JustPES - All your PES/WE tactical discussions

Just found this thread and I think it's an interesting topic.
So I tried the Barca formation and yes, it is better than default, but still not good :(
This was my first match with it, playing Villarreal away at Camp Nou, won 2-0 and totally dominated it hm. (10 mins top player)
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your using the default gameplay not yari's one i hope? Because yari's makes beating Barca' ridiculously easy!

You did implement everything yes? the formation, the team styles and team management tactics?

You just said formation.

Top player and preferably 15-20 minute match?

The stats look as if you just edited the formation without the most important things in which is the tactics and the constant (possession game (DEF) ) Because what happens is they give you literally no time to create! Also they keep the ball for LONG periods and it's hard to get near them. If they gave you time one the ball, you must of not put it in properly. It looks like it from those stats

Look at what Skeebal said, he beat them 2-0 also with Madrid but he talk about being overwhelmed and having to change his tactics, so it seems as he put everything in!

Those stats are similar stats to what i have playing against Barca on default settings
 
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Yes, I did set team style and tactics, too. I use default 1.03 exe ;)

15 or 20 minutes might make them a tad better, but it's just that I play 10 mins normally and not going to change that.

Yes, they did pass faster and single players didn't keep the ball very long, but still I could win it around 5-10 times in that match when they were running too much.
 
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PATe.Arminia said:
Yes, I did set team style and tactics, too. I use default 1.03 exe ;)
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Doesn't make sense how you could dominate them with those stats! How they had 1 shot at goal, everyone else has had good games against them or been torn apart with them having not much possession except you who beat them easily with stats similar to how you would beat them on default settings

Oh shit, just realized you use PESedit which has Pes Stats Database. So your Villarreal is overpowered! That could be the reason.

Your player ratings are all crazily higher than they should be, making the game too easy whatever the tactics settings. Wow, PSD really fucks up PES badly!
 
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Klashman69 - Check your PM. Please post these tactical settings in the blog. I have created categories in such a way we can have these easily retrieved for reference. If you have difficulties in accessing/publishing catch me on google talk at vjkrgn as I'm always on it.

This is exactly the project I wanted to do but because of some domestic/career priorities in the last few months, I couldn't actually concentrate. Now I'm back and it's nice to find that the discussion is really flourishing.

With regards to people getting different types of games/experiences with the same tactical settings, that's understandable. If you look at what else has an impact on how a game turns out (in addition to the tactical settings) there are (a) difficulty level (b) gamespeed (c) condition level (d) gamer's style and ability. So it's natural that not every gets the same experience. If most of us feel that Barca plays like Barca with these settings, that's good enough.

I've seen some of the tactical settings suggested. I may not totally agree with all. I'd post my views and comments on why they could be different.
 
klashman69 said:
well, in that case it makes no sense, unless you put a video up of you doing it, I'm unconvinced
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Just tried to make one but when I had finished the match I saw the recording was all black :S I'll have another go tomorrow, but I can say this match was closer on statistics, won 3-2 AET and had like 7 shots while Barca had 6. Yes, as I said earlier, it's much better than default tactics.
I'm just wondering wether it could be further improved...

One thing I noticed in both games is that CBs and SBs get substituted (both matches), probably because they are running more as playing so high up field in the normal lineup and then getting back defending. For full backs this is ok, but not for centre backs, imo.
 
I've also stumbled upon this thread recently. Interesting stuff, seems to be that "factor X" which is missing in default Konami settings. So yesterday I finally decided to give it a try. I changed settings only for Barca (formation, styles, tactics).

Testing platform: PC, Konami 1.03/2.00 DLC, default OF, no kitserver. Top player, exhibition, 10 minute matches, with ET and penalties, all arrows green, speed 0.

There were few differences in players abilities - "my" Messi isn't 102 overall, he's "only" 98, and Villa isn't 87 but 84. I guess you tweaked them a bit? Everything else seems to be identical to your Barca screenshots.

Quite coincidentally, I tried the very same match as Pate did - Villarreal vs Barca (exhibition, but at home, not away as Pate did). I didn't change anything in Konami's default tactical settings (4-5-1 formation and styles) for Villarreal. I just made one or two replacements to bring out the best possible Villarreal squad.


