Let's FIFA 11/12/13: Making the perfect football game.

romagnoli

romagnoli

Misses Retri
7 August 2004
Maybe I need to get out more, but...


Given the amount of criticism people are directing at FIFA 10 at the moment (most of which IMO is out of frustration at how brilliant certain aspects are while others are still lacking), I really do think we should knock up a collaborative piece of some sort which explains exactly how FIFA should fundamentally change the in-game mechanics so that (a) assisted games aren't ping pong fests, (b) through balls aren't perfect, (c) dribbling in single player is as effective as in multiplayer, (d)casuals and hardcore players alike can defend without having to spam the pressure buttons and (e) shooting has that level of variety you got in PES 5 (ignoring Adriano).

Forget bugs for the moment, and forget any features or modes (except single and multiplayer/online) - I'm talking on-the-pitch, deliberate design choices.

An awful lot of the little/big issues we want to see changed are intrinsically related - lobs are prevalent because keepers are so good at saving normal shots because shots are generally weak because creating shooting opportunities is easy because passing is child's play because dribbling is so hard because pressuring is so easy because the defensive AI is quite passive because physicality is so important because players have perfect control etc etc.

EA can't just change one thing slightly without the balance of the rest of the game being affected. Consequently we can't say "EA just need to stop ping pong passing", or "EA need to improve the crappy AI". If, for all the posts we make about it, we actually want something done then we need to look at the whole picture and how to improve the balance of everything after making little changes like this. If we suggest one or two focussed fixes then EA will tweak to improve that area but other aspects will remain unchanged or imbalanced and we'll have a new exploit/pet hate come to the fore.

We can't just say "all manual is far more realistic, let assisted noobs have their scripted cheap wins" because then manual controls will continue to be marginalised and less effective than assisted controls rather than getting the attention and recognition they deserve. We can't say "manual controls are unrealistic because they don't take stats into account as much, I'll keep assisted thanks very much" because assisted isn't very stats-centric either - everyone seems to pass and control the ball pretty damn well in my experience.

Next year's edition is in the best position of all FIFAs to implement a far more balanced gameplay system - all the tools we need are in place. The animation system is untouchable; there are more skills and tricks than most people will think to use in a single match; 360 dribbling is in and already damn good for a first attempt; a new dynamic lighting system (so all stadia can have night/day/dusk!!) would be great but that can be left to the artists; Manager Mode would stand to benefit a lot from making the gameplay more realisic and varied, and any off-the-field concerns are down to Marcel Kuhn to work on separately to on-the-field play (and he's got a hell of a lot to prove).

All gameplay changes that we crave, that would slow the game down and give teams that individuality we need, can work within these existing tools. Supposing EA let us, as a forum of bloody geniuses, have the keys to all the little sliders and switches behind the scenes that control every aspect of what the AI thinks, how the players move, and what the ball does when struck. What would the absolute perfect setup be that would work across assisted, semi and manual? How do you make West Ham play like West Ham, Tranmere play like Tranmere, Bolton play like Bolton, Barcelona play like Barcelona, and Juve play like Juve, while still allowing for a giant killing scenario?

Chris is an excellent contact for passing on the end product of this sort of thing as we've seen with the Emirates playtest and the MM buglist, and I think we have a really good spread of knowledge across the control settings here. I think between us we could cut through the thousands of inane bullshit posts on the official FIFA forums and give EA the right guidance to create the game that the hype implied this year. Rather than venting every time we spot something that's wrong, why not actually explain what is wrong and what would be right, and what effect that would have on the game when playing noobs/exploiters/the CPU. The end result, in my opinion, should be that we balance the game so that assisted, semi and manual players love the game and can compete against each other at long bloody last.



Ok, now cross out the Maybe at the top.

I may say one or two contentious things in here as far as you're concerned; go with it or humour me, rather than derail the thread! I may have got something wrong in your opinion but it still took fucking ages to type so give me that at least! ;)
 
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Well, i think Fifa 10 is nearly perfect but if would be nice if we could contribute to make an even better game. I think our feedback should be quality and not to the style "fix this or fix that". The last doesnt much help the devs.

At a first approach i would suggest that they must pick the most simulation-based ideas and implement them into the game.

I just love playing on manual,slow,online (whatever mode 1v1 ,2v2(the best i think), 3v3.....or 10v10) and i think that they as developers need to capitalise on this type of modes and make them even better. Manager mode is not that fun for me playing against the AI. Perhaps if they could make a better AI....
 
I'll be brief for now as I can't be bothered with any long posts right now as I've already done far too many today on various forums.. but my main two problems for criticism are:

The control system (assists)
and
Pressure

These two things are the main flaws in FIFA 10.
 
Pressure should be solved by making skilled dribbling a bit faster to get past running defenders with ease. Just like in real life, defenders should slow down and close on the attacker to be able to get the ball. Stamina should be punished too.
 
romagnoli said:
Could you elaborate please? How would this affect people's ability to defend? How should EA improve defending in another way, if at all?
Click to expand...

