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World Cup 2010 - England Thread

Lami

Niche Football
28 May 2007
Sydney
Man Utd, Juve
Wouldn't choose any above Rooney tbh. The right system around him with every player playing in their preferred position should make him shine. Like Tobi said, that system Capello forced on players just made matters worse because of conflicts.
 

zerovector

Champions League
1 December 2006
Maybe drop Rooney behind the main striker as plan B? A bit like Forlan for Uruguay. Behind someone like Kevin Davies or anyone who can hold up the ball maybe.

I can see Dawson partnering Cahill in defense. England don't have many options at right back... Luke Young? Richards?

Huddlestone playing beside a hardworker or destroyer could work, someone like Hargreaves/Parker/Cattermole.
 

Jamezinho

Golden Boot Winner
10 June 2003
Ipswich, England
Ipswich Town F.C.
Yea i see what your coming from but as i have said time and time again, why spend 30m on a british player when you can buy a foreign player for half the price thats as good if not better than that british players.

Now lets look at the german league. are homegrown players expensive their? i highly doubt it
That's the problem in England. Too much money in the Premier League so clubs prefer to buy the finished article rather than the promising youngster or invest in academies.

In the Bundesliga there simply isn't the money to attract the big name players. Each club has to be 51% owned by it's members which deters the big foreign investors that have ruined the Premier League (you wont see German clubs in administration as their league is run properly). So there's more emphasis on young German players and academies. The national team is benefiting from this.

Nice article here:

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5079994,00.html
 

jonneymendoza

Legend
1 January 2004
Arsenal
all future televised england matches have been moved to the *** adult channel. apperently the sight of 11 arseholes frequently getting hammered for 90 mins was far too extreme for normal tv
"david blaine is gutted that his record of doing fuck all in a box for 42 days has been broken by wayne rooney"
hehe
 

ALBICELESTE2010

Champions League
13 July 2006
Watford
Argentina & Watford
This from a mate of mine the administrator of WFC forums who is understandably upset but also has a sense of gallows humour:

 
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Radiation

Golden Boot Winner
6 February 2006
Widnes
Newcastle United
that wont make a fucking difference mate. You could put wenger, fegruson or even morinho in charge today and they still wouldnt do fuck all.

Its the british mentality thats the problem. once these players earn 200k a week, you think they give a shit about wearing an england shirt? hell no.

i can imagine terry and upson discussing what new sports car they should buy this summer during germany's first goal

I think Fergie and Morinho would do better than most other managers. They're in a different league when it comes to managing a team. They don't just do 11 men, some tactics and a bit of this and that. They go right down into the 'them vs us' mentality to get the entire team working together as if they're the underdogs trying to fight back against the rest of the world. Not the typical 'you're a star player... you're a legend... you'll start the next game regardless of how bad your performances have been'.

I think Redknapp would be a good English manager because he has the right mind for the job. He's all about English players, giving English players a chance and the youth of tomorrow. He doesn't get caught up in the whole 'super stars/legends of the game' crap. He just gets on with his job and can take ordinary players and get the best out of them.

I have no idea if earning a set amount suddenly makes the players incapable of caring about playing for England or not. They didn't seem to care that much when playing but maybe part of that was they're all being forced into playing a system none of them really cared for.
 
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ALBICELESTE2010

Champions League
13 July 2006
Watford
Argentina & Watford
Until the emphasis is placed on technique first nothing much will change.

Passion and commitment only get's you so far. Ask any fan of a team in the Blue Square Premier for example.
 

Aboutreika18

Too Black, Too Strong
5 September 2006
All these stories of players being rejected from the academies here for being "too small" is also a damning indication of where the priorities lie with academies when developing young players.
 

Lami

Niche Football
28 May 2007
Sydney
Man Utd, Juve
All these stories of players being rejected from the academies here for being "too small" is also a damning indication of where the priorities lie with academies when developing young players.
Ironic, specially when you see all them latin players coming through the ranks.
 

Jamezinho

Golden Boot Winner
10 June 2003
Ipswich, England
Ipswich Town F.C.
All these stories of players being rejected from the academies here for being "too small" is also a damning indication of where the priorities lie with academies when developing young players.
I can imagine Lionel Messi being rejected by English academies.

"Sorry, sahn, you're too small 'n aint strong enuff."
 

Radiation

Golden Boot Winner
6 February 2006
Widnes
Newcastle United
But both those guys eventually got deals and rose up through the ranks so it's not like small players are rejected all over the country 100% and not a single small guy gets any kind of chance at any kind of level.

Also just because they rejected them and we know how they ended up, doesn't mean they were always playing at that skill level. They both may have been poorer years ago.



Let's assume that from this day forth all clubs takes on all kinds of players, short fat tall lanky.. whatever.. if you have the skill you're in.

Well... apparently English players only look good because we have foreigners around us. So it looks like we're crap and screwed no matter what.
 

Shazam!

