Real football vs PES simulation ***Where has Konami gone wrong?***

[Musy]

Firstly, just like to say love the forum, Jimmy G-Force and rob are my favourite posters on here

A lot of PES frustrations are coz of how it doesn't play like real football. So I'm starting this thread so we can post VIDEOS to compare PES vs real life football to show Konami things that happen in football that we can't do in PES for whatever reason, giving them something visual to work on, rather than the blabbing going on in the PES 2012 wish list.

RULES:
If you're SUGGESTING a shortcoming or football situation that PES cannot simulate:

-number it after mine,
-post football highlight video link (use http://youtubetime.com/ to direct to specific time point)
-Describe PES's shortcomings against the real football footage
-Possible SOLUTIONS

It would be great to see if some of the PES experts on here could refute these 'PES Football Simulation shortcomings' by demonstrating that the move can actually be performed with a PES video replay similar to the real life situation.

SUGGESTION 1: Ok, let me start off (forgive me for blurring the division between PES and real life, feel free to do the same)

YouTube - Gareth Bale Vs Inter Milan

Jon Murphy, LOOK at 3:18 that assist by Gareth Bale. He did a L2 manual pass into space and chased to beat his man on the wing. In PES 2011, this wouldn't work because (semi-assisted) it would have changed player to Crouch even though Bale is still closest to the ball and put Crouch on rail tracks towards the loose ball.

SOLUTION 1: L2 manual pass into space should not change player cursor unless teammate is closer to the ball. Fullback Ai will also need to be improved to be aware of the loose ball threat and chase back like you can see in the video.

This should lead to the typical battles between winger and fullback for pace seen in some football matches.

 

[DuduBR9]

I agree. When I make a manual pass into space, the cursor changes to the player that is ahead of the ball, wich forces him to go back, but what i usually mean to do with manual pass is passing to the one that is behind the ball. It happens quite often and i hate this.

Fifa had this problem too and i don't know if ea fixed it.

 

[Musy]

I played FIFA11 at a mates house once and accidentally tapped the pass button lightly. There was no one open to pass to so winger just knocked ball ahead, past the defender. Everyone, including me thought it was just a flop of a pass, but managed to skip past to put in a spectacular cross that led to a headed goal. Caught everyone by surprise lol

 

[Rob92]

Thanks for complimenting my posts, I appreciate that .

Great idea for a thread, and a well written and well explained post that I agree with - that type of thing should be possible in the game and it isn't at the minute.

There's a fine line though between giving quick wingers the ability to use their pace, and making them superhuman machines who can charge down the wing all game with ease (like PES6/FIFA 09). So in addition to making that type of move possible, I'd balance it out by punishing the player's stamina a lot more than at present, and make the fatigued players almost ineffective.

As long as it's a skill that requires good judgment/timing and can't be abused, I'm all for making the quick players quick .

An issue I have with PES;

YouTube - Beckham Fantastic Goal

This type of goal isn't really possible in PES - using the R2 controlled shot to side-foot/curl the ball wouldn't put the required pace, curl and dip on the ball.

SOLUTION - For more powered up controlled shots, give them more of a backswing and get the player to really wrap their foot around the ball.
Obviously the above clip is a spectacular goal by a world-class player, I don't want that to be happening all the time, but that type of shot should be available to attempt.

 

[Enlil]

Maybe in pes 2017.

The fact is that if you could do that you were able to abuse it. It's not like game developers don't want it, it's more because of the fact that you have to create situation where the AI knows how to deal with it.

KONAMI should give players more freedom. for example if i wanted to do this then i should be allowed to do it, but based on the stats of my players the outcome would be negative or positive. But the fact that you can't do it is where the problem starts.

 

[Northzzz]

Well in real life you can hold the ball up and shield it. I think i should begin by saying that this isn't something Konami has really ever bothered with.

I honestly don't see too much difference between PES and Fifa in terms of how you always have to pass to keep possession. Fifa employs the stupid brute strength force of the tackler so you have to pass the ball if you don't want to end up on your 'arris and whilst PES doesn't exactly have the same issue the the result is often the same, having to pass constantly to keep possession. Simply put - to attack you have to put together a successful collection of passes and then a through ball/cross. It is honestly like they wanted every team to play like Barcelona and cut teams open but that isn't how all teams play football at all. There simply is no beating a man in PES 2011, through speed, like the video of Bale in the first post, or strength, like Stoke for an extreme example but even smaller things like holding a freaking man off whilst in possession of the ball doesn't happen.