At the moment (I find), that people hold square constantly, and as a result, you always are up against 2 defenders. Either that, or they barge into you and steal the ball, as a result of holding square. Furthermore, this constant pressure doesn't seem to affect the opponent's fatigue in any way.
 
quiet_riot said:
At the moment (I find), that people hold square constantly, and as a result, you always are up against 2 defenders. Either that, or they barge into you and steal the ball, as a result of holding square. Furthermore, this constant pressure doesn't seem to affect the opponent's fatigue in any way.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant, what would you do instead to counterbalance removing the pressure buttons?

This in particular is a part of the game that would need to be replaced with something else. You couldn't just remove the pressure buttons because it'd completely do away with two very powerful tools we currently do have to defend. How could you still give players the ability to defend properly, while still removing the pressure buttons?

In my opinion I've always thought it could be better if Square made the second player stay with the man on the ball (jockey when you move slow, run alongside when you run). The X button shouldn't completely charge at someone without requiring input from you; you should have to aim your pressure yourself.

However, if you make pressurizing weaker then you HAVE to change the balance of everything else - especially passing, shooting, player speed/acceleration etc - to keep the balance. If you just removed X and square pressing now then the scores in assisted FIFA 10 would be ludicrously high.
 
I'm not sure what needs to be done to counterbalance it necessarily. It's not perfectly balanced right now, and that's one of the two major obstacles.
 
Rodelero said:
I'm not sure what needs to be done to counterbalance it necessarily. It's not perfectly balanced right now, and that's one of the two major obstacles.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Pressuring is too powerful. As you've also pointed out, EA have then counteracted this by making assisted passing too powerful (or pressuring and physicality is too strong because they started with very accurate passing). Consequently you end up with both aspects kind of cancelling each other out but both being unrepresentative of real football. Because passing it around is so easy, they've made dribbling very hard and shooting generally weaker/goalkeepers stronger to keep the scores realistic (even if the match stats aren't so much).

I think the starting point for EA is to make assisted passing something close to being a good manual passer. At the moment assisted passing is brutally accurate. The reason why manual games are much slower is because it's a lot harder to find your target and advance up the pitch; consequently you choose the easier passing options (including passing backwards). When you lose the instantaneous, laser guided passing by switching to manual, pressuring then becomes an unfairly strong defensive ploy.

By making assisted passes less directly accurate and introducing a margin of error like that you'd see from a good manual passer (so that passes don't follow a straight line at a perfect weight but go more in the general direction with some over/underweighting), you no longer need to have such powerful defensive measures. Pressuring can then become a risky tactic which is as valid as trying to hold your defensive shape and intercept inaccurate passes.

Make the 'cone' of possible directions the ball can go when trying to hit an assisted pass more related to the player's passing ability, and make the player want to hold their shape rather than charge at the attacker all the time, and instantly players like Fabregas and Scholes get the individuality
we all want to see - as do those players who are less skilled at passing. If pressuring is made less effective then players who can dribble well get their individuality.

If less skilled players are more likely to mishit their passes then lower division teams become more distinctive; however a relatively good League Two passer can still stand out because the pressuring and tactical awareness of lower teams will be reduced, meaning a mishit or slow pass is still likely to meet it's target. When that League Two side play a Premiership/Championship team, that inaccuracy will be more of a problem.

Best of all, by making assisted passing a lot closer to manual/semi passing, EA aren't trying to tweak one gameplay engine to fit what are essentially two different games, and manual passers may actually have an advantage at long last.
 
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Bring out two disks per release, one tweaked for on line one tweaked for off line, half the offline stuff could be sorted if they took out the foiking about they have done to appease the whiny kids online...
 
Dunno about two disks! Certainly I think EA need to create a 'sim' and 'arcade' setting instead of slow/normal/fast speeds. That said, EA are trying to make FIFA 10 all things to all people but they end up having to balance 6 or 7 games where PES only has to deal with one. If EA really want people to play in arcade mode then let them, but, like Gran Turismo, give the rest of us a simulation.
 
The assists are the big issue for me, with the pressure. I've currently got a thread open on the EAUK forums (if it can really be called a thread rather than a flaming pit of despair). I'm not really sure why I wrote it - anger - I think. What it has revealed is a number of things which are quite fascinating about the mentality of assist users.. and it's a huge problem.

At the end of the day, what I was asking for was no different from a Forza 3 type system, where it's a trade off between ease, and potential effectiveness.. They don't like that.

The most on this issue that most assist users are OK with are segregated leaderboards for manual users. Now, I think there IS a solution which works with the current system but increasingly I believe that the entire system needs to be scrapped and rebuilt.

So, what could be done to the current system? I'm not really sure. There are a multitude of issues. The first one is that assisted just IS unrealistic. It's not even debatable. You can forget everything about semi, and manual, and you still have this problem. That needs to change.