League 1
30 July 2006
Why the hell is Gerrard even a starter? Some1 quicker and more intelligent should be backing up Lampard which had a much better season then Gerrard. He should be the key player in England, not Steven
One decent game doesn't make up for 25+ terrible games that Lampard has had for England prior.

He's like 32 now anyway, so if Gerrard or Lampard is making way, it'll surely have to be Lampard.

I think were England are lacking is defense. Ashley Cole and Glen Johnson have no competition whatsoever and the centre back cover are either a little bit past it (Carragher), always injured (King), or just really not that good (Upson).

Hart, Dawson, A. Johnson, and Walcott surely have to start the next few England games. A. Johnson on the left and Walcott on the right gives you natural balance.
 

Jamezinho

Golden Boot Winner
10 June 2003
Ipswich, England
Ipswich Town F.C.
Well... apparently English players only look good because we have foreigners around us. So it looks like we're crap and screwed no matter what.
I think there's a lot of truth in that.

English players are just not on the same technical level as many other countries. I never think English players look comfortable in possession with the ball at their feet, struggle with ball retention when trying to play a passing game, and panic under pressure. Even Algeria looked more comfortable on the ball than England.

The way English players are coached needs to change right from the grass-roots level. Worry less about strength and pace and promote players with passing ability, technique and creativity.
 

ALBICELESTE2010

Champions League
13 July 2006
Watford
Argentina & Watford
But both those guys eventually got deals and rose up through the ranks so it's not like small players are rejected all over the country 100% and not a single small guy gets any kind of chance at any kind of level.

Also just because they rejected them and we know how they ended up, doesn't mean they were always playing at that skill level. They both may have been poorer years ago.



Let's assume that from this day forth all clubs takes on all kinds of players, short fat tall lanky.. whatever.. if you have the skill you're in.

Well... apparently English players only look good because we have foreigners around us. So it looks like we're crap and screwed no matter what.
Actually the academy coaches saw his talent but the first time he popped round they said sorry we don't think the size you are you won't make it.

Come back next year. Same result until he had a growth spurt and was accepted.

The ability should take priority. Everything else comes second and can be worked on later ie conditioning and learning tactical discipline and learning your position.

Players like Hoddle and Le Tissier are treated with suspicion instead of being the focus of a side even Beardsley in 86 and Waddle dropped, picked again, dropped .

The lack of street football take Scotland for one has had a detrimental effect. As it did in Uruguay .They are reinventing it and the benefits are being seen in their u20 performances.

And do you really need expensive academies ?

In Argentina the kids are encouraged to express themselves. They play on small sided pitches which no HSE officer would pass here because they are too bobbly barely grassed and coached usually as Messi was by enthusiastic amateurs.

Even when they go to a club academy the emphasis remains on ball skills until they turn 14-15 when conditioning and tactical awareness and learning a positional role is worked on.
 

Neoexodus

SLB Juve Barça Arsenal
8 November 2007
Portugal
One decent game doesn't make up for 25+ terrible games that Lampard has had for England prior.

He's like 32 now anyway, so if Gerrard or Lampard is making way, it'll surely have to be Lampard.

I think were England are lacking is defense. Ashley Cole and Glen Johnson have no competition whatsoever and the centre back cover are either a little bit past it (Carragher), always injured (King), or just really not that good (Upson).

Hart, Dawson, A. Johnson, and Walcott surely have to start the next few England games. A. Johnson on the left and Walcott on the right gives you natural balance.
And how many times Gerrard and Lampard have NOT been forced to play with eachother in those 25+ games?
 

Jamezinho

Golden Boot Winner
10 June 2003
Ipswich, England
Ipswich Town F.C.
Even when they go to a club academy the emphasis remains on ball skills until they turn 14-15 when conditioning and tactical awareness and learning a positional role is worked on.
Yeah I think that's crucial. In England I think we pigeon-hole players into a position from too young an age. The top academies like the one at Ajax make every young player play in every single position, even in goal, so that they get a good understanding of the game as a whole and become well-rounded players. Only once they have done this do they find their natural position.
 

Milanista

Mangiamoli!
Staff
19 December 2002
London & Milan
AC Milan
Since there has been a lot of emphasis on maintaining clean finances since tighter regulation in Serie A, more and more teams are focusing on youth. Sampdoria for example have been playing several young players such as Poli (20) who is touted to be a future talent - look where it got them - theyre in the CL next season. Also teams like Bari have 2 of Italy's most promising center backs in Bonucci and Ranocchia.

What I'm trying to say is that money does ultimately affect the way in which clubs use players.
 

Wilko22

Confusions Familiar
19 March 2003
Manchester United
England players will today fly back to a heroes welcome, as they arrive in Glasgow airport.

:P
 

Lami

Niche Football
28 May 2007
Sydney
Man Utd, Juve
Since there has been a lot of emphasis on maintaining clean finances since tighter regulation in Serie A, more and more teams are focusing on youth. Sampdoria for example have been playing several young players such as Poli (20) who is touted to be a future talent - look where it got them - theyre in the CL next season. Also teams like Bari have 2 of Italy's most promising center backs in Bonucci and Ranocchia.

