Glavisted
Premiership
- 20 July 2005
I forgot the Mali's player, he could be 4th for me, behind Drogba; probably he will increase his performance next season.ThomasGOAL said:
PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
No way is Drogba a better player than him Glav 
. No way my friend!
M. Diarra is best DMF in world in my opinion! You'd agree if you watched him week in week out in Ligue 1 + CL I'm sure! He has all the skills you want from a typical world-class DMF like Mak plus more. Drogba wouldn't be in my top 5 African player even but a decent player nonetheless but like I said for me after top 3 it's hard to rank them cuz there's so many close ones.
Thankfully although people under-rated him a year or two ago and put so much hype around Essien and Juninho (which they deserved) they didn't think HE is actually most important part of team. And I definitely would rather have Juninho suspended for a game than M. Diarra for example. Same if Essien was still in team. But now general public (Casual fan) has been made more aware of him and noticed him even more since departure of Essien even and now any knowledgable Ligue 1 fan plus Lyon chairman knows his true worth and value and he's considered one of the best players and most expensive in the league! (and rightly so, whatever team wants him will have to pay a hefty hefty amount of
$$$ to get him.) Because now more or less everbody surrounding Ligue 1 knows his true value AND he just recently signed a new 4 year-contract! So that means either he'll stay in Lyon for next season and they'll try for CL again or it'll take something like $30 - 50M I'm guessing to get the world's best DMF arguably by many and in my opinion. (Of course I watch all other great DMF's weekly too like Makelele who I'm huge fan of or Emerson or anybody who people would want to put ahead of him but he's got things they don't have like being great in air, taller/more physical and better vision/passing plus all the right tools that the other good DMF's do have).
Well sounds lke I'm a big fan of his doesn't it? I'm not I can assure you of that! In fact I don't really like him as a person. But I do rate him as a player! and these are just my observations since watching him 3 years ago or so religiously and realizing just how good this guy is! :shock:
While in comparison, Drogba although a good player and one I like since OM days where he had great season, he's not even among the top 10 elite finishers or strikers of the world. Not even in top 20 for me but M. Diarra is among the very best if not the best DMF!
p.s. I don't know how he can "Increase his performances" anymore to be honest! He's already the top top guy to have for your DMF slot! Unless you mean he moves to new club which like I said will take $hitload of money and showcases this same talent there but JMA probably wouldn't sell him.
. No way my friend!M. Diarra is best DMF in world in my opinion! You'd agree if you watched him week in week out in Ligue 1 + CL I'm sure! He has all the skills you want from a typical world-class DMF like Mak plus more. Drogba wouldn't be in my top 5 African player even but a decent player nonetheless but like I said for me after top 3 it's hard to rank them cuz there's so many close ones.
Thankfully although people under-rated him a year or two ago and put so much hype around Essien and Juninho (which they deserved) they didn't think HE is actually most important part of team. And I definitely would rather have Juninho suspended for a game than M. Diarra for example. Same if Essien was still in team. But now general public (Casual fan) has been made more aware of him and noticed him even more since departure of Essien even and now any knowledgable Ligue 1 fan plus Lyon chairman knows his true worth and value and he's considered one of the best players and most expensive in the league! (and rightly so, whatever team wants him will have to pay a hefty hefty amount of
$$$ to get him.) Because now more or less everbody surrounding Ligue 1 knows his true value AND he just recently signed a new 4 year-contract! So that means either he'll stay in Lyon for next season and they'll try for CL again or it'll take something like $30 - 50M I'm guessing to get the world's best DMF arguably by many and in my opinion. (Of course I watch all other great DMF's weekly too like Makelele who I'm huge fan of or Emerson or anybody who people would want to put ahead of him but he's got things they don't have like being great in air, taller/more physical and better vision/passing plus all the right tools that the other good DMF's do have).
Well sounds lke I'm a big fan of his doesn't it? I'm not I can assure you of that! In fact I don't really like him as a person. But I do rate him as a player! and these are just my observations since watching him 3 years ago or so religiously and realizing just how good this guy is! :shock:
While in comparison, Drogba although a good player and one I like since OM days where he had great season, he's not even among the top 10 elite finishers or strikers of the world. Not even in top 20 for me but M. Diarra is among the very best if not the best DMF!
p.s. I don't know how he can "Increase his performances" anymore to be honest! He's already the top top guy to have for your DMF slot! Unless you mean he moves to new club which like I said will take $hitload of money and showcases this same talent there but JMA probably wouldn't sell him.
