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The Evo-Web Football Thoughts Blog

Flipper the Priest

Hellow Mum
15 July 2003
Aberdeen
In the Europa League, they're both qualified,should be ranked about the same.
Just winder whether uefa woul take that draw with ease,:)

In my mind there's two sets of clubs who pretty much plays the victims left and right in this.
Always the other side's fault,never facing up to what they do themselves,and add religion to that...
Infectious shit brother!

In one of our derbies ,we have two aik and djurgarden (aik is pretty much both Celtic and rangers combined here,the federations team etc) we got 3 games in an empty stadium plus a 3 point reduction when things got out of hands Vs djurgarden.
Were the only team who has got that here,wouldn't happen to aik of course...
Ah. Well I'm certain they'd be kept apart in the group stage by UEFA rules and I think after that it could happen by chance. If UEFA were to punish clubs relative to the crime then the second leg would have to be played on the moon such is the fans' behaviour when they play each other. As they do this weekend. Popcorn at the ready.

The victim culture is something that's been associated with Celtic for a long time and now, rapidly increasingly so, Rangers. And, as you say, little interest in accountability. I saw it first hand on Saturday in the pub when speaking about the UEFA sanction with a Rangers fan. He couldn't say more than two sentences without mentioning Celtic. Time and time again I had to remind him that it's not about them, and time and time again it was part of his defence.

Religious history obviously plays a big part but for a long time that's carried by the football clubs and not the church. The football keeps the history alive. Another defence by both clubs - particularly around religious and politically-motivated singing - is that it's part of their culture and heritage. Well, that can change...

Found a couple of interesting articles contrasting the approach of the two football associations. I like how Sweden has decided to do something, as opposed to nothing:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37547997

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-record/20190305/283055530715091
 

rockstrongo

World Cup Winner
25 August 2006
Sweden
Hammarby
Ah. Well I'm certain they'd be kept apart in the group stage by UEFA rules and I think after that it could happen by chance. If UEFA were to punish clubs relative to the crime then the second leg would have to be played on the moon such is the fans' behaviour when they play each other. As they do this weekend. Popcorn at the ready.

The victim culture is something that's been associated with Celtic for a long time and now, rapidly increasingly so, Rangers. And, as you say, little interest in accountability. I saw it first hand on Saturday in the pub when speaking about the UEFA sanction with a Rangers fan. He couldn't say more than two sentences without mentioning Celtic. Time and time again I had to remind him that it's not about them, and time and time again it was part of his defence.

Religious history obviously plays a big part but for a long time that's carried by the football clubs and not the church. The football keeps the history alive. Another defence by both clubs - particularly around religious and politically-motivated singing - is that it's part of their culture and heritage. Well, that can change...

Found a couple of interesting articles contrasting the approach of the two football associations. I like how Sweden has decided to do something, as opposed to nothing:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/37547997

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-record/20190305/283055530715091
Good points on the Celtic v Rangers.
I would say we've had a good dialogue with SEF (Swedish Elite football league "owners") for quite a long time,they're easy to access,had a long discussion with their boss a few months back.
The police demanded that the standing would be reduced,and that clubs would pay for the policing, obviously that would hit the smaller clubs hard,and they know that,so they put pressure on them so they put pressure back in us.

The thing is,Swedish supporter culture is a large movements and quite trouble free,but what the police are after is the pyro (flares) their forbidden,and the only way to get us to stop using them is to try to get us with something else (increased cost of policing)

They even fabricated their own evidence regarding that flairs are toxic,claiming that they've done test themselves,and also ordering a test made by the European supporters Union.
Here's the kicker mate,The European supporters Union responded with,A it's not toxic and B the police hasn't ordered any test from them,and we're wondering why they were lying.

So that our relationship with the police over here ,quite destructive.
When it all broke lose (the police lying etc) we had full backup from SEF.
What the police are doing is trying to catch people burning flairs,which is fineable offense,like trying to catch people riding bicycles without a helmet,with a SWAT team.
Insane behaviour from them really
 

Stan

Allez les Lionceaux !!!
12 September 2002
THe biggest football club ever?​
How often don’t you hear players saying that the club they joined, has always been the club of their dreams? There are even players that claim that every club they join was their childhood favourite clubs. Eden Hazard left Chelsea for Real Madrid, because as a child he was a Real Madrid (and Arsenal) fan. There are lots of players who make the same claim. Is Real Madrid the biggest football club in the world? Looking at their trophy cabinet, it’s very hard to disagree. But i personally do disagree rather strongly.

