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The Evo-Web Football Thoughts Blog

bsmaff

International
11 August 2003
Welwyn Garden
Exeter City
No fan would want a salary cap or purchasing cap.
It is the same with all leagues not just the Premier League.
In L2, there are plenty of clubs who rejected the salary cap motion, as there are many owners down there who add their own money into the clubs so they can afford players they simply can't afford - There is a rumour Salford are paying one of their players 8K a week in L2..

The Premier League is an uncompetitive Super League already where it is split into about 4 divisions.
You have the Man City (who have never earnt a single trophy).
Then you have the the rest of the Big 6 and Leicester fighting for the final 3 Champions League spots.
You then have about 8-10 teams fighting for Mid-Table (Southampton, West Ham - Teams like them)
Then you have the bottom 4/5 which is always the promoted team and a couple of teams who survived the year before + Newcastle.

Newcastle want a new owner cos of Ashley and want the Saudi's to come in so they can be transformed into Man City v2, where they will never earn a league title just buy it.
The funny thing about the Newcastle takeover though, is Mike Ashley is probably the only person who has created a sustainable football club, by living within their means.

I didn't agree with the Super League, and never thought it was actually a thing, they just wanted to test the water and see what people thought of it.
It was met with a big backlash and no teams were punished, as UEFA don't have the balls to ban the clubs who generate them the most money.
So even UEFA are only interested in money, they won't ban the big clubs cos they will lose money and they keep making changes to tournaments which aren't broken so that they can generate more money.
That is the only reason why they have changed the Champions League format - to make more money themselves through higher TV deals - More matches more money.
FIFA have even done the same with the WC, more games equals more money.. Even though a 64 team WC with one knockout game between the other 32 makes much more sense than a 48 team tournament, with a weird way of how it works.

Everyone is as bad as each other - UEFA, FIFA the clubs.. They only care about how much money they can suck from people.
Football hasn't been a fans game for a long time at the elite level, you can no longer turn up and watch a game on Saturday like you could before the Premier League, the clubs have made tickets so expensive the average man can no longer afford to go.

If Man City and Chelsea are protesting against foreign owners, then I don't know why..
Without the Saudi money, Man City would be a up down team from Prem to Championship and about as big of a club as Bolton.
 

Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
Why Man City or Chelsea should be forced to spent the same amount of money with Burnley for example..?Ok it's one thing to say that there may be a limit of 100 millions for transfers or whatever and you can't pass that or even forced to have 4-5 academy players in your squad to help teams put more attention to their academies..but forcing everyone to spent the exact same is just unrealistic.Some teams are rich and some not so rich..that also goes for people,for companies etc.It is what it is.If you force it with a ''communistic'' way that every team should have the same money and same players then one thing is for sure..that they will be mediocre teams with mediocre players..and in the end they'll produce mediocre football..
Just thinking out loud here - but you say "mediocre football" and it makes me realise that the period of football I loved the most could probably be described as "mediocre football", especially if you compared it to modern football. Yet naturally talented players dominated the game and as a spectacle, it wasn't "mediocre" at all because of the players who lit it up, and they were spread more evenly throughout the league (so you didn't just get a decent game of football by watching e.g. Arsenal, but by a wider range of teams, who had someone a bit special).

Again, just thinking out loud, but I feel like leagues would be better off if you had teams lead by stars as opposed to them all congregating in the same team.

Total tangent here, but... I often think about the disconnect between clubs and the players who represent them. I'd love there to be some development in this way going forward, but money is such a focus that I don't think it ever will be.

What I mean is - you have a team called Liverpool (not just top clubs either, e.g. Wolverhampton). The stadium's there, but that's about the only connection. The fans, who are from the area and who love the team with a passion, go to watch players who are told how to sound like they love the city, but really they're there for money, or for the opportunity to play with the best players money can buy.

