- Thread starter
- #211
papinho81
Champions League
@manmachine great post!
tufkar84
Premiership
- 16 June 2020
This is indeed possible, at least in theory, with simple lines added to the locale.ini file.
They are as follows:
POS_MARKING_CPUAI=99
POS_MARKING_USER=99
and
UCC_MAX_CHASING_PLAYERS=11
UCC_MIN_CHASING_PLAYERS=11
This should have the effect that ALL players on the field mark and occupy space. And can be tweaked AT WILL.
There are many more fields to be edited, and of course you will not find it called like you would expect, but "mining" the gameplay files and testing a lot can get you pretty much ANY result that you want.
TL;DR: To have a midfield and buildup you need some players occupying the right space, not a magical hidden game option. Unless that magical hidden game option is literally something like "Prioritise_blocking_passing_lanes_over_marking_the_GK". Anyway I was kinda stuck with this so I'm no longer testing stuff (I might get back to it) unless someone discovers that we can edit the new tactical system, some of its options are simply too dumb and impactful on gameplay.
I see your point, and I can understand that many more might have the same opinion. What I think we should come to terms with, is the fact that different users might like different behaviors and might prioritize different aspects. This specific pressing issue is not a priority for me for example, but it is for you.
Also, we have to accept that making these changes is not the flip of a switch. One thing might be ruled by several commands, and sometimes a change is not directly possible, but you can tweak a few values somewhere to work around this, and make it look like it.
In your example, yeah, maybe the proposed solutions above will not work, so you might have to take a different route: as you mention, slowing down passes and increasing pass error and control error will make it more difficult for you to get out of the AI pressing with 2 touches.
And I would add that having the CPU with Acceleration +1 or +2 than you will definitely ramp up their aggressiveness.
Counter attacks in spaces (they are part of football) can be nerfed by using the same settings, plus using sliders to tweak how long and how high teams are: make them low and short and they will all park the bus, make them low and long and it will feel a bit more like PES and lines must be worked around one by one (which I prefer).
You can even edit the database to make it so that EVERY team on FIFA presses like Man City. But that wouldn't be fair, because most teams will actually sit back and wait for you.
Final note: the gamplay has many flaws. But with Frosty Editor, the locale.ini file, editing the database and other options, with patience, willingness and a lot of time to edit and test, it is indeed possible to change ANYTHING, to fit ANY preference. (even the curves of the lines of crosses from start to finish, in 10 points, just to mention one).
It's always a matter of balance: should we spend our time rewriting the game, or finding the 4-5 quick tricks that fix the issues we care about, and then actually play the game?
- Staff
- #213
Excellent post, @Rafter84.
I have to admit, on the issue of pressing - I've seen plenty of EPL games (the league I play in on FIFA) over the last few weeks where defenders back off and back off, teams opting to fill the box with defenders rather than press and be caught out.
I love a midfield battle and that's what I've been trying to add back into FIFA (to get rid of the constant counter-attacks) - but that can be acheived by excellent positioning and marking, rather than just pressing the ball-carrier like crazy.
It's all personal preference. There's so much to edit that I always end up playing two matches and going "hm, no I didn't like that one thing" and then spend the next week testing variables. Which is driving me slowly mad.
Luckily, we have this section of the community and I've found myself using everyone in here's work (@papinho81, @Anth James, @manmachine etc.) and finding my gameplay massively improved, in ways I really love. Pap's positioning mod (including some of ManM's discoveries I think) and Anth's v1 ball physics (including some of ManM's pass curve changes I think) have really improved my experience.
I have to admit, on the issue of pressing - I've seen plenty of EPL games (the league I play in on FIFA) over the last few weeks where defenders back off and back off, teams opting to fill the box with defenders rather than press and be caught out.
I love a midfield battle and that's what I've been trying to add back into FIFA (to get rid of the constant counter-attacks) - but that can be acheived by excellent positioning and marking, rather than just pressing the ball-carrier like crazy.
It's all personal preference. There's so much to edit that I always end up playing two matches and going "hm, no I didn't like that one thing" and then spend the next week testing variables. Which is driving me slowly mad.
