]

I remember Kevano saying a while ago that he'd found a supercancel button on FIFA 07 on the 360, but whether it was a coincidence or not I don't know. But, again, I agree with you. There's a still a lot that could be added to FIFA/UEFA, but it's my view that whereas PES is standing still (whether it has good ideas or not), FIFA is taking huge leaps forward and trying new things.

I'm not as hopeful as the guys who say the first (or second for that matter) PES on the PS3 will be a wonderful, next-gen experience. In my eyes the gameplay engine in all PES games is the same basic engine as was featured in ISS PE2 on the PSone. If Seabass can't take more from a PS2's power, I don't think he will be able to from a PS3 either.

With EA, it's emerged today that they have one team working on UEFA CL, and the original FIFA 07 team working on FIFA 08. Konami don't do that; they have their single team making two/three games every year, so of course they are going to struggle to make leaps in their games - they're being given so little time to work with. By the time they've added a new feint and strengthened the defenders or whatever, and the time that's been tested, the game will be due for release.

But as has been said before, if both games sell well and are in constant competition with eachother, then that will lead to even more improvements. I just hope that A) Konami sack Seabass (as it seems to me he was a genius with a PSone - and nothing more), B) that EA keep with the team that made FIFA 07 for a few years (as their work has been the biggest breath of fresh air I've seen in a football game for a long time), and C) that the PES fanboys and FIFA fanboys try the opposite game with each release so that they don't miss out on something.

 

[Trance_Allstar]

I remember Kevano saying a while ago that he'd found a supercancel button on FIFA 07 on the 360, but whether it was a coincidence or not I don't know. But, again, I agree with you. There's a still a lot that could be added to FIFA/UEFA, but it's my view that whereas PES is standing still (whether it has good ideas or not), FIFA is taking huge leaps forward and trying new things.

I'm not as hopeful as the guys who say the first (or second for that matter) PES on the PS3 will be a wonderful, next-gen experience. In my eyes the gameplay engine in all PES games is the same basic engine as was featured in ISS PE2 on the PSone. If Seabass can't take more from a PS2's power, I don't think he will be able to from a PS3 either.

With EA, it's emerged today that they have one team working on UEFA CL, and the original FIFA 07 team working on FIFA 08. Konami don't do that; they have their single team making two/three games every year, so of course they are going to struggle to make leaps in their games - they're being given so little time to work with. By the time they've added a new feint and strengthened the defenders or whatever, and the time that's been tested, the game will be due for release.

But as has been said before, if both games sell well and are in constant competition with eachother, then that will lead to even more improvements. I just hope that A) Konami sack Seabass (as it seems to me he was a genius with a PSone - and nothing more), B) that EA keep with the team that made FIFA 07 for a few years (as their work has been the biggest breath of fresh air I've seen in a football game for a long time), and C) that the PES fanboys and FIFA fanboys try the opposite game with each release so that they don't miss out on something.

I love EA and their physics-endeavours, aswell as players carrying their weight and such, and use proper footing. Also the accuracy of their engine when it comes to collision detection is really sweet to see in action (x360 that is).

I have also said it alot. Bring out 1 (one) PES per year, everywhere simultaneously. A simple language change cannot be that big a deal. I don't see the reason for bringing out a different Japanese and European version, football is football no matter where you look (or did I miss the part where Europeans like Arcade style and Japanese ppl like Simulation or similar).

PES also needs to really set it's goal to be a simulation, not just a fun game. Because if you are serious enough about soccer, simulation is all that will do. I am recovering from a knee injury since 6 months, and this is the only outlet with football I have, so I want it to be very nuanced, free and modeled after the real deal.

PES7 is a pivot point, it will show where they want to takr the game. I actually hope that PES6 was a rushed mistake, because that's what it was. Sloppy, floppy and incoherent ("animation speed vs. ballspeed during alot of shots" makes ball travel alot slower than the shot animation and speed of boot hitting the ball suggests, "goalkeeper speed along the lines vs. freekick ball speed" makes goalkeepers sidestep along the goallines almost with the same speed of players running fullspeed ahead, with no delay during acceleration phase). Stuff that physically makes no sense.

Also the goalkeepers are retarded when they try onehanded saves with the wrong hand (when they could just have stretched the other hand out aswell and the ball would have clearly hit it).


I would really like to see a third major soccer release hit the market. A studio with very advanced knowledge of physics and animation should make a soccer game. It's what I believe: if you get the physics and animations like real-life, the rest will just fall into place.




Just look at EUPHORIA, which is the game-version of ENDORPHINE, an animation system modeled to make subjects act like real people when they are subjected to a force like being hit or similar.

Indiana Jones for the x360 (I believe it is) will have it, and what it does is animate humans based on skeletal and muscle systems controlled by alot of different parameters. if you hit a person in the game, he will fall differently every time, and he will get up by himself in the best way.


EUPHORIA: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fACZMsKN7fk


Imagine that in a soccer game, every player running into another would be struggling for balance like a real player, if players are hit on the arm with a shot their arm will move and jerk authentically from the impact.
Also, this would mean that you can simulate rela injuries by the amount of force that is exerted on a bodypart. Anything from a muscle injury to a skeletal injury would be possible to accurately model. So if a player runs headfirst into the post, he will get hurt bad. This would also mean that you would have to avoid running into stuff, since you can hurt players badly if you do. Imagine not going into challanges since Ronaldinho is tired and you don't want to risk him early in the season for example. That adds a whole new element to the game, where you think like in real-life to get the best out of the game. if you come free with the goalkeeper, you can try and slot it in by the post. Or you can try and give Adriano full shotpower to try and knock Peter Cech out of the game.

Watch the end of this one with the NFL clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae3fgj2x1aI
Or this with music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdImUIhbG9E

It's the stuff dreams are made of.

 

[Chris Davies]

I have also said it alot. Bring out 1 (one) PES per year, everywhere simultaneously. A simple language change cannot be that big a deal. I don't see the reason for bringing out a different Japanese and European version, football is football no matter where you look (or did I miss the part where Europeans like Arcade style and Japanese ppl like Simulation or similar).

There was a Japanese/English website a while ago (and I mean years ago now) that said it was almost Japanese culture to expect their games to cheat and make it near-impossible for the player to win (hence PES's every-time-you-tackle-and-get-the-ball-it-will-bobble-to-us technique - there was a guy on these forums who did a test the other month, and found out that in friendlies the amount of times tackles led to gaining the ball was something like 80%, whereas in the Master League it was well below 20% - sickening).