So really, they are "Liverpool" (or "Wolverhampton") as much as Samsung are the "Seoul Dudes" or Apple the "California Bros". The clubs would be more accurately called FSG FC (or Fosun FC), the conglomerates that fuel them.

Personally, I think wage caps and/or stricter "minimum players from local area in starting 11" requirements (not necessarily both) would be fantastic for the game as a spectacle. I really do.

I'm even a bit jealous of American sports that have a draft system. Maybe that's too far, but that's certainly a fix to what I was saying about "all stars congregating in the same team" and not being spread out across the league, and certainly better than what we have now... in my opinion.

No fan would want a salary cap or purchasing cap.
It is the same with all leagues not just the Premier League.
In L2, there are plenty of clubs who rejected the salary cap motion, as there are many owners down there who add their own money into the clubs so they can afford players they simply can't afford - There is a rumour Salford are paying one of their players 8K a week in L2..
I totally disagree - I think fans who are glory hunters and only care about their own success would be against a salary cap. But I think fans who are seeing the bigger picture and would like a return to the days where you didn't just have one or two teams running things, would be for it.

But I also accept that lots of people are against it, and other than the reasons I've just stated, I can't really understand why.
 

Stan

Allez les Lionceaux !!!
12 September 2002
I agree 100% with Barnes. But i'm afraid it will never happen.
What should happen to "rescue" football?

1. the right people in the top ranks of UEFA and FIFA: former players fans, people who rather love football than a club (this will never happen, but let's believe in it for the sake of argument).
2. Even distribution of television money within leagues and within Europe. Big Belgian clubs were scadalised by the Super League plans, but meanwhile they are building glass ceiling in our own league, and this happens everywhere. Something is bad as long as it doesn't include our club. If int includes our club it is a good thing.
3. A salary cap and a draft system. Players can play for foreign clubs under 23 years, that means that they have to stay at their formative clubs until they are 22 years old. Then the draft system comes into work. Let's say that a player with the talent of Messi become 22 years. Most CL clubs will be interested in him. The lowest rank club that qualifies for the CL will have the first chance to buy him. If that club declines, then second from the bottom etc. This happens all the way down the pyramid. Player X from Chelsea wants away to another English club, the lowest ranked club from the EPL get's first chance to buy him.
4. Clubs can only play with maximum 4 foreign players.
5. Relegation and promotion over a period of 3 years.
6 Former football players take a look at the rules of the game: a new handball rule, a new oof-side rule (only look at the feet for example).
7. Clubs can't sack their manager/coaches.
8. Cfr Germany, 51% of the clubs in the hands of the fans.
9. A fair proper and fit test for club owners. THe rules for the test are made by a panel of former players, fans, referees and other proven stakeholders of football. The test is done by an independent profesional organisation that is very well payed to do all these tests worldwide. They will act in maximum transparancy and fans can veto new owners.
10. The exclusion of player representatives (i mean the like of Rayola, Mendes and others).
11. Every 3 years every club has to undergo some sort of external audit that is published in all transparancvy and presented to the fans on the board of the club (done by the same professional organisation that does the proper and fit test for the owners).

Other ideas are welcome....
Is it realistic? No, but one can only dream.



8 ....
 

bsmaff

International
11 August 2003
Welwyn Garden
Exeter City
I totally disagree - I think fans who are glory hunters and only care about their own success would be against a salary cap. But I think fans who are seeing the bigger picture and would like a return to the days where you didn't just have one or two teams running things, would be for it.

But I also accept that lots of people are against it, and other than the reasons I've just stated, I can't really understand why.

The reasons I don't think salary caps is a good idea, is because if it is a level playing field then players would look to play in desirable areas rather than clubs being able to afford them.

Would a foreign player really want to move to Liverpool or Manchester when he could earn exactly the same money living in Milan or Barcelona?
Certainly no one would want to move to Burnley.

Maybe the MLS has the solution with their 3 star player thing, where you can nominate 3 players who do not come into the salary cap.
That way teams can still buy and sign star players.