The other major issue is balance. The reason most people use assisted is because it's the most effective. One of the top 10 FIWC players stated this FANTASTIC quote:

Assists is what makes the game good, you have your filter so shh.
__________________
FIWC 08 Online #4
FIWC 08 Grand Final #6

FIWC 09 Online #3
FIWC 09 Grand Final #8

PSN: dannytaylor
XBL: Danny Taylor
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Which beyond just being generally hilarious, tells us beyond any dispute that assisted is THE most effective way to play. So the next issue following from this is balance. Assisted settings give you all of the advantages - ease, no need for effort, no need for learning, no need for training, and, more than anything, it's the best.

This HAS to change - but can it? Can you really ever make assisted LESS effective than manual, which, let's face it, is DAMNED hard, especially with crossing/shooting.

I mean, I can see it being plausible to make assisted WORSE than semi (for players good enough to play semi) but.. can you make assisted WORSE than manual (for the cream of the players) without UTTERLY crippling it? Or should it be crippled? And if it was... what are the issues with that?

I think those fundamental questions are critical, because if they aren't resolvable - and I'm not sure if they are - where do you turn next?

There are a further wealth of issues too - there is a HUGE lack of education (for lack of a better word) about assists. Very few people know what they are, or what they do. More than anything, most of them would have a sincerely quizzical look if you asked them whether they wanted to take some of the assistance off... Why? Why would you make it harder for yourself?

There is a HUGE issue with having 108 badly balanced, explained, and thought out combinations...

The solutions working with the current system are one of two, in my opinion:

1) The Bare Minimum:
Manual filters for all online game modes
Manual leaderboards for all online game modes

2) The optimum whilst working with the system
The system is rebalanced to mean that the less assists you use, the higher your effectiveness gets assuming you are good enough

It would ONLY take 2). You wouldn't need the filters or leaderboards - it would remove the necessity. The thing is.. I'm not sure if 2) is plausible. I'm not really happy with 1).

So, what's the third option? The third option is a TOTAL changeup. A VAST condensation and concentration of the choices. A TOTAL shuffle of the balance. A new start. It's too complicated. We should have at MOST 5 choices, probably less, not 108, especially when most people use 1.

The online on FIFA 10 is great - but it's very limited by its current circumstances. Playing on manual today was fantastic. It's a beautiful game. This game could be so fucking good if they stopped catering to the morons.
 
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I don't play the Manager Mode so I'm not going to mention any improvements or fixes I would like seen done to that.

Here's my thoughts anyway

PART1


To Be Fixed From FIFA10:

1. There are no replays shown for close shots unless the keeper gets a touch to them.

2. Big Central Defenders should not be marking posts at corner kicks, the full backs or smaller players should be doing that job.

3. In the Practice Mode it is not possible to use a custom camera. I play Tele with the camera height all the way down so I can see the crowd when playing and slightly zoomed in but I can't change this in Practice Mode and it feels strange.

4. In the Practice Mode it is not possible to view replays. On a number of occassions I have pulled off a custom freekick or a great strike from distance but there is neither an automatic replay or option to replay.

5. The advantage rule is still flawed. On a number of occassions I have been fouled, advantage is played and the ball immediately goes to my player in an offside position and the ref blows for offside and I lose possession. There is no advantage here and the play should have stopped and given me the freekick for the initial foul.

6. Player switching doesn't seem to have been looked at. This was one of the major flaws in 09 and still is in 10. On numerous occassions the ball is passed to another player but for one reason or another i then have a different player in a better position to go to the ball but I am unable to change to this (whether using the shoulder button or the analogue stick) player and instead am locked onto the original player.

7. EA just don't seem to be able to get headers quite right. Headers at goal lack any real power or direction. It seems completely pre-determined who is going to win the ball and whether it is going to be on target or miles over the bar.

8. The responsiveness of headers/volleys in the box, whether shots or clearances is too slow. If I press the button in plenty of time my player chests the ball first before clearing/shooting.

9. The AI is very poor. There is no enjoyment whatsoever in playing single player in FIFA. It's either running into the goalie rather than shooting (Professional) or it's mind reading everything I am going to do ie as soon as I push the stick to change direction the AI also changes direction with me (World Class).

10. When playing against the AI, all Teams feel very samey, just different strips, there just doesn't seem to be any Team indivduality. Perhaps Sliders for each team would be a better idea rather than having difficulty settings, say have a level of 1 - 10 for Passing Accuracy, Shooting Accuracy, Player Movement, Teamwork etc. This way the better teams would have high stats for Passing Accuracy, Player Movement etc and lesser teams not so much. At the moment the only way EA seem to portray the difference in these teams is by having the lesser teams run slower, have slower reaction times, less accurate shooting when in reality a lot of the lower division teams have just as quick players as the Premier Leagues and any player at any level given time and space can hit a hard shot on target, just because he plays with a lower league team doesn't mean has the shot power of an infant.

11. Player individual is also fairly poor. Outwith the household names, everyone feels the same. Perhaps player traits need to be exaggerated (as per PES). PES player traits cards looks interesting but time will tell if it's any good.

11. Sometimes when running with the ball my player will leave the ball behind him, slow down and start side stepping around it.