But aside from that, as has been discussed in the "make the game region free" thread that's around, you'd have Europeans trying to play against Japs, and it's not like Battlefield where the console only has to send one lot of data, it has to send data for the player you're controlling and your teammates - the lag would be incredible, unless Konami skipped gameplay enhancements for a few years and concentrated on optimising the multiplayer code instead.

I would really like to see a third major soccer release hit the market. A studio with very advanced knowledge of physics and animation should make a soccer game. It's what I believe: if you get the physics and animations like real-life, the rest will just fall into place.

There used to be Sony's This Is Football (which tried to be simulation and arcade at the same time - whenever you try to do that, you're always going to make something that's awful because you're missing important parts of both aspects no matter how much effort you put into it). There are a few rumours that there will be a new one coming along at some point on the PS3, but the game has never sold very well and so I'd be suprised if it did. I agree though - the more competition the better.

There was another football game from Japan called Virtua Pro Football - published by SEGA. It was released last year, and there was a European version. It was pretty awful, but it had some good ideas (such as zooming in when you selected to close-control the ball), and it had so so many European leagues, with the lower leagues included as well (unlicensed though, but who cares) - meaning that I could play as my beloved team. This made me wonder how a team making a game nobody cares about can be bothered to include lower-league teams and yet Konami just keep their money in the bank and say "who wants to play as a lower-league team when you can be Manchester United and buy £60m players"... For as long as the Japanese customers are happy (and they get the J-League versions too), then Konami are happy. They don't give a toss about their European customers - we get what we're given.

Just look at EUPHORIA, which is the game-version of ENDORPHINE, an animation system modeled to make subjects act like real people when they are subjected to a force like being hit or similar.

I've seen info on this before - it looks incredible. The day that they can implement this on 22 virtual players at the same time, and they get all of the animations right, then it will be heaven. Literally like one of those dreams where you're in the future and you can't believe how great football games have become, haha.

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Some sleep and I'm back.

Well, Japanese ppl are crazy. Whenever the computer cheats, I cry. I just don't see why my players should become slower and incredibly unresponsive just because the other team has home pitch/is ACMilan/whatever. It's been discussed before obviously, but it just ruins everything.


As for the online aspect, it would be pretty simple to sort players into categories depending on country I presume. If it lags when ppl play against japanese players, then one would avoid it I think.

TO me tho the whole online mode is invalid. I am so used to being able to make split-second decisions with supercancel or whatever. The times I've played Online I've lost all feeling of the game. The slightly lag causes the whole "feel" of the game to dissappear. It's like changing dampers on your car so instead of feeling every bump in the road and knowing what the car is doing, you just slowly bounce around without even knowing you are moving, and the car can at any time decide to start skidding sideways. Great analogy right?


I played TIF on PS2 once. Can't say it was good, but I remember the deliberate dive-function. Can't say that was good either.

But a competing and competent footy game would be nice indeed.


I'm from Sweden so lower leagues is not a problem (don't really like Swedish soccer (low-quality imho and "my" team is in Div. 1. But I agree that it could easily be added. I mean, just half-arse it and some option file modder can surely whip it into pretty good shape in an hour with player stats and all. Not that much effort required.

 

[Chris Davies]

Some sleep and I'm back.

Sleep is for the weak!!

Well, Japanese ppl are crazy. Whenever the computer cheats, I cry. I just don't see why my players should become slower and incredibly unresponsive just because the other team has home pitch/is ACMilan/whatever. It's been discussed before obviously, but it just ruins everything.

At least you acknowledge it; so many people say that it doesn't cheat and that you just "have to know how to play the game properly". Even when they're faced with evidence of it. It's been said in the past that they weren't cheats but bugs, and I subscribed to that theory for a while; until, as I've mentioned, there was a test done and the difference between the number of tackles resulting in winning the ball in friendlies and the ML was a huge number. It's just the way the Japs like it. If we don't; well, that's "our problem".

As for the online aspect, it would be pretty simple to sort players into categories depending on country I presume. If it lags when ppl play against japanese players, then one would avoid it I think.

You could divide it like that, but if you registered with an email address ending with ".com" then the game would ask you which region you were from. The lag cheats would say "Japan" and then play the UK people over and over. If you didn't use an email validation system then every lag cheat in the universe would be able to say they're from Japan. You just can't win in a world full of cheats.

TO me tho the whole online mode is invalid. I am so used to being able to make split-second decisions with supercancel or whatever. The times I've played Online I've lost all feeling of the game. The slightly lag causes the whole "feel" of the game to dissappear. It's like changing dampers on your car so instead of feeling every bump in the road and knowing what the car is doing, you just slowly bounce around without even knowing you are moving, and the car can at any time decide to start skidding sideways. Great analogy right?

You and me are on the same wavelength!! That's exactly how I feel, and again, one of the reasons I got into FIFA/UEFA. If you play them online on the 360, there is no lag whatsoever. I played 100 or so matches on it, and only twice can I remember ever seeing the game have a lag-spike. And again, this is what I'm talking about when I say there is a difference between Konami/Seabass' programming and EA's. As you say, you lose the intricate moves when you play PES online. Why? Because the net-code is so poorly optimised. Yes, a patch was released for PES6 - but they had to, otherwise the game could have been deemed as unplayable online, and they could have got themselves into real trouble. And it barely made a difference, anyway - you still couldn't do the intricate moves. Whereas in FIFA/UEFA - the net-code is so good that it's is literally like you are playing somebody in the same room. How cool is that?

Again, I don't know why people hail Seabass as a genius. With the PSone maybe, but not now. I hope he proves me wrong, because as we've both said, competition forces greater things, but if the next PES is any good, I'd be willing to bet it was because of a talented sub-programmer, and not the "genius".

I played TIF on PS2 once. Can't say it was good, but I remember the deliberate dive-function. Can't say that was good either.

Yeah, there wasn't much to remember about it. Except the graphics, actually - better than PES, worse than FIFA. They're still making smaller versions of it - World Tour Soccer and World Tour Soccer 2 are out on PSP now. But they're nowhere near as good as the FIFA handheld games (FIFA on the DS is great fun, like an old WE, and on the PSP it is the EXACT SAME version as on the PC/PS2 - again, EA are the coding masters, I have no idea how they can do that).

I forgot an other alternative to PES and FIFA - Sensible Soccer (a new version of a best-selling game from the mid-90s). I quite liked that, as it (again) had so many teams, and it's gameplay was so simple and different from PES and FIFA. It was just a shame that, against the CPU, it was way too easy - and in all honesty, the simplicity of the gameplay made you realise how lucky you are to live in 2007. But it was fun!

