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Reasons I've had it with PES

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NickSCFC

Banned
18 July 2003
Stoke-on-Trent, UK
Stoke City/Liverpool
1. Presentation:

Like PES5 loadin screen, with the WE logo, but they greyed over "Winning Eleven" and even managed to use the wrong grey!

Commentary always the same shit, yet EA have miles better commentary, and even bothered to completely re-do it for the Xbox 360 version, which sounds like a real match!

AND THE WORST THING!!! Those stupid guys with cameras that stand by the tunnel as the players walk out... they look like Virtua Fighter 1, what is there purpose, they;ve been there since PES1 and have always looked shit.

2: Master League

So you have to pick a real team, but play with Zimines n co... and KOnami can't even be bothered to give us pounds, instead we get credit or Yen or some shit.

3: No German League

And no explanation

4: Fake kits that haven't changed since PES1

If This is Football can have 2 strips on unlicenced Adidas kits, then why can't Konami?
Nah we still get that blob under the armpits for fake Adidas, lazy Konami!

JackBauer says FIFA on 360 is better than PES so I'm gonna buy that instead cause some lad on the internet said so.
 
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Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
Konami care about one audience and one audience only; the Japanese. The Japanese don't care about anything but the gameplay (which is the only thing that matters to a lot of people, fair enough), and the fantasy element. If you couldn't make a fantasy team filled with Beckham, Ronaldo, Messi, Dida and a few classic players, it wouldn't sell HALF as well.

Europeans as a whole would much prefer realism in every sense. PES has realism on the pitch, but not off it, and that's what ruins it for me. Take Football Manager. If the game was crap, transfer values of 72,000 credits for Wayne Rooney, unrealistic transfers happening all the time, a team who play like they're drunks being put into the Premiership for you to manage with nothing else left to do... And a match engine that made you feel like you were in the stadium watching real players... I still wouldn't play the game. And that's how I feel about Pro Evo. I don't want realism for 90% of the game, I want realism for 100% of the game, on the pitch, off the pitch. 90% isn't good enough, not after they've had £40 off me every year for nearly TEN YEARS and the only differences have been minor tweaks (whether they make a lot of difference or not) and licenses, which A) I don't give a toss about and B) don't see the point in when you can only play with licensed teams in an unlicenced fake-as-fuck fantasy league anyway.

I don't want to say I'll never buy one again in-case Seabass plays FIFA 07 on the 360 and goes "oh shit, we need to get our act together lads", or in-case Konami Europe deem Pro Evo important enough to develop for a EUROPEAN audience, and have two seperate teams working on two seperate games, Pro Evo and Winning Eleven. But after playing the FIFA 07 360 demo, I honestly can't see myself ever playing Pro Evo again.

Last month I thought WE10 was the most realistic football game out there. Last week I thought FIFA 07 (current-gen) was almost beating it in every department, and today, after playing FIFA 07 on the XBOX 360, placing passes wherever I want them to go and watching players run on to them rather than running straight AT them, and shots that can go anywhere, not just left, right or middle... I can't believe I ever played the game. And that's the God's-honest truth.
 
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danwin

Oak Hard
1 December 2003
It's just a phase, you'll be back with your tails between your legs. It reminds me of a friend that turned into a gay punk rocker in the 60's. It was never going to work out for him, they just never accepted his hitler esque moustache even though he combined it with a 2 foot pink mohawk. There's something to be learned here.
 

egyptenaar

Conference
9 March 2006
Amsterdam
Ajax
Konami is just fucking lazy!! The made a good base in pes 2, but what exactly is improved since then. Graphics? just a little bit. Gameplay? are you crazy! Just a couple of tweaks!! Master league? The one in pes 2 with 3 leagues wasn't bad at all. I don't wan't to buy pro anymore because every year there asking €60 for just a couple of little changes. But if you played a new pes, you don't wan't to go back to the old one, because the bad things that are gone in the new one will anoy you. So maybe the new FIFA on the 360? I played the demo, scored a screamer from 30 meters and a other beautiful goal just in the first game! And the graphics are just bad. So on october the 26th I will go to a shop to buy the new pro evo. Just like last years.
 

Moufa-man

Conference
18 June 2003
Planet Moufa
In my opinion pes5/we9 were great with their minor faults.I played we10 non-stop and stopped 1 month ago.

