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WE/PES Biggest Flaw - discussion

Mauras

Premiership
7 October 2002
It's usual to see people complain about this and than when a new version pops in. It's the same every year, and may i say.. natural and understandable in a game that drives a lot of passion.

After some time playing with PES and WE this year I have to once again elect the same flaw as the biggest and less understandable IMO:

The advantage of analog over d-pad.

It's already weird to see a game accept 2 times of directional controls, it's something we don't see that often in the games industry. But worse than accepting it (in fact it's not bad, it's good that a game allows the user to pick the most convenient means of control) is making it different ingame.

This has been a trademark since PES wen't analog, but it's becoming worse. Analog delivers better player reaction, better shoot direction, more curve in dead ball situations and long balls and better defensive reaction from players than d-pad.

The case becomes worse when we read that Seabass uses... d-pad :).

The direction controls choice should be a matter of convenience and not a matter of advantage. Both control methods should deliver the same response, allowing the user to pick the one their most familiar with.

In fact, when one sees Konami waste time developting crap like animals topping players' heads it's quite amazing to see flaws like this one or the amazing freekick from the midfield taking such an importance in such a marvelous game.
 
7 August 2004
Liverpool
I have to go for the undeveloped ML. I prefer the d-pad for sharpness and close control for my thumb then the analogue so thats not so much an issue for me. Also gameplay flaws i can forgive. Its the fact that we have been playing the same ML for about 3-4 years now and it hasnt changed at all. Improvements have been an better development curve, the new all star teams (wow), the ability to choose what type of team you want to play (castello and co, real team or homebrew) and uhhh.........added cup to the league mode and, uhhhh.........Thats about it isnt it?! If they had kept the same amount of teams/licensed i could understand it a bit more, however with the teams and leagues they now have you could easily make a 6 league ML with full leagues ( the relegation/promotion wil still be a prob but adding different countries teams to fill it up is very bad imo. They could otherwise atleast add another 20 slots to create your won teams so you can make your 2nd division for the country of your choice. And the data argument stated by seabass is a load of bollocks or very poor programming, either way its unacceptable in todays market)
 

embraceuk1

Original Member Since 2001
30 December 2001
Indiana USA (Scottish)
Nottingham Forest
I agree with Tiktiktiktik

I love using the D-Pad used it since ISS on the Megadrive
Having played Fifa 2006 the Masterleague has to be changed.
You cant sell players as you never recive offers, the weather doesnt change.
Even just simple club manager options like being able to change clubs would help.
 

Stan

Allez les Lionceaux !!!
12 September 2002
I think the more experienced players (and i mean the real hardcore freaks) will have the same kind of problem as Mauras.
I'm the next best thing (or at least that's what i like to think) and i also go for the ML. The Ml could be really something special, but Konami have been rather lazy concerning the ML.
Maybe the next gen consoles will make it possible to make more realistic ML structure, but somehow i don't think they will...
 

Mauras

Premiership
7 October 2002
Hi Stan,

It's not so much about harcore fans, it's more related to how much you play against human opponents. I don't get much kick out of solo PES (normal, I play PES for more than 11 years now), I usually do all my playing against humans and that's were the differences between d-pad and analogue pop in.

About the ML.. I quit that 2 versions ago, no use, no fun. And it would be sooo easy making it more fun: imagine a multiplayer ML. simple yet so far...
 
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winning11

Conference
20 July 2005
i think pes5 is a flaw, i just hate the game, and sometimes i just love it. Pes4 gameplay was so much better, smoother. you cant even turn without looking like a truck.
i think the dpad is better for shooting but the analog rules for dribble
 

PLF

Legend
2 August 2004
tiktiktiktik said:
I have to go for the undeveloped ML. I prefer the d-pad for sharpness and close control for my thumb then the analogue so thats not so much an issue for me. Also gameplay flaws i can forgive. Its the fact that we have been playing the same ML for about 3-4 years now and it hasnt changed at all. Improvements have been an better development curve, the new all star teams (wow), the ability to choose what type of team you want to play (castello and co, real team or homebrew) and uhhh.........added cup to the league mode and, uhhhh.........Thats about it isnt it?! If they had kept the same amount of teams/licensed i could understand it a bit more, however with the teams and leagues they now have you could easily make a 6 league ML with full leagues ( the relegation/promotion wil still be a prob but adding different countries teams to fill it up is very bad imo. They could otherwise atleast add another 20 slots to create your won teams so you can make your 2nd division for the country of your choice. And the data argument stated by seabass is a load of bollocks or very poor programming, either way its unacceptable in todays market)
Agreed fully mate.