I'm from Sweden so lower leagues is not a problem (don't really like Swedish soccer (low-quality imho and "my" team is in Div. 1. But I agree that it could easily be added. I mean, just half-arse it and some option file modder can surely whip it into pretty good shape in an hour with player stats and all. Not that much effort required.

Exactly my point - they could call all of the lower-league teams "Lower Team A, Lower Team B" etc. and swap letters of their player's names around - like they did in the new Sensible Soccer (I don't know if you know this, but it was ingenious of them - they put all of the real names in for every player, but then used a code to swap the letters around - so A became E, E became I, I became O, O became U, U became A, e.g. D. Beckham became D. Bickhem). But rather than spend money on researchers and more inputters, they will keep their money in their pockets and spend it on another year of licensing Manchester United instead. Which makes me sick, but... That's business, I suppose. They probably have the largest number of supporters in the world, so more of them will buy their game, obviously.

Virtual football is getting like real football now; the big clubs have all the money and the little ones are starved!

 

[RuneEdge]

As for the "no satisfaction when scoring in FIFA" thing... It's been said before that the reason you feel like screaming and shouting when you score in PES is because you beat the cheat; you did the impossible. The CPU threw everything at you, including making every one of your tackles bounce the ball to the opposition, making the ball travel through a player's chest (seen it so many times), never getting a card for the worst tackles you've ever seen, and the goalkeeper developing a rocket in his arse to save something a mile away from him. If it does all that and you still score, then fuck, you're going to be over the moon! In FIFA/UEFA, the opposition is human. Watch the goalkeepers in PES and FIFA's training modes. In FIFA, if you knock the ball out of his reach, he can't reach it and you score. In PES, that's not the case; your shot goes straight to the goalkeeper's hands so often, it's unreal, and if you do knock it out of his reach, he will speed up and save it anyway... It's almost as if you have to have ten shots before it will let you score one (how anybody thinks this is realistic is beyond me). So, obviously, it's more satisfying to do the impossible on PES than it is to beat a realistic defence and goalkeeper on FIFA.

I wouldnt agree with that. PES still has that satisfying feeling when playing against human opponents too.
I personally think its because with PES, you deserve more credit for what you did compared to FIFA. Its probably because the PES engine is a lot more basic compared to FIFA so most of what you're doing on the screen is you rather than the engine.
Lets say for example, you had two players you could pass to but they're standing very close to each other. FIFA's superior control would allow you to execute your pass exactly how you want to cuz the engine allows you to. But with PES, you have to do all the work instead of the engine (cuz its inferior) by maybe waiting for the players to spread out or moving your own position or something.
In FIFA you could almost do whatever you want if you had the skill to do it. But in PES, you're basically given options and you have to pick the right ones, kinda like a chess game. So when I score in PES against a mate, I get this "Haha, I'm better than you!" feeling that FIFA doesnt give me.

 

[Green menace]

The quick response is due to the fact that I have no life, my friend; I have two programs open all day on this PC, Photoshop and Firefox displaying Evo-Web, and when I get stuck on one I'll open up the other and see what's new...!

I think your ideas for future tricksticks are spot on - it would be great to have a system whereby you can build on what you know, and create your own little trademark patterns of movement. It would also be nice to have all of the tricks "nailed down" to one control aspect, meaning that if you accidentally press a back button and another button, you don't end up doing a triple-reverse-flipflap or something. But to confirm the answer to your question which I misread before (apologies), the 360 version of UEFA CL has the same controller layout as before; no trickstick yet.

The ball in FIFA07/UEFA demos looks like a baloon. Reminds me the physics of a soccer game in Famicon 8 bit. Horrible.

The full games are any different? Tks

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Well, just came back from an hour or so of UEFA CL on the PC.

Gameplay is pretty good. But there is still a sense of disconnection I don't get with PES. I think it is the way most things take a small amount of time to react, for example changing direction or such.

No supercancel (atleast not R1 + R2) so in certain situations you might miss it.

But playing PES6 after, PES6 is so much more responsive and easy to play than UEFA CL.

Ballphysics in UEFA are very mixed. The PC version seems to have no physics system like Xbox360 has I believe. Which means that Freekicks sometimes seem extremely weird. The ball seems to lack force or just feels weird.

Sometimes the physics are very nice, like hitting the underside of the bar with a penalty makes the ball fly off the bar very fast and decellerate after hitting the ground very nicely, so it feels like the ball has some weight but it's still depressable and flexible.

But most of the time the game feels weird. Can't really describe it.

Also, why have a freekick system that basically only allows you to change shot power and curl? So no way to change the angle of attack to the ball to give it a higher or lower initial angle that, coupled with shotpower determined the height and speed of the ball?


Also, camera angles are not really nice and I miss a camera that you can completely change yourself (right now only preset cameras with very limited height/zoom options).









And the name discussion brings back even more memories of ISS2000/98. They also had weird changes of letters in names (Taffarel, GK in BRazil, was "Tapparel" for example, and Swedish GK "Ravelli" was "Ladelli"). Most were quite easy to figure out though.

 

[Chris Davies]

All that's on the current-gen version though. The current-gen version and the next-gen version are worlds apart - literally. What they can do with the power of an average PC (which they have to program the game for, as not everybody has a PC with the power of a next-gen console) pales in comparison to what they can do with a PS3/360.

On current-gen, I think all of the football games are awful and I literally never want to spend another second playing them. PES is too robotic, and too loaded with cheats. FIFA, as you said, feels strange - sometimes you feel free and then all of a sudden you don't.

On the next-gen machines though, PES6 is exactly the same as on current-gen, but FIFA 07/UEFA CL is totally rewritten to take advantage of the new machines' power, and the physics blow me away. It's incredible.

As you said, the current-gen version is built on an engine that uses the positioning of the players to make a path for the ball. On the 360, the ball is a seperate entity - meaning that, for example, long passes played on the ground can "bobble" up (especially in different weather conditions), making the pass shorter or longer than you'd hoped (not all of the time, of course - a realistic amount). And it also means that if your player's boot hits the wrong part of the ball then you can mishit a shot completely and watch the ball spin off your foot and off to the right. And you can drive shots into the ground and watch them bounce up and beat the keeper. And you can get awkward bounces that fool everybody, including your opponent (in PES, every player on your team and on the opponent's team knows where a high ball is going to go - usually straight onto somebody's head... NOT IN THIS GAME!). The possibilities are endless.

