Evoweb Gameplay Lab, FIFA 20 (Frostbite FIFAs?)

Rafter84 said:
Any chance for an updated version with more lines?
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Here is the last version of the cheat table I have.
It is just two days younger than the previous version, so don't expect too much novelty in there. Mostly Defensive Baseline variables.
 

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papinho81 said:
Feel free to add them.
The tutorial provided by @manmachine in the first pages of this thread was good enough to make me, a cheat engine noob, manage to add them on my first try. Also you can basically copy paste already existing files and changes things the way you need (mostly the reference array of bites in the script, the variable structure, and the offsets for the variables values).
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Oh, I didn't understand I could add stuff myself... Crazy! I would have saved a lot of time! I guess I will try to add all high-impact lines in September now...
 
Rafter84 said:
Oh, I didn't understand I could add stuff myself... Crazy! I would have saved a lot of time! I guess I will try to add all high-impact lines in September now...
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Yes you can. And if you want, once you added some files you can send your CT to me so I can add them to the main file. It is what we used to do with @manmachine .
 
papinho81 said:
Yes you can. And if you want, once you added some files you can send your CT to me so I can add them to the main file. It is what we used to do with @manmachine .
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I definitely will, once back. I think I have found critical lines when it comes to player and animation speed. But I need extensive testing sessions... It's always like that: 10 minutes to find something that seems to work. 10 days to find a way to make it REALLY work.... 😅
 
Hoping to have an update out in the next couple of days, I feel like I've managed to slow down the movement of players to a good level without causing gameplay breakdowns. It's been a combination of files, mainly in GP_Actor_Movement. I think it's quite smooth now without being sluggish. I feel a good benefit from this slower movement really helps to show more of a difference between good players and bad.

I'm now trying to work on what is causing the skating feeling. I'm not sure how much this can be fixed but I'm confident it can be improved to a decent level. I compared to PES and when you stop on PES it's quite sudden, whereas on FIFA you keep 'sliding' across for a while. I found reducing the 'distance to stop at full speed' has helped. I think more files in GP_Actor_Action will help further. I also suspect some of the physics files may help, potentially the slide friction.
 
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That sound awesome.

I would say that Skating happen because of lack of transiction animation and lack of a "gravity" parameter which avoid the player flies over the pitch. I watched some videos from FIFA 21 with more transiction animations in ball controls. We will see...

In PES, when you press Shoot/Pass, the player do a preparation animation, with all the foot steps he need. In FIFA the reactions is inmediately...you press Pass and the player pass wherever he was and without any transiction animation.

I always said FIFA has too many animations per second.

If you find a solution...we would spend the hours in FIFA 20 instead of FIFA 21...until Paul get his tool working.

PD: In a few days, Paul will know if his tool works in a Frostbite 21 Game or not yet (getting the desencryption Key). Madden 21 is released in 10 days...
 
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6ons1 said:
That sound awesome.

I would say that Skating happen because of lack of transiction animation and lack of a "gravity" parameter which avoid the player flies over the pitch. I watched some videos from FIFA 21 with more transiction animations in ball controls. We will see...

In PES, when you press Shoot/Pass, the player do a preparing animation, with all the foot steps he need. In FIFA the reactions is inmediately...you press Pass and the player pass wherever he was and without any transiction animation.

I always said FIFA has too many animations per second.

If you find a solution...we would spend the hours in FIFA 20 instead of FIFA 21...until Paul get his tool working.

PD: In a few days, Paul will know if his tool works in a Frostbite 21 Game or not yet (getting the desencryption Key). Madden 21 is released in 10 days...
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Thanks man, they're really good points. Sometimes trying to figure out what the problem even is is challenging enough!
 
I had a testing session yesterday night, playing around with the markingspeedadjustementbasedonattackerthreat (how many point is that at the scrabble?) variable or something of that flavour (typing from my phone) inside the marking speed file. By default the variable has all the Y values set to 0 except the two last ones, y6=0.85 and y7=0.9.
I filled the other y with decreasing values (0.8, 0.7, 0.6, 0.5, 0.3, 0.1) and I think it really improved the involvement of AI players into defending. It felt a bit like the overload the ball side tactic with sometime three players in the vicinity of the ball carrier. My teammate with the secondary arrow was interested about the ball carrier without me using secondary press. It felt like I was not defending alone.

