Evoweb Gameplay Lab, FIFA 20 (Frostbite FIFAs?)

Anth James said:
I’m playing on OS V3 which I know probably isn’t the best for general test purposes, but I just can’t play the game on default. My reference points are from the sliders and if I start playing from default I’ll lose my bearings on all of the values. I didn’t really feel it was OP, just a harder challenge (at this point anyway). I’m still noticing my own midfielders not tracking into the box enough but I feel there is a definite increase in intensity/aggression across the pitch.
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No problem with that, it is probably better to test it with your own reference gameplay.
I agree about the last part, I would also like to have the dm more interested about what is is going on at the entry of the box.
 
I played 2 CL games yesterday with OL using only the above change (no walk speed, no ball physics change, ect..) and they were quite fun and epic to play.
There is indeed an increase in intensity which makes for a more interesting midfield play at the cost of an increase in the overall pace. I hope it doesn't overwrite teams mentality too much to. It worth keeping an eye at it.
Anyway I had some hot scrambling moments in both boxes, that I didn't save unfortunately.
One thing I really like with it, is I don't have to micromanage my players anymore, like switching to my cb while applying secondary pressure with my fb on the wing, because teamates better track the danger.
 
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Here is a CPU vs CPU video with the "perception increase" mod on :

I find it quite watchable for a cpu vs cpu game (may be the real life football drought plays a part in this). Some quick pass sequences just looks nothing like real football, but it is what the default game is and thanks to @manmachine we know how to humanize this.
My intention was to do a side by side video with the mod on and off but it just looks awefull.
 
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papinho81 said:
Here is a CPU vs CPU video with the "perception increase" mod on :

I find it quite watchable for a cpu vs cpu game (may be the real life football drought plays a part in this). Some quick pass sequences just looks nothing like real football, but it is what the default game is and thanks to @manmachine we know how to humanize this.
My intention was to do a side by side video with the mod on and off but it just looks awefull.
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What do you think is next step now? I’ve tried testing some of the referee strictness values but I haven’t noticed much of a difference yet..
 
Anth James said:
What do you think is next step now? I’ve tried testing some of the referee strictness values but I haven’t noticed much of a difference yet..
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Refree is definately something to look at together with collisions.
Then cdm positioning in defense and/or line length. I wish we had a number of player in the defensive box tactical setting like we have for the attack.
Still physics, including ball physics, I am not sold with it yet. Shots are way too powefull with the settings I shared, and surpisingly I am getting higher cpu passing accuracy (up to 10%) with it than without. I suspect this is on the ball mass (heavier ball, shorter passes).
Contextual errors for passes and shots. I would love to make it more dependent on angles and oponent pressure.
 
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Has anyone had any luck with fouls? I’ve been testing various elements of referee strictness. It’s frustrating as there are so many little fouls that aren’t called in this game. The one value I definitely noticed made a difference was referee_strictness_redcard_threshold. Default value is 85 and I lowered to 1. This resulted in red cards for the most minor foul (which is obviously not what any of us want, I just wanted to see if the values made a difference). I applied this same logic to most of the referee strictness values and lowered them. There may have been some more fouls, but I need to test more. I didn't really notice huge changes.
I've noticed under referee_strictness_foul all the values are at 0 and the BaseField is 0...I'm not really sure what that means, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of room to move there!

Also, I've been looking again at ball physics. I want the ball to feel a little more it's own entity and free. I've found lowering Field_GlobalSlideFrictionMult helps, but the trade off is additional pace...I'm still searching for the middle ground of freedom and weight.
 
I think I've found a combination I'm happy with in regards to ball physics. I need to test more, but from what I've played this seems quite good. The ball is more free, but I've increased some friction on the pitch to counter the pace. It might still be a little fast for some but aim is for freedom, headers and crisp passing without passing and shooting feeling too powerful. Again, I'm playing with OS V3 and I know this doesn't impact physics but the change to error etc may result in a different experience on default.