Luckily, we have this section of the community and I've found myself using everyone in here's work (@papinho81, @Anth James, @manmachine etc.) and finding my gameplay massively improved, in ways I really love. Pap's positioning mod (including some of ManM's discoveries I think) and Anth's v1 ball physics (including some of ManM's pass curve changes I think) have really improved my experience.
manmachine
Premiership
- 22 June 2008
Yeah the last thing I would like to do is edit the db and change all the assigned tactical options/player instructions. Not because it can't be part of a solution for improving the game to my liking, in case I do want to actually play it for fun, but because I'm just interested in figuring out what can actually be tweaked in the gameplay files available. Obviously different people enjoy the game in varying degrees and would prefer fixing different things and in a different way.
I'm just stuck trying to figure out positioning VS the way tactical options are coded because it really keeps me from enjoying all possible match-ups.
To clarify here's another quote straight from the horse's mouth:
So every tactical option introduced last year, imposes some (exaggerated IMHO - and to the detriment of the game) set of behaviors and parameters, that seem to take precedence over other settings. That is tactics have actually become way more rigid, a well known problem with PES funnily enough. So improving marking/positioning is not so straight forward. Do you account for drop back where there is zero pressure but teams keep their shape (this is the best thing about drop back, and perhaps the reason many fut people want it out of the game, lol) or do you account for teams set to use high press but have absolutely no team shape whatsoever half of the time and can't even keep a defensive line?
We can tweak *almost* anything, but I'm after the hidden tactics variables... I'm weird I guess
So where are those "various levels of pressure" according to the pitch notes? If anyone has any clue, it will be a true game changer for me.
(Edit: To add to this. There is a max_distance_from_formation_for_high_press and max_distance_from_formation_for_low_press curves somewhere and even a table mapping tactics to values. I jumped with joy when I saw that file but it doesn't seem to have an effect. But I could be wrong and I hope I am! Maybe it's leftover stuff from the *previous* tactical system in fifa 18).
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- Thread starter
- #215
papinho81
Champions League
Share your testing sessions findings (even if it ends up being placebo or incorrect, we are not here to judge anyone but to learn together) and pick what you want/fits you best, is precisely the original purpose of this thread.
To be useable by others your testing needs to be communicated to others, so taking the extra time to do it is extremely appreciated. Negative results are also welcomed as it will prevent someone else losing his time on the same thing.
Every approach is welcomed.
To be useable by others your testing needs to be communicated to others, so taking the extra time to do it is extremely appreciated. Negative results are also welcomed as it will prevent someone else losing his time on the same thing.
Every approach is welcomed.
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Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
We can tweak *almost* anything, but I'm after the hidden tactics variables... I'm weird I guess
So where are those "various levels of pressure" according to the pitch notes? If anyone has any clue, it will be a true game changer for me.
I've been looking... I have found quite a few files relating to teams, formations, player instructions etc in the legacy explorer, db. Check out some of the files in there (example fifa_ng_db and fifa_nb_db-meta). I have no idea how to read the info or what it's saying...but I'm sure someone much more intelligent than me could figure it out haha. There's information on formation offsets, defensive depth etc. Hope this helps!
Edit: Check out fifa_ng_db, formations. There's also a few other files called 'default_mentalities', 'fieldpositionboundingboxes' and another called 'playerpositionzones' which could be interesting...
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manmachine
Premiership
- 22 June 2008
We need someone who understands how the heck the fifa db works. I know a thing or two about databases but just looking at it, it seems weird/a mess. Every table should have a unique key, and in the case of 'default_mentalities' it's the 'mentalityid' field. Only problem is that there are 4000 entries and i'm pretty sure there are no 4000 tactical options in the game (and it's not even a unique key as the value 4000 is used for many entries). Are there that many teams in the game and it's just assigning options to teams? Hard to tell by just looking.
Anyone knows of a fifa db editor/viewer that works with fifa 20 and has a search function?
- Thread starter
- #218
papinho81
Champions League
I have basic knowledge from db editing but from 16 mostly.
The mentality Ids are likely teams ids. Each team has its own Id even if many might end up being identical.
You can use rdbm20 to export individual tables in txt directly editable in excel and can be imported back with the tool.