I played three matches in a row. I forgot to take the screens, but memories are still fresh :) I made identical change in all three matches around 60th minute, since I always had to chase the result (replacing AMF with striker in SS position, pushing strikers a bit higher).

First match:
Finished 1-1. They pressured me from the beginning, luckily they didn't score. During that period I adapted a bit and I've been able to maintain the possesion, but far, far away from Barca's final third. Barca took the lead in second half (corner, silly rebound, tap in by Pedro), Cazorla equalised around 80-th minute after perfect through ball from Rossi (perfect punishment for their high defensive line, as Alves left huge gap on the right side). I won on penalties. Barca had way more shots than me (they head like 15(9), me only 3 or 4), but they didn't outposess me (55% or slightly higher for me).

Second match:
Lost 3-2 in dying seconds of the second ET. This time I managed to push them into their box during the first 15 or 20 minutes, 1-0 for me. Barca turns it around in 2nd half - early equalizer after brilliant FK setup (low pass, Pedro runs in through the gap I left and chips it in) and then another cheesy rebound for 1-2, Pedro again. Around 80th minute I leveled - corner, clearance to the side, pass around the box, pass to Rossi, goal (but I have to admit, it was a clear offside). And then "poetic justice" in 120th minute - half-arsed clearance goes directly to Alves, instant cross, Xavi makes the highest jump and heads it in. Posession was almost 50-50 (slightly more for Barca, maybe 52%), both teams had rather low amount of shots (6 or 7 at most). Quite a dirty match, with lots of fouls from both sides.

Third match:
Lost again, 2-1 after regular time. Again, frantic beginning by Villarreal, Barca is nowhere, 1-0 for me (But again, the way my midfielder disposessed Maxwell from behind just a few meters from goalmouth was a clear foul). Then Villa decides it's time to wake up. Very soon it was 1-1 - Pique intercepted bad pass, spammed instant through ball, Villa did the rest. That "brilliant" stumble/sideways-tussle animation gave Villa another chance. My defender has the ball, I'm trying to pass it away just as Villa rushes into my players ass, but no pass - the mighty animation has begun :), Villa overruns my defender and it was 1-2. In second half Valdes saved a penalty, later one of my players got red card but the score didn't change, Barca was already in more defensive mode because of that regular CPU formation change somewhere after 60th minute. Again, quite dirty match, lots of fouls, even posession (again, maybe few percents more for Barca), low shot tally on both sides.


All in all, I like it, looks good :) Much, much, much better than default settings, but far from being impressive. They never truly outposessed me, most of the CPU goals still came from cheesy rebounds and glitches, not after creative passing play. But who knows, maybe it was just one of those "bad streaks" where AI decided to show its uglier side.


I'm definitely going to do more tests. Klash, keep the good work :BYE:
 
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I think it's not possible to increase the intelligence :D so they will never have 70% possession if you have a quite good team. But the forward moves of the SBs are much better, the high defense line is good, theyplay better etc. we can't expect too much, its still PES 2011. but it's much better imo, even though its easy to counter Arsenal with that formation, won 2-0 with Liverpool and could have been 4-5 goals. But it really looks like Arsenal, and not like any other team.

btw, did anyone notice all the fouls? 1st time ever for me that the CPU had more fouls than me, I like it.
 
I did want to say the other day that Man Utd's formation and first XI looked a bit off - Rafael has been first choice right back for a little while now and Nani is on the right far far more often than the left, with Park cutting infield an heading into the box. We're hardly known for consistency though, and if Anderson keeps up his pre-Xmas form once he's back from his rest after 5 games in 3 days then we may have another line-up to tide us over until Valencia is back on the right...!
 
@ Cpt i have one for them, but it's nothing too spectacular really, i'll upload in a secound.

@ zlac

Ok, with Barca's and Arsenal's formation I hadn't really tested it against top teams, i was focusing on getting them playing right and them defending right.