If anyone wants to try, the link is here - https://mega.nz/file/1Z9TGDYD#D5yFBK6oRQsfUBY6KoiO9eCADVWQLtEsQAg-5D4PeDs
 
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Anth James said:
Has anyone had any luck with fouls? I’ve been testing various elements of referee strictness. It’s frustrating as there are so many little fouls that aren’t called in this game. The one value I definitely noticed made a difference was referee_strictness_redcard_threshold. Default value is 85 and I lowered to
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I haven't looked at it at depth, not because I don't want more fouls but because it's a lower priority for me, but yeah I don't think strictness is the trick. In fact I would lower card strictness/increase the threshold, if possible. It's calibrated for very few fouls and the ref will most likely show a yellow most of the time. I would look at anything that has to do with collision forces/player balance/tackles. There are quite a few files to look at. There's even a "tackling chance" variable somewhere that I would try to increase, an aggression threshold for tackles somewhere else. Oh, and there's even a file dedicated to shirt-pulling (I assume), gp_defence_pushpull_runtime. So there are many things to try and you can also make players lose their balance and fall more easily with physical play (and even dive!) which should increase the number of fouls a lot. (And that's why I would then lower card strictness, as too many games would be "ruined" by red cards).

I was getting some very promising results early on and some awesome falls + diving, it was beautiful, but then I started looking at other things and didn't save any changes, oopsie!
 
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I haven't done much testing lately on my side, because of lack of time and how frustrating testing sessions can be sometime.

I have a gameplay mod I use when I want to play the game, that gives a bit more challenging (harder to take players on one one and speed bursting them) and less end to end experience. But it is far from being fully satisfying, because of lack of teams shape, lack of players runs/awareness in attack or in defense.
If someone is interested: http://www.mediafire.com/file/r8kpcom3ywh6da8/gameplay.rar/file

I have reinstalled fifa19 with the hope I could compare gameplay values between 19 and 20 with frosty. But those gp_ files are nowhere to be found in 19. I also tried to locate them with cheat engine but I could only locate a fraction of the variables I looked for. So it seems to me EA completely reworked the gameplay implementation for 20 and I am not sure we can learn anything from 19 values.

I tried the game though, which I didn't play since about 2 month after its initial release. Immediately you can see that team shapes much more accurately when compared to real life. Line height is set much higher, line length tighter, players are marked closer. It is really harder to find pocket of space. Looking from a far cam you can see players running players all over the pitch where in comparison in 20 they are standing and walking for the most part. 19, on normal speed, feels immediately way way faster than 20. Too fast to my taste, but the way the different part of the gameplay assemble together feels more polished and believable.

I will not drop 20 for 19 though, because the freedom of movement we have in 20, freedom of the ball, freedom of players movement, is absolutely unique. I wish we could bring more shape and players awareness to 20. I still believe there is the foundation of a great game in there.
 
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Mathgamer said:
FIFA 17 x FIFA 20

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Yes, even though he's fut-focused, this guy makes the best gameplay analysis videos. His videos about fifa 19 last year were also spot on.

Like I use to say, Fifa 17 is not a very good game overall, but it's at least the last football game released by EA. The last game where I had to use a part of my brain when passing/building up, the last game with a midfield, the last game where the defenders could keep a straight defensive line...
 
I saved a few clips as well in the past few days, I suppose this is a nice opportunity to post them, as this is one of the things i'm looking at by trying 2 player matches. I switch to the striker for the second team and my aim is to see if it's possible to "wake up" the zombie AI and maybe tighten up the team shape as well.


This is the "legendary AI" by the way, not "amateur" or something like that!

One issue is that a lot depends on the "new" tactical system introduced last year, which frankly sucks IMO. In fact I made a thread about it here when 20 came out: https://evo-web.co.uk/threads/tactics-options-in-fifa-19-20.81235/
 
manmachine said:
I saved a few clips as well in the past few days, I suppose this is a nice opportunity to post them, as this is one of the things i'm looking at by trying 2 player matches. I switch to the striker for the second team and my aim is to see if it's possible to "wake up" the zombie AI and maybe tighten up the team shape as well.


This is the "legendary AI" by the way, not "amateur" or something like that!

One issue is that a lot depends on the "new" tactical system introduced last year, which frankly sucks IMO. In fact I made a thread about it here when 20 came out: https://evo-web.co.uk/threads/tactics-options-in-fifa-19-20.81235/
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Those D lines look really bad.
Did you manage to get any positive result in regard to the bold part?

Edit: There is some variables in the positioning_positioning file that looks potentially interesting for the defender tracking attackers runs instead of putting them offside. Such as the ATTR_DefenderBadOffsidePosition Rate and Duration.
 
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I did some test on the variables I mentioned above from the gp_positioning_positioning_runtime file
With ATTR_DefenderBadOffsidePositionRate all the way dow to 0.01 for the eleven values ([0] to [10]) instead of 0.07 for the [10] to 0.25 for the [0].
With ATTR_DefenderBadOffsidePositionDuration all the way dow to 1 for the eleven values ([0] to [10]) instead of 3.7 for the [10] to 8 for the [0].
(I belive the eleven values correspond to range of attributes (tactical awareness?) with [0] being a very bad player for the attribute and [10] a very good player.)

These two changes have really helped to make teams playing with higher lines and with less covering runs from the defenders. They still hapen from time to time but much less than before. When you press L1 the cpu is not opening the red sea for the ball carrier, if you see what I mean.
As a result the midfield and the D lines looks closer to one another.

Download project file:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/r51ltoe6dkw8q70/gp_positioning_positioning_runtime.fbproject/file

 
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papinho81 said:
I did some test on the variables I mentioned above from the gp_positioning_positioning_runtime file
With ATTR_DefenderBadOffsidePositionRate all the way dow to 0.01 for the eleven values ([0] to [10]) instead of 0.07 for the [10] to 0.25 for the [0].
With ATTR_DefenderBadOffsidePositionDuration all the way dow to 1 for the eleven values ([0] to [10]) instead of 3.7 for the [10] to 8 for the [0].
(I belive the eleven values correspond to range of attributes (tactical awareness?) with [0] being a very bad player for the attribute and [10] a very good player.)

These two changes have really helped to make teams playing with higher lines and with less covering runs from the defenders. They still hapen from time to time but much less than before. When you press L1 the cpu is not opening the red sea for the ball carrier, if you see what I mean.
As a result the midfield and the D lines looks closer to one another.
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Nice work. So teams retain their defensive shape more with this? More offsides?
 
papinho81 said:
I can't say if there were more offsides, but attackers did adapt and did shorter run with this. As for the shape I think it also helps quite a bit.
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Looking forward to giving it a try. Judging from the videos, the shape looks much better.
 
papinho81 said:
I can't say if there were more offsides, but attackers did adapt and did shorter run with this. As for the shape I think it also helps quite a bit.
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Just tried it out. Definite improvement to shape and line. I tried playing with it on and off and you can really see the difference. I've noticed a reduction in the amount of shots per game also (seemingly due to more logical defensive behaviour resulting in less gaps opening up).
 
A couple of patches after release EA ruined "Contain". In their own words:

"Players that are being controlled by Contain will now take longer to react to the ball carrier’s movements."

Such a wonderful change! So, here's how to reverse it and improve AI defending:

Edit the defense/gp_defense_jockey_runtime and find the Jockey_ReactionTime & Jockey_ReactionTimeModifier variables. In Jockey_ReactionTime change the Y axis values only to "2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 0, 0". In Jockey_ReactionTimeModifier change the Y axis values to "0, 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4, 0.5". Job done! (Not gonna lie, not sure if these are the best values to use, feel free to experiment! Reducing the values improves the reactions. especially the first change/variable).

Kudos to EA for the excellent demonstration video they made back in September. I don't have to record my own now!

So, again in their own words, "here's what this looks like in action, with Eden Hazard as the blue player controlling the ball, and the red player trying to cover him using Contain".


Before TU2: After you make this change in frosty.
After TU2: Before you make this change in frosty.

😄

(Note: Increasing walk speed also helps with this: The defender will catch up a bit faster it seems to me. But this reaction time curve, controls how much the defender will badly overcommit in the first place).
 
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Chris Davies said:
@Matt10 - check out the post above, and get yourself into the modding scene! :D

I remember you (alongside myself) ranting about this change when EA made it... One of the worst they ever did.
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Those poor FUT guys and their lack of understanding of what AI defending actually is.

Personally, I'm fine with the change now due to sliders (lower sprint/higher accel for user). I'm at the point where FIFA 20 is done, and I'm still enjoying it with sliders.

I've been out of the PC modding scene for a long time - too many projects and kids...lol - this is a great find - and brilliant thread though!
 