I play WE9LE usually and quite frankly holding the ball up wasn't in that game either even though people hold it up like the holy grail of football games (hence me saying they'd never really bothered with it). What it did have though as an alternative was a great method to attack which was fooling the defender with quick turns, stopping completely and hoping he'd go in for the tackle or if you had speedy players then you could beat a man but still had to work to put a cross in just like in real life. PES has had an issue with speedy players and i think that's why they nullified them in this version. What makes WE9LE tick still though is that players can be fast but if their other attributes suck, i.e technique then it wasn't exactly a cheap tactic. I have LETO in my ML team and whilst he's one of my fastest players his dribbling control and first touch stinks so i get nowhere with him usually.

Plus on a side note which is related. Certain attributes have become less meaningless over PES' history. The individuality is still there but it's not as evident as it once was. Castillo, Huylens and the rest of the default ML team used to be rubbish but now they feel so useless. It's quite polar, either a player in PES 2011 is good at something or he is terrible. There's no middle ground and that's why i have concluded that specific stats have become more meaningless. Thinking about PES 2011 i can hardly think how players stand out at all. Seriously does all players, as long as they're not the aforementioned polar rubbishness, passing the same, crossing the same etc not aggrieve anybody else?

Also for crossing i'd really wish they make you slow down or position yourself to make a cross, it's too simple at the moment. You can be sprinting and cross it in as well as you could if you were walking. Kind of like at 2:20 in the video where Bale is sprinting but he has to cut inside a bit in order to deliver a good cross.

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

Nice thread Musy. I agree with Rob too. The finesse shot in FIFA looks a lot better and has better ball physics. In PES the player should be able to hit that kind of shot if he has the right shot technique and the right body positioning etc - if the game promotes freedom, you should be able to try anything - and then the success is determined by the stats and positioning - unlike FIFA, which allows you to attempt AND pull off lots of moves with weaker players.

Have a look at my latest video on the video thread. I scored an MLO goal that had some nice bend to it with a Macco I think. Hardly a Beckham type player lol. But 95% of the placed shots look like there is no backswing on the leg and have a strange (or weak trajectory).

I know Jimmy says you don't need full power to get the ball off the ground for a placed shot, but if the ball is stuck under your feet and you try it, it just feels way off. If someone can prove otherwise, show me a video

 

[ccshopland]

Well in real life you can hold the ball up and shield it. I think i should begin by saying that this isn't something Konami has really ever bothered with.

I honestly don't see too much difference between PES and Fifa in terms of how you always have to pass to keep possession. Fifa employs the stupid brute strength force of the tackler so you have to pass the ball if you don't want to end up on your 'arris and whilst PES doesn't exactly have the same issue the the result is often the same, having to pass constantly to keep possession. Simply put - to attack you have to put together a successful collection of passes and then a through ball/cross. It is honestly like they wanted every team to play like Barcelona and cut teams open but that isn't how all teams play football at all. There simply is no beating a man in PES 2011, through speed, like the video of Bale in the first post, or strength, like Stoke for an extreme example but even smaller things like holding a freaking man off whilst in possession of the ball doesn't happen.

I play WE9LE usually and quite frankly holding the ball up wasn't in that game either even though people hold it up like the holy grail of football games (hence me saying they'd never really bothered with it). What it did have though as an alternative was a great method to attack which was fooling the defender with quick turns, stopping completely and hoping he'd go in for the tackle or if you had speedy players then you could beat a man but still had to work to put a cross in just like in real life. PES has had an issue with speedy players and i think that's why they nullified them in this version. What makes WE9LE tick still though is that players can be fast but if their other attributes suck, i.e technique then it wasn't exactly a cheap tactic. I have LETO in my ML team and whilst he's one of my fastest players his dribbling control and first touch stinks so i get nowhere with him usually.

Plus on a side note which is related. Certain attributes have become less meaningless over PES' history. The individuality is still there but it's not as evident as it once was. Castillo, Huylens and the rest of the default ML team used to be rubbish but now they feel so useless. It's quite polar, either a player in PES 2011 is good at something or he is terrible. There's no middle ground and that's why i have concluded that specific stats have become more meaningless. Thinking about PES 2011 i can hardly think how players stand out at all. Seriously does all players, as long as they're not the aforementioned polar rubbishness, passing the same, crossing the same etc not aggrieve anybody else?

