The Holding Midfielder Role.

phrase

Tactician
12 December 2002
Little Mancunia
Better known as the 'Makelele' role these days.I was wondering about this and something came into mind.The 'Makelele' role is just a sweeper playing in midfield! Isnt this true? The player just sits infront of the defence line,reading the game,breaking up play and distributes supply to the people infront of him.I mean,hasnt any club tried this before? I know natural sweepers are rare these days,the best and last sweeper in my knowledge was Mathias Sammer...however he was better known as the 'Libero' or the attacking sweeper as they say.What do you guys think? Is the 'Makelele' role actually a sweeper playing in midfield? I bet Claude himself would make a superb sweeper but I think he is too short :lol: ,hahaha.Discuss please,cheers.
 

PLF

Legend
2 August 2004
The most important position in current state of football in my opinion!!Simply no team with a good or top class DMF will win the biggest prize anymore I feel.

I also would say it's a midfielder sitting deeper and cutting out passes (last line of defence before actual defence-line), making tackles and usually playing it short to other more creative team-mates. However of course when you combine these nice defensive set of skills/awareness with also good touch on the ball, good vision/passing, two-footedness, strong and aggressive and tall then you get a real impressive package like Mahamadou Diarra!

I know what you're saying but I'd say the DMF role is more than a defender/sweeper playing in front of the 4 defenders in midfield but more like a real "midfielder" but one who is more defensive-oriented and has been ordered to do more defensive work and sit deeper and not commit forward too much and basically clean up the trash and then distribute from there.
 

IceMan_Bergkamp

Total Football
9 December 2002
London, Toronto
Arsenal
Beckenbaur was the man... cleaned up everything.

More recently, i thought Patrick Andersson was class.

Swedish centre-back Patrik Andersson plays a pivotal role in Bayern Munich's double triumph in the Champions League and Bundesliga last season and before he has time to reflect on producing the best football of his career, his club promptly sell him to Barcelona for œ5million.

No wonder Bayern's Stefan Effenberg spoke out when he heard the club were open to offers for Andersson. 'I wouldn't offload him,' he said. 'I was amazed. He showed his high class last season.'

The case for retaining Andersson's aerial power, physical strength and organisational qualities should have been irresistible. After all, Bayern's rearguard had been seriously under-achieving before the Swede was incorporated on a regular basis during the second half of the campaign. He also entered Bayern folklore as scorer of the injury-time free-kick equaliser at Hamburg which clinched the Bundesliga title on the last day of the season.

Andersson was at his peak and a logical choice as the best libero in Germany when Kicker magazine compiled its rankings.

Effenberg was not the only Bayern player to recognise the Swede's contribution. 'Andersson turned things around for us,' said defender Thomas Linke. 'It's unbelievable how well he can read a game and choose the right option. He knows exactly what has to be done.'

Bayern general manager Uli Hoeness claimed that the move was prompted by Andersson, who was one of the club's lowest earners. But many believe Bayern could have done much moreto retain him.

The fact remains that they have gambled in letting him go. Coach Ottmar Hitzfeld may have a number of options for the role of defensive co-ordinator but none looks foolproof. Jens Jeremies, Ciri Sforza and Pablo Thiam, the new signing from Stuttgart, are all arguably better in midfield, while ex-Leverkusen defender Robert Kovac does not have Andersson's authority or strategic feel.
 

denirobob

IBERIAN PRIMERA
28 June 2002
Henley, Oxfordshire
Very intersting dicussion this lads.

I think it would be quite nice to get a thread going on the merits/evolution of the varying playing syles over the years.

I picked up the latest World Soccer mag yestterday and it's got a good article on Argentina & Riquelme, and how that type of midfielder is being eclipsed in the modern game. e.g. athletic midfielders pick the ball up and run, instead of standing still surveying their options therby closing down their own space etc..

db
 

Stringer Bell

Banned
12 February 2005
London
Doesn't Di Baggio (Brescia) play this position?

denirobob said:
I picked up the latest World Soccer mag yestterday and it's got a good article on Argentina & Riquelme, and how that type of midfielder is being eclipsed in the modern game. e.g. athletic midfielders pick the ball up and run, instead of standing still surveying their options therby closing down their own space etc..
Yeah i read about that.