The main negative, and it is a big one, it increases quite significantly the overall pace of the game.
 
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Anth James said:
Hoping to have an update out in the next couple of days, I feel like I've managed to slow down the movement of players to a good level without causing gameplay breakdowns. It's been a combination of files, mainly in GP_Actor_Movement. I think it's quite smooth now without being sluggish. I feel a good benefit from this slower movement really helps to show more of a difference between good players and bad.

I'm now trying to work on what is causing the skating feeling. I'm not sure how much this can be fixed but I'm confident it can be improved to a decent level. I compared to PES and when you stop on PES it's quite sudden, whereas on FIFA you keep 'sliding' across for a while. I found reducing the 'distance to stop at full speed' has helped. I think more files in GP_Actor_Action will help further. I also suspect some of the physics files may help, potentially the slide friction.
Click to expand...

I think it's the slide friction. Try the default value and you will see the difference.

Can't share my settings anymore, but if you want to slow down players to realistic values, set Max acceleration to 1, then actionintensitytoacceleration table from 0,0001 to 1 in 10 incremental steps and same thing for actionintensitytospeed.

Another thing that's key to understand is that player speed has effects on ball physics and speed.

Also, ball physics is not ruled just by Ball Physics and general physics. But every single Touch contact physics line (shoot, pass, trap...) all must be matched accordingly.

You can have higher restitutions for trapping and lower contact velocity for passing. And this will change a lot how the game feels in terms of speed and realism.

I have lower all contact velocity to 0,0001 and it feels great, maybe a bit too slow.

Haven't shared mods or projects because they all feel like work in progress, and one thing breaks another, so one fix needs another fix...

When I get closer to a final all-in-one mod of my own, I'll share it and we'll see if anybody likes it... 😅 And if yes, then we'll see if more mods can be "merged"...
 
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Oh, I forgot to mention Min/max speed and min/max speed when fatigued, in all 3 variations of slow, normal and speed.

I think these are the only values that affect "gameplay speed".

I have personally made default values for Slow+fatigued my normal speed. And lowered just by 1-2 for fatigued. I gave fast values +2, low values -2.

But I play on normal, so only really care about those values. I have found those are the "slowest values that still work"
 
papinho81 said:
I had a testing session yesterday night, playing around with the markingspeedadjustementbasedonattackerthreat (how many point is that at the scrabble?) variable or something of that flavour (typing from my phone) inside the marking speed file. By default the variable has all the Y values set to 0 except the two last ones, y6=0.85 and y7=0.9.
I filled the other y with decreasing values (0.8, 0.7, 0.6, 0.5, 0.3, 0.1) and I think it really improved the involvement of AI players into defending. It felt a bit like the overload the ball side tactic with sometime three players in the vicinity of the ball carrier. My teammate with the secondary arrow was interested about the ball carrier without me using secondary press. It felt like I was not defending alone.

The main negative, and it is a big one, it increases quite significantly the overall pace of the game.
Click to expand...
I went to try this and hadn't even realised that I used almost the exact same values already in my sim mod pt3 haha! I think I decreased from 0.6 - 0.1. I think it helps for sure.
 
Rafter84 said:
I think it's the slide friction. Try the default value and you will see the difference.

Can't share my settings anymore, but if you want to slow down players to realistic values, set Max acceleration to 1, then actionintensitytoacceleration table from 0,0001 to 1 in 10 incremental steps and same thing for actionintensitytospeed.

Another thing that's key to understand is that player speed has effects on ball physics and speed.

Also, ball physics is not ruled just by Ball Physics and general physics. But every single Touch contact physics line (shoot, pass, trap...) all must be matched accordingly.

You can have higher restitutions for trapping and lower contact velocity for passing. And this will change a lot how the game feels in terms of speed and realism.

I have lower all contact velocity to 0,0001 and it feels great, maybe a bit too slow.

Haven't shared mods or projects because they all feel like work in progress, and one thing breaks another, so one fix needs another fix...