Also for crossing i'd really wish they make you slow down or position yourself to make a cross, it's too simple at the moment. You can be sprinting and cross it in as well as you could if you were walking. Kind of like at 2:20 in the video where Bale is sprinting but he has to cut inside a bit in order to deliver a good cross.

The points I want to highlight is your "football style" argument!

It's right on the money.

I have mentioned in other posts this very topic - are we, the PES community, really ready for what we want - total, realistic, football?

If we are then we have to change our mindset as a gamer - your point about the PES/FIFA/one way of playing is spot on. We all play PES, some of us have played both, but you are bang on about the style of play you have to play to win the majority of games. Regardless of what team you go, everyone tries to play like Barce, when this is very unrealistic.

My point was look at Utd - they win games through some defensive possession phases to open midfield space, counter attacks and wide crosses. They don't dominate possession and pass the ball fifty times a move - why? Because it's too fkin difficult!

PES should really make you understand your team, for Liverpool success could for example depend on using the strength and aerial prowess of Carroll, you knock the ball to Carroll sometimes on Top Player and a girl could knock him over and take the ball off him, likewise Stoke players, you can just run into them and they surrender possession like fairies.

So first point is PES needs to be individual driven. Berbatov should be technically perfect, his touch close, and his languid style should ooze class, but his running and teamwork should be awful. Cahill, late runs into the box for headed goals anyone? Carroll, target man that can win 80% of headers, Rooney, dropping of the front man, spraying the ball everywhere, impossible to knock off the ball, Ronaldo, you start running backwards and ushering him into corners, take him on in a tackle and he should be around you in a flash - all these things.

The second point derives from this - if you want realism then passing has to be harder in some form. You can play like Barce using anyway (decent team anyway). The only way to play this new version is a sequence of passes, through ball/cross, shot/header. There's little variety in the game.

I'm a huge PES6 nut, maybe a little too arcadey for some, but for me the game is near perfect. Tiny things like you just out-anticipated a defender as your agile striker got that extra half a yard to score, play ball long up top, chest then lay off to begin a long ball move, skinning people against a slow wing back.

I feel I could play with more variety back then. Maurice M-Bely for CS Sedan in the old game I think, built like a brick shit house, don't think I got the ball off him ever - but those were his stats - big, strong, physical, hold up play was magnificent, but couldn't shoot for shit. BUT his individuality for example shone through like a beacon. Walcott in PES6, you're shitting yourself when he starts running at you from deep.

So yeah agree totally, player individuality increased, and you should be royally rewarded for playing different ways that you see fit, IF you have the players to do it - ie Stoke should be a nightmare physically, Barce a possession nightmare to play against, Arsenal brilliant in possession but susceptible to counter etc etc

 

[freak08]

1) AI's approach to game must depend on the situation. Like if AI won the first leg 2-0, let AI play the second leg defensively and must be noticeable.

2) Off the ball movement- The most important is the movement of players from side to side and not only in the attacking side. This side to side movement must happen according to situation and must regain the position. For example, Messi starts from the middle of the park, carries the ball deep into the right side of the pitch and gives a pass and goes inside the 18 yard box right in front of the goal. Now how do you do this is PES? It will never happen, Messi will be fooled by the PLAYER SUPPORT tactics and stay close to the player who is having the ball.

 

[xPJRx]

Nice idea but perhaps 6 months too late.

 

[Musy]

Videos pleeeease

Hey, rob! Honoured to have you grace this thread.
Guys, some nice ideas brought to the table, but try to illustrate a NEW SUGGESTION with a video like rob.

SUGGESTION 2: rob's Beckham goal
Frustrating, coz similar results were achievable in PES 6 it seems
YouTube - PES6 Skills: Xtreme R2 Shooting
LOOK at the curl shots after 0:49
JON MURPHY! Why are R2 shots worse / less varied in PES 2011?