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PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
:lol:- Thread starter
- #37
M
Massacre_1907
Guest
J J Okocha = legend
how can you even compare drogba and Diarra?one play as AF and one dm:shock: but to say drogba is not even the 20 best finishers in the world is totally rubbish!!!if you could tell me 20 finishers who are ahead him so i will believe you
in France since he was at Guimgamp he was used to scored 17/18 goals a season
02/03 34played 17 goals
03/04 35Played 18 goals plus 11 in Europeen Cup
in France since he was at Guimgamp he was used to scored 17/18 goals a season
02/03 34played 17 goals
03/04 35Played 18 goals plus 11 in Europeen Cup
PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
I already know about his record dude. Yes he had awesome last season in OM and before that with Guingamp where Florent Malouda was also there and some other good players if you remember. So it's not like he's anything new to me
And yeah I can easily name at least 20 people with better finishing that doesn't mean they are better strikers or players than him though since finishing is just one of the 100 attributes required even for a forward. Nor does this mean he's not a good player because he is.
Plus let's face it although attackers job is more just to score a player like Drogba does way more than just score. He uses his physical attributes to hold off ball or opponents and create space and chances for his team-mates and determination like last week he showed where he put 3 tackles to win ball and eventually Chelsea got goal out of that while another lazy forward would've just stood! :applause:
So no as far as finishing goes, its not all that impressive despite so many goals in OM, he's very good at it but there's many better finishes playing even in much lesser teams or even leagues yet I'd still take Drogba over many of them because they may only be better than him in shooting but he is overall gonna be the more dangerous one and create more problems for oppositions thanks to his other quailties as well.
So no point getting defensive over him ALAIN, I like Drogba just as much as you do. He was one of my fav when in France and in fact I didn't want him to go and I still like him much more than "M. Diarra" but my likeliness for players won't make me biased or get in my way and I can clearly see M. Diarra is something veryyyyy special!
Now how can I compare the two? It's simple.. it's not like I'm comparing two in same position or with same role so yeah in that sense it can be a bit weird and unorthodox and I understand that.
But let me ask you this, can we not say JT is a more important player for a team and therefore better player (Remember better just means he's better at doing task he's suppoesd to do better than other guy does at task he's supposed to do) than someone who is good but not best in world like Gudjohnssen as a random example? or Adebayor even if not in same position? Can we not say Buffon is better player than Miccoli? Yes we can even though they're totally different and totally different positions!
Because JT is if not THE BEST defender in world, is one of the best while Gudjohnssen is a good player and one I have always liked so much but he's not anything special, there is 1000 other good players like him at roughly same level.
So since one is at the TOP of the chain for his own position and one isn't, thats how I can say he's a more valuable and better player (By defenition of better above not who has more technique better or anything like that).
Since he is among the world's best DMF (his own position) and Drogba for me isn't among the very high calibre world-class strikers right now (Top 10 or so), then he's more valuable and better player same way Essien is better than Drogba as well and why he's also in my top 3 and not Drogba.
Hopefully that clears up things more now if you read it fully and with open mind on why I said what I said and how it does make senes.
take care
So it's not like he's anything new to meAnd yeah I can easily name at least 20 people with better finishing that doesn't mean they are better strikers or players than him though since finishing is just one of the 100 attributes required even for a forward. Nor does this mean he's not a good player because he is.
Plus let's face it although attackers job is more just to score a player like Drogba does way more than just score. He uses his physical attributes to hold off ball or opponents and create space and chances for his team-mates and determination like last week he showed where he put 3 tackles to win ball and eventually Chelsea got goal out of that while another lazy forward would've just stood! :applause:
So no as far as finishing goes, its not all that impressive despite so many goals in OM, he's very good at it but there's many better finishes playing even in much lesser teams or even leagues yet I'd still take Drogba over many of them because they may only be better than him in shooting but he is overall gonna be the more dangerous one and create more problems for oppositions thanks to his other quailties as well.
So no point getting defensive over him ALAIN
, I like Drogba just as much as you do. He was one of my fav when in France and in fact I didn't want him to go and I still like him much more than "M. Diarra" but my likeliness for players won't make me biased or get in my way and I can clearly see M. Diarra is something veryyyyy special!Now how can I compare the two? It's simple.. it's not like I'm comparing two in same position or with same role so yeah in that sense it can be a bit weird and unorthodox and I understand that.
But let me ask you this, can we not say JT is a more important player for a team and therefore better player (Remember better just means he's better at doing task he's suppoesd to do better than other guy does at task he's supposed to do) than someone who is good but not best in world like Gudjohnssen as a random example? or Adebayor even if not in same position? Can we not say Buffon is better player than Miccoli? Yes we can even though they're totally different and totally different positions!