That's all thanks to next-gen.

The ball in FIFA07/UEFA demos looks like a baloon. Reminds me the physics of a soccer game in Famicon 8 bit. Horrible.

The full games are any different? Tks

The full versions of FIFA 07 and UEFA CL on XBOX 360 were tweaked after the demos were released - so they are different. The weight of the ball "feels" the same, though - I don't have a problem with it at all, it feels nothing like a "balloon" to me. But, everyone has their own opinion.

 

[Trance_Allstar]

All that's on the current-gen version though. The current-gen version and the next-gen version are worlds apart - literally. What they can do with the power of an average PC (which they have to program the game for, as not everybody has a PC with the power of a next-gen console) pales in comparison to what they can do with a PS3/360.

On current-gen, I think all of the football games are awful and I literally never want to spend another second playing them. PES is too robotic, and too loaded with cheats. FIFA, as you said, feels strange - sometimes you feel free and then all of a sudden you don't.

On the next-gen machines though, PES6 is exactly the same as on current-gen, but FIFA 07/UEFA CL are totally rewritten to take advantage of the new machines' power, and the physics blow me away. It's incredible.

As you said, the current-gen version is built on an engine that uses the animation of the players to make a path for the ball. On the 360, the ball is a seperate entity - meaning that, for example, long passes played on the ground can "bobble" up (especially in different weather conditions), making the pass shorter or longer than you'd hoped (not all of the time, of course - a realistic amount). And it also means that if your player's boot hits the wrong part of the ball then you can mishit a shot completely and watch the ball spin off your foot and off to the right. And you can drive shots into the ground and watch them bounce up and beat the keeper. And you can get awkward bounces that fool everybody, including your opponent (in PES, every player on your team and on the opponent's team knows where a high ball is going to go - usually straight onto somebody's head... NOT IN THIS GAME!). The possibilities are endless.

That's all thanks to next-gen.


The full versions of FIFA 07 and UEFA CL on XBOX 360 were tweaked after the demos were released - so they are different. The weight of the ball "feels" the same, though - I don't have a problem with it at all, it feels nothing like a "balloon" to me. But, everyone has their own opinion.

Yeah, I agree that current-gen is starting to become very stale. And PES6 Xbox360 is the same with some graphical stuff added (And lots of stuff removed...), which is so disrespectful in many ways.


I just really hope they are busting their balls with PES7, and I also hope that they don't spend 3 months for WE11, three months after that with PES7, etc etc. Stuff needs to happen in every release. From PES4, it seems like PES6 is now PES 4.2. The difference between PES4 and PES6 is overall game speed, animations are added along with some tricks and little stuff like quick freekicks and controll shot, and transfers are updated. In the big picture, that's it. And for three years, that's nothing.

Whatever they need to step up the tempo, I hope they do. Because if they don't they will fall behind enough to alienate everyone.


I have decided to wait with any judgment until PES7 is here. But if the current trend continues, I will give up since that would just mean they are trying to get money from the 90% of consumers who buy PES products because of the name, and ignoring the small part (most of us here) that buys PES for the game itself.

I don't buy and play PES because it's a fun football game. Hell, I'm sure "Ultra Maniak Soccer '08" with flaming shots and chainsaws would be a fun soccer game too. I buy PES because I want a game that constantly tries to mimic and capture every part of real-life soccer.

PES5 was a huge step compared to PES4, with the tempo being much lower and certain turns taking very long to complete etc. Going from PES4 directly to PES5 was a "wtf is this" type of feeling, but simply because it was essentially very good and just felt right, you stuck with it evne though you were not used to it, and eventually you were rewarded with a great game.

Going from PES5 to PES6 felt like two steps back in terms of realism. Goalkeepers are incredibly fast during freekicks, sometimes moving to the post, STOPPING still and waiting for a short moment for the ball to arrive (!!!). Ya don't see many Juninho-freekicks getting that goalie-response in real-life for sure. Also, sometimes the initial ballspeed of a broadside pass to another teammate can be twice the speed of a full-on laces shot when the game decided to pull a "Deadball" shot on you (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee93uNYbM6E), which to me alone is reason to stay away from the game altogether, since they clearly aren't ashamed of letting glaring physical impossibilities being part of the game.

This is what a proper shot looks like btw:

mms://www.mscsoftware.com/press/soccer/video/instep.wmv
mms://www.mscsoftware.com/press/soccer/video/kick2k0.wmv
mms://www.mscsoftware.com/press/soccer/video/in4500.wmv

(videos might take a sec to connect, I played them with WMP 10. VLC seems to not work).

 

[Chris Davies]

I suppose we don't know for sure if they're working hard on PES7, but as I've said before, I can't see it. I mean, this is a serious question (and I'd be interested to hear your answer); when the series moved from PSone to PS2 and the first Pro Evolution Soccer was released (or the second, seeing as PES7 will be the second PES on 360), did you think "this is incredible" or "this is pretty much the same, but I like it"? I know I thought it was just the same but with better graphics - and so, of course, I sold the old ones and kept on buying the new ones.

With PES5, I'll admit, I had a laugh when I played with mates, especially when we controlled one team and the CPU controlled the other. In PES6, the fun has just been sucked out of it totally. Every pass is so slow, they all get intercepted, and the shots just balloon over the bar every time. Factor in the cheats and I see no reason why anybody buys the game. If PES actually was the best football game available, then I would rather play no football games at all.

Also, as you said about the goalkeepers, they can save anything. It seems random when you score; you'll hit the same shot five times, to an area the goalkeeper would never be able to save from his position, and he will develop a rocket up his arse and save the ball no problem. Yet the fifth time, he will watch it go in. It's as if there's a gremlin inside the PlayStation switching a "realism" switch on and off - "oh he's had five shots now, I'd better let him score and take the rocket out of the goalkeeper's arse for a minute." Hence why I loved FIFA 07 within five minutes of playing the demo; if you put the ball in a corner, the goalkeeper doesn't stand a chance in the world.

But to restore a bit of balance here (you can tell I really hate what's happened - or rather what's NOT happened - to PES, but as much as I love FIFA/UEFA I'm not a fanboy either)... It's a shame that EA's games have their faults as well. It seems that Konami refuse to move on as they know they have developed a good game (eight years ago), whereas EA, in actually trying to move the genre forward, have got a few of the basics wrong. They've nailed the passing, which is fantastic, but the next-most important aspect I think, dribbling, is too "clunky" to let you dribble around players. Plus, the heading system is 50/50 (you'll play one match and think "that is so realistic it's scary", and then in the next match you'll think "why did my player just jump and barely move his head").