12. Constant pressurising is a major problem in this game. Whether playing against the AI or online it is too easy to constantly hold down the A & X buttons and pressurise your opponent all game. There is just no space, especially in midfield, no time to hold onto the ball and pass it around which is one of the main reasons for "ping pong" play which FIFA is becoming renowned for and causing constant turn overs in possession. Even when you have the ball in defence the AI constantly chases you down at your own 18 yard line whereas in reality pressure on the ball doesn't really happen until the ball crosses the halfway line, opponent and scoreline dependant.

13. In contrast to the over pressurising of the defence and midfield mentioned above, I feel that the strikers receive the ball too easily without any pressure. It is so easy to pass from defence to attack by "zig zag" ping pong passing. The striker then has time to turn and play a 1 - 2 with his strike partner who also isn't closed down and another attack takes place. This makes the game to much like an end to end basketball game. The defenders, 9 times out of 10, should be up the strikers lalalala not giving him an inch, trying not to let him turn, leaving the striker to look for a pass backwards rather than a simple pass to his strike partner. The pressurising seems even all over the park when it should actually be less so in your own half and more so the closer you get to your opponents 18 yard box.

14. There is no feel of atmosphere in any games at all. There is no increase in noise, no passion, no reactions, no sense of playing at home or away, the sound effects are very bland and the crowd does not react to the action in game. The crowd is a major part of football. The terraces should be littered with people wearing the team strips and colours. The noise should increase as chances are created and as time runs out. The crowd noise should increase significantly when the home team scores (dependant on importance of goal) and as soon as the ball hits the back of the net the crowd should visibly and passionately start celebrating (again dependant on scoreline and time of goal etc). Alternatively when the away team scores the cheering should be noticeably quieter and again the small section of away support should be celebrating as above. Singing and chanting should reflect the current scoreline. At the moment the crowd seems to shabbily move about randomly, fans "celebrating" (i use the term loosley) when the opposing team scores etc. Also there should be songs and chants relevant to the teams that are playing (volume depending on who is home and who is away team)

15. In relation to the atmosphere section above, the celebrations really need to be worked on. Football is all about scoring, but when it happens there is just no feel of joy/passion. The players just look bored and simply jog about. I would like to see the option to either have custom celebrations on or automatic signature celebrations depending on which player has scored. Whatever celebration type is chosen, the players should show emotion on their face and interact with each other (depending on importance and time of goal) This need to be done in realtime using the in game camera, NOT CUTSCENES as this takes away from the feeling and is detached from the game.

16. The nets could do with some work. Correct style of nets/goals at each licenced stadium. The net physics could be improved, need to be slightly looser. Football Kingdom nets looked spectacular.

17. I think it's time that the graphics had a major overhaul. PES has taken over in this area IMO. The players look like cartoons of their real life counterparts, the lighting and colour pallette used also looks very cartoony. I appreciate that EA have been concentrating on gameplay (which is the right thing to do) but the graphics are starting to lag behind. Player bodies and shapes don't look realistic either and the strips look heavier and thicker than they should. On the strips, EA don't seem to be making the most of having the licences for most teams. Many people have reported errors in the strips in FIFA, from wrong colours to wrong font sizes and styles.

18. The team colours in the radar should be the same as the colours that team is wearing. I was playing as Scotland in blue v Scotland in white. My team in the radar were the white dots. Very confusing.
 
PART 2

New Additions for FIFA11

1. Highlights Mode (as per Halo Theater Mode). No one likes having to watch replays of goals being scored against them (especially online) so the highlight mode would record entire matches to your HDD for you to go into after your match. You could then view your whole match, save highlights/goals and, if you want to rub it into your mates, send them a clip of you scoring that over head kick against them from last night from 7 different angles

2. In game replays. These can either be switched on or off (you can watch the action in the Highlights Mode till your hearts content). When switched on, the replays should be longer, showing build up play. The camera angles currently used are awful (ground level camera looking up at players, behind the goal camera ) Replays should be shown automatically from behind the player or from the broadcast camera angle with the option to select free cam (as per PES). Replays should also display the name of the person who takes the shot (not always obvious). Replays of fouls should not be zoomed in to the player who commits the foul as it is impossible to actually see what is happening. When a player is booked for a foul which was commited earlier in the match, a replay should show this original incident. All replays which are saved should be stored on the HDD.

3. In game presentation. Entrance scenes need to be worked on. There should be some kind of build up to the game, players in tunnel (not arguing between the oppossing captains), mascots walking out with team, crowd roaring as the player enter the pitch, flares, fireworks, singing, players talking between each other, warming up, lining up for National Anthems, shaking hands. At kick off the there should be a TV style broadcast graphic displaying the team names and the stadium name. When centre is taken after a goal is scored, another TV style graphic should come up showing the team names, current score and the name of the scorer and time of goal under the relevant team name. Managers, subs and backroom staff, ball boys, mascots etc should be visible on the sidelines on the in game camera view. At half time everyone should be seen leaving the field(again on the in game camera angle ie NO CUTSCENES) to cheers, claps, boos (dependant on score).