We can see at 0:42 how Beckham has to take the ball out of his feet so he can hit it with backswing and wrap his foot round it. Sort of reminded me of PES6 tapout R1+L1
YouTube - Pro Evolution Soccer 6 PC Tricks & Moves - Tap Out
You can even see a backswing animation in this vid. But this 'tapout' was restricted to direction player was facing, so it was a bit crap, so they took it out coz they're KONAMI

SOLUTION: On top of what rob said, FLICK of RIGHT STICK starts an animation to tap ball out of feet to hit a natural looking curled shot with SHOOT+R2 combination. Could even be used just to sidesetp a defender with outside of foot

 

[Musy]

SUGGESTION 3: Shield the ball / Hold up play
5:45 Tevez's nice hold up play
YouTube - Anderson vs Bolton

A bit of an extreme example of the beast strength some players like Tevez have, Jon Murphy LOOK
YouTube - Shielding WC Tevez.avi

SOLUTION: Player can stand his ground by pushing L3 BUTTON. Konami, you do know there is an L3 button, right? Would be brilliant, and it just makes sense. Effectiveness would depend on both players strength stats ofcourse

Heck, THIS should be the PES 2012 cover!

 

[Jamezinho]

Those videos make me want to dig out my PS2 again.

Great days.

 

[Northzzz]

CCShopland - I agree. I support Man Utd but i detest playing as them in PES because it feels very un-United like. It's the same with Chelsea too for wing play and most Prem teams too in fact except Arsenal because, surprise surprise, PES' pro passing game is what they do. You're correct about your analysis of how united play - a strong defence coupled with counter attacking down the wings, you just cannot do this in PES. Defence feels like a lottery at times but a team like Man Utd thrives on strong defenders and playing the ball calmly at the back when in possession but in PES i just want to get the ball away from my goal as quickly as possible because i'm scared of having the ball in that area of the pitch when there's no ability to feel calm under pressure with any player. That's where stats should come into play a lot more. Ferdinand is a calm ball player and Vidic is a brute ball winner - so why do they feel so similar and annoyingly similarly as prone to error as each other. Vidic's gun-ho style should leave me feeling more scared of a mistake/foul than Ferdinand when defending. I advocate that the way to change this is by adjusting attributes and making them matter - therefore making players feel different.

Again regarding the idea that i don't feel comfortable at the back - it's because i am constantly harried and pressured by the other team in an area of the pitch where in real life you just aren't. They need to sort out the stamina because an opposition team just doesn't pressure like the way they do in PES all game (not with 2 men like the AI does). It is exactly the same with FIFA and it ends up adding to the 'having to pass the ball every second' feeling. If you do pressure like that then you should be punished late on, just as in real life.

 

[Northzzz]

Those videos make me want to dig out my PS2 again.

Great days.

Download them for PC. Depending on which version you like ShollyM (Pes6) and some Russian mobsters (WE9LE) have been doing some great patching, making the game up to date.

 

[gomito#10]

Thanks for complimenting my posts, I appreciate that .

Great idea for a thread, and a well written and well explained post that I agree with - that type of thing should be possible in the game and it isn't at the minute.

There's a fine line though between giving quick wingers the ability to use their pace, and making them superhuman machines who can charge down the wing all game with ease (like PES6/FIFA 09). So in addition to making that type of move possible, I'd balance it out by punishing the player's stamina a lot more than at present, and make the fatigued players almost ineffective.

As long as it's a skill that requires good judgment/timing and can't be abused, I'm all for making the quick players quick .

An issue I have with PES;

YouTube - Beckham Fantastic Goal

This type of goal isn't really possible in PES - using the R2 controlled shot to side-foot/curl the ball wouldn't put the required pace, curl and dip on the ball.

SOLUTION - For more powered up controlled shots, give them more of a backswing and get the player to really wrap their foot around the ball.
Obviously the above clip is a spectacular goal by a world-class player, I don't want that to be happening all the time, but that type of shot should be available to attempt.

sorry mate but i have scored goals like this... hamsik for napoli has done this for me on a few occasions

 

[Gab_]

You can't score the kind of goals where the ball have top spin, bounce a meter before the keeper with a high bounce. It starts out fairly high, top spins down pretty quickly because of lift effect and then high bounce. I'm too lazy to try to find on youtube, but Cronaldo and Nani probably have scored a lot of these shots. In FIFA you can actually pull off these shots these days because of their much more realistic ball physics.

 

[soyo]

Download them for PC. Depending on which version you like ShollyM (Pes6) and some Russian mobsters (WE9LE) have been doing some great patching, making the game up to date.

No PES6, just WE9LE

If anybody wants to "go back to the roots" WE9LE, and only WE9LE is the way to go.

Check it guys, and you won't be dissapointed.

