eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

B-Man said:
You should all formulate your own opinions after playing. Don’t take mine or someone else’s as gospel bro.
Click to expand...

Exactly this. If you are able to afford the game, then get it and make your own opinions.

What person 'x' likes or dislikes, might not bother you (or me) and what I dont like, others might love.

I love reading opinions but I also love forming my own. I read on here that the ball is like glue to players feet.... videos ive watched go against that theory. Who is wrong? No one its just how we perceive those incidents.
 
tbh don't need to sink hours in to see the difference, I have seen it with my own eyes in the videos, obvious cases where it should be a foul, it would have been a foul in the demo, but not given. probably they just reduced ref strictness globally rather than trying to fix the few cases where the refs got it wrong, now we have obvious fouls not given which changes balance online completely and removes big skill element in defending.
 
OBH said:
C’mon now guys, just look at the demo thread:

Day 1: “oh it’s terrible, I hate it”.
Day 10: “hate to admit it, but it’s growing on me”.
Day 20: “best game ever. I never doubted Konami”.

There’s no point getting disheartened until you’ve played it yourself and sunk some good hours into it.
Click to expand...

Think it'll be the opposite affect. It feels good to play but after a while it feels like a chore.

I've always considered myself a decent PES player but AI are almost impossible to break down, even on Top Player. There's no room for error, and the slightest wrong call by the user and the AI win the ball off you.

Your build up needs to be perfect every time.
 
B-Man said:
I completely understand where you are coming from. Played about 15 hrs. 15 min matches superstar PA 1. I’ve spoken to some Konami peeps about a few things...

1) The game does feel less free and more “familiar”

2) My players feel a tad sluggish on the ball especially compared to how fluid the A.I. is on the ball

3) right stick, because of this sluggish feel, is pretty fuckin useless against the A.I. Not sure how it will be online from a feature standpoint

4) The physicality has been toned down. Play with Thiago in the demo then play with him in final game patched and those quick smaller players get beasted off the ball way too easily. Even a Konami guy I spoke with noticed it and fed it back to the team but said changes will depend on fan feedback :(

5) seeing a lot of similar shot trajectories from myself and A.I. whereas in demo I saw more variety

On the positives side the attacking A.I. From the cpu has a lot of variety. The game is a lot like the demo its just ashame important element get toned down at release the add up to a diff experience over time.

This is just one man’s opinion
Click to expand...


Man...I knew they would mess up that demo when people started complaining. This is why too much public feedback is not a good thing for Konami. I don’t want the game to feel anything like 2019...hell, I even deleted 19 from my ps4 as soon as I started playing the demo.
 
OBH said:
That’s how I feel about the entire skill move system.

I definitely saw on Weedens YouTube channel. Some skill move tutorial.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, it was weedens that I was following back then. He claimed it could still be done but really it's just an occasionally occurring dribble animation that pops the ball out a bit further. There isn't a dedicated button combo to do it as before, it's just an unreliable contextual move, which personally, is not what I want at all. Sorry, it's a sore nerve for me so I bang on about probably more than I should. I'll get used to it I'm sure, it was just a really reliable way to do a dipping shot which I was constantly doing on 2019.

Anyway, I've just done the PL transfers and turned off DEEP DEFENSIVE LINE for all teams so I'm going to try some Master league now!
 
Mikhail said:
Can someone advise me.

In gameplan, there is ‘support range.’

I want my players to come short and always offer me a passing option. On the screen it says ‘the higher the level, the more players tend to spread themselves out.’

But I find that when it’s at 10/10, the players come short, not spread out.

I’ve always wondered this.
Click to expand...
Yeah it's the famous Konamish English translations that often means the opposite of what they're saying.
If you have it high near to 10,they'll be close to you to give you support.
If you have it below 5,they'll spread out more.
It's actually the opposite of what it says on the desciption lol.
 