4. If cutscenes must be used they should be kept to an absolute minimum and should blend in with the in game action/positions of players ie currently in FIFA the player runs to the middle of the pitch celebrating, cut to cutscene and player is standing at corner flag celebrating.

5. Currently when a ball is crossed into the box, only one player from each team can jump at/attack the ball. This is not realistic and all the players in the area should be trying to get to the ball (like in PES)

6. The right analogue stick should be pressure sensitive, allowing short pushes of the stick to knock the ball a short distance ahead of the player and longer pushes for the player to knock the ball farther away.

7. Online control setting filters needs improved. It seems that 90% of the games I play online are against guys who have everything set to assisted.
I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to, far from it. All I'm saying is that I don't want to bloody play them.

PLEASE MAKE IT POSSIBLE, WHEN CREATING A MATCH, TO SEARCH FOR PLAYERS WITH SPECIFIC CONTROL SETTINGS.

I know it's possible to choose Assisted, Semi/Assisted, Manual or No Restrictions but this is way too vague.

Very few people like playing on fully manual settings as is is very hard, especially passing + it's impossible to find a match when you choose this setting, believe me, i've tried.

Introducing a Semi control setting would not fully solve the problem either as not many people choose Semi for every setting.

BELOW IS THE IDEAL SET OF OPTIONS:


Pass Assistance: Assisted / Semi / Manual or Any

Through Pass Assistance: Assisted / Semi / Manual or Any

Shot Assistance: Assisted / Semi / Manual or Any

Cross Assistance: Assisted / Semi / Manual or Any

Lob Pass Assistance: Assisted / Semi / Manual or Any


I appreciate that this would limit the amount of available games but for instance I dont want to play guys on assisted shooting, so i would choose:

Pass Assistance: Any (No Restrictions)

Through Pass Assistance: Any (No Restrictions)

Shot Assistance: Semi

Cross Assistance: Any (No Restrictions)

Lob Pass Assistance: Any (No Restrictions)

So basically, I would be matched only with guys who have shot assistance set to semi and everything else could be at any setting.

Surely this would solve the problem?

8. All weather settings available in all stadiums

9. All lighting settings available in all stadiums.

10. Dynamic weather/lighting. Weather is changeable and this should be portrayed in game. Rain can stop and start, sun can disappear and cloud over etc. Pitch should slightly deteriorate during rainy games, strips should be dirty if player falls, slides, dives etc.

11. All shots should, by default, be hit driven with the laces unless I hold the finesse button. In certain areas of the pitch (mainly in the box) if I tap the shoot button for a low driven shot my player hits a side foot shot. I want to be able to drive the ball, with venom, low into the opposite corner of the net from inside the box but at the moment this seems impossible. FINESSE BUTTON FOR FINESSE SHOTS!!!

12. Quick throw ins. I want as few cutscenes/ black screen resets as possible. Let the game flow. If a ball goes out for a throw in, goal kick or corner, ball boys should gather the ball and throw it back to the player taking the set piece.

13. At the strip selection screen before a match, the full strip should be visible (not just the shirt) and home and away shorts and socks should be interchangeable.

14. Gameface. Now that we have Gameface in FIFA, as an ex PES face maker, I would like to see the option of importing faces for generic players who do not have the correct face and also the ability to import licenced players faces into the game if I believe they will look better than EAs efforts.

15. Editing. I would like to see an Editing Suite to the level of PES. There needs to be far more shapes of faces, hairstyles, facial hairstyles, hair colours, tatoos etc. I would love to see Strip creator, Stadium Creator, Net designer (all the things that PES is good at except more) Also we need to be able to change the appearances of licenced players ie hairstyles etc.

16. Trophy Celebration. When a trophy is won there should be a huge celebration/ceremony.

17. Tricks. AI players should do trademark moves/tricks as per their real life counterparts (C Ronlado doing tricks galore etc)

18. Adboards. Real adverts/companies displayed on adboards around the pitch instead of EA everywhere (Xbox)

19. Fully customisable camera angle for in game eg height, angle, tilt, swivel etc

20. Champions League. If it is not possible to get the Champions League or Europa League licence incorporated into FIFA11 then I would like to see editable custom tournaments with exactly the same format as these so as we can create our own Champions League.

21. Animations. I would love to see the Euphoria engine incorporated into FIFA11.
 
Good posts but..

stuartyd said:
7. EA just don't seem to be able to get headers quite right. Headers at goal lack any real power or direction. It seems completely pre-determined who is going to win the ball and whether it is going to be on target or miles over the bar.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I love the headers in FIFA10. In 09 they were way to easy, but I think they are amazing in FIFA10 and I couldn't disagree more about the "pre-determined" thing, to me they feel very natural and I seem to be better at them than a lot of people so I win a lot of headers when playing online, so to me it's pretty obvious that there is skill involved. Disagree about the on target or miles over the bar thing too, as I feel that for the first time ever there is timing involved that determains how you head the ball.