 

[Rob92]

sorry mate but i have scored goals like this... hamsik for napoli has done this for me on a few occasions

Sorry, but I'll believe it when when I see it.

I've played the game since release day, and I've tried that side-footed curling shot a lot, with a variety of different players with the relevant body positioning etc. and I am yet to see a proper curling shot...

Even if it were possible and you have indeed scored similar goals to that one above, it's WAY too rare to be realistic.

 

[Rob92]

Re: Videos pleeeease

Hey, rob! Honoured to have you grace this thread.
Guys, some nice ideas brought to the table, but try to illustrate a NEW SUGGESTION with a video like rob.

SUGGESTION 2: rob's Beckham goal
Frustrating, coz similar results were achievable in PES 6 it seems
YouTube - PES6 Skills: Xtreme R2 Shooting
LOOK at the curl shots after 0:49
JON MURPHY! Why are R2 shots worse / less varied in PES 2011?

We can see at 0:42 how Beckham has to take the ball out of his feet so he can hit it with backswing and wrap his foot round it. Sort of reminded me of PES6 tapout R1+L1
YouTube - Pro Evolution Soccer 6 PC Tricks & Moves - Tap Out
You can even see a backswing animation in this vid. But this 'tapout' was restricted to direction player was facing, so it was a bit crap, so they took it out coz they're KONAMI

SOLUTION: On top of what rob said, FLICK of RIGHT STICK starts an animation to tap ball out of feet to hit a natural looking curled shot with SHOOT+R2 combination. Could even be used just to sidesetp a defender with outside of foot

You can still do that "tap-out" move, it just takes ages to do and by the time it's performed the chance is gone.

You have to hold LT and tap the right analog stick diagonally forwards twice quickly, 0:36 on this video;

YouTube - PES 2011 Feints Tutorial

I'm not sure I like PES6's R2 curling shots, they can be performed even when the player's momentum and body position shouldn't allow it - I like how they work in PES 2011, it's just the backswing of the animations and amount of pace/swerve/dip isn't enough.

I've managed to score a few curling shots, this one on the demo perhaps the best;
YouTube - PES 2011 - David Villa curling strike

 

[Gab_]

No PES6, just WE9LE

If anybody wants to "go back to the roots" WE9LE, and only WE9LE is the way to go.

Check it guys, and you won't be dissapointed.

Installed it again a couple of days ago, it's still such a fun game to play. There are hardly anything that is annoying. It's really weird that they have gone from such good defending implementation to something so rubbish that we have now. Every foul in that game is correct, if you take the legs first he calls it, great collision detection to make the call.

I love to cut in front of an opponent so that he has to let me pass or touch my legs so I fall over and get a freekick, just like you do in real life when getting chased a little from the side and behind. In some areas it's like the technology/algorithms has actually gone backwards...

Another thing I would like to see implemented in PES that I have been asking for in FIFA is that every ball touch when sprinting should have error applied in both direction and length. It's too samey now, in real life you might get a touch that is to weak so that you have to slow down a little to make the next touch good and so on. You would then have a clear difference between a fast top player and a fast lower league player, like we have in real life. Because the shorter touches you make, the harder it is to keep a steady high speed.

 

[Jamezinho]

Installed it again a couple of days ago, it's still such a fun game to play. There are hardly anything that is annoying. It's really weird that they have gone from such good defending implementation to something so rubbish that we have now. Every foul in that game is correct, if you take the legs first he calls it, great collision detection to make the call.

I love to cut in front of an opponent so that he has to let me pass or touch my legs so I fall over and get a freekick, just like you do in real life when getting chased a little from the side and behind. In some areas it's like the technology/algorithms has actually gone backwards...

The refereeing in the PES2011 demo was much better than it is in the retail game. It was more akin to PES5, where more often than not a foul was called for any contact (apart from well-executed tackles). It's the best deterrent to sprint-pressure whoring.

Remember how defending in PES5 used to be a real art-form? Where defending space, patience and waiting for the right moment to make a challenge was the best course of action? The PES2011 demo was more like PES5, but Konami decided to make the referees more lenient before release.

It's amazing how making referees stricter changes the whole way the game is played.

Let's face it, modern football is now essentially a non-contact sport and the strictness of referees in PES5 was much closer to real-life than any football game since. FIFA's interpretation of football, with all the over-the-top physicality and players continually barging each other off the ball is well wide of the mark. Football is not played like that outside England, and even in the Premier League it's not so much the case any more.