Emroth said:
:LOL:
Damn, dog, you have some proper joy swings there! :LOL:
Only messing.
Glad you like it, really do.
Click to expand...
No mate you're completely right. These days, when it comes to football games, I yo-yo between "I love it" to "I hate it!". At this moment in time I am enjoying it, just spent an hour playing exhibition matches with Milan. I think they're going to be my team on my first Master League save when I start next week :)

OBH said:
I’m 100% convinced that the players own traits and advanced tactics completely override those pointless settings. I’ve spent ages testing it and they seem so painfully inconsistent.

Tiki-taka is the only sure way I’ve found to make sure players come short, but if you want players to make runs in behind at some point you have to use Centred Targets or Wing Rotation along with it.

Having said all that, players traits seem to override everything else completely because an attacking fullback will ignore what you tell him to and bomb forward anyway!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation mate, it's much appreciated. I tried Tiki Taka after reading your reply and I don't think I could stick with it - like you say, the forwards don't make runs behind.

FShas said:
Are you playing a short or long game? Possession or counter?
I feel they make a difference but not always in a way that's clear I'm afraid.
Also depends on what shape opposition have taken.
Click to expand...

I play possession, short passing, aggressive defending, high (ish) line.

Dennis_87 said:
Yeah it's the famous Konamish English translations that often means the opposite of what they're saying.
If you have it high near to 10,they'll be close to you to give you support.
If you have it below 5,they'll spread out more.
It's actually the opposite of what it says on the desciption lol.
Click to expand...

It definitely seems this way doesn't it?! I'm sure my players come shorter for me when I'm 10/10. But the graphic suggests that the players will spread out further if I use a higher option. It's bizarre!
 
If Konami are going to respond to fan feedback, and it's fair to assume that spammers and button-mashers won't bother to flood them with compliments for (slightly) dumbing down the game, we should be able to convince them to tweak it back again, surely? Plenty of feedback telling them how much we loved the subtlety and realism of the demo, and how disappointing it is to lose a bit of that... and they might just act.

Considering how much time they must have spent programming that stuff, it can't have brought them much joy to immediately wipe it out and make the game flatter and more predictable again, before it's even been properly released. Convince them they've gone too far and everyone hates it and they might just shift it back a bit. It's true that historically, gameplay updates have tended to make the game worse rather than better, but there have been some good, corrective ones over the years too.
 
Woodzy said:
It's a good game. It's just that the Demo/Out of the box version is better, and simply more fun to play.
Click to expand...
Reading some of the stuffs, the foundation upon which my purchasing decision was based on has thoroughly been shaken. All the little nuances that made the demo stand out has been watered down, AGAIN. I just don't want it to revert back to what 2019 was like.

Why cant PES 2020 have its own identity ? Eg. like ''That PES where fouls were easily given'' or ''it was so random (contextual) you couldn't predict anything''. I mean it was made with Esports in mind, it clearly depicts a creators vision.

They should listen to fans but not to an extent where the game loses its identity.

I guess i will read more impression down the line and see how other members feel about it. Surely in 2 days time, there will be a reliable consensus to make a purchase decision.
 
FShas said:
This is the same thing i found. In the demo and 1.00, theres a chance you can just barge and stumble your way through with the right player. With the patch, it's almost impossible, too binary, you're either through or not. In the demo especially, you could think youd lost a battle and end up powering through in the end, the outcome of each situation all over the pitch was on a knife edge till the moment the outcome was decided.

In terms of breaking through teams, in a lot of matches, especially premier league, teams dont often find it difficult to break through the opposition midfield and get in to the final third, even when teams are defending with a middle block. It's often the decision making that let's lesser teams down in the final third, not that they cant get through the opposition.
I'm a liverpool fan and even with our pressing being so efficient, teams still get through our midfield regularly. But often it's great back line defending or poor decision making that prevents goals.
The demo especially allowed for this freedom. It opened up the pitch so that there was freedom to build attacks vertically, yet also compressed play enough to not make it too easy.
1.00 also does this.
1.01 felt like it fell back on the pes rubber banding model of compressing time and space artificially so you felt like the opposition was swamping you on superstar just when you were about to do something meaningful.
Click to expand...


Absolutely spot on..

I said early on there was a danger of over cooking the gameplay..

Atleast out of the box your not stuck with the same overly passive AI at times of the demo..Or the bugs and response issues..

