Real football vs PES simulation ***Where has Konami gone wrong?***

True.

Regardless of every minor issue, the fundementals this game now incorporates is staggering compared to anything prior in the series. As long as you know what your looking for then it's impossible to debate against. There is no problem preferring the likes of PES 6, but please, dont make yourself look silly by stating the likes of PES 6 are more realistic. It's beyond laughable.

The biggest crying shame I find is that Konami's vision and technical reproduction of football is criminally neither understood or appreciated by so many so called 'football fans'.

Edit - To be fair Rob, and I understand how you may disagree, but 75% of what PES 2011 is, has been derived from PES 2010.
 
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iv never had the comfort of satisfaction with the settings on nvidia with pes 2011, may i ask rob what settings you use to play pes 2011
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
There is no problem preferring the likes of PES 6, but please, dont make yourself look silly by stating the likes of PES 6 are more realistic. It's beyond laughable.
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I agree. It's very ilogical to call pes6 realistic with all the arcade things that it has in its gameplay. I don't care how you try to "adjust" your style of play to make it more realistic, or what patch you use. The core of the game will still affect more than 50% its gameplay.

However... if we talk about "the likes of PES6" in terms of the "older games" then WE9LE is not only more realistic(still) than newer games. It's the most realistic football game, and it's been so since 2006.

Until that changes, I will keep playing WE9LE, cause there is no game better in terms of pure realism, and I advise everybody to do the same.

cheers
 
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pretty much that sums it up, i hope to see striking similarities in pes 2012 with we9le

soyo is there any latest option file for we9le
 
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Primepeace said:
soyo is there any latest option file for we9le
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We're already on it...

Just started preparation for new splendid patch for WE9LE, and it should be released hopefully in couple months.

As for now, you can find fairly recent OF in the patch we're playing online now, at weplaywe.pl

cheers
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
Edit - To be fair Rob, and I understand how you may disagree, but 75% of what PES 2011 is, has been derived from PES 2010.
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Agree to that, except that I prefer some of the shooting and crossing animations on 2010. I keep switching between these 2.

Not sure if anyone's going to agree with me here, but these phases Konami are going through remind me so much of the PS2 phases. PES3 was more the obvious evolution just like 2010 was. Then PES4 added a bit more fluidity since PES3 was a big on the rigid side. For me, this is how I compare 2011 with 2010. Then came PES5, which as we know is considered the best of its time. So hopefully 2012 will be quite the revelation I'm hoping for.
 
Lami said:
Agree to that, except that I prefer some of the shooting and crossing animations on 2010. I keep switching between these 2.

Not sure if anyone's going to agree with me here, but these phases Konami are going through remind me so much of the PS2 phases. PES3 was more the obvious evolution just like 2010 was. Then PES4 added a bit more fluidity since PES3 was a big on the rigid side. For me, this is how I compare 2011 with 2010. Then came PES5, which as we know is considered the best of its time. So hopefully 2012 will be quite the revelation I'm hoping for.
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If anyone has time watch pes 6 gameplay on youtube. you will see allot of elements that are in pes 2011. And i wonder; How much did KONAMI add for 2011? It seems allot compared to pes 2010. but compared to pes 6 i only see animations that are more in 2011. Also allot of animation that were already in pes 6. for example the complain animation.
makes you wonder what KONAMI is doing if you want to know the answer to where has Konami gone wrong
 
Lami said:
Agree to that, except that I prefer some of the shooting and crossing animations on 2010. I keep switching between these 2.

Not sure if anyone's going to agree with me here, but these phases Konami are going through remind me so much of the PS2 phases. PES3 was more the obvious evolution just like 2010 was. Then PES4 added a bit more fluidity since PES3 was a big on the rigid side. For me, this is how I compare 2011 with 2010. Then came PES5, which as we know is considered the best of its time. So hopefully 2012 will be quite the revelation I'm hoping for.
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I don't consider PES 3 rigid :o But other than, according to your order of ideas, PES 2012 may be this gen's PES 5, is that it? That would be incredible :WORSHIP:
 
Compared to PES4 and 5 it is. You can try comparing yourself too. PES 2010 compared to 2011 is as well.
 