What I'm trying to say is that money does ultimately affect the way in which clubs use players.
Perfect example this. I wish all countries do the same without being forced to because of financial issues.
 

IceMan_Bergkamp

Total Football
9 December 2002
London, Toronto
Arsenal
Perfect example this. I wish all countries do the same without being forced to because of financial issues.
+1

Just posted this on Football365... not been posted on the website yet...

Me said:
A lot has been made of the way the Germans play - efficient, robust etc.

However, one thing that always strikes me when I watch the odd Bundesliga game on ESPN - they blood youngsters EVERY game. Why don't we do this in the Premiership? Results based pressure to succeed? Hence, lets bring in some foreigners to spice up the game/guarantee results? No faith in the youth, so lets loan them out to gain experience?

Look at the experience being received in the German top flight. The top 4 finishers in the Bundesliga last season had German 1st teamers between the ages of 20-25;

Bayern Munich - Holger Badstuber, Christian Lell, Thomas Müller
Schalke - Manuel Neuer, Benedikt Höwedes, Lukas Schmitz, David Loheider
Werder Bremen - Marko Marin, Mesut Özil, Aaron Hunt, Per Mertesacker
Bayer Leverkusen - René Adler, Stephan Kießling, Lars Bender, Gonzalo Castro, Toni Kroos

Compare with Premiership...

Man Utd - Danny Welbeck (now on loan)
Chelsea - Daniel Sturridge
Arsenal - Theo Walcott (when not injured), Kieran Gibbs (sparingly)
Tottenham - Tom Huddlestone, Aaron Lennon, Danny Rose

The Germans also seem humble - like they are proud to wear their shirt. They played as a team, and were very technical.

Look at the overpaid nonsense we have? No team spirit, long ball nonsense, and it's like they're taking things for granted. As if their waiting on the other team to hand them the win - 'how dare the other team win... don't they know we're England - we created football?'.

These English players know that week in week out, they will start for England. Three separate managers now, and the same damn team. I couldn't believe my ears we were still crying the same tune "will Lamps and Stevie-Me work together". Stepping out of bars in fisticuffs, hairdresser affair nonsense, and WAG this WAG that. Who gives a f*ck! The damn media is also as culpable. Whipping up the whole lionheart 1966 bravado scenario into a crescendo and then sharpening the knives when the team come home with their tails between their legs looking like Wizard of Oz rejects.

I believe that unless there is an overhaul in the way the Premiership is structured, and we consistently 'blood' our youngsters in the top flight, we will not be in a position to challenge in national competitions for some considerable time. The whole coaching setup must also be reviewed - Spirit, heart, effort is yesteryear. Time to get technical like our European cousins. The Germans look like becoming the dominant force in European national football for the next decade (our U21 were beaten last year 4-0 - and that's our next generation!).

No offence to anyone reading this, but if the current tangent continues that the Premiership is on, we could end up becoming a fat SPL.
 

Jamezinho

Golden Boot Winner
10 June 2003
Ipswich, England
Ipswich Town F.C.
Nice post, Iceman. That's pretty much what I was trying to say earlier about Germany and the Bundesliga. I really think the Bundesliga could emerge as the top league in Europe in years to come if they stick to their business model. It's not all about money and foreign investors there, but more about well run clubs and domestic talent, and the result is the most closely contested and interesting league in Europe. The knock-on effect for the German national team is there for all to see.
 

bebo

Looking for a Manager
25 July 2005
Arsenal Thread
The Arsenal FC
Look no further Arsenal at 30 you are on a 1 year contract basis the guidelines . Arsenal r the mainly all foreign players ran by English. Also, hasn`t won nothing in a decade :P but a model run club in the new era
 

Jamezinho

Golden Boot Winner
10 June 2003
Ipswich, England
Ipswich Town F.C.
Look no further Arsenal at 30 you are on a 1 year contract basis the guidelines . Arsenal r the mainly all foreign players ran by English. Also, hasn`t won nothing in a decade :P but a model run club in the new era
Arsenal run their club the right way. I know they have a squad full of foreigners, but they do have some really promising British players that are getting their chances. Unfortunately they are the exception to the rule in the Premier League, but I respect their principled approach.
 

bebo

Looking for a Manager
25 July 2005
Arsenal Thread
The Arsenal FC
Mutd blooded their youth too w/ the "you`ll never win w/ kids" campaign but then they sold their soul. To keep up w/ the Jones. And more n more clubs did the same.

You see Walrus (forgot his real name lol)saying in this day in age you have to go the Wenger route invest in youth.That too is heading the wrong way because it suggest you have to bring in younger foreigners to your academy. All in all it takes out the real purpose to get talent and hurt NT again pandors`s box I tell ya
 
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