What they do need to improve though is running into the ball heading. I belive that Henrik Larsson once said that the easiest way to score a header is to keep your head still and just run into the ball. This unfortunatly never happens in FIFA. Otherwise they are spot on IMO.

stuartyd said:
17. I think it's time that the graphics had a major overhaul.
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And I disagree about this too, most probably. EA probably knows when the next generation of consoles will be released, and it's quite likely that we will only have two or three more FIFAs released on X360 and PS3, so IMO they should spend more time working on a new graphics engine for the next generation and just keep polishing this one. Don't think it's worh the effort to build a new one that after only a year or two is "old gen".

stuartyd said:
1. Highlights Mode (as per Halo Theater Mode). No one likes having to watch replays of goals being scored against them (especially online) so the highlight mode would record entire matches to your HDD for you to go into after your match. You could then view your whole match, save highlights/goals and, if you want to rub it into your mates, send them a clip of you scoring that over head kick against them from last night from 7 different angles
Click to expand...

Actually I think this is on it's way by Microsoft (http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/07/xbox-360s-new-zune-last-fm-facebook-and-twitter-features-deta/ about 5:20 in) and http://g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/6...g4tv&utm_medium=rssfeeds&utm_campaign=TheFeed)

My guess is that this is partly why we have such a poor replay save system in FIFA10.

But anyways. Some thing's I've thought of so far:
1. To be able to juggle the ball while running. Obviously only skilled players would be able to do this more than a few touches. Quite common that players IRL when trapping a cross will take a few touches, especially CRonaldo etc. Would also allow us to to Ronaldinho vs ? when he chest the ball and bicycle kick it into the goal.
(or Eguren vs Elfsborg..YouTube - Sebastian Eguren cykelsparkar sönder Elfsborg.Finns bara en!)

2. They got to fix the "first touch"-bug. It's better than in 09, but still horrible. I belive that it only happens on manual, but anyway: sometime when passing etc on one touch, the ball will for no reason, no matter how much you press the pass button, fly away with the exact same power (quite much power too). This is very anoying.[
 
Well we gotta finish this thread soon since they will be starting on 11 in a few months.

What I would want EA to implement is a Core and Hardcore setting for FIFA like IW did with COD. That would be great I think.
 
Yup. 'Arcade' can be fast,fully assisted and with perfect trapping etc. 'Simulation' should be slower paced, more about holding formation than mindlessly chasing the ball and include more player errors based on their stats.


I've posted a lot of what I think in the 'A Case For Manual' thread. Assisted controls should be assisted but not perfect. Assisted controls should be bringing you up to the standard of good or very good manual players - not making you superhuman. Putting the sides up at a bowling lane does not get you 12 strikes.

The friendly AI needs to be a lot more proactive too. The opposing CPU does seem as if it has two or three 'players' at once, though I think that's in no small part because the computer can select exactly which player it wants and doesn't have to spend that split second looking around the screen for the cursor. In the meantime it really is up to us to defend every attack - the CPU will kind of follow their markers but is prone to losing them at crosses or standing off too much when covering runs (selecting 'cover' as a defensive tactic often sends your full back about 5-10 yards behind the rest of the back line, giving the AI's strikers acres of space to chase the chipped pass). We're left having to choose between covering a run accurately while the CPU tries to block the passer ineptly, or trying to disarm the person with the ball while the CPU covers the run ineffectively. When there are a couple of other options available we can be left covering one player while three others are left free, rather than the AI doing a good job of at least holding up the run.

Supposing EA don't fix the cursor choice, by the way - supposing they can't work out the best way to let you press L1 once and choose exactly who you want 99.9% of the time. Supposing they stick with the "use the right stick to change player. Hope this helps" business. How do you think we should minimise the impact of causing players to run in stupid directions because you wanted to select the midfielder to run left towards the breaking striker, only to select the full back who was covering the winger and end up running like a loon while you try to select the right player? I was trying to think of a solution to this. I think maybe there should be an option to hold L1 and use the right stick to select the player you want. During this time you aren't in control of anyone - the friendly AI is. Then let go of L1 and you regain control. There would have to be some sort of time limit on this to prevent people just holding L1 to always defend without playing. This might then recharge behind the scenes so you can't just let go of L1 and press it again quickly.

Then again, if the CPU is defending then that's what people practice against offline all the time then using it online is a disadvantage!

For all the complaints people playing PES generally make about automatic clearances or slides in the box by friendly AI, I would far prefer that my defence tried to clear the ball than stood by and watched as the ball gets to their target man unmarked. Similarly if I'm not controlling a defender (or if I am for that matter!!) and the ball reaches him in the six yard box, I don't want to have to watch helplessly as, rather than hoof it instinctively, he chests it a yard forward for their striker to hammer home instantaneously.


One more thought I had is the impact improving the significance of weak foot accuracy would have. At the moment it does seem to have an impact for me with my semi/manual controls. At times, very much so in fact. However it doesn't seem to affect anything other than (occasionally) shooting for those with assisted controls, and even then I don't want to commit to that answer.