I have experience with processing such tables with R to automate the editing process if needed in the future.
manmachine
Premiership
- 22 June 2008
Thanks, really useful info! With that said my final observation looking at the db is this: There is a defensivestyle field with values that range from 0 to 4. These are the different defensive mentalities. 0 is 'drop back' I think, all the way up to 4 which could be 'constant pressure'. Changing the assignments is no solution to anything unless someone thinks they will enjoy the game if every single team uses the same tactic or if a certain tactic should be taken out of the game.
There is no table in the db that uses the defensivestyle as a key and then includes variables that we can tweak (I've searched the database .xml file in a text editor). This is how you would expect a database to be designed. So it's magic stuff hidden elsewhere, if it's in the db, they're doing it in a very obscure way.
(I mean theoretically some other fields named "offset" could contain the values we need, but in that case it defies all database design principles. Repeating data thousands of times when it should be a simple look-up in another table).
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- Thread starter
- #220
papinho81
Champions League
I need extra eyes on this one:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/tohdsb64t4arj62/Tactical_Awareness.fbproject/file
It is the ATTR_TacticalAwarenessWeight variable from the gp_positioning_positioning_runtime file.
Entries 0 to 10 are all decreased to 0.1 instead of from 1 to 0.7
I think it reduces the rigidity to tactical adherence. Players are more often positioned where you would not expect them with less one man marking too. Marking is more about marking the danger man than marking the one man the players is supposed to mark. I think it makes for less stereotypic/rigid actions with less big gaps in the middle of the pitch. Pressing by the like of city feels less like all out of position no brainer.
It is by no means a "best" value but rather a test the effect value. I still find it much more enjoyable than default.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/tohdsb64t4arj62/Tactical_Awareness.fbproject/file
It is the ATTR_TacticalAwarenessWeight variable from the gp_positioning_positioning_runtime file.
Entries 0 to 10 are all decreased to 0.1 instead of from 1 to 0.7
I think it reduces the rigidity to tactical adherence. Players are more often positioned where you would not expect them with less one man marking too. Marking is more about marking the danger man than marking the one man the players is supposed to mark. I think it makes for less stereotypic/rigid actions with less big gaps in the middle of the pitch. Pressing by the like of city feels less like all out of position no brainer.
It is by no means a "best" value but rather a test the effect value. I still find it much more enjoyable than default.
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- Staff
- #221
Gave it a go, not entirely sure. I felt like, in the first half of games, I had more time on the ball to pick passes and work my way up the pitch. But then I also found my own defenders would be more dumb than the AI's (getting caught high and out of a good defensive position often)...!
It also seemed to make secondary defenders even more useless - so many times I would have a defender in a good pass-lane-blocking situation, but he'd just let the ball go past him when he could have intercepted.
But how much of that is this mod, and how much is this game just forcing 1v1 defending? I can't tell...
But it felt better overall, certainly. And there was a lower shot count than I've ever had before!
- Thread starter
- #222
papinho81
Champions League
Thanks for trying Chris. I will keep an eye on this.
I wanted to play with it together with the jockey and the offside line one yesterday but could not find the time.
Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
I used it today for a couple of games. I quite liked it, it did seem to put players in different positions which made for some more unpredictable play. There were moments where I really didn’t have open passing options which I normally would have had quite easily. I had 2 good 20 min matches using it in conjunction with other mods. Hard to tell quite how much of a midfield impact it has on the pressing situation yet, but in general signs so far are good! .... another improvement in general play.
- Thread starter
- #224
papinho81
Champions League
It is also what stood out the most to me.
Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
I wonder if the 'passing lane' files in positioning could be beneficial here. In theory if we could get the AI to be better at evaluating and blocking passing lane options it might help to create more of a midfield to go with this...
Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
Guys, if you can, give this one a go too. Based on @papinho81's tactical awareness test I tried playing with a couple of the passing lane files. gp_positioing_passline_runtime - passlineLaneClearanceForRuns and passingLaneClearanceForSupports. I changed the X axis to 0.1 on all values aside from 0 which was already set to 0. Honestly, I just took a guess with this so as Pap said, this probably isn't the perfect value.
I'd like to see if you guys notice a change, but I 'feel' like there's more thinking required and even less passing lanes open. You guys would know you can drive yourself a bit nuts testing values, so it could be placebo, but I did feel like teams were a little more compact, and it was harder to open teams up. It seemed like the players were all a little closer together on the pitch. I think if you test it, try with a team who doesn't just press, because I think that is a different problem with a different solution!