What I love, though, are the little things - the kinds of things you used to notice in PES that are old now. For example (taken from the Other Games Discussion > UEFA CL thread):

I got a red card for a sliding tackle where, admittedly, I clattered the opponent before I touched the ball, but I thought "that's ridiculous, you'd get a warning first". Then, on the replay, I noticed that as my player slide-tackled with one foot and knocked the guy down, his other leg swung around and kicked the guy quite hard in the leg as he was lying on the floor.

This is exactly as a sports game should be; no automatic anything, and the freedom of the physics and animations to cause more incidents than you'd imagine.

There's a video of the passing in UEFA HERE. If that doesn't make you think that next-gen is wonderful, then I don't know what will... Seriously, how bad does that video (made entirely of in-game content) make PES look?

 

[Trance_Allstar]

I suppose we don't know for sure if they're working hard on PES7, but as I've said before, I can't see it. I mean, this is a serious question (and I'd be interested to hear your answer); when the series moved from PSone to PS2 and the first Pro Evolution Soccer was released (or the second, seeing as PES7 will be the second PES on 360), did you think "this is incredible" or "this is pretty much the same, but I like it"? I know I thought it was just the same but with better graphics - and so, of course, I sold the old ones and kept on buying the new ones.

With PES5, I'll admit, I had a laugh when I played with mates, especially when we controlled one team and the CPU controlled the other. In PES6, the fun has just been sucked out of it totally. Every pass is so slow, they all get intercepted, and the shots just balloon over the bar every time. Factor in the cheats and I see no reason why anybody buys the game. If PES actually was the best football game available, then I would rather play no football games at all.

Also, as you said about the goalkeepers, they can save anything. It seems random when you score; you'll hit the same shot five times, to an area the goalkeeper would never be able to save from his position, and he will develop a rocket up his arse and save the ball no problem. Yet the fifth time, he will watch it go in. It's as if there's a gremlin inside the PlayStation switching a "realism" switch on and off - "oh he's had five shots now, I'd better let him score and take the rocket out of the goalkeeper's arse for a minute." Hence why I loved FIFA 07 within five minutes of playing the demo; if you put the ball in a corner, the goalkeeper doesn't stand a chance in the world.

But to restore a bit of balance here (you can tell I really hate what's happened - or rather what's NOT happened - to PES, but as much as I love FIFA/UEFA I'm not a fanboy either)... It's a shame that EA's games have their faults as well. It seems that Konami refuse to move on as they know they have developed a good game (eight years ago), whereas EA, in actually trying to move the genre forward, have got a few of the basics wrong. They've nailed the passing, which is fantastic, but the next-most important aspect I think, dribbling, is too "clunky" to let you dribble around players. Plus, the heading system is 50/50 (you'll play one match and think "that is so realistic it's scary", and then in the next match you'll think "why did my player just jump and barely move his head").

What I love, though, are the little things - the kinds of things you used to notice in PES that are old now. For example (taken from the Other Games Discussion > UEFA CL thread):

I got a red card for a sliding tackle where, admittedly, I clattered the opponent before I touched the ball, but I thought "that's ridiculous, you'd get a warning first". Then, on the replay, I noticed that as my player slide-tackled with one foot and knocked the guy down, his other leg swung around and kicked the guy quite hard in the leg as he was lying on the floor.

This is exactly as a sports game should be; no automatic anything, and the freedom of the physics and animations to cause more incidents than you'd imagine.

There's a video of the passing in UEFA HERE. If that doesn't make you think that next-gen is wonderful, then I don't know what will... Seriously, how bad does that video (made entirely of in-game content) make PES look?

Ohh my god. What really made that video great was one specific thing: at 0:57 where the Arsenal nr 4 get's the ball. He receives the ball with the left leg, touches it on with the left again and then does a wonderful little skip before shifting the ball with his right foot to the right followed by the pass with the right.

That little skip where he jumpes forward with his left support leg made my week man. So cool-looking it's sick. All the little minute movements of the foot, leg etc are so real it's unbelievable. I could look at that all day...



On the other hand, at 1:30 a blue Chelsea player takes a shot and the movement of his feet when he prepares for the shot animation seems very jerky. It looks like the animation is sped up in order to catch up to the shotanimation, so it looks like his feet move so that he can take the shot sooner than he could in normal life. You can see a similar thing also at 0:12 when the Milan player turns and then shoots. Before the shot he reaches out and streches his body quite alot in order to reach the ball with his right foot, but just after he sort of bounces up and is ready to take the shot, when in real-life he would have had to take an extra moment after that move to bring his body up over the right leg (support leg) and get balanced again. if you push stop and play to inch your way through the movement you can see that just before he shoots he suddenly pulls his front leg back towards him which in real-life would make his body drop to the ground alot.

This makes his body seem suspended by a harness or similar, or like he doesn't need his legs to support him.


But these are small things obviously.


And I don't want PES no longer after that one...



EDIT: Also, a minor thing. He talks about in the game they made the players slower to make passing more efficient and make the whole game faster since you will rely more on quick passing.

I don't like that reasoning. I think they should time real players running. For example, get Ronaldinho in to the mocap studio and record his acceleration and top speed phases over maybe 40 metres. Then get one of the fastest players in the world in (like Martins or smtn, I dunno) and time him aswell. Then you use those values to transfer them so that the ingame players run as quick as they would in real-life. Is Ronaldinho at top-speed would run the lenght of a goal in 1.2 seconds, then ROnaldinho in UEFA would run it basically the same time. I understand why they would slow them down in the game, but that is completely against the way it should be done. Players are as quick as they are. And time pass speeds aswell (ball speeds etc) for different strenghts of passes. Then implement them aswell. if you do all the things right, then the proportions (player speed vs. passing speed) would be realistic and thus behave realisticly).

I think you understand how I think.

 

[Chris Davies]

Again (and I'll be sounding like a sheep here), I completely agree. Of course, sports games should be developed to be as close to real life as possible, regardless of the issues (hence why I'm in favour of EA making a totally new engine and getting a few basics wrong as opposed to Konami sticking with the same game every year with new licenses and a new kind of flipflap).