Primepeace said:
In pes 2012 game will be more AI based rather than more eye candy, pes 2010, and pes 2011 have been a major embarassment in this aspect, as gameplay has been forgotten due to graphic overhaul, very unneceassary, in japan and konami they always have this mentality, they just love the graphics of games out there and try to accomplish it in a football game, how unfortunate that this never worked with pes 2010, pes 2011, pes 2012 will just be all about gameplay. InsaAllah, GodWilling.
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I never thought I'd hear someone say Konami prioritise graphics over gameplay. The Japanese shouldn't be generalised as a nation of graphics whores. I really don't think that's true at all.

The only year where Konami placed an emphasis on graphics was PES2010, which was a huge (and much needed) graphical upgrade, but even so the game could still look better, especially wide-cam.

PES2011 was a big gameplay upgrade, and I think PES2012 while put an even bigger emphasis on the gameplay, righting the wrongs of the last couple of years.
 
Nintendo is a perfect example of that. They care more about gameplay than graphics. So that statement is untrue. Japanese have the tendency to do everything perfect.
 
jamezinho, all i wanted to say that pes 2012 does not need an overhaul in graphics, that this year the game should be at peak in the gameplay aspect, look most of us are still talking about we9le, and i admit it that 2011 really did not have a lasting appeal on me, why because the gameplay realism needs to be much more clear than the graphics side of the game.
 
what's only worth mentioning in terms of pes this season was pes 2011 demo.

that was the first konami work i really enjoyed after long time. it had excellent AI, gameplay, refs. they only needed few touches on goalkeepers and that's all.

for me the pes 2011 demo was turly amazing, awesome game of football on pc.

but what happened then? so called pes fans (i prefer calling them pes noobs) started acting like a cry babies because game was to hard for them. they started geting over seabass to change almost everything that was good in this game after so many years and what we got as a result? poor pes 2011 full game in terms of gameplay/AI/refs.

i hope this stops next autumn.
 
MadbaLL said:
what's only worth mentioning in terms of pes this season was pes 2011 demo.

that was the first konami work i really enjoyed after long time. it had excellent AI, gameplay, refs. they only needed few touches on goalkeepers and that's all.

for me the pes 2011 demo was turly amazing, awesome game of football on pc.

but what happened then? so called pes fans (i prefer calling them pes noobs) started acting like a cry babies because game was to hard for them. they started geting over seabass to change almost everything that was good in this game after so many years and what we got as a result? poor pes 2011 full game in terms of gameplay/AI/refs.

i hope this stops next autumn.
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Huge exaggeration. If anything, they made tackling easier and the ref less strict. Big mistake, but not enough to make such distinctions between demo and full game.
 
not really, whats funny is you can actually compare the experience you have with the demo and the full game, the demo was actually quite fun, what it did was that people actually had higer demands and expectations from the full game, whereas the code in the demo was actually fun and simple, this is what im hoping from 2012 i can't ask for much.
 
I'm going to try downloading the demo again. I remember the MLO beta being fun.
 
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The only thing Konami should cut off from the demo is those stupid replays in every foul. Nothing more and nothing less.

I loved the refs and the tacling system. It was close to perfection. The demo experience gives me a nice notion of timing tackles, cover spaces and defend realistically, and pressure when it's really needed. With the full game I completly lost this notion of timing tackles.

Pes 2011 should be like the demo with improved advantage law and quick free quicks. It would be awesome.

But i'm fine with the game, still is a huge improvement from pes 2010 and it's definetely the best football game we have yet on this current gen.

sorry for my english.
 
agree about the demo but can't say much about the full game of pes 2011, after all this im more eager to find out what exactly pes 2012 will be like
 
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I can't understand the argument about the demo of PES 2011...

Just this weekend I played again the demo on xbox360 just to see what the fuss is about.

The gameplay was slower than in the latest version of PES 2011. I play with -1 in the full, in the demo I had to put it on +1 to get the same speed.

The tackling needed a bit more foresight in the demo, but that is the only aspect that was better:

The CPU-AI was rediculously lame and ineffective, the passing was wrongly calibrated, the playerswitching drove me crazy.

The tackling and the stricter referee were better but everything else was considerably worse than in the full version.

And regarding those people that claim that PES 5/6 were better: Yes, the animation was smoother, the goalkeepers a bit more reactive, the atmosphere was livelier and the referees were better espescially regarding advantage, but the gameplay is way more realistic in PES 2011 than it was in those PS2-PES-classics.

I can't understand why football-fans can't see that.