I mean don't get me wrong there is slighy flaws in gameplay, and other places in game which Mauras has pointed out and some haven't even been pointed out but for me none of them are a big issue except the GODDAMN ML which could be sooooooooo much better yet somehow for some lazy reason, Konami just doesn't want us to do a realistic league with 6 leagues of full 20 teams.

I mean why 16 teams in Div 1 and 8 in div 2??? where did this structure even come from to their brain?? and why keep it year after year when they could've easily done it similar to LEague mode except make players get older/crappier/improve all the stuff they have right now.

I mean it's the structure of ML that bothers me the most and I think it's because it would've been so simple to fix yet they didn't bother and just left it as is even though it's clearly not realistic.
 
G

GoaGuru

Guest
Mauras said:
It's usual to see people complain about this and than when a new version pops in. It's the same every year, and may i say.. natural and understandable in a game that drives a lot of passion.

After some time playing with PES and WE this year I have to once again elect the same flaw as the biggest and less understandable IMO:

The advantage of analog over d-pad.

It's already weird to see a game accept 2 times of directional controls, it's something we don't see that often in the games industry. But worse than accepting it (in fact it's not bad, it's good that a game allows the user to pick the most convenient means of control) is making it different ingame.

This has been a trademark since PES wen't analog, but it's becoming worse. Analog delivers better player reaction, better shoot direction, more curve in dead ball situations and long balls and better defensive reaction from players than d-pad.

The case becomes worse when we read that Seabass uses... d-pad :).

The direction controls choice should be a matter of convenience and not a matter of advantage. Both control methods should deliver the same response, allowing the user to pick the one their most familiar with.

In fact, when one sees Konami waste time developting crap like animals topping players' heads it's quite amazing to see flaws like this one or the amazing freekick from the midfield taking such an importance in such a marvelous game.


dont agree...but anyhow are u doing another classicos patch? The last one rocked!!
 

Mauras

Premiership
7 October 2002
unfortunately:

1 - becoming too busy to take Classicos on.
2 - Few and few helpers for the patch, and it's a patch that demands a loooot.

A promise: if I win Euromillions I'll dedicate my time to, among other things, releasing a proper Classicos every year :).

About the ANALOGUE:

Just tried it out tonight in a six-star Serie A. My impressions:

1 - Imediate posession growth. Possession of about 60% being an usual achievement whatever the opponent.

2 - Imediate Increase in the number of chances and shots (although not getting much results as my aiming and momentum decision is MY OWN flaw)

3 - Imediate response in terms of ball control (seems to stick to feet), shot direction (amazing shots from outside the box with better direction and power), amazing in dead ball situations: better corner kicks and better free kicks.

4 - Better crosses: the men in the box attack the ball with more agressivity.

5 - Speed: now I see why ppl sometimes say that the game is too fast: the games is faster using the analog than d-pad, specially if you play a direct one-two touch football.

Conclusion: D-pad has its beneficts, I'm a d-pad user but PES beneficts ANALOGUE period. ANALOGUE allows a lot more control, options, better aiming, much more curve and overall player reaction.

This is utter ridiculous from Konami. It beneficts some players over others. Why should a d-pad gamer have to change, when it should all come down to a choice of better convenience?
 

Stringer Bell

Banned
12 February 2005
London
PLF said:
Agreed fully mate.

I mean don't get me wrong there is slighy flaws in gameplay, and other places in game which Mauras has pointed out and some haven't even been pointed out but for me none of them are a big issue except the GODDAMN ML which could be sooooooooo much better yet somehow for some lazy reason, Konami just doesn't want us to do a realistic league with 6 leagues of full 20 teams.

I mean why 16 teams in Div 1 and 8 in div 2??? where did this structure even come from to their brain?? and why keep it year after year when they could've easily done it similar to LEague mode except make players get older/crappier/improve all the stuff they have right now.