The speed in UEFA does seem pretty realistic though; in FIFA 07 it was a bit too fast, and so UEFA has a pretty good balance. Put it like this, if you control a 32-year-old target man then you won't be able to make blistering runs, but if you get the ball to Cristiano Ronaldo then vroooooom! But of course, it's not as simple as "he's old and so he's slow, he's young and so he's fast". The game is quite complex, as you can see from the passing video I've linked to - and I love it!!

And yeah, the movement of the striker's leg you pointed out is a bit wrong physics-wise, but A) there must be 10x the physics in FIFA/UEFA as there is in PES so it's easy to be more forgiving - especially when everything else in that video is so spot-on, and B) their aim for FIFA/UEFA has been to give the ball it's own seperate realistic physics - when FIFA 08 comes along, you might find that they have worked on refining the player physics (which would help dribbling) and leave the ball alone, seeing as I'm not sure there is much that they could add to the ball (it bounces, it spins, it rebounds off the post, I think they're pretty much finished)!

 

[TikTikTikTikTik]

Get a room guys :lol:

Agree with everything so far actually in principle, havent played uefa yet so cant comment on that vs pes. But other then that the development mentioned thats needed (the run vs distance, etc) i agree with.

Not sure whether ill be getting this, after awhile i stopped playing fifa360, just didnt get the "feeling" when winning games. And the glitches i found annoying (collision / goalies / heading / the day night setting never changing unless you went and played a friendly to change it and the analog control ( i guess im just to old skool with that, even though the benefits are clear to see in the passing)). Aswell as the nets being rubbish (when i started pes6 it did make a difference to the overal feel of scoring) and the superhuman goalies, i would miss most of my 1-1's and the fact that the throughball was to easy to use. Those different elements made me go and play fear for awhile. Then i started playing pes6 for awhile and did get that "feeling" in the beginning, but once i had the gameplay down that went and got very boring. Was playing ML on 6* with a youth squad (all the players were under 24 with most around the 20 mark) but even with that "challenge" i was easily winning all the matches because the gameplay is pretty much the same as pes3/4 so we all know how to play it properly. And when i wasnt winning it was usually down to players becoming crap / slow / not defending for a match for no reason (players always had decent form and high fitness due to squad rotation). You could just tell when teams were likely to score through the movement / lack of of your players. Also the game had some poor glitches (shooting the ball it would fly up and hit my own knee (the player that was shooting) and fly somewhere irrelevent). Offcourse the lack of anything in the game (editing/teams/etc) also quickly made it lose its appeal.

So now im torn whether to give uefa a try (even though i have the feeling that the improvements wont be enough over fifa) or that i just wait till october to see what both companies have come up with. Im hoping pes7 will actually be nextgen but its not likely (with pes3 being the first different engine on ps2 = they went from renderware to their own engine).

 

[mjp]

I must say that I'm enjoying the ongoing dialogue here - I'm certainly hearing a lot of familiar things when reading about the bad aspects of PES6 and I am tempted to trade in Rainbox 6 and Ghost Recon to get UEFA tomorrow.

This would be the first time I've bought an EA game since first getting a PS2 all those years ago......!

However, I keep asking myself "why do I still want to play Pro Evo every single day that I can if it's that flawed?" and I don't know the answer.

It sounds like JB especially, who I once shared a post-code with, has totally moved from the PES series and I can understand why and it's a shame I can't get that video working for UEFA then I could probably more easily appreciate where the supporters of the latest EA game were coming from.

I will probably get it just to see but I honestly think it's going to have to make a hell of an impression on me to make me not play PES6 anymore and I'm not convinced it can be so much better.

EDIT - Just "you-tubed" some vids and it looks great - will DEFO get this tomorrow now!

 

[Chris Davies]

Not sure whether ill be getting this, after awhile i stopped playing fifa360, just didnt get the "feeling" when winning games. And the glitches i found annoying (collision / goalies / heading / the day night setting never changing unless you went and played a friendly to change it and the analog control ( i guess im just to old skool with that, even though the benefits are clear to see in the passing)).

All of the glitches you mention appear to be fixed - but if you didn't get the "feeling" with FIFA 07, I doubt you would with UEFA. Although saying that I was celebrating a goal I scored on the UEFA demo a few nights ago like a loony. I don't know if you saw the Tottenham v Chelsea FA Cup replay, and Shevchenko's goal, but I scored a very similar goal with Henry. I was absolutely over the moon, to put it lightly. But it's different for everybody, isn't it?

However, I keep asking myself "why do I still want to play Pro Evo every single day that I can if it's that flawed?" and I don't know the answer.

That's exactly how I feel at the moment. The thing is, I'm honestly not trying to be like a broken record, and you like what you like. If you have fun with PES then that's great, it's up-to-date database-wise and so if you have a laugh then brilliant. But I've found myself dreading it when a particular mate comes down who refuses to look at, or be in the same room as, anything to do with FIFA. I'll give him a game (he likes us both to play the CPU) to keep him happy, but as soon as I see the pitch, I just feel depressed because I know what's coming. How did the CPU get that? Why did my player let the ball go past him then? Why is he kicking the ball so weakly that all my passes can be intercepted? Why did that shot just go a mile over the bar, when I LITERALLY TAPPED THE BUTTON LIKE IT WAS ON FIRE? By the end of the first half I'm thinking up my excuses to switch the PS2 off.

I don't see why I should play something that makes me depressed, regardless of how many people think it's a realistic simulation of modern football. And, of course, the more it's forced upon me the more I hate it to death.

A lot of members like UEFA CL, but one person who liked the demo has decided he doesn't like the full game because he feels that the game is so free that the AI can't cope with it yet, and thus it's too easy. To be honest, I would rather it be free with the odd dodgy goal than be rigid with the AI saving shots a real human would never, ever save.

As far as I'm concerned, Konami have a path that they are going to follow, to keep their Japanese fanbase happy (the majority think nothing of the cheating and don't care about the number of teams as long as Man United are there with their proper kit), in the same way that EA are trying to shake off the "arcade" tag and develop a "simulation". So I really doubt that any future PES will appeal to me, and after something close to ten years buying PES & WE, that's such a shame. But they've pushed their luck too far with me.

 

[Trance_Allstar]

Again (and I'll be sounding like a sheep here), I completely agree. Of course, sports games should be developed to be as close to real life as possible, regardless of the issues (hence why I'm in favour of EA making a totally new engine and getting a few basics wrong as opposed to Konami sticking with the same game every year with new licenses and a new kind of flipflap).

The speed in UEFA does seem pretty realistic though; in FIFA 07 it was a bit too fast, and so UEFA has a pretty good balance. Put it like this, if you control a 32-year-old target man then you won't be able to make blistering runs, but if you get the ball to Cristiano Ronaldo then vroooooom! But of course, it's not as simple as "he's old and so he's slow, he's young and so he's fast". The game is quite complex, as you can see from the passing video I've linked to - and I love it!!

And yeah, the movement of the striker's leg you pointed out is a bit wrong physics-wise, but A) there must be 10x the physics in FIFA/UEFA as there is in PES so it's easy to be more forgiving - especially when everything else in that video is so spot-on, and B) their aim for FIFA/UEFA has been to give the ball it's own seperate realistic physics - when FIFA 08 comes along, you might find that they have worked on refining the player physics (which would help dribbling) and leave the ball alone, seeing as I'm not sure there is much that they could add to the ball (it bounces, it spins, it rebounds off the post, I think they're pretty much finished)!

You make a good point. I haven't played earlier FIFA games so I wouldn't know if itwas a bit too fast before and they now have it at a good speed level.

And the physics in PES are basically nonexistant. For example, one of the "new" things added is the way the ball bounces. Since passing has been reworked, you now have the extremely slow passes that you get if the player you are passing to is fairly close. Those slow passes also hug the ground all the time. Basically, I guess KONAMI decided that the close passing system should be aimed at getting the ball to be as easy to receive as possible, in other words the ball cannot be bouncing around from a 10 meter pass (even though in real-life the ball would surely be airborne for a while).

But what you can actually tell, is that when your pass travels to your destination hugging the ground, you can see that the ball is sort of skipping up and down a bit (looks like it's a bit nervous is you understand) I guess to simulate little indentations in the ground. Well, I looked at the ball movement in replay. And the ball buncing is completely weird. Most of the time the ball will jump up from the ground a bit, then start dropping, and then suddenly move up again without touching the ground. And sometimes the ball bounces up from the ground a small amount, then suddenly freezes in height and moves maybe 30cm with a constant height. In the video it looks like the ball gets stuck at a certain height. It's painful to watch if you like accurate physics. In short, the ball doesn't behave like a ball should. At all.

Get a room guys :lol:

Agree with everything so far actually in principle, havent played uefa yet so cant comment on that vs pes. But other then that the development mentioned thats needed (the run vs distance, etc) i agree with.

Not sure whether ill be getting this, after awhile i stopped playing fifa360, just didnt get the "feeling" when winning games. And the glitches i found annoying (collision / goalies / heading / the day night setting never changing unless you went and played a friendly to change it and the analog control ( i guess im just to old skool with that, even though the benefits are clear to see in the passing)). Aswell as the nets being rubbish (when i started pes6 it did make a difference to the overal feel of scoring) and the superhuman goalies, i would miss most of my 1-1's and the fact that the throughball was to easy to use. Those different elements made me go and play fear for awhile. Then i started playing pes6 for awhile and did get that "feeling" in the beginning, but once i had the gameplay down that went and got very boring. Was playing ML on 6* with a youth squad (all the players were under 24 with most around the 20 mark) but even with that "challenge" i was easily winning all the matches because the gameplay is pretty much the same as pes3/4 so we all know how to play it properly. And when i wasnt winning it was usually down to players becoming crap / slow / not defending for a match for no reason (players always had decent form and high fitness due to squad rotation). You could just tell when teams were likely to score through the movement / lack of of your players. Also the game had some poor glitches (shooting the ball it would fly up and hit my own knee (the player that was shooting) and fly somewhere irrelevent). Offcourse the lack of anything in the game (editing/teams/etc) also quickly made it lose its appeal.

So now im torn whether to give uefa a try (even though i have the feeling that the improvements wont be enough over fifa) or that i just wait till october to see what both companies have come up with. Im hoping pes7 will actually be nextgen but its not likely (with pes3 being the first different engine on ps2 = they went from renderware to their own engine).

If the room has an X360 in it then fine by me.

I know the feeling. When you play an ML match and you are up 1-0, and then suddenly your players crap out completely. Slower, unresponsive, and unable to stop anyone. You can tell when the opposition are approaching the box "they are going to score". It is just so obvious that something external and invisible has taken control of everything and is changing player stats and such to favor the other team. It's so obvious it's not evne funny. A subtle form of it would be very welcome (giving the opposition a very little boost in stats directly after a goal would be a cool thing since it would be like in real life. But making MY players move slower after scoring a goal just to make it easier on the other team is WRONG. My team isn't handicapped all of a sudden, it's the other team that is alot more focused since they now havr to score a goal. KONAMI think all wrong.

I must say that I'm enjoying the ongoing dialogue here - I'm certainly hearing a lot of familiar things when reading about the bad aspects of PES6 and I am tempted to trade in Rainbox 6 and Ghost Recon to get UEFA tomorrow.

This would be the first time I've bought an EA game since first getting a PS2 all those years ago......!

However, I keep asking myself "why do I still want to play Pro Evo every single day that I can if it's that flawed?" and I don't know the answer.

It sounds like JB especially, who I once shared a post-code with, has totally moved from the PES series and I can understand why and it's a shame I can't get that video working for UEFA then I could probably more easily appreciate where the supporters of the latest EA game where coming from.

I will probably get it just to see but I honestly think it's going to have to make a hell of an impression on me to make me not play PES6 anymore and I'm not convinced it can be so much better.

If you like PES6, play it for gods' sake. If you like it, then give KONAMI the money and don't think twice. I'm okay with people liking the game playing it. I have a problem with people getting fooled by the name of PES only to find they shelled out money for the same game with a few extras. But if you know what you get and like it, then that's no problem.

Also, the video will probably need Windows Media Player to work properly. VLC makes audio stutter for me and most .wmv files work better with WMP. You can try saving it to HDD if the file won't buffer properly. I guess you know that but...

But try and watch the video. It will really make you understand what it is about UEFA that is so tempting and remarkable.


The way I see it we are at a bit of a point where the games we play are changing direction. It might be 2 years till we really see the end results of what the game makers want us to play. PES is moving to next-gen and FIFA has alot of new tech that might need polishing and changing.

 

[Chris Davies]

I won't reply again because I really will get hate-mail for sounding like a broken record... But I will quote something I've just written in the Other Games Discussion > UEFA CL thread.

I grabbed five minutes on a UEFA CL pod today before a gang of kids started queueing up behind me for a go. Honestly, it takes me back to my first Winning Eleven, which I was obsessed with; except the things that impressed me about UEFA far surpass the things that stood out for me with WE.

For example, in the match (Liverpool v Arsenal - I was Liverpool of course), I was trying to get down the wings for the first 10-20 minutes of the half. I noticed that after I'd managed to get one or two crosses in, Arsenal started man-marking my wingers, and that was it. My wingers were out of the game and I had to think of other ways to get through.

I've already mentioned how one of my players reacted like a human and came running out of his position and up the wing like a MADMAN to give me someone to pass to when I was backed into a corner. The tactical AI is really, really impressive.

It seriously feels as if you are playing against real humans, sometimes. They see what you're doing and they adapt - apart from the lesser teams who (judging from a match I watched whilst pretending to browse around the store) are too scared and just keep defending like their lives depended on it.

I just wish it was tomorrow already so I could finally take the game home.

 

[Trance_Allstar]

I like what I am hearing.

On the PC version (which is a separate entity from X360 as discussed) there is seemingly no way to edit formation, move players positions slightly or change roles as in PES. This I would like to do in the match setup window as in PES. In UEFA PC all you can do is shift formation between pre-selected ones (4-4-2, 4-2-3-1 etc etc) and not much else.

I hope they include editing options like PES for formations etc. Also I don't think there is any way to watch player stats in the pre-game setup aswell, which makes the game feel very shallow and lacking in features. You select a formation, and then not much else.

HOpe they greatly expand the way you can build formations, select roles and also compare players based on alot of parameters.

 

[Blackjim]

To repeat what I said in the UEFA thread...

I personally think the PES engine is made to look totally outdated by the FIFA engine (I tried playing PES again the other day and the stiffness of play, the way that half of my passes go to the wrong player and the fact that the game is the same game it was six years ago at it's core). I personally won't be playing PES again in the near future. Whatever you tell me about the game being realistic, I totally disagree and think that FIFA/UEFA, with it's free passing system, is the most realistic football game to date. I just don't have fun with PES any more; as soon as I play it, I want to hurl the pad through the screen and snap the disc. The players pass at 1mph allowing the ball to be intercepted constantly, two or three players seem to run to the same place all the time leaving you wide open... The CPU decides whether you win or lose, basically. The game was innovative and fresh six years ago. Now I just laugh at it. Seabass was great with a PSone but give him more power and he doesn't have a clue.

Couldn't agree more m8... :applause:

I also enjoy UCL a lot and it's the first "FIFA" that I have played more than a day the last 5-6 years :lol:

The graphics and the stadiums in UCL for x360 are just stunning. And the gameplay is IMO improved from fifa07. I hope fifa08 will only get better. thumbs up from me for sure...

 

[mjp]

Well after taking in everything this thread and the one in "Other Games" has got to give, I found myself caught up in the bug and traded some games in and bought this earlier today.

I'll let you know my thoughts next week - I'm giving myself the whole weekend to get used to the different feel and I've promised myself not to go back to PES6 after one game....

JB's mini-review today sounds really encouraging - roll on, erm, about 11pm tonight which is the first time will get to play this!

 

[Chris Davies]

I hope you enjoy it mate - I'll feel fucking awful if you don't! :lol:

 

[mjp]

I hope you enjoy it mate - I'll feel fucking awful if you don't! :lol:

Lol - cheers mate. Anyway, who's the fool? The fool? Or the fool who follows the fool?

So I can't really blame you can I?!

 

[Trance_Allstar]

You cannot blame Jack Bauer. That man has sacrificed himself so many times it's ridiculous.

 

[mjp]

You cannot blame Jack Bauer. That man has sacrificed himself so many times it's ridiculous.

For the record, and I'm sure Jack will be pleased to hear this - there's no need to talk about blaming him for anything - I'm loving the game so much. I've gone into a bit more detail on the other thread but truly, PES6 is no longer deserving of it's previous location and has now been moved to the "might trade this in" section of my small and humble games collection.

 

[Chris Davies]

Do you know what - seriously, UEFA has inspired me to start working on a sports games review site, purely to try and spread the word about games that deserve more than a glance in a shop window.

I'm so glad you're enjoying it mjp - I'm still enjoying it after playing it for some ludicrous amount of hours per day.

 

[El Diego]

I'm loving this game too and I didn't like FIFA07.

PES is turd in comparison.

 

[Trance_Allstar]

For the record, and I'm sure Jack will be pleased to hear this - there's no need to talk about blaming him for anything - I'm loving the game so much. I've gone into a bit more detail on the other thread but truly, PES6 is no longer deserving of it's previous location and has now been moved to the "might trade this in" section of my small and humble games collection.

I hope that you also understand I was hinting at the TV series.

 

[kellex]

Well..Im sold. I almost liked fifa 07 on the ps2, didn`t like fifa 07 on 360, hated pes 6 on 360, thought pes 6 on ps2 was okay.. So I am getting UEFA today, and to see if it can give me something new! Cause as mention here, pes games are so alike! I feel like I have been playing the same game for "5" years now. When I got pes 6 for the 360 I was really prepared to get my gaming experience to a new level, but it was not to happen. I must say that I am huge pes fan and I have loved the games for many years now, but i feel its time to get something more out of playing the the best sport in the world. Today I am still paching and playing pes 6 on the ps2, but last night when playing in the ml with my wife, I was hit with something depressive.. We had just beaten chelsea 2-1 with arsenal in stamford bridge and would surely win the title, but i didn`t get exited at all..I did not get the good feeling of winning anymore and I realised that the game had become boring. Maybe that is one of the reasons so many pes fans got really pissed off at konami when they released pes 6 for the 360? Thay might have thought that the graphic was what was missing in pes, and when they got a pes game with "better" graphic and a game that was lacking in all departments! It came verry obvious that the game had become some what boring. I have been playing football games now for 17 years now and with the ps2/x-box and gamecube giving us good football games over the years, and the quality of the games moving with the times, Jack Bauer says something that is the core of progress! EA are trying to evolve the game of football. And they have not had big success
as of today in my opinion. But they are trying, and the are now obviously succeding more and more with every game. I will get UEFA today just because of that! We need progress and the fight between EA and Konami, it seems to me that EA are going in the right direction. I will post my opinion on the UEFA game later this week, all I am hoping for when I am playing UEFA for the first time, is not a revolutionary game of football, but a game that is fun to play, and is heading in the right direction!


Ps: In UEFA, can we transfer players and edit stats,faces and teams etc? And is it possible to play a season with pemiere league or is it just about champions league? Thanx.