Because JT is if not THE BEST defender in world, is one of the best while Gudjohnssen is a good player and one I have always liked so much but he's not anything special, there is 1000 other good players like him at roughly same level.
So since one is at the TOP of the chain for his own position and one isn't, thats how I can say he's a more valuable and better player (By defenition of better above not who has more technique better or anything like that).
Since he is among the world's best DMF (his own position) and Drogba for me isn't among the very high calibre world-class strikers right now (Top 10 or so), then he's more valuable and better player same way Essien is better than Drogba as well and why he's also in my top 3 and not Drogba.
Hopefully that clears up things more now if you read it fully and with open mind on why I said what I said and how it does make senes.
take care
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Glavisted
Premiership
- 20 July 2005
I has had to use freetranslation.com for read it PLF :lol: , I'm north american but I'm living in Peru since 1996 and I forgot most part of english :mrgreen: , well...PLF said:No way is Drogba a better player than him Glav
M. Diarra is best DMF in world in my opinion! You'd agree if you watched him week in week out in Ligue 1 + CL I'm sure! He has all the skills you want from a typical world-class DMF like Mak plus more. Drogba wouldn't be in my top 5 African player even but a decent player nonetheless but like I said for me after top 3 it's hard to rank them cuz there's so many close ones.
Thankfully although people under-rated him a year or two ago and put so much hype around Essien and Juninho (which they deserved) they didn't think HE is actually most important part of team. And I definitely would rather have Juninho suspended for a game than M. Diarra for example. Same if Essien was still in team. But now general public (Casual fan) has been made more aware of him and noticed him even more since departure of Essien even and now any knowledgable Ligue 1 fan plus Lyon chairman knows his true worth and value and he's considered one of the best players and most expensive in the league! (and rightly so, whatever team wants him will have to pay a hefty hefty amount of
$$$ to get him.) Because now more or less everbody surrounding Ligue 1 knows his true value AND he just recently signed a new 4 year-contract! So that means either he'll stay in Lyon for next season and they'll try for CL again or it'll take something like $30 - 50M I'm guessing to get the world's best DMF arguably by many and in my opinion. (Of course I watch all other great DMF's weekly too like Makelele who I'm huge fan of or Emerson or anybody who people would want to put ahead of him but he's got things they don't have like being great in air, taller/more physical and better vision/passing plus all the right tools that the other good DMF's do have).
Well sounds lke I'm a big fan of his doesn't it? I'm not I can assure you of that! In fact I don't really like him as a person. But I do rate him as a player! and these are just my observations since watching him 3 years ago or so religiously and realizing just how good this guy is! :shock:
While in comparison, Drogba although a good player and one I like since OM days where he had great season, he's not even among the top 10 elite finishers or strikers of the world. Not even in top 20 for me but M. Diarra is among the very best if not the best DMF!
p.s. I don't know how he can "Increase his performances" anymore to be honest! He's already the top top guy to have for your DMF slot! Unless you mean he moves to new club which like I said will take $hitload of money and showcases this same talent there but JMA probably wouldn't sell him.
I don't doubt that Mahamadou Diarra is one of the better players in the world in his position now, but, personally, I wouldn't say "the best" yet because I like very much others as Emerson, Mickaël Essien, Patrick Vieira or Javier Mascherano (with other characteristics); also Sulley Muntari but he didn't finish to exploit in Udinese, or Claude Makelele; well, I think he has competence for this title.
Definitely I haven't could watch all the matches of Lyon this season, maybe 8 or 9 of the ligue and in Champions League, and in the most of them Diarra had at least a good performance, I like him very much, but I think he's one of the "popular" players that are catalogued as new figures, relatively young (24), that awakes some fever of news in the supporters and probably this could on measuring a little his condition; I think he have today a similar level as Mickaël Essien when left France.
I'm according to since previous seasons he was showing a good level, darkened a little but the performance of others as the Ghanaian, but I think now, he finds a greater prominence because finally has exploited in a "world level", something that previously still hadn't achieved.
In the case of Drogba, in spite in fact the criticism isn't him very favorable, I think he has had a very good season that hasn't been very recognized because he didn't score many goals (12 in league), but I think he has had a great performance in the collective play of Chelsea, independently of the goals and maintains a good level since his arrival to London, I think these are different points of view.
About "increase his performance", I didn't want to refer he should emigrate to another club or league, I think he could be "the best" in Lyon too, but I believes he still hasn't reached his higher level and could increase it more (I think it's possible) than this season wherever.
