eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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gabe.paul.logan said:
hm is it me or in 2015 the player ID was a bit more prominent by the cpu regardint the dribbling? also the game isnt that end-to-end? compared to the 2020 vids
all i can remember is i loved the first touch sys in it
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Ahh!! PES 2015!
The PES 2014 successor that tranformed all physics engine goodies to pre canned stiff animations!
Also PES 2015 was the king of linear passing and shooting. I mean there is no soccer game that has more straigthforward passes. The ball travels in perfect straigth rails.
Apart from these, was highly playable and decently enjoyable, with fair player weight.
Technically speaking, a huge step backward in comparison with PES 2014, but much more playable.
 
mattmid said:
Excuse my ignorance on this as barring demos I've only bought one of the recent PES's and not played that much of it. And just to say I am in no way knocking the way you enjoy to play and indeed it's also the different passing assist levels I'm questioning. Isn't this whole thing of different passing assists part of the whole problem of modern PES. Surely this is exactly where player stats that matter should be coming in to play.

You 'play' the game, you decide where you're going to pass and to who, will you run with the ball, play a one-two and so on. BUT the ability of the player you are controlling at that moment should surely be the key factor in how well that attempt to do something comes off. To put it simply and this is why so many still love the old PES's. You decide what to do with the ball, the player's ability decides how well that's going to happen. So surely various levels of pass assist is bypassing the impact of the player's stats.

So with manual passing is it completely ignoring the stats or is it completely taking the stats into account? - and again I haven't played manual so I apologise if I'm missing something. If you were controlling Iniesta or Tony Adams and tried a through ball, is how well they pick out that key pass going to be entirely down to your ability or theirs?
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Hi matt, i think this discussion came up a couple of PES’ ago. Opinion was quite divided.

In my very little time with the newer PES’ (hardly played 2019) i have found that stats don’t make much of a difference whether manual or assisted.

You just have to see the way the CPU plays. Most shots are hard and true. In retro PES you knew if someone was poor at shooting.
 
D_E4pkuXYAEvQMj.jpg:large

major UEFA announcement
Anyone know where this has been taken from?
 
Lami said:
Then why was none of that reflected neither on wenb nor on social media? He definitely didn't show it.
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what did you want him to do? talk about pes 24/7 non stop and have no life? i followed his stuff on wenb (he ran it well after adam content wise) and still do on social media. his love for pes and gaming is there to see, for sure. always came across as genuine and passionate. as someone else said here, did he perhaps react to things a little badly sometimes? sure, no one is perfect. if you don't like him personally (certainly seems like that), fine, keep that to yourself. he clearly tried his best when he was at konami, but konami gonna konami. his reply to someone where he mentioned being told "we do enough for community already" kind of proves that. like he said in the thread on twitter, jeez, leave the guy be and move on.

anyway...

hi all. long time (grumpy) PES fan, like most. needed a place to vent thoughts, so joined up here after hearing it's where mostly likeminded people come. i'll try keep it balanced. no promises though!

thoughts on pes2020 (not calling it efootball) so far are that it looks like a very small upgrade to pes2019, gameplay wise especially. the animations and movement look so robotic still. don't get me started on the ai. beyond a few "new" copy-paste dribbles and first touch bits, behaves almost exactly the same as last in terms of style of play, movement and positioning. guess will have to wait for the demo and play for myself though.

mode wise, the stuff added to master league is what should have added 3-5 year ago and improved on, too late to add in now and try save face. oh and let's not forget myclub. you can bet the game will be heavily focused on that when it's out and in the months after only real positive is visuals are nice enough, but overall i think it's time for a new engine. that said, given konami's track record with pes and moving to new consoles/engines, i desperately fear what might become of the series if this happens.
 
flokiman said:
Please stop deceiving yourselves with excuses like
"its lower difficulty for sure!"
or
"its an early code, its only 60% finished"

PES current engine has issues stitched to its core. They wont get fixed until a total new engine is introduced.
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No one said that the current engine hasn't got issues.
I was referring to the specific example in the gif and from my experience the defenders don't react like this on Superstar.They stick to you and press you without running forward like headless chickens just because you made one trick.
It's a fact that they're doing these trailers on lower difficulties so they can score goals more easily and have the content needed for the trailer.

But that's not the issue here.The main issue is that they choose such a gif to show on their official account and say ''wow look at that'' like they're only focusing on the trick animation and the attack play,but the defensive part of the gif is blatantly bad and they don't even seem to notice that or they don't even care.Like..let's throw a trick animation there and don't care if everything else in the gif looks poor.These people that are in charge in their social media must be totally clueless in terms of football knowledge,since it's not the first time that they post such poor gifs and try to make them look like wow moments.