The reason is that although we10 has all the elements of a great game and is improved in every aspect it has the worst goalkeepers ever in a pes/we game.This made me feel sick about the game.Even sicker than when I played pes4 (what a relief we9/pes5 was!).

But they had a great amount of time to fix pes6 so I'm hoping the did.On the other hand there is we10 j-league coming only one month later so at least one will be great.But I hope they fix pes6 cause all the tournaments are done on pes6 and never on any winning eleven.
 

Amsterdammer

League 2
22 February 2006
Amsterdam
Ajax & Barcelona
I think Nick and the Jack Bauer dude are just silly kids. You talk about unrealistic bla bla............so FIFA is more realistic? Man you guys are really funny hahaha
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
Have you played FIFA on the 360? No? And yet you know it's shit? That's pretty clever, kid. There are plenty of people in the FIFA 360 demo impressions thread who don't like it, but they can tell you why without resorting to "you're funny" or "it's shit". And I respect their opinion. I don't respect yours.

So, basically, think before you post.
 

Seraphs21

Skillz That Killz
20 August 2003
Southampton
Southampton FC
I think its the same thing as before, it feels fake, nothing like real life, it looks great and sounds great, but plays crap, plays the same as the others, the ball has a set path for each pass to a player, its like you can see it programmed to go to the player and its easy to interpret whats gonna happen, where in PES anything can happen and you have to watch the ball, in Fifa its like its certain to reach its target, I just dont like it, keepers are crap get lobbed from about 2 yards infront of them aswell.

The hair, shorts and shirt movements are absolutely stunning though, but a lot of the players faces look shite, shockingly enough :O

Anyway, PES has never failed me, and I dont think it will this time, just playing it the first time and feeling the realism cant be beat, and Im sure ill get that feeling this year too.
 

rockykabir

hello
30 March 2003
London -> New York -> San Francisco
Liverpool FC
I kinda understand what Nick and JB are getting at. So far, I've found the "Next Gen" version of WE/PES to be v disappointing. The graphical improvements of the 360 videos are ok but there hasn't been that much improvement otherwise :(

Although I wasn't entirely convinced by it, playing FIFA 07 has definitely outlined a great number of improvements that should be made to the WE/PES series....namely:

- Decent manual passing. I've taken JB's advice of reducing the "Passing assistance" of FIFA 07 to zero and it is a definite improvement! The way the players run onto a pass is so refreshing to see. Konami had made a terrible job of implementing this :(

- First Touch control. I dunno whether they continued this with FIFA 07, but having played last year's version of FIFA, I really liked the use of the second analogue stick to control your first touch. With players like Ronaldhinho, the first touch is so crucial to their game - this isn't implemented well in PES imo.

- Crowd atmosphere. The playability of the Konami series should always be valued over the fancy presentation of FIFA. However, it is shocking how little progress Konami has made to fix the atmosphere of the crowd. Most of the time when you score a magnificient goal, the crowds don't give it any justice. Also you are approaching the opposition's goal, there is no gradual raising of crowd noise. There's no booing if your team is playing crap. What's even more annoying is the highly obvious and predictable crowd sound loop that plays over and over :( :mad:

-Presentation and commentary. I think commentary is a bit of a lost cause. Maybe due to the fact that the game is originally japanese, a lot of the phrase meanings have maybe been lost in translation. For example, something which is said in japanese may take 2.5 seconds should usually take a single second in English - which perhaps explains the inconsistent tempo and blabber-ness of the commentary? Although I'm not too bothered about the presentation, Konami can do a lot better!

I've been playing the WE series for years now (ever since ISS on the Snes) and the latest incarnations have definitely been the most insignificant in terms of innovation (Evolution my arse!). I don't care about how many boots there are or the ripple of the goal nets, I just want to further enjoy the game experience.

Therefore I can see why many are desperately trying to *like* the latest FIFA incarnation as frankly they are the only ones making an effort. Konami are just resting on their laurels here. Ironically, it is almost as if EA and Konami have swapped places with Konami releasing updated roster copies of PES3! :(

We shouldn't feel that we are betraying PES/WE by criticising it...we just can't allow Konami to take us for a ride!
 
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Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
I totally respect your angle Seraphs; thanks for not posting "it's shit lol" and leaving it at that.