Version 1.0 is as smooth as butter.Its a complete product and optimised code.

I’m only interested in a descent offline game..Patches for me personally just don’t warrant how much the gameplay negates for the sake of kits and faces..

I can import badges and templates myself..

Doesn’t mean some won’t prefer the changes though..
 
Last edited:
Right, couldn't help myself and went back to the Out of the Box version once more because the game was really starting to just feel like a chore.

It's just so, so much more fun to play. The downside is that it's just too easy, regardless of the team you are and the team you are against. At this point, i'm wondering if Konami just panicked a bit because of this and added this extra layer of tightness just to make things more difficult. I honestly don't know why they would change the gameplay otherwise.

So i'm at a loss really. To be honest, i've put a serious amount of hours in since yesterday and now my thinking is just to give it a break until Tuesday when some OF's drop, or even Thursday when the update drops.
 
About two weeks ago i meant to make a YouTube Video where i'd talk about what (in my view) makes the demo so fun and addictive, even after my 40 hours then...the two things were AI and Randomness/Unpredictability.

I ended up not doing the video because somehow i fell for the illusion, that the game this time simply could not be butchered because everyone loved it (i'm only on board since 2016) - yet here we are and exactely one of the things happened, that i was afraid of: the Looseness/Randomness/Unpredictability has been toned down.

I'm not even sure if theres a point in posting this, but i've spent a lot of time back then trying to come up with words for why this element adds so much to the game...and now with this element being toned down i feel i need to get it out here just for the sake of it... I ordered a physical copy so i'm good to go with Version 1.0, but it's just a missed opportunity for Konami imo... i'll not post the entire script, just the relevant part.

So here we go, the (relevant) part of my script that i wrote about the DEMO-Code:
____________________________________________________________________________________________
"The biggest difference in the moment to moment gameplay compared to PES 19 is how unpredictable everything feels. Have you ever noticed how, when you play a game long enough, you unconsciously start to remember a lot of patterns of the game? In the case of a footy game, I’m not talking strictly about how the AI attacks, but everything from what angle you best tackle the opponent from all the way to how the ball usually deflects and where on the pitch it lands. Once you know all that, you might fall into a sort of autopilot-mode because you can’t really be surprised anymore. Where PES 2019 felt like it was set on rails and with a certain number of possible outcomes for every type of situation, PES 2020 feels unpredictable at all times and it is because of several things, of which one of them is the ball – The ball this year feels like it’s more disconnected from the player’s feet than ever before. You can see it in so many different occasions. Passes from both you and the AI have a lot wider spectrum to go astray. The ball can deflect at anytime anywhere which can lead to chances out of nowhere and this adds a very organic feeling to the game. Another thing is a player making a bad touch, both when he is under pressure or even when he has all the time in the world.

I have already mentioned the amount of variety in the attacking AI (not posted here) and obviously this has a big impact on the unpredictability to the game as well. But it’s not just in the attack where the AI is unpredictable. The AI in the build up will do different things as well and those things might work one time but not the other time – while defending I might get lucky or I might not – the beauty of unpredictability in PES 2020 is that you never know what’s going to happen, both for you and the AI. And thus the game requires you to be attentive and flexible because you’ll have to adapt whenever something doesn’t unfold the way you expected it to. There is just so much tension all the time, even now where I’m just playing 5 minute friendly matches that don’t mean a damn thing. The thought of having this sort of tension in a Master League is like heaven.
In PES 2019 the match seemed to unfold however the AI intended, no matter what I tried I just couldn’t really have the impact I wanted. The result were that almost all matches felt the same, they felt very predictable and as a result repetitive because the game felt like it was on rails. I didn’t have any control over it and I hated it so much. In PES 2020 on the other hand, I feel like anything can happen at any time, I don’t really have any control over that, but…I feel free.
Anything can happen in football and these things can change the tide of a game, they can put you into an advantage or disadvantage and it amazes me how, so far, pes 2020 captures this and how it keeps the games tense, without making it feel unfair or tiresome.