When I get closer to a final all-in-one mod of my own, I'll share it and we'll see if anybody likes it... 😅 And if yes, then we'll see if more mods can be "merged"...
Click to expand...
I gave this a go before. Not sure if I implemented correctly but I noticed both teams 'switched off' a lot more for some reason (I wonder if I put the values in wrong). It does feel less erratic in terms of general player movement (which is a really good thing and I think comes from acceleration). Those Action Intensity files and base speed/acceleration files are strange, I can't quite figure out their impact (I've been playing with them for a while and haven't made any real progress).

I think our original thoughts on slowing down speeds remain true though. If you slow down acceleration and/or speed much (with sliders I think below 50 is when it starts) it triggers passive behaviours and interactions with the AI (which is why I think it's more obvious on Slow speed). There's not quite that intensity for the ball or in collisions etc and it's just not as smooth (which I think is a positive of FIFA). It's really frustrating! I tried playing around quickly with the sprint speed table to achieve a slower progression and same with acceleration as I hoped that it wouldn't trigger the same reaction from the AI but I need to try for longer to see. I suspect this 'jogging' the AI does could be a particular threshold where the AI deems up to a particular speed a jog. So when the values are all lower it remains in the 'jog' for longer. I wonder if lowering jog speed could see this eliminated or at least reduced.

Hopefully you manage to get there with it! I've managed to slow turns and dribbling down (and skill moves a little) which I think helps slow the general feeling of movement and animations on the ball, whilst keeping the smooth feeling, but that quickness in animation when running (and lack of transition) is still there (as pointed out by @6ons1) which is why I haven't yet made any changes to speed or acceleration.

From what I’ve read it sounds like this could be an element that’s been improved in 21 and if the jogging behaviour is gone as reported then that would give us a much better base to work with! Fingers crossed we get the tools we need to mod!
 
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Interesting your discussion about slowing down the gameplay guys!
Yesterday I went on an opposite road. I have increased the four acceleration values from the actor movement file (those that are set to 0.005) and I set them all to 0.01 together with the walk speed back at 0.18 (instead of 0.1). It looked quite bad in term of players movement and the responsiveness probability match the wettest dream of the FUTters. On the other hand the way players reacted to the danger, tracked their opponents, covered open space felt really great. They were a lot of mistimed challenges with fouls and also missed passes by me and the cpu. It felt quite alive, but of course animations looked disgusting. If we could get that level of AI players commitment with realistic movement, that would be a massive step in the right direction for me.
 
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papinho81 said:
Interesting your discussion about slowing down the gameplay guys!
Yesterday I went on an opposite road. I have increased the four acceleration values from the actor movement file (those that are set to 0.005) and I set them all to 0.01 together with the walk speed back at 0.18 (instead of 0.1). It looked quite bad in term of players movement and the responsiveness probability match the wettest dream of the FUTters. On the other hand the way players reacted to the danger, tracked their opponents, covered open space felt really great. They were a lot of mistimed challenges with fouls and also missed passes by me and the cpu. It felt quite alive, but of course animations looked disgusting. If we could get that level of AI players commitment with realistic movement, that would be a massive step in the right direction for me.
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Very interesting! I agree, that would be great. I’ll give it a go for sure. I tried lowering sprint and increasing acceleration today (I guess a middle ground between both approaches haha) but it wasn’t quite what I’d hoped! It’s so weird how the gameplay changes so much based on speed.
 
papinho81 said:
My thought exactly. If the actor variables can balance the increase from the movement one, it would be fantastic.
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Giving this a try now. Played a few mins only but I see what you're saying! It's very 'alive'! It's like the AI actually wants to run instead of being forced to :D. It really shows how much acceleration dictates way too much of the AI mentality in FIFA. Very interesting. It's obviously super fast...I'll see what I can do in terms of balancing.
 
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I'm doing some testing in Passing Lanes and Passing Lane Player Attributes (both under Positioning). Still need to test more, but I just halved all values under the Y axis for all files (aside from the player speed adjustment file). I'm seeing players move into position to block passing lanes much faster, which is helping with the midfield game. Midfielders seem to retreat less also. So far results are positive.
 