Also you say that these issues won't get fixed until a new engine is introduced.
Well,i'm one of the most optimistic in here in general about the game,but how do we know this exactly..?
We assume that many things will improve with a new engine,but i don't think anyone here would bet any serious money on it until we see it with our own eyes.I hope this will be the case of course but you never know.
 
I saw this tweet by @Chris Davies, and if he hadn't mentioned PES2019 specifically, I wouldn't even have known it. :LOL: Would've thought it was PES2020, lol, we are saying the exact same things this time.
Shows that last year too, the hype train was similar, and look how it turned out.
 
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I will say one thing:

PESMaster01 said:
Would've thought it was PES2020, lol, we are saying the exact same things this time. Shows that last year too, the hype train was similar, and look how it turned out.
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I would argue the opposite is happening now. In-fact, a member has just announced they're "leaving the forum for a while" because of the (fair, IMO) negativity.

There's very little hype in here. Because we were all burned by 2019's gameplay, and PR lines like "improved transfers" are a literal copy-and-paste from last year (when their own screenshot showed Liverpool selling all their best players before the season started - then photoshopped it to pretend it couldn't happen, let's be blunt).

mattmid said:
@Chris Davies Imagine if you'd said that in pre season with Tranmere and then suddenly in the season they didn't misplace any passes. Wouldn't that be great? :)
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We play Liverpool tomorrow. There will be plenty of misplaced passes from us, and I'll be there to boo and shout "HAVEN'T YOU PLAYED PES, JUST PING-PONG IT".
 
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I would like to ask something. Because I'm probably not be seeing the full picture myself and you may have some insightful views about this.

Given the fact that social media and communication is SO important AND useful nowadays. It's a GREAT tool to know what your customers want from your company.
Whether you are a musician, a band, a software developer company or you design clothes and even game developers, you can use Twitter as a tool, not only to showcase or promote your product but also to know what's expected of you in the future.

Why won't Konami use Twitter polls before or during the brain-storming time for the next game, to gather information about what the fans want in different areas of the game?. Twitter polls are anonymous and at least this way, everybody would be able to see the results.
I'm not talking about those -very questionable- surveys they make us fill every now and then. Nnobody ever knows the outcome of those, and I think that's very wrong.

Wouldn't it be a great sign of respect and interest from Konami/PES towards the fans of all ages, kinds and styles to give us the tool to be able to vote AND see the results publicly displayed?.

Would you like to see Gameplay Sliders in PES 2021?
YES
NO

What would you like to see more content for?
Online
Offline

What did you like more about PES 2020?
Ball Physics
Visual representation (Faces, Stadiums, Kits)
Shooting Variety
Goalkeepers

Those are just the first that came to my mind, but I'm sure they could come up with dozens. Better than mine.

Or maybe they don't that because if they did they wouldn't be able to hide behind the "We take surveys every year and that's not what the majority is interested in" or "We take surveys every year and what you're asking didn't show as one of the priorities, it's down on the list". That I saw when they replied to some people requesting different features.


I'm totally open to an eye-opener answer from you guys that might make me see things differently. Don't be shy...
 
flokiman said:
Hardcore KONAMI fans are a little fracture of KONAMI's customers.
The fact that they do express their complains does not mean anything to Konami.
Here for example how many people are active members? 100? 200? how many do have complaints? 50?
Do you think that konami will put any effort to make 50 customers happy?

The vast majority of PES players would ask for more licenses, stadiums, better online experience.
If i own KONAMI, i would focus on keeping the vast majority happy and not the 100-200-1000 grumpy fans.
(I am one of the most grumpy fan you know)
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It was more the "we already do enough for the community" line that got me. Fucking jokers.
 
Having just played a friend of mine on 2019, I can happily say, if they sort out the the defensive AI team mates I will be fairly happy. I shouldn't have to try and block every pass route myself, I shouldn't have to cut out every through ball myself. my AI team mates should be able to intercept a pass or track a runner without my direct intervention. Just some intelligence in your team mates would be nice. Dump the team mate AI up to superstar level and lets actually have team mates that react properly rather than standing there like idiots while I am frantically trying to cursor change to the full back watching the ball slowly roll past him for the tenth time in the last 5 minutes of through ball spamming.
 
Unfortunately, @Chuny , as good as it sounds in theory, you can tweak any survey to get result you are looking for..

Also - majority does not necessarily represent the best path forward. Not even for us, in general..

Have a look at their twitter page. Its like digging through pile of mud to find a good post with some value to it.
Good ideas comes from few people and those few people would have been lost in a sea of craziness if they started making this type of poles.

What I would like to see (and I said it before to few that are closer to Konami) would be some direct "feedback/ideas" tool on their website. Even email address, which content would later be reviewed by Konami people.
There is good few people around, who could use this type of tool to send a very detailed suggestions, full of examples, clips and pictures.