I mean it's the structure of ML that bothers me the most and I think it's because it would've been so simple to fix yet they didn't bother and just left it as is even though it's clearly not realistic.
Then you wouldn't have Div2...and it'll be a short ML.

What Konami should do is put MORE teams in the game...like Div1 and 2 teams for each country like England, Spain, Holland, Italy, Germany and etc....this should defeintly be possible for WE10/PES6.

All the teams don't have to be lienced because you have patchers and ingame editors.
 

Mauras

Premiership
7 October 2002
MULTIPLAYER my friends. The possibility of running a ML with friends and save it for later on, with eurocups, more stats and individual awards, etc.
 

Stringer Bell

Banned
12 February 2005
London
Professor Nutmeg said:
Or possibly it would be easier to get The Championship, Serie B, Ligue 2, or even the SPL or Portiguese Liga licensed.
Yeah thats what i'm trying to say...get Div1 and 2 teams from each country...like Serie A and B, The Premiership and Championship, Ligue 1 and 2 and etc......
 

Mauras

Premiership
7 October 2002
European Cups.
Regional Cups.
More individual awards and stats (best player of the year, best player of the year per position, based on average, etc).

These options should be added to the normal leagues (including the chance to play eurocups based on league standings). For eg. I like to player leagues (Serie A, La Liga, etc) and would like the chance to play eurocups without necessarely having to play a boring ML.
 

timsmith10000

LEICESTER CITY!
18 August 2003
Leicester
does the bug where you kick off but you havent kicked off happen offline?

That bug is so annoying. Go into a game press x to start, he passes it but everyone is stood still as if they havent taken it yet.
 

Nick Cave

Wrexham fan for my sins...
10 July 2004
Non football league waste land...
Wrexham AFC
All I can say is SWOS had a full league and cup system with a career mode that even included getting international job offers over TEN YEARS ago....... The ML is a pathetic joke and just another way of limiting the longevity of the game so you will buy the next tiny tweaked version 6 months later.. Konami are not interested in making it any better as they have now found a way to get even more money from us suckers no punters no no suckers.. with a seperate manager game that you may be able to play the matches out in PES 5... but hey you'll have to buy two games, amd I bet the maneger side will still be a pile of over cooked
graphic looking c*%p!!!


Bring on the return of Sensi and fingers crossed SWOS!!!
 
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PLF

Legend
2 August 2004
Agree with NC about the whole ML being crap and still not up to what we have 10 years ago in SWOS!
 

Slobber

boycotting PES
3 August 2003
Merseyside, England
Liverpool FC
D-pad, is and always will be the biggest flaw in each WE game as long as it gets used. I could rant on all day, but I've done it so many times, I'm sick of even hearing myself now.
 
A

Artist

Guest
Mauras said:
unfortunately:

1 - becoming too busy to take Classicos on.
2 - Few and few helpers for the patch, and it's a patch that demands a loooot.

A promise: if I win Euromillions I'll dedicate my time to, among other things, releasing a proper Classicos every year :).

About the ANALOGUE:

Just tried it out tonight in a six-star Serie A. My impressions:

1 - Imediate posession growth. Possession of about 60% being an usual achievement whatever the opponent.

2 - Imediate Increase in the number of chances and shots (although not getting much results as my aiming and momentum decision is MY OWN flaw)

3 - Imediate response in terms of ball control (seems to stick to feet), shot direction (amazing shots from outside the box with better direction and power), amazing in dead ball situations: better corner kicks and better free kicks.

4 - Better crosses: the men in the box attack the ball with more agressivity.

5 - Speed: now I see why ppl sometimes say that the game is too fast: the games is faster using the analog than d-pad, specially if you play a direct one-two touch football.

Conclusion: D-pad has its beneficts, I'm a d-pad user but PES beneficts ANALOGUE period. ANALOGUE allows a lot more control, options, better aiming, much more curve and overall player reaction.

This is utter ridiculous from Konami. It beneficts some players over others. Why should a d-pad gamer have to change, when it should all come down to a choice of better convenience?

That´s completly ridiculous... Psycho Flaw mate... There is no difference between player´s reactions, and both Analogue and D-pad have 8 possibly directions. That´s in PES5´s manual dude :) And it´s even on PES 5 guide. I repeat.. psycho flaw.. untrue!
 
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