The death of the premier league came when Roman A turned up and bought Chelsea.
That led to Man City and other teams being purchased and turning the league into being uncompetitive.
 
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mattmid

International
15 December 2011
No fan would want a salary cap or purchasing cap.
It is the same with all leagues not just the Premier League.

Certainly the salary cap idea proposed for Lge 1 and 2 last season was completely ridiculous, but it needs something because player salaries are the root of the whole financial problem. They are completely disproportionate to income and the worst part is it cycles all the way down so all clubs end up with a similar problem.
Just thinking out loud here - but you say "mediocre football" and it makes me realise that the period of football I loved the most could probably be described as "mediocre football", especially if you compared it to modern football. Yet naturally talented players dominated the game and as a spectacle, it wasn't "mediocre" at all because of the players who lit it up, and they were spread more evenly throughout the league (so you didn't just get a decent game of football by watching e.g. Arsenal, but by a wider range of teams, who had someone a bit special).

Again, just thinking out loud, but I feel like leagues would be better off if you had teams lead by stars as opposed to them all congregating in the same team.

I agree, a more even league would largely rid the game of the don't lose at all costs mentality that is killing the entertainment in the Premier League in particular, because teams would be more even and thus more competitive, rather than their only hope of winning being defending deep and nicking it on the break.

This also highlights the disconnect between going to football and watching football on tv. Going to football is about so much more than only what's on the pitch, the atmosphere, watching your team with thousands of other people, what's on the game etc, it all adds up to the over all experience plus of course the fact that you are supporting your team rather than watching two teams you don't really care about. If I watch Burnley v West Brom on tv then I desperately need for it to be an entertaining game, which it very likely wouldn't be so I wouldn't watch it. However if I was a fan I would be looking forward to it because there would be a lot on the game. But if Burnley and West Brom suddenly have 4-5 more quality players because they are spread around then it will likely be a better game of football for the neutral as well.


Total tangent here, but... I often think about the disconnect between clubs and the players who represent them. I'd love there to be some development in this way going forward, but money is such a focus that I don't think it ever will be.

What I mean is - you have a team called Liverpool (not just top clubs either, e.g. Wolverhampton). The stadium's there, but that's about the only connection. The fans, who are from the area and who love the team with a passion, go to watch players who are told how to sound like they love the city, but really they're there for money, or for the opportunity to play with the best players money can buy

I think you've nailed it there, the disconnect between fans and players is more than ever. When we were in the Premier League we largely had a team of mercenaries with a few exceptions such as Herman Hreidarsson and Arjan De Zeeuw who were genuine players and people who would give their all no matter the league and a handful who had been at the club already. The rest were essentially talent for hire.


7. Clubs can't sack their manager/coaches.

I had a thought on this before whereby clubs can only sack manager during the transfer windows.

9. A fair proper and fit test for club owners. THe rules for the test are made by a panel of former players, fans, referees and other proven stakeholders of football. The test is done by an independent profesional organisation that is very well payed to do all these tests worldwide. They will act in maximum transparancy and fans can veto new owners.

There has to be something done with this the English one is pathetic, I think Hitler would probably have passed it.


10. The exclusion of player representatives (i mean the like of Rayola, Mendes and others).

As Simon Jordan on Talksport rightly calls them, parasites. It's completely beyond me why clubs pay a player's representative. Total madness. No doubt it's really down to what is essentially a payment to get the agent to get the player to sign.
 

Stan

Allez les Lionceaux !!!
12 September 2002
The reasons I don't think salary caps is a good idea, is because if it is a level playing field then players would look to play in desirable areas rather than clubs being able to afford them.

Would a foreign player really want to move to Liverpool or Manchester when he could earn exactly the same money living in Milan or Barcelona?
Certainly no one would want to move to Burnley.

Maybe the MLS has the solution with their 3 star player thing, where you can nominate 3 players who do not come into the salary cap.
That way teams can still buy and sign star players.