Yes, there still would be some amount of spam sent there, but I think a tool like this would be a gold mine when it comes to ideas. Easy to collect, segregate, discuss and pass over straight to development team, without having to deal with people on the way. They would still be behind their "safe" wall and at the same time they would be closer to people.
 
Chuny said:
Why won't Konami use Twitter polls before or during the brain-storming time for the next game, to gather information about what the fans want in different areas of the game?. Twitter polls are anonymous and at least this way, everybody would be able to see the results.
I'm not talking about those -very questionable- surveys they make us fill every now and then. Nnobody ever knows the outcome of those, and I think that's very wrong.

Wouldn't it be a great sign of respect and interest from Konami/PES towards the fans of all ages, kinds and styles to give us the tool to be able to vote AND see the results publicly displayed?.
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definitely something konami/pes should do. open and transparent way of getting feedback. only thing is it could be clouded by trolls and the like, but generally think it would show the opinion of fans/community and at least some casuals too. do we think konami would go for it though?

something that be more beneficial would be some kind of official fan/community forum or discord. regular discussion and feedback. still, don't think konami would do it. too scared.
 
Chris Davies said:
I would argue the opposite is happening now. In-fact, a member has just announced they're "leaving the forum for a while" because of the (fair, IMO) negativity.
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Yes, but even if we take the smallest of positive things anyone has said here, it's about the miss-kicks and slow pace. Nothing else. That's why I said it.
 
Chuny said:
Why won't Konami use Twitter polls before or during the brain-storming time for the next game, to gather information about what the fans want in different areas of the game?
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Emroth said:
Unfortunately, @Chuny , as good as it sounds in theory, you can tweak any survey to get result you are looking for..
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I don't think that's part of it at all, that's a bit conspiracy-esque...

Honestly, the developers do not want this input. Look at the surveys we get - they talk about the things they already know they want to work on because (for example) it's cost-effective. The menus, for example, kept coming up in the last PES survey I did. There wasn't much room in the survey to talk about the Master League etc...

Too often we think of devs working on football games as representations of reality or art. What they're working on is something that will make money - out of the most amount of people - and cost the least amount to implement.

That is 100% Konami's business model now - and they've just had their best ever financial year so we'd better get used to it. They are the Mike Ashley of gaming.

What they want to work on, is what makes money - and the answer to that comes from the usage information they harvest, not on what fans say. They won't be dictated to, it's clear.

It's much cheaper to make great faces and please 99% of social media than it is to make career mode have the depth of the old games (where knowledge of each player's strengths and weaknesses is crucial), just for us. You can't market that with a screenshot, or guarantee that it'll be copied-and-pasted onto different websites because "wow have you seen how realistic these faces are". That's instant.
 
I wonder what this years AI disease will be

PES 2016 - low shot spamming no high shots gk unable to save them
PES 2017 - hm I don't remember a blatant issue with AI maybe the OP crossing
PES 2018 - spamming chip balls over the top leading to goals
PES 2019 - low cross goal spamming
 
Emroth said:
Unfortunately, @Chuny , as good as it sounds in theory, you can tweak any survey to get result you are looking for..

Also - majority does not necessarily represent the best path forward. Not even for us, in general..

Have a look at their twitter page. Its like digging through pile of mud to find a good post with some value to it.
Good ideas comes from few people and those few people would have been lost in a sea of craziness if they started making this type of poles.

What I would like to see (and I said it before to few that are closer to Konami) would be some direct "feedback/ideas" tool on their website. Even email address, which content would later be reviewed by Konami people.
There is good few people around, who could use this type of tool to send a very detailed suggestions, full of examples, clips and pictures.

Yes, there still would be some amount of spam sent there, but I think a tool like this would be a gold mine when it comes to ideas. Easy to collect, segregate, discuss and pass over straight to development team, without having to deal with people on the way. They would still be behind their "safe" wall and at the same time they would be closer to people.
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Excuse me for my ignorance but: How do you tweak a poll on Twitter, exactly?

Chris Davies said:
I don't think that's part of it at all, that's a bit conspiracy-esque...

Honestly, the developers do not want this input. Look at the surveys we get - they talk about the things they already know they want to work on because (for example) it's cost-effective. The menus, for example, kept coming up in the last PES survey I did. There wasn't much room in the survey to talk about the Master League etc...

Too often we think of devs working on football games as representations of reality or art. What they're working on is something that will make money - out of the most amount of people - and cost the least amount to implement.

That is 100% Konami's business model now - and they've just had their best ever financial year so we'd better get used to it. They are the Mike Ashley of gaming.

What they want to work on, is what makes money - and the answer to that comes from the usage information they harvest, not on what fans say. They won't be dictated to, it's clear.