To be honest, i don’t like Real Madrid, because i have this weird trait that i dislike perennial winners. But that is not the only reason. Real Madrid became the nig club they are because they attracted the best player in the world in the 1950’s: Alfredo Di Stefano. That transfer was a hold-up. Di Stefano was destined to go to Barcelona, but generalissimo Franco, the Spanish dictator decided otherwise and DI Stefano went to Real Madrid. The fact that the club was supported and favoured by a vicious dictator and even more recently has got some (illegal) support from the communidad de Madrid disqualifies them for me as biggest club ever. Of course that is only my totally biased opinion.

But perhaps there is a more objective way to look at things. A few years ago football magazine FourFourTwo made a ranking of the biggest football clubs ever and came to the same conclusion as me. So perhaps my opinion is that outlandish after all.

AJAX

To me there is no doubt whatsoever. Ajax is the biggest football club in the world ever. Is it because of their trophy’s? Not really. To me Ajax is the club with the biggest legacy or influence in the world.

Until the ‘60’s Ajax was a very ordinary club that wasn’t even the biggest Dutch club. And then somethin happened. Totaal voetbal. Visionary coach Rinus Michel had the luck to have an outstanding crop of players at his disposal: Jaak Swart (later Johnny Rep), Piet Keizer, Ruud Krol, Arie Haan, Gerrie Muhren (my personal favourite, the keeppie ups at Benrabeu for example), Johan Neeskens and of course Holland’s best player ever Johan Cruijff. This was a generation of exceptional players who had also very outspoken and strong opinions on the way football should be played. At the beginning of the ‘70’s this team won 4 ‘Champions Leaugues’ (it was called EC I by that time) in a row and then the players went to other clubs to earn lots of money. Michels, Cruijff and Neeskens went to Barcelona and El Salvador Cruijff won the title for Barcelona for the first time in a long time.

Later Michels became the coach of the Dutch team that played fantastic football at the 1974 WC but that was beaten after a seks scandal that never happened. That team (the best of Ajax combined with Feyenoord, PSV and Anderlecht) was beaten by Beckenbauer’s West-Germany, but they were already beaten by the German tabloïd Bild and by their wives before one ball in that final was kicked. Cruijff would stay home for the next World Cup in Argentina. The official reason was a dispute about shoe sponsors and money, but the real reason was Dani, his wife. Dani never really believed that Johan and his team mates did in fact not swim naked with young girls in their hotel swimming pool in 1974 and she said she would leave Johan it went to Argentina. Robbie Rensenbrink was the star of the team that once again lost the final against the organizing nation.
But let’s focus on Ajax again. That 60’s and early 70’s team left a legacy that shaped modern football. First off all there was the Ajax youth system. Their academy was a real conveyor belt of outstanding football talent, with dozens of future stars. Nowadays the academy is knowsn as De Toekomst (The Future, what a great name). It produced players like Van Basten, Vanenburg, Rijkaard, Bergkamp, father and son Kluivert, the brothers De Boer, Danny and his son Daley Blind, Davids, Arnold Muhren, Huntelaar, Frenkie De Jong and de Ligt. They are all Dutch players but also attracted very young foreign players that they developed into stars: Jari Litmanen (imo the one who came closest to Cruijff, very underestimated), Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Vermaelen, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Kanu, Finidi George, Moussa Dembele and others. Everybody who reads this article will be able to add players that i have forgotten to mention.

But the leagcy is much bigger than ‘merely’ developing fantastic players. Barcelone took over the idea of building an academy and other clubs did the same. Ajax was the first club to embrace this model.

Ajax is also a club with a very recognizable playing system that is played by all the youth teams and the first team. Every single Ajax team from the five year olds to the team that played CL semi-final plays 4-3-3 and this is still the same (but perfected) style of Totaal Voetbal. Barcelone took over this style of football and countless other bog teams did the same. Without Ajax, the Arsenal invincables would never have been. Wenger himself was the first to admit that Ajax, Cruijff and Barcelona had a major influence on all he did. Pep Guardiola’s teams at Barcelona, Munchen and Manchester City have all embraced Ajax’ philosophy.

Is there another club that has the same legay as Ajax? Arigo Sacchi’s AC Milan team might come close, but they might also be influenced by Ajax’s playing system and philosophy and two of their star players (Van Basten and Rijkaard) are Ajax youth products.

Ajax really deserve more credit. I hope they can win another CL to add to their 4 previous ones.
 

Stan

Allez les Lionceaux !!!
12 September 2002
Just read a phenomenal interview with Toby Alderweireld in Belgian magazine Knack. I will translate some excerpts because it sheds a different ligth on professional football players. This interview was taken just after the 2-7 match against Bayern Munchen in the CL.

Courtesy of Knack number 43 -2019 page 104 - 107.

"Lots of people want to be a professional football player because they think that then they will enjoy life more. I often have the opposite feeling, i'm convinced that people with an 'ordinary' life enjoy life more than i do. I'm gratefully to be a professional football player because football brought me to places where i would never have been otherwise, but i want to show theo other side of being a professional football player."

When he was 15 years old he left Antwerp for Amsterdam, for Ajax' youth academy (strange that i post this on the same day as the Ajax article above).

"Initially i was over the moon because i could play for this massive club. But i t turned out that once i was living in Amsterdam, i became homesick. As a 15 year old you step on your own on a train to Amsterdam and you realize that you will be on your own for the next years. It scared the hell out of me. I had to go to a school in the Bijlmer (a very rough neigbourhood) and i hardly had the courage to talk to other people. The first sentence i uttered was with a Flemish accent and the guy i talked to, started laughing. At that moment my whole body screamed: "I don't want this, i want to go home." I felt lost in Amsterdam and it never really changed, it got a litle bit better but basically i hated it. It was not Amsterdam, it was me. Jan Vertonghen and Thomas Vermaelen had a similar carreer and they really loved Amsterdam.

"Ajax is a fantastic club, but i would never again move to Amsterdam as a 15 year old. I'm convinced i would have reached the top level following another path too."

"Since i was 10 years old, it occurred that i was talented an everything had to give in for football. You ahrdly see your friends anymore and that hurts. My brother was my best friend, when we were young we did everything together. From one day to another i was gone, out of his life. He suffered because of it, i feel guilty about that."

"I never did it to become famous, i don't care about acknowledgement. I still remeber something Jim Carey said: "Everybody should become rich and famous in order to realize that it all means nothing."

"I can never relax in my head. When i'm on holiday i'm thinking about next season, next season should be better. I can't drink or eat what i want because i can't put on weight, that is not acceptable for me as a professional football player at top level."

"At top level football, your team mates are your rivals. There isnb't much pity or compassion for players who underperform or have a bad patch. There are only 11 players on the pitch and at the end of the day, it's each for himself. That has hampered me now and then. I'm a team player and i want to be friends with everybody.

"Social media have made football more bleak".

His Twitter account is run by a PR-company, why?

"Fans expect you to communicate right after matches, i can't do that. The problem with football is that for some people football is totally dominating their life. They loose perspective. Imagine that i mess up and my team looses because of that. I can assure you that it hurts me enormously. It is possible that i feel depressive for 3 hours. You can't tweet that, because it will be used against you. Imagine now that after being depressive for those 3 hours, i decide to game on the Playstation to loosen up and that i decide to publish a picture of that. People will not understand and will send me messages that i have some nerve to game after i have done something stupid on the pitch...In order to avoid situations like that, i use a PR-company for my Twitter account."

About transfers:

"People have the wrong impression about transfers. Most transfers are a spur of the moment decision. They just happen.

About friends in football:

"Do i have friends in football? More or less, yes. At the level where i'm playing it becomes a business, every player is company. WIth Jan (Vertonghen) it is different. He is a real friend we've been through a lot together (they played more than 300 matches together). Jan and i , we help each other through a match. Perhaps that is the reason why managers want us together in teams."

About Spurs bad patch:

"I don't know what is wrong. We lost a few times narrowly, you slowly loose confidence...bad luck, brings more bad luck, every football player is well aware of that. Barely 4 months ago we played the final of the CL, it is not possible that suddenly Spurs can't play football anymore."

Alderweireld had a chance to equalise in the WC semi-final against France, but Hugo Lloris had a good save to deny him. The journalist asks him if they have talked about it afterwards.

"It may seem weird, but we never talked about it afterwards. For me it felt inappropriate. It was his moment, his big success, it would be inappropriate to talk about how i felt. I n the end i decided to let it go and don't talk about it with him."

About that third place in the WC:

"People in Brussels where over the moon, but for us it was failure".

This interview should be translated integrally in English (and a better translation than mine). Very interesting and moving. Alderweireld also wants to set up a charity for childeren that are bullied. Interesting guy.
 

Stan

Allez les Lionceaux !!!
12 September 2002
it's 2019 and there are people who still believe the Franco non-sense.
Is that the only reaction you have?
I wasn't writing about Real Madrid, i was writing about Ajax.

Santiago Bernabeu had close links with Franco. Just do an unbiased research and you will find plenty of evidence about the links Real Madrid had with Franco and how Franco used Real Madrid for propaganda purposes.
 

jihado86

Attacking Midfielder
10 July 2008
Tunisia
Real Madrid
Is that the only reaction you have?
I wasn't writing about Real Madrid, i was writing about Ajax.

Santiago Bernabeu had close links with Franco. Just do an unbiased research and you will find plenty of evidence about the links Real Madrid had with Franco and how Franco used Real Madrid for propaganda purposes.

I did all the researches a decade ago and it's all lies based on fallacies.
 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
Just read a phenomenal interview with Toby Alderweireld in Belgian magazine Knack. I will translate some excerpts because it sheds a different ligth on professional football players. This interview was taken just after the 2-7 match against Bayern Munchen in the CL.

Courtesy of Knack number 43 -2019 page 104 - 107.

"Lots of people want to be a professional football player because they think that then they will enjoy life more. I often have the opposite feeling, i'm convinced that people with an 'ordinary' life enjoy life more than i do. I'm gratefully to be a professional football player because football brought me to places where i would never have been otherwise, but i want to show theo other side of being a professional football player."

When he was 15 years old he left Antwerp for Amsterdam, for Ajax' youth academy (strange that i post this on the same day as the Ajax article above).

"Initially i was over the moon because i could play for this massive club. But i t turned out that once i was living in Amsterdam, i became homesick. As a 15 year old you step on your own on a train to Amsterdam and you realize that you will be on your own for the next years. It scared the hell out of me. I had to go to a school in the Bijlmer (a very rough neigbourhood) and i hardly had the courage to talk to other people. The first sentence i uttered was with a Flemish accent and the guy i talked to, started laughing. At that moment my whole body screamed: "I don't want this, i want to go home." I felt lost in Amsterdam and it never really changed, it got a litle bit better but basically i hated it. It was not Amsterdam, it was me. Jan Vertonghen and Thomas Vermaelen had a similar carreer and they really loved Amsterdam.

"Ajax is a fantastic club, but i would never again move to Amsterdam as a 15 year old. I'm convinced i would have reached the top level following another path too."

"Since i was 10 years old, it occurred that i was talented an everything had to give in for football. You ahrdly see your friends anymore and that hurts. My brother was my best friend, when we were young we did everything together. From one day to another i was gone, out of his life. He suffered because of it, i feel guilty about that."

"I never did it to become famous, i don't care about acknowledgement. I still remeber something Jim Carey said: "Everybody should become rich and famous in order to realize that it all means nothing."

"I can never relax in my head. When i'm on holiday i'm thinking about next season, next season should be better. I can't drink or eat what i want because i can't put on weight, that is not acceptable for me as a professional football player at top level."

"At top level football, your team mates are your rivals. There isnb't much pity or compassion for players who underperform or have a bad patch. There are only 11 players on the pitch and at the end of the day, it's each for himself. That has hampered me now and then. I'm a team player and i want to be friends with everybody.

"Social media have made football more bleak".

His Twitter account is run by a PR-company, why?

"Fans expect you to communicate right after matches, i can't do that. The problem with football is that for some people football is totally dominating their life. They loose perspective. Imagine that i mess up and my team looses because of that. I can assure you that it hurts me enormously. It is possible that i feel depressive for 3 hours. You can't tweet that, because it will be used against you. Imagine now that after being depressive for those 3 hours, i decide to game on the Playstation to loosen up and that i decide to publish a picture of that. People will not understand and will send me messages that i have some nerve to game after i have done something stupid on the pitch...In order to avoid situations like that, i use a PR-company for my Twitter account."

About transfers:

"People have the wrong impression about transfers. Most transfers are a spur of the moment decision. They just happen.

About friends in football:

"Do i have friends in football? More or less, yes. At the level where i'm playing it becomes a business, every player is company. WIth Jan (Vertonghen) it is different. He is a real friend we've been through a lot together (they played more than 300 matches together). Jan and i , we help each other through a match. Perhaps that is the reason why managers want us together in teams."

About Spurs bad patch:

"I don't know what is wrong. We lost a few times narrowly, you slowly loose confidence...bad luck, brings more bad luck, every football player is well aware of that. Barely 4 months ago we played the final of the CL, it is not possible that suddenly Spurs can't play football anymore."

Alderweireld had a chance to equalise in the WC semi-final against France, but Hugo Lloris had a good save to deny him. The journalist asks him if they have talked about it afterwards.

"It may seem weird, but we never talked about it afterwards. For me it felt inappropriate. It was his moment, his big success, it would be inappropriate to talk about how i felt. I n the end i decided to let it go and don't talk about it with him."

About that third place in the WC:

"People in Brussels where over the moon, but for us it was failure".

This interview should be translated integrally in English (and a better translation than mine). Very interesting and moving. Alderweireld also wants to set up a charity for childeren that are bullied. Interesting guy.
I thank you so much for taking the time to translate that!! :APPLAUD:
Me, being a romantic football fan, not liking how this whole “business” is evolving... I like to read those “heart warming” stories.
It reminds me, and I love that, how it all started and money wasn’t the main thing. Football was!!

Maybe I’m kinda lost today, in this football world we have right now, but those stories (the one you translated) and my own memories and experiences hold me down. Keep me grounded. And i never wanna loose that feeling...!!! I want to be a regular football fan. For the sport itself (and what it brings with it) and not for the business monster it has become!!

Wish I could get that out more detailed. But you get me. ;)

Edit: if only I could give more than one like!!! Man!! Thank you again!!! :WORSHIP:
 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
Happy New Year, you evo-webbies...! :BYE:

Still in recovery mode from last night, I’m happy there is nothing to do today but relaxing. :D

Some football on tv and some meaty dinner later. Sounds like a plan without being one. :D

What fixtures are you having in focus for today?
58A6C848-4D3A-4C3D-8386-FF3F6CD67E35.jpeg
...20 min. to go.
 

Calvin

Premiership
5 December 2008
Des Moines, IA
FC BARCELONA ❤
I thought I can't make it to work this afternoon. After the game, I just sit, smoke a cigarette and my in head...everything just blank. Like...damnnnn
 
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Flipper the Priest

Hellow Mum
15 July 2003
Aberdeen
As a neutral I prefer this Champions League format. Central venue, quick fire, one-off games. Real summer tournament vibe and I'd like that to continue.

It'd be a shame to take it away from real, local fans but they stopped mattering a long, long time ago. That is wrong, but it's not going to be right any time soon.

Of course, this enforced model isn't as profitable and won't continue.
 

fd1972uk

---------------------
9 January 2002
Glasgow
Celtic
Yeah I like the one off game too.

Only problem I see is the travel involved.,but the one off games are far better. Gate money for teams is also an issue especially for the smaller teams who would make the knockout stages, losing home gate receipts.


FD
 

Stan

Allez les Lionceaux !!!
12 September 2002
I also like it. But it advantages clubs like PSG, clubs with lots of star players who are not a real team. With be and away matches, PSG never reaches the final.
 
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