So most of the pieces were in place. I tested it out against Villarreal like you have zlac. What i noticed was I was having too much time on the ball, i was playing a deep line but unlike with Aston villa when i just couldn't do anything. I was able to get some passing going, so i knew there was something i could change. They scored a jammy goal, but about a few minutes later i equalized and that goal thankfully explained what the problem with my tactics was. It was just a through ball which easily beat the defense and Rossi scored the one on one.

I looked at Puyol's positioning and i saw he basically got caught up field, leaving Pique exposed and an easy 1 on 1. The problem was: Player switching at 20! Barca are too unorganized to defend well and it messes up their pressing game with player switching positions too much and they lose their shape from time to time.

So what i did was take mano's full advice and set Position switching to 0.

BIG difference! It's VERY hard now to counter Barca because there isn't any space and they now close you down with a lot more organization. I played them again and lost 2-0, it was just like the Villa match, had three wayward shots, barley any possession, also the theme of things was i just keep fouling them since they are were so hard to tackle. Valero was sent off and had to go super defensive! Didn't work and they eventually broke past me.

Where I'm not happy with this new setting is when i used Madrid against them. I played two matches against Barca, lost the first 2-0 (penalty, jammy goal) and drew the second 1-1. But i got absolutely slaughtered!

Unlike before, where you expose their high line by countering using the through ball, Puyol and Pique were rarely if ever out of position, not just that, even when Alevs or Maxwell were caught up field, they would chase back to tackle me, which before sometimes they didn't and when they are lined up in a line of 4, there was just no space whatsoever to make anything! The only was i was able to attack was to just lump it to Crisitano and sprint down the wing! That proved fruitless! All i could do was defend really and hope for a mistake. I did hit the bar late on with Benzema when going for broke but that very much would have flattered me.

The secound game, i went ahead from a corner with Higuain. I think that was quite literally my only attempt on goal all game. Eventually with all the desperate defending and with no space to work anything Khedira was sent off. So i went super defensive. Messi was able to ghost past two men and score a lovely goal :( . They really should have gone on to win the game. They had 62% of the possession!

if i had not of gone dutch and just fouled them so much it would have been much, much worse! But you naturally resort to doing this when being overwhelmed!

So the best way to set up Barca is to use these team styles:

Player support: 0
Support Range: 0
Position Switch: 0
Attacking Style: 20
Pressing: 20
Defensive Line: 19
Compactiviness: 0

It will be a nightmare breaking this organized Barca down :)

I also lowered the position switching for Arsenal, I'll explain what happened in a bit :)
 
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Klash, your newest settings don't make much of a difference for me. Played as Levante vs. Barca (1:1 AET) and had 56% possesion...

You should also most definately play Villa on the left as SS and put Abidal as LB.
I advice you to move the defensive line (mainly CBs) a tad back to prevent them losing all stamina and getting subbed (tried this out). Also, try to work with arrows in wilda's editor, they do have an impact.
 
Pate. Seriously. You must be doing something very wrong

I think your using either the wrong formation or you entered the team styles in wrongly!

It's not a coicedence your the only one who's finding it easy against Barca

And no, I'm testing these using the ps3 version and not editing it using pc tools.

Also 15 matches at least! 10 minutes isn't a proper match, that's for having quick games against ur mates and I don't care about extra time/penalties! Football is 90 minutes, extra time is only for cups!
 
Liverpool and Man City DEFN need more tactics for leading, level, and trailing. They don't play like their real life counterparts with all those blanks. Their offense is basically nonexistent.
 
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Liverpool and Man City DEFN need more tactics for leading, level, and trailing. They don't play like their real life counterparts with all those blanks. Their offense is basically nonexistent.
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cool, what do you suggest?

i mean lol it's an improvement from the default but it's a very hard side to copy since they don't really have a style.

look today. City parked the bus! on another day they are all out attack :CONFUSE:

As with Liverpool, well, there just a mess really so.
 
klashman69 said:
Pate. Seriously. You must be doing something very wrong

I think your using either the wrong formation or you entered the team styles in wrongly!

It's not a coicedence your the only one who's finding it easy against Barca

And no, I'm testing these using the ps3 version and not editing it using pc tools.