 

[soyo]

WE9LE

Installed it again a couple of days ago, it's still such a fun game to play.

There are hardly anything that is annoying.

It's really weird that they have gone from such good defending implementation to something so rubbish that we have now.

Every foul in that game is correct, if you take the legs first he calls it, great collision detection to make the call.

I love to cut in front of an opponent so that he has to let me pass or touch my legs so I fall over and get a freekick, just like you do in real life when getting chased a little from the side and behind.

Don't forget to join our bastion just for WE9LE gamers at WEplayWE.PL, where you can find many stuff relating to we9le, as well as info how to play online.

 

[Northzzz]

The refereeing in the PES2011 demo was much better than it is in the retail game. It was more akin to PES5, where more often than not a foul was called for any contact (apart from well-executed tackles). It's the best deterrent to sprint-pressure whoring.

Absolutely

 

[Gab_]

The refereeing in the PES2011 demo was much better than it is in the retail game. It was more akin to PES5, where more often than not a foul was called for any contact (apart from well-executed tackles).

I agree, it was the first thing I was complaining about with the full release. That said, the collision detection coupled with the completely broken advantage rule also made it frustrating. I still preferred the demo strictness, but as a whole it was way worse than how it was in PES 5 in my opinion.

 

[kobayashi]

Good thread, although i don't think PES 2011 biggest issue is it's not realsitic enough, it too realistic in some places.. But there are a lot f crazyness which happens and muzy has some good points that there are a few things which happened in real life which should happen more in PES

I said before i don't think either fouling system was good, the demo one had too many fouls! Which was bad for player vs player games. Mean than every time i tried to get past one of my mates i was playing against, he just ran into me and committed a foul, i remember it being so hard to score because i couldn't get any fluidness going.

The current on isn't good either, because now you can again run into players and take the ball easily at times.

The biggest issue is simply the animations and collision system which is very, very basic atm, not to mention the poor advantage system and poor card system!

Plus on a side note which is related. Certain attributes have become less meaningless over PES' history. The individuality is still there but it's not as evident as it once was. Castillo, Huylens and the rest of the default ML team used to be rubbish but now they feel so useless. It's quite polar, either a player in PES 2011 is good at something or he is terrible. There's no middle ground and that's why i have concluded that specific stats have become more meaningless. Thinking about PES 2011 i can hardly think how players stand out at all. Seriously does all players, as long as they're not the aforementioned polar rubbishness, passing the same, crossing the same etc not aggrieve anybody else.

Disagree 100% I think you just didn't get into the game man, For me, from the beginning and with my master league with Feyernoord and in the training pitch just testing out. God Even player runs differently on this game. Far more than WE9 or PES 5 which is still a great game in it's own right though. With PES5 WE9 etc.. you could run and get past players with, well almost anyone, on PES 2011, there's players like Xavi, etc.. i do not ever bother pressing the R1 Sprint button with unless they are through on goal 1 on 1.

I mean in MLO i had players like Burns who maybe only rated 61 but his goo pace and dribbling stats despite his bad technique sure helped. This Romaninan dude who's slow but his crossing and geenral passing was fabulous! There's a lot of differences from player like Huylens and Castolo for me, i mean Castolo I like his pace helps you out, there that Spanish dude i think, the striker how's a reliable old fashioned striker, who's rather slow but holds up well and gets the job done.

I think your possibly doing what LTFC was doing and hadn't embrace the sensitivity of the left stick, if you don't PES 2011 just appears a flat game in many respects. It was clear from when we had people over who are new to the game. there's too much to learn and if you just play it of the hat it dosen't look good. Even when you do learn, leave the game for a week or two and you would be surprised what you forget, happened to me a few times, especially in terms of dribbling!

 

[Northzzz]

Disagree 100% I think you just didn't get into the game man, For me, from the beginning and with my master league with Feyernoord and in the training pitch just testing out. God Even player runs differently on this game. Far more than WE9 or PES 5 which is still a great game in it's own right though. With PES5 WE9 etc.. you could run and get past players with, well almost anyone, on PES 2011, there's players like Xavi, etc.. i do not ever bother pressing the R1 Sprint button with unless they are through on goal 1 on 1.