The death of the premier league came when Roman A turned up and bought Chelsea.
That led to Man City and other teams being purchased and turning the league into being uncompetitive.

Would a foriegn player mover to Liverpool or Manchester? But the attractiveness of an area for me is as good an incentive as what players are paid.
And why would nobody move to Burnley? Perhaps Burnley would have a manager like Guardiola who makes players much better?

What we see now is that absolute top players and top managers will only go to 3 or 4 clubs worldwide: Real Madrid, PSG, Barcelona and Manchester City. Perhaps you might add both Manchester United and Juventus, but that is all. Do you see Messi go to Chelsea or Borussia Dortmund for example? He would never do that. Guardiola to Atletico Madrid? Mourinho going to Spurs was the proof that he knows very well that he is an has been (and i'm a Spurs fan).

We need to get rid of that. We need to see KDB, Mahrez, Sterling, Gundogan, Walker and Stones in different clubs and certainly not in one and the same club. We need a level playing field and salary cap will help achieve this. And there is another reason. Clubs who throw money away and have huge debts like Barcelona, are cheating. They should be punished. I can't afford to buy a Lamborghini, so i will never think about buying one, would never even consider it. In football paupers buy Lamborghini's all the time. That is totally immoral and unfair.

I have much more admiration for a club like Burnley than for Manchester City even if i don't like their style of play (and do like to watch Manchester City).

Good that you mention the MLS model, didn't know that existed (thanks for mentioning it), but i don't want it. In my system clubs will make stars and will have to fight hard to earn them.
 

Buzzy

Evoweb Jester/Stadboardmaker.
14 December 2006
Cyberspace
Liverpool
Football has pretty much become a circus nowadays, with clowns aplenty, this game stopped being a sporting affair years ago.

Money has taken all the competition out of the game. It's like how clubs in the past have bought players from potential rivals just to stick in the squad and therefore can't impede their clubs progress.

Also the "Lesser" teams who if lucky might gel a half decent team together that captures the fans imagination of success...only for that to be proved a myth by some power hungry beast of a club(s) to start throwing the cash around (which in all fairness the smaller club finds it hard to resist) and before you know it, that team you were following is no more, and its back to almost square one.

Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't Ken Bates start all this players earnings drive? i always remember him saying something like "we have been getting footballers on the cheap for too long" . OK at the time i tended to agree with him, but this has gone way beyond that, people are now throwing vast amounts of cash at players to play for them. In the natural scale of things this has become obscene.

Surely it has become insanity when in the current market £10 million pounds isn't going to get you a very good player only a good one. Money and capitalism has truly ruined the game. Sky sports make me laugh though. There they are banging the drum against the ESL but they started the ball rolling years ago, for the obvious reasons i don't need to go into.
 

mattmid

International
15 December 2011
Would a foreign player really want to move to Liverpool or Manchester when he could earn exactly the same money living in Milan or Barcelona?
Certainly no one would want to move to Burnley.

Thing is do any of them live in the city now ? Don't they all live out in leafy Cheshire?

Good that you mention the MLS model, didn't know that existed (thanks for mentioning it), but i don't want it. In my system clubs will make stars and will have to fight hard to earn them.

This does raise something else that really needs to be done in England and that is to stop these big clubs hoovering up any kid from 6 upwards who shows a modicum of talent. Surely they can put a rule in place to that teams can have a maximum number of players per age group? Chelsea for example just grab anything that moves and sell it if it doesn't make the grade. They sold Hazard's brother to M'Gladbach and I don't think he ever put a Chelsea shirt on. Like Piazon who recently left after 10 years there having played 1 first team game.

It used to be a case of young players rising up to their level of ability. Now they start in Premier clubs and work their way down to their level. Also stopping much needed income from selling those players to bigger teams. We had a player on loan from Palace when we were in League 2 and he wasn't even good enough for that. He was playing his first proper games while we had players in the side younger than him that were 50-100 games into their league career. It can't be right for the game or the players involved.