Edit: Since posting the link I also tried changing the Y axis for both to 0.1 as well - again purely guessing. I'm pretty convinced it's not a placebo, as I'm seeing the amount of shot numbers considerably lower since the change. I feel like there is more of a midfield battle and games are less end-to-end too...I'm using in conjunction with other mods including my v1 ball physics and the foul attempt, and I was starting to see quite a few more fouls in there... If this is all placebo then I think I need to take a break from it all haha.
https://mega.nz/file/NB0EzIgT#oVpDrp3gouVgf27s9EDDuGjL3mUbsFzRYz1JBVPQDvo
I'd like to see if you guys notice a change, but I 'feel' like there's more thinking required and even less passing lanes open. You guys would know you can drive yourself a bit nuts testing values, so it could be placebo, but I did feel like teams were a little more compact, and it was harder to open teams up. It seemed like the players were all a little closer together on the pitch. I think if you test it, try with a team who doesn't just press, because I think that is a different problem with a different solution!
Edit: Since posting the link I also tried changing the Y axis for both to 0.1 as well - again purely guessing. I'm pretty convinced it's not a placebo, as I'm seeing the amount of shot numbers considerably lower since the change. I feel like there is more of a midfield battle and games are less end-to-end too...I'm using in conjunction with other mods including my v1 ball physics and the foul attempt, and I was starting to see quite a few more fouls in there... If this is all placebo then I think I need to take a break from it all haha.
https://mega.nz/file/NB0EzIgT#oVpDrp3gouVgf27s9EDDuGjL3mUbsFzRYz1JBVPQDvo
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Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
...I think it might be placebo🤣🤣🤣
- Thread starter
- #228
papinho81
Champions League
I will try to give it a go this afternoon.
But yeah testing those variable can be tiresome AND boring. There is probably everything to make a good simulation with those files, but they are so many variables likely interacting each others... We should not have to do that in the first place.
Why EA can't release a/several single offline players gameplay(s) like they do for the volta?
- Staff
- #229
Yeah, same feeling here. I keep reaching an "enough is enough" point, then I play FIFA 16 for a while and go "this is good, but it's too fast and janky for me to really relax and enjoy it completely". That's when I head back to fiddling with 20.
I'm sure it makes a good difference (and the passing lanes not being blocked is right up there with my biggest issues with the game, so I'll soon be able to tell you if it's placebo or not)!
I haven't got around to it yet (for the reasons mentioned above) but I'll give it a go soon!
Please don't give up - I wouldn't still be giving 20 a chance now if it wasn't for this thread.
- Thread starter
- #230
papinho81
Champions League
I gave it a go and it has an effect. I ve found it impact the team compactness in term of width defensively. It makes things more congested but I am not sure it affects the gap between the lines.
As for the tactic awareness mod, I am not sure it improves the things... It makes passing slightly less open but I find that sometimes the user defense get split in unrealistic way with the st alone in the box.
I have a curiosity/hate relationship with the game now. Every time I go back to 16 I find myself getting a more complete footy experience, with physicality, fouls, mistakes, many small moments of magic, challenge in a good way, rewarding moments... So many things that I get so rarely with 20.
Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
I'm in exactly the same cycle now as you and @Chris Davies. 16 is a great game and I keep going back to it. It has so many elements that I wish were in 20 to compliment the graphics/overall feel...
Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
I tried to leave the tactical awareness default and up the marking weight instead. It still doesn't seem to impact the midfielders tracking runners into the box. What I can tell from this particular issue is that it's some kind of tactical/zonal problem. The midfielders will just let the opposition run into the box and they'll literally just stop and let them go almost exactly outside the box. It seems as though they're programmed to think that once they run beyond them, they become the 'CBs problem' to mark and not theirs anymore. It's bizarre.
Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
Sorry to keep spamming this thread! That's good to hear it does have an impact on team compactness. I've been reducing some values in 'positioning - runpathblock' with the assumption it may also impact the open passing lanes/build up game. I've played a few games in legendary and I feel again the pitch is much more congested with less space between the players. I played a match just before v Man Utd on legendary and after 65 minutes on a 20 minute match they had only had 1 shot and I'd had maybe 5. I'd never seen a statistic like that before on 20 so there could be some benefit as it did feel like quite a good midfield scrap.