Also 15 matches at least! 10 minutes isn't a proper match, that's for having quick games against ur mates and I don't care about extra time/penalties! Football is 90 minutes, extra time is only for cups!
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No mate, everything is set as suggested here. I made a video and if you need it, I can up it.
I'm not about showing how good I am at PES or something, but I want to prove it's not all perfect (yet) what's been posted here. I edited Barca myself a bit and for me it was harder after these edits.
 
PATe.Arminia said:
No mate, everything is set as suggested here. I made a video and if you need it, I can up it.
I'm not about showing how good I am at PES or something, but I want to prove it's not all perfect (yet) what's been posted here. I edited Barca myself a bit and for me it was harder after these edits.
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upload it then! If i see Barcelona playing the ball fast up field or not closing you down, then your done it wrong!
 
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Marlon said:
No, they use 4-3-2-1 (4-3-1-2) :))


What Italian teams do you need? I could try to find out something
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If Palermo have their full starting XI they play 4-3-1-2.

Roma play that formation as well but Ranieri always makes changes, be it from kick off or during halftime.
 
More testing, Villarreal (default) vs. tweaked Barca, using new team styles.

With 10min matches, there were hardly any visible differences. They outshot me (a lot), possession was pretty much even, 1-1, I won on penalties. Again, huge gap between Alves and Pique, diagonal through ball to Cazorla. Could have scored more, but lady luck wasn't on my side. Through-balls are decently effective against Barca.

They I finally switched to 15min and ... to be honest, it felt like a different game altogether. Bit more calmed down. Everything that was effective against Barca in 10min setup simply wasn't effective any more (i.e. through ball spamming), they were more organized, didn't rush that much. Again, they outshot me, but possession was pretty much evened out. Played two games, lost both of them. 0-3 in the first match, cheesy 2nd and 3rd goal. 0-1 in second, conceded in late 80-es. Although I had been able to maintain decent possession, most of the time I was pretty much helpless, unable to do anything concrete or dangerous.

Hmmm, I'm starting to wonder whether this game really is meant to be played on 10min matches?
 
zlac said:
More testing, Villarreal (default) vs. tweaked Barca, using new team styles.

With 10min matches, there were hardly any visible differences. They outshot me (a lot), possession was pretty much even, 1-1, I won on penalties. Again, huge gap between Alves and Pique, diagonal through ball to Cazorla. Could have scored more, but lady luck wasn't on my side. Through-balls are decently effective against Barca.

They I finally switched to 15min and ... to be honest, it felt like a different game altogether. Bit more calmed down. Everything that was effective against Barca in 10min setup simply wasn't effective any more (i.e. through ball spamming), they were more organized, didn't rush that much. Again, they outshot me, but possession was pretty much evened out. Played two games, lost both of them. 0-3 in the first match, cheesy 2nd and 3rd goal. 0-1 in second, conceded in late 80-es. Although I had been able to maintain decent possession, most of the time I was pretty much helpless, unable to do anything concrete or dangerous.

Hmmm, I'm starting to wonder whether this game really is meant to be played on 10min matches?
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10 minute matches are shit :))

15 or 20 are the standard man, maybe even 25 if you have time!

With 10 minutes matches everything feels very rushed :) You can't have a proper match man, seriously :)

Nice to see the tactics are working for you. you should have that helpless feeling against them. Like they are a dynamic wall that you just can't penetrate!

Like i said to Pate, it should feel like your going 12 rounds with Mike Tyson!
 
20 minutes is the best option, 10 is not much and sometimes CPU makes big changes in 60-65. minute, so you play 6-7 minutes .. not enough imo

how about making a plan to create tactics for the 4 big leagues.. you can post what you have already done and then we can look for people who know about their team.. just like me with Bayern, Italian guys for their teams etc. :D
so we have a tactic for every team, we can test and improve afterwards then..
 
I think what would help most at first would be a good guide to the theme by the people like klash who are into it the most, so other people who are intersted (there are surely not few) can contribute too.

Guide would be a overview about what the tactics exaclty do, I mean, KONAMI doesn't really tell it ;)
 
Like PATe said, if an in-depth guideline to what each setting in PES does, then I'd be able to help replicate real life tactics.
 
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