I mean in MLO i had players like Burns who maybe only rated 61 but his goo pace and dribbling stats despite his bad technique sure helped. This Romaninan dude who's slow but his crossing and geenral passing was fabulous! There's a lot of differences from player like Huylens and Castolo for me, i mean Castolo I like his pace helps you out, there that Spanish dude i think, the striker how's a reliable old fashioned striker, who's rather slow but holds up well and gets the job done.

I think your possibly doing what LTFC was doing and hadn't embrace the sensitivity of the left stick, if you don't PES 2011 just appears a flat game in many respects. It was clear from when we had people over who are new to the game. there's too much to learn and if you just play it of the hat it dosen't look good. Even when you do learn, leave the game for a week or two and you would be surprised what you forget, happened to me a few times, especially in terms of dribbling!

I see your point but from my perspective nobody stood out as being obviously better or worse at crossing/passing during the entire time i played with it. At least i didn't feel as if they did but i can accept it may be entirely subjective. The only reason i compared it to WE9LE in the first place is because i've been playing ML on that recently and players stick in my mind for what they're good at and what they're bad at where as if i think about my time with PES 2011 i personally can't think of many ways that i remember players sticking out. All i can go by for my argument is memory because i no longer own the game. The only thing i recall about players sticking out drastically in PES 2011 is that my default ML team felt like they lacked co-ordination abilities as if they'd never played football before. I also accept that maybe i didn't look beyond that at the differences between Huylens and Castolo. I was too busy struggling in truth.

I'm not exactly too sure what utilizing the left stick does. That may have been a huge downfall on my part.

You also make a good point about the AI in regards to your own team. I was going to mention it in my post but it didn't seem entirely necessary then but it is massively better than the old games. I can see individualism there. My point about stats being less meaningless was completely based on player's technical attributes.

 

[kobayashi]

I see your point but from my perspective nobody stood out as being obviously better or worse at crossing/passing during the entire time i played with it. At least i didn't feel as if they did but i can accept it may be entirely subjective. The only reason i compared it to WE9LE in the first place is because i've been playing ML on that recently and players stick in my mind for what they're good at and what they're bad at where as if i think about my time with PES 2011 i personally can't think of many ways that i remember players sticking out. All i can go by for my argument is memory because i no longer own the game. The only thing i recall about players sticking out drastically in PES 2011 is that my default ML team felt like they lacked co-ordination abilities as if they'd never played football before. I also accept that maybe i didn't look beyond that at the differences between Huylens and Castolo. I was too busy struggling in truth.

I'm not exactly too sure what utilizing the left stick does. That may have been a huge downfall on my part.

You also make a good point about the AI in regards to your own team. I was going to mention it in my post but it didn't seem entirely necessary then but it is massively better than the old games. I can see individualism there. My point about stats being less meaningless was completely based on player's technical attributes.

Yes, that's it there, the left stick. if you look at LTFC posts, he was just pretty much like you, getting results here and there but ultimately getting frustrated and struggled with many aspects of the game, he hadn't embraced enough of the games good points and was getting too much of a percentage of the games shortcoming.

If you look at how positive his posts are and how he's almost changed his whole opinion of the game since AFTER he discovered how sensitive the left stick is. It's a huge part of the game.

The animations actually look really good with the sensitive dribbling, in general you will see a huge amount of individuality in how each player dribbles, depending on their technique, pace, dribble accuracy and quite crucial foot frequency! Tricks are also depended on their success rate when performing then and after performing then depending on what foot they control the ball with afterwords or what foot they use to perform it with.

i noticed Villa would lose the ball if doing a roulette on his weaker foot but would perform it it well on his stronger foot Little stuff like that! It's great!

I can understand why your playing PES 5 or WE9 which is the greatest football game ever released, but for me PES 2011 has finally beaten it pretty comfortably in terms of simulation despite many flaws, i think i could go back to PES5 on the PC though if i can get the right patch as it's still a top game and it's a 'complete game' where as PES 2011 is very basic in a a few areas.

You could probably get PES 2011 on the cheap now, I'd recommend it to give the dribbling a try again, or just get it on the PC with patches etc..

 

[CalcioCalabrese]

I mean in MLO i had players like Burns who maybe only rated 61 but his goo pace and dribbling stats despite his bad technique sure helped.

Which Burns? The Australian guy?

 

[soyo]

i think i could go back to PES5 on the PC though if i can get the right patch as it's still a top game and it's a 'complete game'

How about WE9LE with the right patch??