Pushing players onto their weaker foot is so important in real life. Look at Luis Valencia. He's a right foot and a stump, essentially. He always goes out wide where he can deliver good crosses with his right. Full backs therefore make sure he can't get the angle for the cross by almost forcing him infield. He doesn't like that at all. What he then does, is he tries to go out wide anyway, realise he can't cross, and then turns and passes it back to O'Shea. Every time. By dropping deep, full backs nullify him.

Compare that to C Ronaldo. For all his blistering pace, deft technique, immense kicking power and ruthless accuracy, what makes him so unbelievably good is that he can do it with either foot. If he was one footed then full backs would have something to work with, something to use to control him. If Ronaldo was one footed he'd be a very good player, but not a World Player of the Year. As it is, Ronaldo needs two players to mark him - one for each foot!

In FIFA, this makes a little but not a huge difference. Berbatov hits scorching left footers from 30 yards. Video threads are full of screamers from the weaker foot. Defending crosses is tricky because the winger can just check back and hit the ball with their weaker foot and still hit a head rather than the stands. Trying to block a shot is very tricky because pushing Tevez onto either foot makes little difference.

If a player has a 4 star rating for their weaker foot it should not essentially make them perfectly two footed. Even if they have a 5 star rating they should still have a stronger and weaker foot!
 
Yeah for example a 5 star weak foot strike will be 80% accurate
4 Stars - 70%
3 stars - 60%
2 stars - 40%
1 stars - 20%

I don't know what are better increments for starting at 80 which is realistic I would say.
 
https://evo-web.co.uk/threads/54758/page-3
http://forums.evo-web.co.uk/showthread.php?t=54861

Just making a note of threads/posts of interest.

I really think EA should create a toolkit or special downloadable version of FIFA for a selected bunch of us to use, which has a load of sliders for things like passing accuracy/speed, significance of strength etc. We should be able to muck about with the sliders to get what we perceive to be the ideal setup, and then get the others to try it out and/or send it to EA. As Trance_Allstar more or less said elsewhere (and I said above), all the details like animations, physicality etc are there and ready; EA just need to get the balances right.
 
I agree with mostly all written by now, only I would like to stresss many things that affect the core of the gameplay:

1- Ball control should be depending on player stats (a lesse skilled player lasting more than one tocuh to control the ball, sometimes missing a control) AND should also depend in some measure of player. For example, better controls would be made if going in slow pace, while sprinting should make even the stars fail now and then.

2- This also applies to running with the ball. Currently a player with speed 90 and skill 50 will run with the ball just as well as a player with 90 pace and 90 technique. This must change. There's a key difference in how very skilled players like Xavi, Iniesta or Messi can run with the ball perfectly driven and change direction quickier than the rest. On the other side, a player like Abidal can't do this changes of direction and can't run with the ball so well, sometimes he will misshit a little the touch, or will put the ball too far away or will simply last longer to change direction, with more touches. That would make a real revolution, because SKILL has never been "simulated" until as of now in the player runs, and this with 360º would make a difference.

3- Strength is overrated in the game and most of the times POSITIONING is not taken into account. If someone comes sprinting towards me, even if he dispossesses me, 95% of times it's a foul. If he comes from BEHIND or a SIDE sprinting, it's almost automatically a strong foul. So, tackling should be based on player stats and the timing of the gamer, and not solely in strength and pace as if it is right now. Plus, players fall too many times to the floor.

4- Following the tackling thing: When tackling, sometimes the ball would go loose. Not always a tackle results in winning the ball under perfect control while the opponent stumbles. Tackles should create some scrambles, even in midfield!

5- Aerial play and clearances should have more power, as well as some shots.

6- Tactical play and positioning of players: here's where the game fails miserably. I don't want players to defend 10 meters away of the striker all the match. There should be, at least, the same depth of play we have in PES.

7- In manual controls, it takes too bloody long to "charge" the passes. Something should be done about it, and stats should impact how good is the pass in some way. Maybe, based in stats, make the pass more "bouncy", stronger than necessary or missing some degrees...
 
I wonder with manual controls what the best route to take is. As soon as the ball is auto corrected to some extent, even if adding degrees on either side to make a bad player misplace a pass, is it manual anymore? I fully agree that you need inaccuracy, and I've been shouting it naked from any rooftop I can climb to without snagging something on the masonry.

But manual controls with some sort of inaccuracy like this is a bit of a paradox. You can make the pass itself a lot less smooth (e.g. the ball might be scuffed and bounce along), but if you make the pass go slightly more to one side than you actually pressed than it might make learning how to use manual controls be more difficult - one time you aim perfectly but the ball is scuffed to the left, so next time you aim to the right and the ball goes exactly where you aimed, but not to the player. Unless there's a way of telling us that the pass missed because the player wasn't good enough to make the pass, that might piss people off! Maybe if EA made it clear in a tutorial vid or something that, if you try and hit a longer pass or try and first time a difficult ball, you will lose accuracy or your player may completely shank the ball off to the side/miss the ball completely, then everyone would know what is happening and why.