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@papinho81 You know how you've been looking at the rundistancefromformationx and z files. Have you seen how in Support Speed one says SupportSpeedModbyZBallDist and the other is SupportSpeedModbyXTravelDist. I wonder if that's explaining what X and Z stands for? Based on your tests would that make sense? I had a look at them before and like you said I can pretty much see that increasing Y creates more movement and decreasing causes less. Defenders stop tracking their runners abruptly with a decrease.
 
papinho81 said:
I am not sure I have added a single variable since the last update, I will check.

The time I have for gaming and testing is close to zero this days.

I had a small testing session yesterday though and I tried to adjust the d line height using the modifier. But I am still not sure if I should increase or decrease the value to get higher lines. I really could not see any striking difference in the d line height between low and high values. It seemed to me midfielders were pushed upper with high values and vice versa but not the back line. Does anyone got how this one work?

This last couple of month I ve spent all my testing sessions on the positioning files and my progress are close to zero. I wish I could manage to get my cdm in the stands like @Topaz managed to do times ago, for the sake of learning something at least. @Topaz if you read this... teach me!
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Out of frustration of modding FIFA 20 and the game still being a pile of crap I decided to uninstall it fully. But seems like FIFA 21 will also have the fixed midfield positioning problem so hoping I can play around that there. I can't recall what exactly I changed but it was based of Paul's early gameplay changes which I was messing about with.
 
Anth James said:
@papinho81 You know how you've been looking at the rundistancefromformationx and z files. Have you seen how in Support Speed one says SupportSpeedModbyZBallDist and the other is SupportSpeedModbyXTravelDist. I wonder if that's explaining what X and Z stands for? Based on your tests would that make sense? I had a look at them before and like you said I can pretty much see that increasing Y creates more movement and decreasing causes less. Defenders stop tracking their runners abruptly with a decrease.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the late answer, I ve close to 0 time.
I can't remember thos two specific variables. I was looking at the madistance from formation and the next one with a similar name. Max best distance from max? It must mean something for someone.
But I suspect all those z and x distance from different files, including the pressure based on tactic one, are related.
X and z I think refers to the vertical and horizontal distance but I can't remember now which one do what. Sorry
 
Well, reading latest update about modding in 21...all our hope is for this Gameplay Lab team, because I think most of us will remain playing FIFA20 until Paul o whoever release a tool (January?). Alonside EEP Season Mod 20/21, will allow us to enjoy for a while after octuber.

Looking forward to test @Rafter84 gameplay alpha mod. And check the reduction of skating. I hope he achieves it

Another annoying FIFA "thing"... players lose the ball view too often. I mean... in headers (or in many other situations) the player hit the ball without facing the ball. Do they have eyes on their back?? Will there be any parameter to force player view on ball most of time?
 
6ons1 said:
Well, reading latest update about modding in 21...all our hope is for this Gameplay Lab team, because I think most of us will remain playing FIFA20 until Paul o whoever release a tool (January?). Alonside EEP Season Mod 20/21, will allow us to enjoy for a while after octuber.

Looking forward to test @Rafter84 gameplay alpha mod. And check the reduction of skating. I hope he achieves it

Another annoying FIFA "thing"... players lose the ball view too often. I mean... in headers (or in many other situations) the player hit the ball without facing the ball. Do they have eyes on their back?? Will there be any parameter to force player view on ball most of time?
Click to expand...
I did see that. I lost some motivation to work on 20 with 21 so close, so I'm really hoping we'll have access to gameplay files not too far down the track... but doesn't look all that promising at this point - fingers crossed. This time around I've more been experimenting with some larger changes with hopes of figuring out some of ways to help movement/acceleration/positioning which could help going into 21. I have made some decent positive changes since 2.0, but there's also some negatives which have been introduced so still need to iron them out, and with lack of motivation at this point it's not going too quickly. The 1v1 issue is very frustrating (Matt mentioned it's still there but seems better in 21).

Edit: Oh and in terms of the players not viewing the ball, there are files dedicated to how often players look at the ball (LookAtBehavior) so I think this could possibly help, but it could also be an animation problem..
 
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