The more I play the FIFA 360 demo the more faults I spot, and yet I still think the game's faults are outweighed by it's plusses. To me, Pro Evo and FIFA are different games of football; both brilliant recreations of the sport, but both with their own set of problems. Whichever game you choose is whichever game bugs you less.

For example, FIFA has better shooting (place that ball wherever you want), but worse defending (you can use the "offside trap" button, RB, to bring your defense forward, but you shouldn't have to). Pro Evo has better referees (it's stop and start in FIFA, which ruined a PES for me once upon a time), but worse movement (yes you can use super-cancel, but again, why should you have to?).

Personally, after experiencing the free-flow passing in FIFA when you put the automatic passing guage to zero, I am amazed. I've not seen anything so revolutionary in a football game, and the shooting's not bad either, so I would swap that for Pro Evo, put up with the dodgy defensive line and say goodbye to the Master League and the on-rails movement in a second.

But we all have our opinion. :)

rockykabir said:
We shouldn't feel that we are betraying PES/WE by criticising it...we just can't allow Konami to take us for a ride!
That's exactly what I mean. Perhaps I am a bit too desperate for FIFA to be great, but I've given Konami, for Pro Evo and then Winning Eleven (plus Winning Eleven J-League some years) £40 twice for ten years - that's £800 (over £1,000 including the J-League games) - in the hope that they would have done more than gameplay tweaks (not evolutions, certainly not revolutions, tweaks) and add a license for a league that does nothing but let you see their pretty kit - you've still got to play in a fake-ass league with them. As I've said already, to my mind, you've got to have gameplay on AND off the pitch. And honestly, it doesn't. So, as should be expected, I'm not going to give them another £1,000 to do things to the game they should have done fifteen years ago, and fix gameplay problems they added themselves a year earlier.

Pro Evo is an amazing game and I'd not say otherwise, but I've had it with them, I'm afraid.
 
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Jamezinho

Golden Boot Winner
10 June 2003
Ipswich, England
Ipswich Town F.C.
Agree with everything Rockykabir says. Thats basically how i feel on this issue - FRUSTRATED with Konami. Jack Bauer and NickSCFC make very valid points and i share many of your views.

Its just a shame Konami have got so wrapped up in gameplay tweaks that they've forgotten about everything else. I mean does Seabass ever play FIFA? Has he compared it's fine career mode to the frankly abysmal Master League? Has he seen the amount of teams available? Has he soaked up the match atmosphere and presentation, the fantastic commentary?. If he hasn't he needs to get a copy fast.
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
FIFA doesn't sell very well in Japan. Winning Eleven does. So, in Seabass's mind, his game is ten times better in every department and Europe won't want it to be any different. End of story, unfortunately (and when we all go out and buy the game regardless, who can blame him).
 

Jamezinho

Golden Boot Winner
10 June 2003
Ipswich, England
Ipswich Town F.C.
I suppose its the same story with the 360? Its bombed in Japan, so Seabass would rather wash his hands of it and concentrate on the PS3. Globally, however, i think the 360 will turn out to be a more successful console than the PS3 and he should give it the respect it deserves. All this stuff about the PS2 pad being the best suited to PES is starting to bore me. Things change, Seabass!
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
In fairness, I always used to feel that way about the PS2 pads. Only this week did I really seriously sit down with WE10 again, and the analogue stick crippled me!! When you get used to the 360's analog stick, it's awkward to go back. Like you say, things change.
 

rockykabir

hello
30 March 2003
London -> New York -> San Francisco
Liverpool FC
The thing is, hardly any (real) player play like they do in PES. Watch any game in real life and you will see that player (well...human) movement is a lil awkward.

The addition of the funky skills was the thing that pee'd me off about the latest PES incarnations...people just abused it and ended up running past 8-10 players (something you will hardly ever see in real life). I'm not saying that FIFA had implemented this well but to say that PES is "more realistic" is a joke.