I like very much from France Rio Mavuba too, of Girondins Bordeaux in the position of DMF/CMF; well, but he isn't africain. :mrgreen:
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PLF
Legend
- 2 August 2004
Yeah He's French but I think he has Angolan roots. Mavuba is good but more hype than actual showing of his talent so far CONSISTENTLY, he hasn't done it all that often! Nonetheless Ligue 1 has no shortage of good DMF/CM's in M. Diarra, Alou Diarra, Didier Zokora, Mavuba, Toulalan, Emerse Fae who is very very talented and can even play as SMF, the list goes on and on!
Regarding Drogba what you said is exactly what I think. That people dumb people usually or media criticize him *too much* because of not scoring that many goals but when you think about how many games he doesn't start and Crespo does and how they both contribute to the end-product of "Team" so much that is what matters at the end, I don't think either should be getting criticized much! cuz they do so much more that doesn't get recorded in "Stats of end of season like goals/assists" but helps team get goals or help in other ways! This is type of thing that only you can see by watching the teams closely each week and unlike some people who only look at stats at end of season to see how good somebody did, that's what I hate! Cuz it's not a good indication of how player did, it's a rough indication but if a person had a part to play in 10 goals let's say but DIDN't give final pass, it won't be a goal for him OR assist, yet it shouldn't be forgotten it was him who created that chance so these are reasons I like Drogba and I think him getting criticized or called donkey and all that was stupid!
And let me assure you of one thing Glavisted. I NEVER care for what the media says to be the NEXT big deal or who is popular or what the commentators say to have influence on what I think in anyway!. In fact I've mentioned this many times on my thread that I disagree 94% of times with BS media stories making a player huge when he's just good and some great players getting no attention! So everything I say here unlike many who usually just go for most popular choices is really my OWN opinion based on my observations. So yes last year when lot of people were calling Drogba donkey and other criticisms, I was defending him as I will now if somebody criticises for no reason but he really isn't as good of a player as Essien or M. Diarra are just to name two so he can't be in my top 3 and I'm not sure he would fit in top 5 either but like I said hard to rank after #3 cuz they're very close or different players so can't compare that much.
Regarding M. Diarra getting "even" better! Yeah I think it can happen too after all he's 24-25 now so there is room for improvement even if he's already the best DMF in world for me anyway! And maybe you'd think so as well if you saw EVEN more Lyon matches but 9 matches in Ligue 1 + CL isn't bad at all anyway Glav
In anycase it's hard to say "Who is the BEST" always anyway because there is at least 4-5 good choices and Emerson, MAkelele, Essien, M. Diarra, and many others are very close levels to each other. But M. Diarra is more of a COMPLETE package than those because no matter how great Makelele who I IDOLIZE is, he won't provide same threat defensively and offensively in the "Air" for example.
Same with Mascherano who has excellent visoin/passing. Then the ones that do possess his great aerial ability like Alou Diarra of Lens don't have his vision/passing and two-footedness! So you see for every player that I try to compare, there is after all one or two thing that M. Diarra takes the cake in that's why I say for me he's the best right now even though they're all very close! Because he's the most complete and has many many different skills that other ones lack in way or two if you deeply analyze their game.
P.s. You are from where in North America originally? American? Mexican?
Anyways nice talking to you guys.
Gotta go now take care.
Regarding Drogba what you said is exactly what I think. That people dumb people usually or media criticize him *too much* because of not scoring that many goals but when you think about how many games he doesn't start and Crespo does and how they both contribute to the end-product of "Team" so much that is what matters at the end, I don't think either should be getting criticized much! cuz they do so much more that doesn't get recorded in "Stats of end of season like goals/assists" but helps team get goals or help in other ways! This is type of thing that only you can see by watching the teams closely each week and unlike some people who only look at stats at end of season to see how good somebody did, that's what I hate! Cuz it's not a good indication of how player did, it's a rough indication but if a person had a part to play in 10 goals let's say but DIDN't give final pass, it won't be a goal for him OR assist, yet it shouldn't be forgotten it was him who created that chance so these are reasons I like Drogba and I think him getting criticized or called donkey and all that was stupid!