So to wrap it up, the combination of a solid, varied AI together with the freedom and randomness of the moment to moment gameplay creates a highly dynamic game of football where anything can happen at any time, both for you and the AI. Now, compare this with the “On-Rails-Feeling” and the repetitive AI of PES 2019 and I’m sure you too can see the potential of how this gameplay could really add to the longevity of the offline Modes once PES 2020 releases in September. That is…if Konami doesn’t change these two things. The game still has its issues which require twaking. Even though the AI is promising, there are things like the general passivness or the lack of awareness of the AI. And those things should be refined before the game launches. But I am confident that this issues can be addressed for the final version of the game. I just really hope that Konami doesn’t limit either the Variety of the AI in general or the loosenes of the ball. PES 2019 was bad in both areas which made the game play out like on rails, it was boring and repetitive despite a solid gameplay foundation. PES 2020 on the other hand has both and - despite its issues -plays fantastically at the moment and i feel like this is mostly due to the combination of these two things...having only one of them is already good, but having both of them working together delievers something entirely else - something special.
 
Has anyone tried legendary difficutly yet on Version 1.0 ? I understand that SS apparently is too easy, so maybe if Legend Difficulty is an actual alternative (rather than a unrealistic game of football that it used to be in 19), we might end up with a challenge in V. 1.0 ?
 
I don’t know what’s best for me. To continue reading this topic or to stop, play the game when it will unlock on Tuesday and comeback here... tough choice.

What i’ve read so far it kinda breaks my heart because i loved that much the demo, loved the number of fouls, the physicality, the freedom of the ball..
 
ionutt said:
I don’t know what’s best for me. To continue reading this topic or to stop, play the game when it will unlock on Tuesday and comeback here... tough choice.

What i’ve read so far it kinda breaks my heart because i loved that much the demo, loved the number of fouls, the physicality, the freedom of the ball..
Click to expand...
It's probably best to form your own opinion after a few hours with the game.

Am I right in thinking that digital download owner's won't be able to play version 1.0 at all?
 
Surely Konami could maybe find a happy medium between the two versions in the future? I mean, they've drastically changed it once so hopefully they'll see or acknowledge they've over cooked it and work on rebalancing again?
 
goalgerd said:
Same old Konami, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, glad I cancelled my pre order now they just can't be trusted to do the right thing
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ you haven't even played the full game and you're complaining, play the game then make judgements, Other people may have different experiences than you might have when playing the game.
 
Chris Davies said:
Adam himself tweeted that he noticed less fouls in the full version (and having played it, it's a fact, and I don't use the word "fact" often):

(He mentions the ML not being so bad for it, but it is, trust me!)


With this in mind, and having spoken to a few people on the inside about what Konami listen to - I'm going to start a poll through the Evo-Web Twitter account, a few days after release (pointless doing it now because it's not technically out yet) - and if you want it changing back, we are going to have to make it go as viral as we can.

I'm telling you this now, so that you're ready when I tweet it out (over at @evo_web), if you want to help us get it some attention.

Whether we can get a YouTuber or something to retweet it and help us out or something, I don't know - because are those guys really going to give a shit about fouls? But let's give it a go.
Click to expand...
I’m well up for this. It feel like we’re so close to something amazing and that tantalising glimpse we were given in the demo makes it all the more frustrating.
I’ve started to tweet Adam and Official Pes with a little video every time I see a foul in game that should have been given but wasn’t. Using #morefoulsplease #pes2020 Adam always says that videos are helpful to feedback so hopefully it’ll be viewed positively.
 
i think we are losing perspective, there does seem a reduction in fouls which is disappointing but there are fouls. PES 17 was still my favourite football game to date and some games i got 1 or zero fouls.

The AI can be beaten on top player just look at my broadcasts so not sure why people are saying its almost impossible.

Its still without a doubt for me the best football game since a long time as a full released game
 
I just tried Barcelona - Real Madrid with both teams having Klashman's tactics from PES 2019 applied. I'm going to try more teams but I had a really good game. 5 fouls committed by Barcelona and 3 fouls committed by me as Real Madrid. Midfield on both sides felt more compact as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom