eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

probably konami doesn't have much to show about dlc4 so they are not even bother to show something on social media
Yep, we are already fed up with those faces
I don't think dlc4 would have any surprise or something worth to mention
 
xicpanad said:
I also had a good run when I moved to Pro. Did a full season and I was ok with it, but on the next season, it was almost as if something kicked in, and I was playing on TP or Superstar again. Might seem a bit weird, but that was my feeling. That cpu goal from a free kick or later on the match that I dominated was starting to get very common on most of my matches, and this is after I kept creating clear chances but somehow the ball always found a way to miss the target.

I also don´t like to use the word scripting, so when I do it I mean the way the software reacts to your inputs and to the overal flow of each match. It´s there, and I agree there has to be some sort of programing to make matches interesting, but this is just too much. On older PES there was also some scripting on higher levels, but it would help the CPU instead of lowering your players abilities. When we created chances, they were real chances and we knew everything could happen, including scoring a goal when it seemed right, natural... with the odd miss here and there.
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Fair enough that's strange. As for free kicks, that's just how they are in general imo. Just too easy to score so I definitely feel your frustration when you concede a free kick cause it feels like you've given away a penalty.

One thing I noticed is that shots tend to miss more when an opposition player in really close to you. And when you're dominating a match, your opponent is usually parking the bus so there's always someone near you when you're in shooting positions.

I wouldn't call that scripting though. I'd rather call that bad programming. Sports games have done it this way forever. I cannot say whether or not there's coding in the engine to 'keep things interesting' but I can say that things the AI reacting immediately to your inputs and the in engine algorithms favoring the AI more is how higher difficulties are produced.

Also your players' attributes are never lowered. The truth is the AI on your team isn't particularly capable to begin with and when you increase the difficulty the flaws begin to stand out more. That's it tbf.

StriderX9 said:
I can't get back into this series until they have more variation in shooting, movement, passing etc. Take the special dribble off the Right Stick as well.
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Actually one of the things I have enjoy about this game is how varied the shots are. At least when I shoot lol. I don't really have issue with the passing either. Movement I agree with you though.
 
ThomasGOAL said:
13th february
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I'm going to surprise this patch with some sweet red roses and a box of chocolates when it arrives.

I would take it to dinner but as I've only got digital version that'd mean booking a table for me and my PS4 at the 5-star restaurant and having dinner with a PS4 would just be weird.

I could get the disc version though. Decisions, decisions.
 
Flame said:
probably konami doesn't have much to show about dlc4 so they are not even bother to show something on social media
Yep, we are already fed up with those faces
I don't think dlc4 would have any surprise or something worth to mention
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Zirkzee‘s new face?! ;)

But yeah. You are right, imo.
 
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I want to share some cool goals I scored in my first season in the League mode (two more in my next post):


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I'm still enjoying this game by the way of the League mode with Nottingham Forest. I’m in my second season, playing in the EPL. I switched to Top Player difficulty. Initially, I struggled with the change of difficulty. It didn't help that the 3rd to 7th league matches were against Tottenham, Man City, Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal! I got 3 points out of those games; beating Arsenal 2-0, which wasn't easy. I think I'm adjusting to difficulty after 10 league matches. I'm currently in 11th place. I believe I'm going to be okay for the season. Also, I'm doing well in the FA Cup; I beat Barnsley and Leicester City, to earn a 3rd round match with Chelsea.

Playing the League mode gives me an understanding why Konami might have programmed some kind of script into the Mater League. In my first season (playing in the Championship) I managed to dominate the league on Professional difficulty. In my second season, I've managed to adjust to the difficulty in only 12 games and with no fear of being relegated. I think Konami adds the scripting to the Master League, so that the player doesn't easily adjust to the game, which will quickly lead to dominating league/cups in a short space of time. If you think about it, when you're play ~50 games in a season, that’s plenty of games to adjust to the difficulty you’re playing in. Eventually, you’re going to start dominating games, thus that’ll lead to the Master League becoming easy and boring. So, Konami decided to program a script into the Master League as a sort of curve ball.

I think this “script”, is cheap, because it seems to lower your controlled players abilities, while artificially giving the COM an advantage. Konami should implement a difficult system for the Master League, that’s similar to what Capcom did for Resident Evil 4. Here’s a YouTube video explaining Resident Evil 4’s difficulty system:


The way I would suggest Konami goes about this, is by creating an A.I. that can detect the player’s strength over a period of time. The COM can then counteract against it, depending on their strength. So for example, let’s say that over 20 league matches the player is averaging 5 goals a game. The A.I. can detect that the player is good at scoring/attacking. So, the A.I. has to either play more defensive formation, have a DMF/CB aggressively mark your CF/AMF or play a counterattacking style where they’ll let you attack and quickly hit you on the counterattack. Another example, if you have only conceded 8 goals in 20 matches, the A.I. can detect that you’re good defensively. To counteract this A.I. could play a long ball style to get the ball over your defenders, play a slower game to breakdown the defense or just use a more attacking formation.

It has to be sophisticated though. I don’t want to see a case of where you beat a team 6-0 in one game, then in the next, the COM team is playing 6 defenders in the back lol! It has to be something the A.I. detects over a period of time. So, if you keep use a WGs to attack in the flanks over the course of the season, teams should start playing their SB defensively to counteract this. Your player still have their abilities, there’s no handicapping and no overpowering of the COM players. It’s just the A.I. counteracting your strength as a player. Also the way the COM goes about this should vary from team to team. E.g. Man City should aggressively counterattack your offensive strength, while Bournemouth should just park the bus and hope for a draw (or sneaky goal).
 
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@Stringer I can't comment on scripting, but I can certainly say that team spirit is a ridiculous mechanic that ruins the experience especially in the short term. It feels like the mode is meant to play like a rags to riches tale and TS is there to make every save play out like that no matter what team you choose.

It's as if they want it to be a story mode instead of a career mode, if that makes sense.

And as far as investing in an AI that is more sophisticated, that won't happen as long as human v human multiplayer is the priority.
 
Maybe we can adress it somehow.

I mean, if it´s really TS, that is screwing up the ML experience, there should be an option to turn it off, or better yet...take it out of the system.
Didn´t fans already manage to get some features in or out of the game, by adressing it to the dev team?
I thought, there was something, but I can´t remember.
 
aderow said:
@Stringer I can't comment on scripting, but I can certainly say that team spirit is a ridiculous mechanic that ruins the experience especially in the short term. It feels like the mode is meant to play like a rags to riches tale and TS is there to make every save play out like that no matter what team you choose.
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The more I think about "Team Spirit", the angrier I get.

So I've started a 2vAI ML with my dad. He's old-school - think Sam Allardyce with dementia. As soon as he gets the ball, he's looking for a runner or a target-man.

I set the tactics to suit (long ball, counter, players spread out), I set the player training to suit, pick the players who are most equipped for that style of play.

TS drops massively - understandable. We're telling a team (Everton) to play a new way, "plan A". But here's the thing. I keep the original tactics as "plan B", and guess what.

If we use "plan A" against an average team (or better), every short pass goes straight to the AI, or is hit too hard and goes out of play (they're never, ever underhit in any PES game I can recall).

As soon as I change to "plan B", mid-game, every short pass starts magically making it no matter what (even if there is a defender in the way of the pass) and we can string 10+ passes together.

It's so forced, and so fake. Instead of passes failing because the players are too spread out, they fail because the players become idiots, and there's nothing you can do but watch it happen.

And the funniest thing - if we're playing a WORSE team than us, the passes make it however we play. Not because their marking is worse - but because our players' technique is as good as it should be all the time.

chiefrocka4real said:
Maybe we can adress it somehow.

I mean, if it´s really TS, that is screwing up the ML experience, there should be an option to turn it off, or better yet...take it out of the system.
Didn´t fans already manage to get some features in or out of the game, by adressing it to the dev team?
I thought, there was something, but I can´t remember.
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I love the idea of TS from a transfers point of view - you have to buy players who suit your style, and that's something football games didn't really do until PES added TS - but from a gameplay point of view, it breaks the game. No other word for it. It's not realistic, it doesn't impact certain attributes or certain ways of play, it just turns your players into Sunday League footballers on heavy sedatives.

Even when it's in your favour, it breaks the game, because you start playing like Gods!

If Konami can't add it in a realistic way, we need the option to turn it off.
 
Chris Davies said:
The more I think about "Team Spirit", the angrier I get.

So I've started a 2vAI ML with my dad. He's old-school - think Sam Allardyce with dementia. As soon as he gets the ball, he's looking for a runner or a target-man.

I set the tactics to suit (long ball, counter, players spread out), I set the player training to suit, pick the players who are most equipped for that style of play.

TS drops massively - understandable. We're telling a team (Everton) to play a new way, "plan A". But here's the thing. I keep the original tactics as "plan B", and guess what.

If we use "plan A" against an average team (or better), every short pass goes straight to the AI, or is hit too hard and goes out of play (they're never, ever underhit in any PES game I can recall).

As soon as I change to "plan B", mid-game, every short pass starts magically making it no matter what (even if there is a defender in the way of the pass) and we can string 10+ passes together.

It's so forced, and so fake. Instead of passes failing because the players are too spread out, they fail because the players become idiots, and there's nothing you can do but watch it happen.

And the funniest thing - if we're playing a WORSE team than us, the passes make it however we play. Not because their marking is worse - but because our players' technique is as good as it should be all the time.


I love the idea of TS from a transfers point of view - you have to buy players who suit your style, and that's something football games didn't really do until PES added TS - but from a gameplay point of view, it breaks the game. No other word for it. It's not realistic, it doesn't impact certain attributes or certain ways of play, it just turns your players into Sunday League footballers on heavy sedatives.

Even when it's in your favour, it breaks the game, because you start playing like Gods!

If Konami can't add it in a realistic way, we need the option to turn it off.
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Chris first of all, just for the semiology* (i hope it has the same parallel meaning as in greek) the PES of PS2 and PS3 era had the TEAMWORK, which was practically 110 links, every player had 10 links with his rest teammates.
But most important, the first game to have a mechanism like TS, was FIFA, either 06, or 08, or 10 can't remember, which was the "TEAM CHEMISTRY" and had massive effect on the team as soon as it was increased.

As for the example with the gameplans and the TS you describe, i agree 1.000.000% and i shocking realised it by coinsidence today morning, while i was reading the MyClub topic on our greek forum. It seems that the affinity of every player with tactics, the familiarity bars every player in Master League has, that defies the TS, those bars from 1 to 99 for every tactical instruction, COUNTER-POSSESION, SHORT PASS-LONG PASS, they tend to have HIGHER PRIORITY than player stats, I.E. if you have a player with 99 short pass accuracy, but your team has long pass build up style, the CPU makes your player give FALSE SHORT PASSES just for the sake of mechanic laws. And now that i got suspicious, i assume that maybe the mud-effect in fast players, that run and turn so slow, maybe is affected by something similar, I.E. he prefers to attack from the centre and you have tactic, attack from wide. I mean maybe this is the way the game engine has to show us that "WE ARE PLAYING IT WRONG"!!!! (but in a good way). I mean it is like an in-PES-UNIVERSE entropy to slow down people from start smashing the CPU 5-0 , 6-0 etc.

An other theory i have, is that since TS was introduced in PES 2016, although in 16& 17 it worked much better in ML, i am not sure if it was initially designed for MyClub or for Master LEague. Cause in MyCLUB it makes sense to separate the player A who has attacking-trio RONALDO-MESSI-NEYMAR from player B who has attacking-trio (guess what!).....RONALDO-MESSI-NEYMAR. I mean in the MC mode it makes sense as a holding back mechanic, in the ML mode vs the AI and as it works right now, it does not fit so good.

Finally returning to the mud-effect and stats denial, i remember that PES was always so rigid with such things working like this. Even on PES 5 or 6, i still remember the problem i had with players like Walcott, who were CF and SMF but not SS, when i was using him as SS, he used to run slower than his speed stats and was forcing me constantly to go outside to EDIT menu and edit their playable positions. I mean that it seems thats how pes development team or KONAMI do things work in their football games.

Another example of rigidness, last month i created a player, editing over a fake CMF one, who was RMF with 80+ OPR. He had over 80+ on all MF positions. For some reason the CPU was never picking him in starting 11 and in his team stats screen, i saw that he had 0 matches played. Than i realised that by accident i forgot to assign his playable postion RMF to A, it had C, so becase he was registered RMF but he didn't have A or B playable position on RMF, the CPU was constantly leaving him in bench. It didn't even use him on the other positions that had B, the green colour on the gameplan screen.
 