IMO, Konami are in a better position to make the "perfect" game. If they think hard and put their resources into things such as a proper manual passing system rather than adding the latest flipflopflap (or whatever), I'll be more impressed (and they can finally live up to it's title: Pro Evolution Soccer!)
 

wejunky

bunnywhi7e
24 April 2006
Here and there.
Arsenal, FC Porto
just played fifa 07 demo on 360 after getting it from marketplace.. and it beats the living hell out of every PES/WE version. This is coming from someone who is a HARDCORE pes/we fan. I always hated EA and the way they make FIFA shit year after year but on 360 its a different story. FIFA 07 on 360 does feel like a real football period. Its is hundred billion times better then current GEN WE/PES now to be fair I won't say it will be better then PES 6 on 360 or WE on 360 but WE10 and PES5 = garbage compated to fifa 07 360.
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
Posts like yours with no content to them at all make me laugh as well, so we're all happy :)
 

Daisuk

Yiddo
22 October 2002
Oslo
Tottenham Hotspur
I think it all boils down to the fact that Fifa still plays like shit (yes, I actually bought it a week ago, and traded it in again). If you're one on one with the GK, he'll just stand on his line! You can't actually place shots, crosses are absolutely shite, and the general feel of the game is just bad. It is, however, getting A LOT better, but it is still no where near PES in terms of gameplay, in my opinion.

This is based on Fifa 2007 on the PS2 though, haven't tried it on the 360. Is it much different from the PS2-version?
 
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Stan

Allez les Lionceaux !!!
12 September 2002
The reason i've (almost) had it with PES5 it's the same as every year,every year again fucking Konami does it: PES6 is (almost) there.

Oh and Jack, no offense meant, you know i have learned to like you, but there is much wisdom in Stringer Bell's "senseless" postings...as a matter of fact to me he seems one of the most intelligent members of this forum...a down to earth guy with much common sense and good humour...you are very wrong there.
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
So putting "Yep" in a thread he hasn't actually made a relevant comment on is a valuable way to spend your time? Come on, I've got a lot of respect for you but the guy seems to be going out of his way to piss a load of posters off recently.

Sorry to go off-topic.
 

Stan

Allez les Lionceaux !!!
12 September 2002
I think Stringer wants to say that this 12.567th thread moaning about Konami and the game. I don't see the relevance of this sort of "i'm a spoiled bratand want to show it" threads...
Every year, the weeks before a release this moaning keeps coming...a couple of weeks later, usually the same people keep on telling how great the game is...

Nick, would you care to elaborate??? I'm not a native English speaker you know and apart from that, i'm rather slow...or we could continue this discussion in Dutch if you like...
 

Dar

Part Timer
Staff
21 February 2003
Dublin
Nick has recently loved to hate Konami, it's entertaining as most of his threads have huge holes in the arguments within.

Keep up the good work Nick. :thumbup:
 

crayon

Champions League
23 October 2004
Japan
Liverpool FC
Lol - just a game guys. PES/FIFA - you pay your money you take your chance. Just like the TV, if you don't like it you can always switch off (or in this case not buy it).
 

Stan

Allez les Lionceaux !!!
12 September 2002
Nick Cave said:
u bent een star mijn vriend... hope to god that's right!! ;) My language skills are limited to a little French, German and Japanese... Written even less!!
Not bad...it's "ster" instead of star, but i'm impressed...
 

Nick Cave

Wrexham fan for my sins...
10 July 2004
Non football league waste land...
Wrexham AFC
Dar said:
Nick has recently loved to hate Konami, it's entertaining as most of his threads have huge holes in the arguments within.

Keep up the good work Nick. :thumbup:
Dar I didn't know you cared ;) ... I was giving opinions, my gripes with PES and WE have been the same from the start.... I want realism on AND off the pitch, Oh.. I do hate the ML with a passion though... I just want a total football Sim and Konami have the nearest thing to it but are so blinkered or Lazy they don't see it...

My comments to Stan were meant to be read as I enjoy his post's, most of them crack me up, I guess a lot of the time I forget the language difference being an English forum. I will have to check my threads for the holes..... I start so few as it takes me so long to read and add to the others between visits... but hey if I caused offence to anyone my apologies 8-[
 
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Nick Cave

Wrexham fan for my sins...
10 July 2004
Non football league waste land...
Wrexham AFC
As I thought in my latest incarnation I have started hmmmm... a massive 11, Dar check em and tell me which are the holey ones... I'm back in Dublin on the 15th of November for four or five days, a time and place and we'll discuss it over a drop of black stuff!! ;)


PS my anti Konami feeling is on the rise given PES6 now and next gen is getting even weaker.... damn you Pondtrout... #-o
 
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