And let me assure you of one thing Glavisted. I NEVER care for what the media says to be the NEXT big deal or who is popular or what the commentators say to have influence on what I think in anyway!. In fact I've mentioned this many times on my thread that I disagree 94% of times with BS media stories making a player huge when he's just good and some great players getting no attention! So everything I say here unlike many who usually just go for most popular choices is really my OWN opinion based on my observations. So yes last year when lot of people were calling Drogba donkey and other criticisms, I was defending him as I will now if somebody criticises for no reason but he really isn't as good of a player as Essien or M. Diarra are just to name two so he can't be in my top 3 and I'm not sure he would fit in top 5 either but like I said hard to rank after #3 cuz they're very close or different players so can't compare that much.
Regarding M. Diarra getting "even" better! Yeah I think it can happen too after all he's 24-25 now so there is room for improvement even if he's already the best DMF in world for me anyway! And maybe you'd think so as well if you saw EVEN more Lyon matches but 9 matches in Ligue 1 + CL isn't bad at all anyway Glav
In anycase it's hard to say "Who is the BEST" always anyway because there is at least 4-5 good choices and Emerson, MAkelele, Essien, M. Diarra, and many others are very close levels to each other. But M. Diarra is more of a COMPLETE package than those because no matter how great Makelele who I IDOLIZE is, he won't provide same threat defensively and offensively in the "Air" for example.
Same with Mascherano who has excellent visoin/passing. Then the ones that do possess his great aerial ability like Alou Diarra of Lens don't have his vision/passing and two-footedness! So you see for every player that I try to compare, there is after all one or two thing that M. Diarra takes the cake in that's why I say for me he's the best right now even though they're all very close! Because he's the most complete and has many many different skills that other ones lack in way or two if you deeply analyze their game.
P.s. You are from where in North America originally? American? Mexican?
Anyways nice talking to you guys.
Gotta go now take care.
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Glavisted
Premiership
- 20 July 2005
Are too many players with African roots in France, the own Zidane has Algerian roots, really is a great pantry of players of that continent; in any case, Mavuba already has been international with France so he couldn't represent to Angola.PLF said:
I like very much him from some matches I could see of Girondins Bordeaux, but I couldn't think about his "regularity" because I can't follow Girondins Bordeaux ever.
I like Fae too, but I only I could see him in the African Nations Cup with Ivory Coast; I'm going to follow him in the World Cup.
We agree that, I enter inside the idea to value that into the level of Drogba and with the imaginary analysis that each one does, I think he's still before Diarra; I think Diarra could surpass him in the future, but right now he isn't before Drogba. Obviously this could be discussed because it's only my point of view and depends of the imaginary idea each one perceive the quality of players in different positions.PLF said:
No, no mate, I wasn't referring me to you with that comment, is aforesaid as a general idea and really extended nowadays, as the fever by the young talents reducing the interest of the experienced. Obviously that isn't good or bad, depends of each situation.PLF said:
Well, really that's probably; here it's difficult to follow Le Championnat, just I can analyze more them in Champions League and some matches in Ligue 1, but I don't know if is final argument for the comparing between two players due to in some cases when continues a player constantly besides distinguishing his characteristics in a more definite form, also can be created a more complete image of him than others, because no one can follow all players ever, and I think that's an influence that no one who likes to analyze the football and football players escapes, including me, in determined moments; that's why sometimes it's difficult for me affirm with security that a player is better than another without doubts, in this case, I think Diarra is one of the best players of Africa now, but I don't be sure if is better than Drogba, I think he is still a little advanced than him, but due to that the difference is closed and permits doubts, it's possible that can continue discussing that (as now).PLF said:Regarding M. Diarra getting "even" better! Yeah I think it can happen too after all he's 24-25 now so there is room for improvement even if he's already the best DMF in world for me anyway! And maybe you'd think so as well if you saw EVEN more Lyon matches but 9 matches in Ligue 1 + CL isn't bad at all anyway Glav
In anycase it's hard to say "Who is the BEST" always anyway because there is at least 4-5 good choices and Emerson, MAkelele, Essien, M. Diarra, and many others are very close levels to each other. But M. Diarra is more of a COMPLETE package than those because no matter how great Makelele who I IDOLIZE is, he won't provide same threat defensively and offensively in the "Air" for example.
Same with Mascherano who has excellent visoin/passing. Then the ones that do possess his great aerial ability like Alou Diarra of Lens don't have his vision/passing and two-footedness! So you see for every player that I try to compare, there is after all one or two thing that M. Diarra takes the cake in that's why I say for me he's the best right now even though they're all very close! Because he's the most complete and has many many different skills that other ones lack in way or two if you deeply analyze their game.
Born in San Francisco, United States.PLF said:
Really good discussion.PLF said:
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steevio_uk
Premiership
- 7 October 2003
- West Ham
Eto'o, Toure and probably Kameni or Essien. imo