Matt10 said:
Those poor FUT guys and their lack of understanding of what AI defending actually is.

Personally, I'm fine with the change now due to sliders (lower sprint/higher accel for user). I'm at the point where FIFA 20 is done, and I'm still enjoying it with sliders.

I've been out of the PC modding scene for a long time - too many projects and kids...lol - this is a great find - and brilliant thread though!
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I can tell you it's very time consuming trying to figure out all the stuff that can be modded. All this stuff was not available in 19 or earlier so we have no point of reference. I doubt we'll manage to change everything we'd like before 21 comes out. But when that happens and once the game is moddable I believe we can learn a whole lot more. Personally I'm just trying different stuff trying to see how the gameplay is configured and perhaps once in a while we may discover something really useful, like the contain thingy.

Since sliders are your trade I think you may find this informative (it's the gp_customization_customization_runtime file):

Capture2.JPG
I believe it's defining the limits within which you can work with sliders! (the powebar variable is the biggest hint).
So a slider value of 0 corresponds to the "Min" value and a slider value of 100 to the "Max".

It's interesting that some of these don't have a slider equivalent. For example "DribbleError", "SetplayShotError" and there's even a dedicated "PassAngleError". Maybe it's stuff they never bothered to implement in the menus of the game yet, who knows.
 
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manmachine said:
I can tell you it's very time consuming trying to figure out all the stuff that can be modded. All this stuff was not available in 19 or earlier so we have no point of reference. I doubt we'll manage to change everything we'd like before 21 comes out. But when that happens and once the game is moddable I believe we can learn a whole lot more. Personally I'm just trying different stuff trying to see how the gameplay is configured and perhaps once in a while we may discover something really useful, like the contain thingy.

Since sliders are your trade I think you may find this informative:

View attachment 47435
I believe it's defining the limits within which you can work with sliders! (the powebar variable is the biggest hint).
So a slider value of 0 corresponds to the "Min" value and a slider value of 100 to the "Max".

It's interesting that some of these don't have a slider equivalent. For example "DribbleError", or "SetplayShotError". Maybe it's stuff they never bothered to implement in the menus of the game yet, who knows.
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They might be integrated into more generic sliders such as the first touch error and shot error respectively. For exemple there is a min max for the line height when attacking and when defending but in game you just have line height.
 
I'm not sure if Paulv2k is on these forums, but I saw him say on twitter that all of the gp_team values were the boosting values to AI, which obviously makes the scripting happen. He said the 0-11 values in each of the gp_team were stat boosts or reductions depending on in game situations. I went through and reduced every value in these to 0, including the emotional values.
This 'should' eliminate the scripting hopefully! I've added project and mod file if anyone wants to add it in.

Mod - https://mega.nz/file/JQ92RYTZ#nvEfHZK1QUrS_GXlat-hVrN6GB8Mdk5i_1ZdEZa2-Ak
Project -https://mega.nz/file/gd00nIyb#Wtn4F580hYkvdIWh5YAxaSovb3Qwetj8RXIjduI2N4Q

I'm not sure what the emotional values do exactly in gp_team_team so the following is linked without any adjustments to those values and ONLY all of the 0-11 values in the rest of the options in gp_team

Mod- https://mega.nz/file/sU8UESxQ#z_7TMUJCPiPhvIzXMeHOVIo9WIZAnj_xMCewYZGCiFQ
Project- https://mega.nz/file/hJlWUYwZ#XfkKimSlPXLLbcVdIeNm6rZgj1vE4hIYz_OADTx5b18
 
Anth James said:
I'm not sure if Paulv2k is on these forums, but I saw him say on twitter that all of the gp_team values were the boosting values to AI, which obviously makes the scripting happen. He said the 0-11 values in each of the gp_team were stat boosts or reductions depending on in game situations. I went through and reduced every value in these to 0, including the emotional values.
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I noticed these and I assumed that if they had an effect it would be in career mode (perhaps it would affect your players as well, depending on form/morale). I just let them be since I'm only trying kick off matches. Reducing or getting rid of these boosts makes sense. Maybe you could also use them to change the balance of the game somewhat. For example instead of zeroing all team chemistry values for aggression we could try a +16 boost for every single case. Maybe this could also help boost fouls (thought about it, but haven't tried it).
 
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