It's much cheaper to make great faces and please 99% of social media than it is to make career mode have the depth of the old games (where knowledge of each player's strengths and weaknesses is crucial), just for us. You can't market that with a screenshot, or guarantee that it'll be copied-and-pasted onto different websites because "wow have you seen how realistic these faces are". That's instant.
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I definitely agree.
So we should forget about the "we listen to our fans" slogan they got so used to spread around.
Also, following your chain of thought, if they did take those polls on twitter and they worked on the things the majority want (to some degree) given the results of those polls, wouldn't that be represented in sales the next year?.

I mean, if 80% of the people voted (let's say 200.000 people just to throw a number out) they want Gameplay Sliders and more focus on Offline and more shooting variety... fast-forward 8 months, the first trailer comes out and they showed all those things implemented, wouldn't that be translated in pre-orders or day one purchases?. I know I would because if I voted for certain things and the next thing I see is those things implemented, I would support the company 100% without even thinking twice.
 
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Chris Davies said:
I don't think that's part of it at all, that's a bit conspiracy-esque...

Honestly, the developers do not want this input. Look at the surveys we get - they talk about the things they already know they want to work on because (for example) it's cost-effective. The menus, for example, kept coming up in the last PES survey I did. There wasn't much room in the survey to talk about the Master League etc...

Too often we think of devs working on football games as representations of reality or art. What they're working on is something that will make money - out of the most amount of people - and cost the least amount to implement.

That is 100% Konami's business model now - and they've just had their best ever financial year so we'd better get used to it. They are the Mike Ashley of gaming.

What they want to work on, is what makes money - and the answer to that comes from the usage information they harvest, not on what fans say. They won't be dictated to, it's clear.

It's much cheaper to make great faces and please 99% of social media than it is to make career mode have the depth of the old games (where knowledge of each player's strengths and weaknesses is crucial), just for us. You can't market that with a screenshot, or guarantee that it'll be copied-and-pasted onto different websites because "wow have you seen how realistic these faces are". That's instant.
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And thats one of the reasons I believe tool like this would be effective.
My workplace is a huge corporation as well. Same principles - minimal effort, maximum profits. The only good ideas they ever implemented were from people who did most of the job themselves.

Lets take sliders as an example.
If you created a survey "would you like sliders in Pes?"- i bet you - majority would say No. I would go as far as to say, that its quite possible - answer would still be No, if we did this survey in here - on Evo-Web.

But

If @Chuny (just using him as an example as he is always shouting about sliders) worked on that idea, simplify it, created examples, explain exactly what he meant by it and then persuaded Konami, that its reasonably easy to implement, its a one-of job and it would most likely bring them a huge chunk of new and old fans - they might have said - ok, that seems like an good (and profitable) move to make.

Thats how places like this work. You cant just throw them an idea.. you basically have to do all the work yourself..
 
Chuny said:
Excuse me for my ignorance but: How do you tweak a poll on Twitter, exactly?
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Same as they did last survey. You pair the questions up in a way majority of people will always pick certain answer.
Or you give people 4 options and all 4 of them are equally important, but people have to pick one.
Im not saying they can cheat the results. Im saying they can build it in a way they will get results they want..
 
Emroth said:
Same as they did last survey. You pair the questions up in a way majority of people will always pick certain answer.
Or you give people 4 options and all 4 of them are equally important, but people have to pick one.
Im not saying they can cheat the results. Im saying they can build it in a way they will get results they want..
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But that wouldn't matter. One of the options will always be the most voted. Doesn't matter if it's 80 to 20, or 51 to 49. As a company you'd now have the perfect strategy. Either you please the majority or you work on whatever you want that might end up not pleasing no one, or very few people.

With my method at least you're guaranteed that the majority wins and will (more than probably) buy your game next year as you're giving them what they asked for and "won" legally.
 
Emroth said:
If @Chuny (just using him as an example as he is always shouting about sliders)
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Ouch! That hurt!
I'm merely whispering!
:D

Also, I know for a fact that there are many many many people in here that embrace the idea of sliders, but they either do not post so often or they have just given up on that idea because of Konami...
 
Chuny said:
Ouch! That hurt!
I'm merely whispering!
:D
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I meant no harm, apologies.
Its a good idea and Im with you on it.

But remember Konami guy response to your sliders? Either he was pretending, or he didnt even know what does it mean..
Automatically - idea like this goes in one ear - comes out the other.
The only way to get their attention would be to basically create the whole project for them to read through.

Same goes for @Matt10 - if he could elaborate on his ideas, give them examples and (probably most important) solutions to the issues - there would be much bigger chance for them to listen.

There is a lot of people in here, who have brilliant ideas, simple to implement and would change the game for better.
But twitter and facebook are awful tools to provide proper feedback/suggestions.
 
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