I hope Konami will continue in the realistic path to replicate football and I hope that with PES 2012 the missing polish will be applied to make animations smoother, physics more convincing and to get rid of many bugs and to make the AI more aware and reactive... so that everyone can see what a wonderful football-simulation PES 2011 really is.
 
For the record, I think, for most, it was only the tackling and refs that we wanted from the demo. The rest as you state, was inferior to the final product.

As for the animations, I dont see them getting smoother, if anything, I hope we get more sharp angles to work from, and if that is the case, making them smoother will be even more difficult. Fifa is super-smooth because those angles arent there or relevant. Football isnt smooth, I dont get where that mis-conception comes from to be honest.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
For the record, I think, for most, it was only the tackling and refs that we wanted from the demo. The rest as you state, was inferior to the final product.

As for the animations, I dont see them getting smoother, if anything, I hope we get more sharp angles to work from, and if that is the case, making them smoother will be even more difficult. Fifa is super-smooth because those angles arent there or relevant. Football isnt smooth, I dont get where that mis-conception comes from to be honest.
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This. Wrapped up.
 
Referees were better in the demo (i.e. stricter) compared to the final game

and, probably a very controversial one this.....

I feel the shooting was better in the MLO beta compared to the final game.

I scored some really organic feeling goals in the beta that I've not seen since. One that sticks in the mind (against Tobi I think) was a perfect topspin volley struck from the edge of the area that beat the keeper and just dipped under the bar. Never seen anything like it in PES2011.

The shooting in the retail version didn't feel quite as 'free' as the MLO beta.
 
_anderson said:
Huge exaggeration. If anything, they made tackling easier and the ref less strict. Big mistake, but not enough to make such distinctions between demo and full game.
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for me it is.

and i'm talking about PC version. for me, demo was a game with much, much better code in terms of AI and realistic gameplay elements.

it was everything what full version was supposed to be. it needed just few touches on goalkeepers.
 
MadbaLL said:
for me it is.

and i'm talking about PC version. for me, demo was a game with much, much better code in terms of AI and realistic gameplay elements.

it was everything what full version was supposed to be. it needed just few touches on goalkeepers.
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Maybe your playing 10 minute matches still?, try 20? or 15 which is the standard for me.

10 minutes worked int he demo because there was SO many fouls!
 
kobayashi said:
Maybe your playing 10 minute matches still?, try 20? or 15 which is the standard for me.

10 minutes worked int he demo because there was SO many fouls!
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I'd rather have many legitimate fouls than inconsistent mechanics.

By the way Jimmy, this may be the first time we agree on something. I think that the implementation of the animation in PES does a lot to ground the players and help them feel more real.

The problem is that some of the animations look downright terrible (the side dribble or tackle from behind animations for example). If they could add more animations but keep the current implementation I would be a happy man.

I also think they need to use context to determine which animation is used; It would help make the gameplay feel relevant to the environment.
 
Not sure whether people are talking about the same thing when they mention "smooth" animations. FIFA is clunky, and players turn like a semi-trailer. Hardly smooth at all. PES has much nicer dribbling angles.
 
Jamezinho said:
Referees were better in the demo (i.e. stricter) compared to the final game

and, probably a very controversial one this.....

I feel the shooting was better in the MLO beta compared to the final game.

I scored some really organic feeling goals in the beta that I've not seen since. One that sticks in the mind (against Tobi I think) was a perfect topspin volley struck from the edge of the area that beat the keeper and just dipped under the bar. Never seen anything like it in PES2011.

The shooting in the retail version didn't feel quite as 'free' as the MLO beta.
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I have exactly the same feeling mate. I remember shooting in the beta felt natural. I remember this one goal i scored from about 30m+ which had nicely into the goal. I never scored anything like that in the full game..
 
Been some months without playing PES2011, got back to it yesterday. After some friendlies, I was promptly reminded of why I gave up playing it the first time: The CPU never attacks. Occasionaly they score after a big fluke from my defenders either due to poor player switching or poor clearances (still can't believe that it is impossible to clear a through ball with a single touch.)

I've tried playing a WC with Algeria at top player, but came to the same conclusion that when I lose I'm only losing to myself.

I've tried the countless gameplay patches (PC version), in which most people reckon the AI is smarter, but I've not seen evidence of that, except defensively. The CPU still fails to build a single attack play.

While I'd be the first one to point out that the gameplay is way deeper and closer to the reality in PES 2011, this game brings me not even a fraction of the enjoyment and challenge that WE9LE does.
 
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