My thinking is if we can reduce the gaps and tighten it all up a little then a) the ai and myself should be forced to be a little more slow in the build up, b) they should make some more errors (probably wishful thinking for this one) and c) there could be more fouls due to the shorter distances between players (which Chris pointed out recently).
I do feel like we might be making some progress...though slowly and annoyingly! I'd love to be able to add in some additional pass freedom too but those values look very difficult.
Just to clarify again, I'm using the following set-up -
- OS V3 sliders
- Reaction time mod
- Defensive line mod
- No scripting mod
- My foul attempt and V1 ball physics
- Pass quality mod
- Passing lanes test
- and now the runpathblock test (link to runpathblock project here - https://mega.nz/file/VRkDAYAT#Q3wE6rDM36_B1_e7aLEtN5qA8je6mVfIsmCM3yuPobA
- Staff
- #234
Giving this a go now!
Just a quick note - always remember to check the conflicts panel. I only mention this because I've just realised that I'd added your "Driven Pass & Ball Physics" (v1) file, then recreated @manmachine's "quality scalar" fix as a separate mod, and they both use the same file - so they clash, and I would have only been getting the effects of one.
I had the same thing with an early positioning file I'd put together too (based on "defenderbadoffside" values), clashing with @papinho81's most recent positioning mod file (based on "tacticalawareness" values).
EDIT: Jeez, it's crazy to me how the game plays so much better with all these fixes. I throw in @paulv2k4's gameplay locale.ini file as well, and when it all comes together, it's really good.
I really am seeing more variety in my attacks because I'm not able to just run through the midfield and/or dribble past all defenders.
My only wishes are that, firstly, the "pass quality scalar" tweaks did more (as I'm not seeing much of a drop in pass accuracy), but the biggie:
I wish, oh I wish, defenders really stuck close to the people they're marking in attacking situations. I've just conceded a few goals to the AI because they've hit an early cross, the striker runs to the ball, but the marking defender is always 6ft away from the striker. Even when I manage to get manual control of the defender, I'm having that "invisible barrier around the striker" issue, bouncing off the protective ring.
But it's a 100% improvement, truly. I'm away for the next week or so, but when I come back (as long as another update hasn't messed everything up) I'll try a tournament out.
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- Thread starter
- #235
papinho81
Champions League
Good catch about the conflicts! I absolutely didn't take it into account in my last testing.
I assumed files were mixed but no, the last one overwrite the first ones.
Also would you mind listing the all these? I would like to give it a go.
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- Thread starter
- #236
papinho81
Champions League
ATTR_DefenderLoseHisAttackerDuration and Rate from the gp_positioning_positioning_runtime file is probably the variables to look at for that.
- Staff
- #237
The top file is just @paulv2k4's latest realism mod (to make Career Mode more realistic, not the gameplay one - BUT I DO use his gameplay file's locale.ini).
Chris's CMsettings makes players tire much quicker in Career Mode.
Chris's Gameplay Mod is a little file based on previous things I've mentioned in here - largely stamina reduction and a goalkeeper "arm" ability increase (ability to reach shots in the corners).
Chris's Positioning Mod is just a mix of positioning changes based on your findings and @manmachine's findings. All the same attributes - just different values.
The rest are self-explanatory I *think*...!
tufkar84
Premiership
- 16 June 2020
For now I achieve this adding a few lines to the locale.ini:
RIGHTFOOT=2.0
RIGHTLEG=2.0
RIGHTUPPERLEG=2.0
LEFTFOOT=2.0
LEFTLEG=2.0
LEFTUPPERLEG=2.0
These should "slow down" legs a little bit... just enough for them to make unexpected touches.
Of course you can also consider touching slider "Pass Accuracy" up to 60-65, which impacts the error chances when pass angle increases.
Do both and you will probably find they miss too many passes...
Do you play on SLOW? I found playing on slow breaks defending a bit: defenders won't chase strikers aggressively. If you do play on slow, I'd consider lowering the Team Heigth and Width and increasing Marking. That's what I do to counterbalance it all...
- Staff
- #239
Thank you, I'll give this a go!
I do play on slow, "normal" is like ping-pong to me, even with the mods enabled. Will give this a go too.
Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
@manmachine do you remember which files you adjusted to get more long shots from the AI?