Also the "Lesser" teams who if lucky might gel a half decent team together that captures the fans imagination of success...only for that to be proved a myth by some power hungry beast of a club(s) to start throwing the cash around (which in all fairness the smaller club finds it hard to resist) and before you know it, that team you were following is no more, and its back to almost square one.

You only have to look at the recent Ajax and Monaco sides to see this don't you? Champions League semi finals to talent stripped in a season. Like @Stan mentioned with the quality of the Belgian national team in recent years but none of them will ever play in Belgium. Imagine the likes of the top four or five sides in Belgium if all those players were playing amongst those teams.
 

bsmaff

International
11 August 2003
Welwyn Garden
Exeter City
You only have to look at the recent Ajax and Monaco sides to see this don't you? Champions League semi finals to talent stripped in a season. Like @Stan mentioned with the quality of the Belgian national team in recent years but none of them will ever play in Belgium. Imagine the likes of the top four or five sides in Belgium if all those players were playing amongst those teams.

This though is also the problem with loyalty.
Players don't want to play for their boyhood/supported clubs anymore - They are mercenaries out to get as much money as they can till they retire.
You are unlikely to ever see another Le Tissier again.
 

Madmac79

Champions League
11 September 2006
Give me "communistic" football every day of the week instead of of this current shit show where all the same teams always wins.

Tv rights equally divided between all and salary cap.

Then with a level field we'll see who's better. You are great at growing up youths, you win. You are better at doing the team with a phenom and 10 bad players, you win. You want 11 guys all on the same medium level with a super disciplined coach.. you win. If you are good, of course. And so on and on. The possibilities would be infinitely better and more varied than "amass world class players and coaches and flip a coin".

It's not gonna happen, of course, for a thousand different reasons. But I'm bored to hell with current football, wouldn't be for my team I would have probably moved away a long time ago. I'd happily take an alternative to this rotten (by the same rich clubs admission) system.

You only have to look at the recent Ajax and Monaco sides to see this don't you? Champions League semi finals to talent stripped in a season. Like @Stan mentioned with the quality of the Belgian national team in recent years but none of them will ever play in Belgium. Imagine the likes of the top four or five sides in Belgium if all those players were playing amongst those teams.
Atalanta (for as much as I don't feel much sympathy if any, for them) does have an incredible youth sector. I'm sure in a more fair football, where big teams wouldn't overpay their bests, they would have won at the very least a Serie A title or two.
 

mattmid

International
15 December 2011
h a level field we'll see who's better. You are great at growing up youths, you win. You are better at doing the team with a phenom and 10 bad players, you win. You want 11 guys all on the same medium level with a super disciplined coach.. you win. If you are good, of course. And so on and on. The possibilities would be infinitely better and more varied than "amass world class players and coaches and flip a coin".
Yeah when I made the youth league file I found out just how good Atalanta's youth set up was!

I suppose we could make the same point with managers/coaches. The opinion is that Guardiola is a fantastic coach and I'm not for a minute going to suggest he isn't but managing Barcelona, Bayern Munich and Man City with endless pots of money isn't managing Granada, Bielefeld and Burnley is it? It would be fascinating to see how he would do with clubs like that. Is he that good of a coach that he could get them with their lack of financial clout to perform better than 'regular' coaches?

I've said on here before for my money in England the best manager in my opinion ('pound for pound' to use boxing terms) has to be John Coleman at Accrington Stanley. That club are punching so far above their weight it is crazy and have been for a few years now and also play good football to watch as well or at least they have when I've seen them. Not sure what their salary is now in League One but they won League Two with what I read was a £17k a week wage bill for the entire first team squad. They get crowds of a little over 1000 and must have minimal income and budget and there they are being very competitive in League One. What would he achieve at a big 6 team? Maybe nothing, maybe he wouldn't be able to motivate multi millionaire footballers. But wouldn't it be fascinating to give him the chance and see. Imagine Guardiola and Coleman swap places for next season - now that would be a tv show I would watch.
 