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rockstrongo said:
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The funny part with the faces is, they keep some scans from very old PES like maybe 2010 and it looks weird in game. Or some player are from 2015-2016 and it is so obvious cause they look like washed out and their heads have a strange shape like you pressed it from the sides with two bricks!!! Take for example Lass Diarra and Susaeta. Their faces are almost square-shaped, cause it is obvious they were scanned and created in a previous PES that used different ratios. Or some players who had face in PES games with other models-size and their head are much bigger in relation to their body size.
 
slamsoze said:
The funny part with the faces is, they keep some scans from very old PES like maybe 2010 and it looks weird in game. Or some player are from 2015-2016 and it is so obvious cause they look like washed out and their heads have a strange shape like you pressed it from the sides with two bricks!!! Take for example Lass Diarra and Susaeta. Their faces are almost square-shaped, cause it is obvious they were scanned and created in a previous PES that used different ratios. Or some players who had face in PES games with other models-size and their head are much bigger in relation to their body size.
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Yes,some stuff looks weird as hell,the generic ones are pretty bad as well.
Not that particular on faces,more looking fw to 4.0 patch so I can start playing for real
 
chiefrocka4real said:
I mean, if it´s really TS, that is screwing up the ML experience, there should be an option to turn it off, or better yet...take it out of the system.
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Been saying that since I first started playing ML in 2017.

Chris Davies said:
The more I think about "Team Spirit", the angrier I get.

So I've started a 2vAI ML with my dad. He's old-school - think Sam Allardyce with dementia. As soon as he gets the ball, he's looking for a runner or a target-man.

I set the tactics to suit (long ball, counter, players spread out), I set the player training to suit, pick the players who are most equipped for that style of play.

TS drops massively - understandable. We're telling a team (Everton) to play a new way, "plan A". But here's the thing. I keep the original tactics as "plan B", and guess what.

If we use "plan A" against an average team (or better), every short pass goes straight to the AI, or is hit too hard and goes out of play (they're never, ever underhit in any PES game I can recall).

As soon as I change to "plan B", mid-game, every short pass starts magically making it no matter what (even if there is a defender in the way of the pass) and we can string 10+ passes together.

It's so forced, and so fake. Instead of passes failing because the players are too spread out, they fail because the players become idiots, and there's nothing you can do but watch it happen.

And the funniest thing - if we're playing a WORSE team than us, the passes make it however we play. Not because their marking is worse - but because our players' technique is as good as it should be all the time.


I love the idea of TS from a transfers point of view - you have to buy players who suit your style, and that's something football games didn't really do until PES added TS - but from a gameplay point of view, it breaks the game. No other word for it. It's not realistic, it doesn't impact certain attributes or certain ways of play, it just turns your players into Sunday League footballers on heavy sedatives.

Even when it's in your favour, it breaks the game, because you start playing like Gods!

If Konami can't add it in a realistic way, we need the option to turn it off.
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Team spirit is great in theory. But I think they need to completely rethink how it's implemented because right now it's done poorly imo

@slamsoze the game struggles with logic across the board. I remember playing for Atletico in BAL in 2017 and Griezmann was forever on the bench because Simeone played a 442 with 2 CFs and Griezmann was an SS.

It's a shame that what should be the premier offline experiences struggle with AI logic in regards to transfers, squad selection, as well as in match tactical decisions. And then you add team spirit into the mix in ML.

orangebard said:
Here's a little tip - If you plan on changing a team's tactics/formation when you start a new Master League, make sure you change it in edit mode before setting up your ML - it can negate the drop in Team spirit.
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Thing is I didn't know exactly how I wanted to play until well into my save lol
 
@Stringer liked video nr. 4, and how you fooled the defender (who’s momentum takes him of target), a lot! 👍
I wish the future would bring more of that organic behavior relying on player stats+movement only (at least prioritized)!!
 
aderow said:
Thing is I didn't know exactly how I wanted to play until well into my save lol
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I can understand that. I often find myself restarting a few times at the start of the year either after the first option file drops or if I've forgotten or learned there's something I want to edit about my created player or teammates.
 
orangebard said:
I can understand that. I often find myself restarting a few times at the start of the year either after the first option file drops or if I've forgotten or learned there's something I want to edit about my created player or teammates.
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I try really hard not to because then it becomes me in football manager all over again where I can't get a long term save going because I'm always starting over
 
Even though I don't play this game every day, too busy being obsessed with Division 2,it still plays great every time I do.
League Mode TP 20 min PA0 with Lecce.
Really enjoying balancing above the relegation zone atm.
Two games tonight
Parma 0-0 Lecce
Lecce 1-0 Sampdoria (90+1 winner)
Think I'll stick with this even after the patch (though I'll restart as usuall).
League mode has made my football game(s) fun again.
 
I think the game is just too fast, even -1 game speed is too much for me. There's nothing fun about the game right now.

I hope the game speed is changed to a more realistic direction. I like the slower pace.
 
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