I noticed in EPL their isn't even one player who plays that role. Maybe Dunn, but B. City play him on the left for some reason, or as a CMF.
 
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gerd

Retired Footballer
8 January 2002
Over the moon
KRC Genk, Spurs
Makelele is superb in that role, i think he's one of the best players in the world but he's never mentioned when awards or "world teams" are choosen (which is rather stupid).

Arie Haan and Johan Neeskens used to be superb in that role but not in the "timid" way Makelele does this. Their style was much more physical.

I can't see any other players like Makelele, maybe Ardiles but i think he was much more offensive oriented...oh and come to think of it, one of my all-time favourites and the player responsible for my Argentina-mania: the great Redondo....
 

Stringer Bell

Banned
12 February 2005
London
Makelele was being payed the lowest salary in the Real Madrid team during 02/03 and he was the best player in the team at that time! Real madrid woudn't of won the league or got to the semi of the CL if it wasn't for him.
 

denirobob

IBERIAN PRIMERA
28 June 2002
Henley, Oxfordshire
Stringer Bell said:
Doesn't Di Baggio (Brescia) play this position?


Yeah i read about that.

I noticed in EPL their isn't even one player who plays that role. Maybe Dunn, but B. City play him on the left for some reason, or as a CMF.
perhaps Benayoun at West Ham ? mate
 

RuneEdge

Silent Assassin
1 October 2003
Manchester United
phrase said:
Better known as the 'Makelele' role these days.I was wondering about this and something came into mind.The 'Makelele' role is just a sweeper playing in midfield! Isnt this true? The player just sits infront of the defence line,reading the game,breaking up play and distributes supply to the people infront of him.I mean,hasnt any club tried this before? I know natural sweepers are rare these days,the best and last sweeper in my knowledge was Mathias Sammer...however he was better known as the 'Libero' or the attacking sweeper as they say.What do you guys think? Is the 'Makelele' role actually a sweeper playing in midfield? I bet Claude himself would make a superb sweeper but I think he is too short :lol: ,hahaha.Discuss please,cheers.
I think you're right. Not much left to discuss really. :lol:
 

PLF

Legend
2 August 2004
Pirlo is pure quality no doubt but he's not your traditional "The holding midfielder aka DMF" that Phrase started the thread about that's why I don't think it's proper to compare him with other DMF's like "Makelele" and mention cuz it's different types of players and we only wanted to talk about the real "Makelele role" aka Holding midfielder players.

Because Milan's tactics are a bit unorthodox and cool in sense that they don't have their more defensive/tough tackler DMF who is not that creative but rather they put an Ex-AMF even SS very creative and intelligent Pirlo in the DMF role in front of back 4 and have him get ball there and distribute. Not in same way that other DMF's distribute because they usually get ball and pass short to a more creative team-mate but Pirlo sits deeper than his real role as a CM so he can orchestrate things from the back which is effective and then they had Gattuso on the right like a diamond midfield right though not a out and out right winger who is supposed to actually do the defensive-tackling work that other DMF's do who sit where Pirlo does.

So it's something that hasn't really been done all that much recently but Ancelotti has done and worked out great thus far by putting a non-traditional DMF in that position, knowing he's creative and great passer, give him the freedom to get ball early and distribute from there while putting your more Real "DMF" on right of a diamong midfield with responsibilties of a real DMF.

It's unorthodox, rare and cool in my opinion and has worked out very well thus far although not as great most recently but that's because after a while if you don't change tactics, the opposition know better what to do now against it than the first few times they saw it.
 
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Amsterdammer

League 2
22 February 2006
Amsterdam
Ajax & Barcelona
Davids with Rijkaard in 95' was the best midfield. Davids was the guy who filled all the wholes and Rijkaard was the great leader telling his mates (Davids Litmanen Seedorf) where to run too and has a great overview. With these two on your midfield then your team is complete for 80% ;)
 

PLF

Legend
2 August 2004
Hahahha agree Amsterdamer lol
and yeah Ernestito, Pepe Guardiola was amazing! :)
 

phrase

Tactician
12 December 2002
Little Mancunia
Ahh yess Pepe Guardiola! He was one of the best in that position too,plus his deliveries are like lazer targeted,always on point.I've heard of Patrik Andersson but where is he now and how old is he? I agree with PLF,Andrea Pirlo is something different,a natural central midfielder but playing deeper.With the vision and passing skills he has,he leaves the dirty job for Gattuso.The other players that I could think of that plays in the Makelele role in the EPL are Scott Parker and Momo Sissoko(Superb IMO).
 

pk9

Did you Say BOOTS - Pk
9 January 2004
in the boots thread
Lille, de oranje!
Amsterdammer said:
Davids with Rijkaard in 95' was the best midfield. Davids was the guy who filled all the wholes and Rijkaard was the great leader telling his mates (Davids Litmanen Seedorf) where to run too and has a great overview. With these two on your midfield then your team is complete for 80% ;)

101% agree roll back the years!


wot of emerson at juve, he does a lot of midfeild cleaning up, fancies abit of the offensive sometimes
 

Sabac Red

Premiership
22 November 2002
The best player in that role for me had to Didier "The water carrier" Deschamps. He was a great player.
 

phrase

Tactician
12 December 2002
Little Mancunia
Sabac Red said:
The best player in that role for me had to Didier "The water carrier" Deschamps. He was a great player.
How can I forget him when I came up with this thread.Yes,Deschamps revels in this role.Current other players playing this position are Rio Mavuba,Didier Zokora and Javier Mascherano.No fancy skills whatsoever,break up play and plays the simple ball.Keeping it nice and simple.Come to think of it,its very essential to have this player type in all teams these days considering the speed of the game now.Someone is needed to just linger just below the centre circle and clean up.
 

Big Boss

KJH = The Hunter!
23 July 2003
The Netherlands
Ajax & Strasbourg
Hedwiges Maduro of Ajax is a really big prospect for this position. He can play both as a DMF, and as a CB that comes into the midfield (like Rijkaard and Blind did in the golden years of ajax) He is big and strong, but can also dribble pretty good.
 

Milanista

Mangiamoli!
Staff
19 December 2002
London & Milan
AC Milan
I think he is a little underrated, but Vogel does the job well. He doesnt do anything fancy, always looks for the simple action.
 

phrase

Tactician
12 December 2002
Little Mancunia
The thing is,Makelele is a natural in this role,hes made to make this role important.He is the best currently.Jean Makoun was a striker converted into the DMF role,kinda like Alan Smith.United is lookin to sign Jean Makoun too.Is Hedwiges Maduro a natural DMF?
 

PLF

Legend
2 August 2004
@Phrase, you're forgetting about the best and most complete DMF in world in my opinion right now, Mahamadou Diarra who Lyon would break without same way Chelsea would without Mak and any other great team would without their most important player, I'm talking about the man playing DMF role.

Vogel is indeed much less mentioned in media compared to his good skills and does his job very quietly and efficiently.

And of course Emerson is pure class! one of the best DMF's right now with Makelele and M. Diarra.

Maduro is one of Ajax and Holland's big prospect like Big Boss said and can become class in DMF position which I prefer for him a lot more than center of defence.
Doping said:
What's your opinion on Petit, PLF?
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showpost.php?p=588118&postcount=1440

Posted December 14th. 8)

Remember if "Aggression" looks too low to you, it's not a mistake it's because most people still don't know what "Aggression" does or mean in this game because it's not obvious and a bad choice of name by Konami for this attribute.

But if you read the passage that comes with it as well as updated stats, it'll make sense and you'll have real Petit fighting and giving 110% everytime you play with Benfica ;)
 
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