Stan

Allez les Lionceaux !!!
12 September 2002
Why do talented football players don't stay at their original clubs? Because in England unless you play for LIverpool, City, Chelsea or United, you don't have any chance to win silverware. And because the press puts pressure on you to leave your club for a bigger one. Best example: Harry Kane. For years now i see speculation that he will leave Spurs for a bigger club. And that is in England were there are 4, 5 or 6 clubs that can win things.

Germany: Bayern and now and then Dortmund.
Italy: Juventus and perhaps this year Inter.
Spain: Barcelona, Real Madrid and now and then Atletico
France: PSG and if they fuck up (once every decade?) perhaps another club (mOntpellier and perhaps now Lille).
Portugal: Porto and perhaps Benfica.
Holland: Ajax and now and then PSV or Feyenoord.
Belgium: Brugge and now and then Genk, Anderlecht or Standard.

A star player who comes from clubs like Sevilla, Atalanta, Everton, Saint-Ettienne, Mechelen, Twente, Braga, Köln might never in his life play CL. Al lthese clubs were once clubs who were very good. KV Mechelen for example, won a Europa Cup. Saint-Etienne played a final of what is now the CL.

My favourite team is KRC Genk, every time they play CL, they are the laughing stock of that year's CL. They once lost 7-0 against Valencia with a team that had Courtois, Coulibaly and KDB in it. Players that came from Genk: Courtois, Coulibaly, Castagne, Maehle, Ndidi, Malinovsky, Praet, KDB, Leon Bailey, Defour, Milenkovic-Savic, Origi, Carrasco, and Benteke (and there are loads more). This team would compete in the CL, but they don't have achance because they don't get a fair share of the television money. Result: all those players left them. Ajax is an even better example.

Ajax and Genk are the two teams that have given most players to the top 5 competitions in Europe, the last 10 years. For that reason alone they deserve to compete with the best clubs But if they play them, they don't stand a chance. Genk never (smaller reputation), Ajax mostly.
 

mattmid

International
15 December 2011
@Stan You're right but I'm wondering why it is so different now in terms of the 'I must play CL football' Think back to the 70's and 80's and there were plenty of top players that rarely or never played in the equivalent European Cup particularly with only the Champions qualifying (what a novel idea for a champions league UEFA!). They might have played in the UEFA cup or Cup Winner cup but of course by the fact of the European Cup being League winners only the UEFA cup was a much stronger competition than today Europa League is.
 

Buzzy

Evoweb Jester/Stadboardmaker.
14 December 2006
Cyberspace
Liverpool
@Stan You're right but I'm wondering why it is so different now in terms of the 'I must play CL football' Think back to the 70's and 80's and there were plenty of top players that rarely or never played in the equivalent European Cup particularly with only the Champions qualifying (what a novel idea for a champions league UEFA!). They might have played in the UEFA cup or Cup Winner cup but of course by the fact of the European Cup being League winners only the UEFA cup was a much stronger competition than today Europa League is.
Well said Matt, i was never a fan of the restructure of the euro formats. To me "champions" means champions. 2019 & 2005 when we won, (2005 what a night! will never forget it like most people), but by tradition and not profit, we should have been in the UEFA cup.

I was very disappointed when they scrapped the cup winners cup, a famous trophy and a great badge of honour for any winner. UEFA in one move devaluing domestic cup competitions across Europe.

I can't remember which came first, UEFA changing the formats or the premier league reducing clubs?
If the premier league was reduced to compensate for the more matches played in Europe, then once again we have a kick in the teeth for the extra clubs who were relegated and can never compete for those lost places.

I can't remember but did other leagues in Europe suffer the same fate?
 