I wonder about swerve as well - is there a way to get your player to hit a swerving pass while keeping the controls manual? Maybe people who use manual controls should have their own special control, which is to hold, say, R1+Pass and aim the left stick in the initial direction they want the ball to move, a bit like aiming off to the side when taking a free kick?

Dunno, do you think doing that would be better than just aiming in the direction you want the ball to end up? Or is that level of difficulty a bit over the top? I just think that, if curl on a pass was something you could press a button to do every time, people will do it every time. Like people who make ZOMG LOOK AT AWESOME FIFA!!!! vids of them doing overhead flicks and volleying in from 50 yards. Would be great in real life, but they're ten a penny in FIFA.

If you make it tricky to pull off (and if it varies from player to player as to how much it'll swerve) then people won't spam it every time.. I don't know how you'd do outside of the foot swerve, and I don't really want to say "one button for swerve left, one for swerve right" because that'd lead to EVERY through ball being with the outside of the foot for the ZOMG WATCH THIS factor.


I have no idea how my posts end up at least this long.



Edit: I played PES 6 yesterday, and one of the first things that happened was O'Shea cleared a long ball dropping into the box with his head. It almost reached the halfway line. I almost forgot such things were possible!
 
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About the manual controls, inaccuracy should rely on stats and conditions of the player. If your player is not even facing the direction you want him to pass, the "vision" and "skill" stats of that player should be taken into account and the ball could go -+5 degrees of your aiming. About the pass being short or long, every player could have it s differencies in speed of "charging" the bar. So, a player like Xavi could put a 20 meters pass perfectly rolling on the grass with less time than a mediocre player. You should get used to each player "passing" routines, just as you have to adapt to shooting routines in Nba 2k10. And it would be great!

So, at the end, one part is you as a game mastering your players and on the other part the system adding little touches to your pass. Even if you aim well and put enough strength in the pass, if the player is not gifted technically he would put a "bouncy" pass or take an extra 200 milisecodns to do it.

That's the only way I see we have true manualness and stats taken into account. Same for the shooting, given that ANY player can now and then hit a powerful strike to the corner, but you should have 10% more chances of scoring if you hit it with a great striker.
 
Didn't know there was already precedent for different power bar charge rates. Interesting.. I kind of wonder about it though - if the charge rate isn't consistent then I would have worried that it'd be really difficult to get used to the timings? Similarly, if you give lesser players a slower charge rate then doesn't that also mean you can judge their passing weight more accurately? Would Xavi not end up more likely to overhit a pass because someone hasn't released the button in time?

I think the bar can certainly afford to charge quicker in general, but maybe the shoulder buttons could be used to modify the strength of a pass. R2+Pass hits the ball harder (first time crossfield pass), L2 is more measured (lay-off or close range passing, a bit harder than manual through balls). This could perhaps even be as simple as changing the rate at which the bar fills?

At the very least there could be some sort of modifier for pass strength based on the passer's ability.



I got this from Gary Paterson from something I knocked together in late October:

EA_GaryPaterson said:
Hey,

I actually have a very good document that you wrote that was forwarded to me by Suff from FSB. Thanks for that by the way, I had always wanted to pass on my appreciation. The doc is very well written and, in the most part, is in line with ideas that we already had to change the game. Whether we take it as far as you suggested is something that we will find out in the coming months.

Thanks again, if you have any other feedback I would be more than happy to receive it (though obviously no guarantees that we will be able to address it all)

GAry
Click to expand...

It was about exactly what I've been trumpeting in here - passing and ball control imprecision, and how all the other gameplay fixes they need come from there. So fingers crossed FIFA 11 turns out to be phenomenal and I can take legal action to claim some sort of percentage cut...
 
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I would be happy to see;

Better graphics, although the animation is good the overall graphics when your on the pitch are poor, not much better than a PS2's. This includes players, pitch, crowd, stadium and nets.

Sack the person(s) responsible for the players faces, I can understand bad kippers for lower league teams, but Premier league, and all the other major leagues there is no excuse. PES puts it to shame in this department.

More power on shots, and more importantly headers, plus more variety, (think I have scored 2 diving headers since release) just not enough headers being scored in the game as they are too weak. Again PES has it a lot better.

Get rid of silly over complicated commentary phrases that start to grate after listening to them for the 10th time. ie 'You've played in a few of these derby's Andy. . . . . . .' great when you hear it the first time, but let's face it after that it's stupid. Just keep it simple.

Would be over the moon if they deal with any of the above.
 
shieldslfc said:
Get rid of silly over complicated commentary phrases that start to grate after listening to them for the 10th time. ie 'You've played in a few of these derby's Andy. . . . . . .' great when you hear it the first time, but let's face it after that it's stupid. Just keep it simple.

Would be over the moon if they deal with any of the above.
Click to expand...

Agree.

I'm sick of hearing that Barca v Plymouth Argyle is a derby match, or how Andy Gray would try headers from 25 yards with the modern ball. Worst of all is how my striker 'only had a yard to find' when tapping into an open net.

My gf wants 'Here's Tevez with his bulldog like approach' removed ASAP!
 
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