Stan

Allez les Lionceaux !!!
12 September 2002
I also remember the time when only the champions (and the title defender of previous year EC 1 winners) played in EC 1. And yes, the UEFA Cup was very difficult to win then. i remember Alex Fergusons first big win with Aberdeen against Real Madrid, the y won the Cup winners Cup.

I would like to see the old formats come back, but this will never happen, i'm afraid.
 

mattmid

International
15 December 2011
It's certainly not without irony that UEFA changed the European Cup, consisting of only Champions, into the Champions League and then had teams in it that weren't champions!

I remember Dundee Utd getting to the Semi Final, and then later the UEFA Cup final beating Barcelona on the way and I think they lost to Gothenburg in the final over two legs. Can you imagine either of those two ever being in a European final again?

Yeah the Cup Winners Cup was great, gave in theory anyone a chance to get into Europe.
 

chimichurri

Non-League
17 April 2021
It's certainly not without irony that UEFA changed the European Cup, consisting of only Champions, into the Champions League and then had teams in it that weren't champions!

I remember Dundee Utd getting to the Semi Final, and then later the UEFA Cup final beating Barcelona on the way and I think they lost to Gothenburg in the final over two legs. Can you imagine either of those two ever being in a European final again?

Yeah the Cup Winners Cup was great, gave in theory anyone a chance to get into Europe.

I've been really fascinated with Dundee United lately. I'm not scottish but idk I feel so interested about that one club's history.
 

Stan

Allez les Lionceaux !!!
12 September 2002
I've been really fascinated with Dundee United lately. I'm not scottish but idk I feel so interested about that one club's history.
Are there two football stadiums closer than those of Dundee United and Dundee FC? I know that the stadiums of Racing Club and another Argentinian big clubs are also very close, but in Dundee it's extremely close.

Dundeestadions.jpg
 

Flipper the Priest

Harder.Better.Faster.Stromer.
15 July 2003
Scotland
I've been really fascinated with Dundee United lately. I'm not scottish but idk I feel so interested about that one club's history.

My favourite things about United:

1. This.
2. This.
3. This.

Yes, another excuse to post that video!

In all seriousness, the league is better when they're in it but they've been so badly managed (as have Hearts, Hibs and Rangers over the last 10 years, which has hurt the league's appeal) that they've yo-yoed a lot in recent times. Oh how I long for the early 80s when Aberdeen and United were the top dogs.

Are there two football stadiums closer than those of Dundee United and Dundee FC? I know that the stadiums of Racing Club and another Argentinian big clubs are also very close, but in Dundee it's extremely close.

View attachment 97017

Tannadice and Dens are pretty shoddy these days. Both have sections that are cordoned off and unoccupied for health and safety reasons. Fans of both teams oppose a joint stadium which has been sounded out for years. Personally I think both should swallow their pride.
 

*aLe

World Cup Winner
30 August 2005
Lombardia
NOT Lombardia NA.
Well at least you got revenge, two years later. ;)
Yeah, back when Milan used to be in the final 8 (and often in the semifinals) on a regular basis... Those were the days. 🙁
I hope early '90s could come back again (I mean, 5 finals in 7 years... 3 of which won), or if I can't have '89-'95 anymore, at least I'd love to have a period like '03-'07 again.
 

Stan

Allez les Lionceaux !!!
12 September 2002
They are an ordinary team since they haven't got the millions of Parmalat.
For me Atalanta are the new Parma, but they seem to do it in a more sustainable way, based on youth development and a very good scouting system where they go for lesser known player that are very good (they bought 3 players from my favourite club in Belgium KRC Genk: Castagne, Malinovsky and Maehle, for example).
 

Flipper the Priest

Harder.Better.Faster.Stromer.
15 July 2003
Scotland
It's funny how most people of a particular vintage (I assume it's a case for most) have such strong affection for Parma. It's understandable, 90s Serie A was the coolest football's ever been, and they were right at the forefront of that with a frankly absurd squad and amazing kit.
 
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