The Retro-PES Corner

Flipper the Priest said:
Any fans of PES Chronicles here? Haven't read for a while and I see it's down - can anyone shed any light?
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Here am i! i asked @xPJRx by PM, cause he was a regular in the comment section there, told me that Greg decided it to, due to time balance issues, between the blog and real life.

Do you have a link to Greg's youtube channel. i cannot find it for some reason, although i was a subscriber. I loved that blog. :(
 
It's a shame to see it go, after at least about more than a decade of posting! Impressive. Ironically, the site ends as a...FIFA blog, as not-Greg had made an almost complete transition to PES' rival - except for a few retro-PES adventures he says were still a regular "side dish" on his gaming "plate".
 
So, despite the possibility of another game breaking event around the corner, I decided to keep going on my Pes 13 ML all the same. Too much fun.. definitely worth the risk at this point!

I had to rebuild the team the best I could; after the blank season, all the reserves with the last contract year (almost all of them except one, as for who's playing so little I usually go year for year) decided to leave me. Marilungo asked for the transfer after I refused an offer for him, so I had to sold him as well anyway despite being my best striker; in his place, I bought two forwards: Ji Dong-Won (complete, korean SS/CF) and Cani (classical tall striker).

So I had to face the first half of the season with a very short roster (just 19 players). Decided to play with a DMF and a more robust midfield whenever the situation required it.. and I think it paid; despite the league being tough as nails until now, that's how I managed to do at january:
pes2013 2020-10-09 19-41-27-41.jpg

That's also kinda fascinating we are all there in just a few points. Only 10 points from the first to the 15th place :D. Everything could happen from here to the end.. I just hope I'll not end up with another cursed streak like the last time.

On the market, I decided to renew everyone and listen for offers (on transfers list) for who didn't convinced me fully. WIll buy a replace for every guy I can sell from here to end season.
I was tempted to put Cani on the market as well, since he didn't shine in the few occasions I gave him.. but the last game, in which Gerardi was injured and I had to play him, he scored two goals and did a great performance, and I also can't sell a guy that is costantly on this mood:
pes2013 2020-10-09 19-39-11-59.jpg

so.. as any good ending Pes story, he'll probably stay.
I also brought in two guys from the youth team (Piccioni and Budan, both with an overall under 60) just to make number. I'll maybe discard them in the summer but at least in case of red cards/injuries etc. I'll have something resembling a bench for the rest of the league.
 
Madmac79 said:
So, despite the possibility of another game breaking event around the corner, I decided to keep going on my Pes 13 ML all the same. Too much fun.. definitely worth the risk at this point!

I had to rebuild the team the best I could; after the blank season, all the reserves with the last contract year (almost all of them except one, as for who's playing so little I usually go year for year) decided to leave me. Marilungo asked for the transfer after I refused an offer for him, so I had to sold him as well anyway despite being my best striker; in his place, I bought two forwards: Ji Dong-Won (complete, korean SS/CF) and Cani (classical tall striker).

So I had to face the first half of the season with a very short roster (just 19 players). Decided to play with a DMF and a more robust midfield whenever the situation required it.. and I think it paid; despite the league being tough as nails until now, that's how I managed to do at january:
View attachment 62211

That's also kinda fascinating we are all there in just a few points. Only 10 points from the first to the 15th place :D. Everything could happen from here to the end.. I just hope I'll not end up with another cursed streak like the last time.

On the market, I decided to renew everyone and listen for offers (on transfers list) for who didn't convinced me fully. WIll buy a replace for every guy I can sell from here to end season.
I was tempted to put Cani on the market as well, since he didn't shine in the few occasions I gave him.. but the last game, in which Gerardi was injured and I had to play him, he scored two goals and did a great performance, and I also can't sell a guy that is costantly on this mood:
View attachment 62212

so.. as any good ending Pes story, he'll probably stay.
I also brought in two guys from the youth team (Piccioni and Budan, both with an overall under 60) just to make number. I'll maybe discard them in the summer but at least in case of red cards/injuries etc. I'll have something resembling a bench for the rest of the league.
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Great that you kept at it,/restarted.
My view is (after cycling a lot of rosters and teams) and choosing Zaragoza is most rosters are very short.
Think my team before signing a few youth players were 20 ish
 
@Flipper the Priest: I've been reading the blog on the Wayback Machine, here's an example: https://web.archive.org/web/20200327102017/http://peschronicles.co.uk/2008/07/

What an amazing source of retro-PES content it is.

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I've managed to make the one and only ISS Pro Evolution work on the PSP: a portable ISS PE is just too good to be true. Twenty years later and I'm still in love with that game. Started an international league comprised of the best nations in the (1999) world using Portugal on CPU co-op - honestly had no idea this feature existed so far back in the series...-; so far, five matches in and I (...we...?) have 3 defeats and 2 draws. I haven't even faced the best teams of the game, Germany (with the Libero version of an old Lothar Matthaus still there!) and Spain (young Raul, Hierro, Guardiola...) were theoretically the hardest nations on that list, but mostly we faced smaller fish, which means the harder matches are yet to be played. Only Yugoslavia is doing worse than Portugal, we're 15th in the league.

On the plus side, we've scored 5 goals so far, all of them by the one and only Ponto Vera. It doesn't matter if it's 1999 or 2020, he's always a star in my ISS PE experiences over the years decades, despite not being a superstar neither ingame (looking at his stats) nor in real life as his alter-ego, João Pinto. It's really odd.
Fego and Rui Casta have been playing so poorly that the soon-to-be-fired Portugal manager has had enough: neither played on the last league match vs. Spain, though it really didn't have an effect on the team as we lost (4-1) anyway.

I can't really say anything about this marvelous game I haven't said before. If the FUT kids played this, they'd have an aneurysm. Looking past graphics, animations and other improvements naturally provided by better technology over time, and just focusing on the "pulp" of this footballing orange, this would be the football game I'd choose to introduce the game of Football to aliens. When they play this, they'll get the message and need no further introduction to the sport.
 
@rockstrongo
The same bell end who usually does :LOL: he appears to be going to all games (away as well) and standing outside.

It would appear to have been daylight robbery on our part to have won that. 29% possession (most of it hoofing it in the air I expect?) and 4 shots to 17 against the bottom team. Taken on the bear face of it, two play offs in three seasons it would appear he's doing a pretty good job but it's desperate stuff to watch most of the time under Jackett and behind closed doors is honestly the best way to watch it. I remember in last season's game MK played some great football to watch.
 
mattmid said:
@rockstrongo
The same bell end who usually does :LOL: he appears to be going to all games (away as well) and standing outside.

It would appear to have been daylight robbery on our part to have won that. 29% possession (most of it hoofing it in the air I expect?) and 4 shots to 17 against the bottom team. Taken on the bear face of it, two play offs in three seasons it would appear he's doing a pretty good job but it's desperate stuff to watch most of the time under Jackett and behind closed doors is honestly the best way to watch it. I remember in last season's game MK played some great football to watch.
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Think I saw a documentary on that bloke a few years back,runs a antique shop/used books or something.
I'm having a very hard time watching any football without fans now,the 1000 people that are allowed in Serie A makes a huge difference.
 
MafiaMurderBag said:
Had a quick go on PES 2011 last night and yeah you're right however it's a lot quicker and a bit more tolerable because of the 360 degree movement.

Yeah I agree, But in fairness, This period in football is a bit of a cross-roads with how average professional footballers and their dribbling ability is conveyed. Even your worse defenders for top flight teams should have capable agility when doing simple turns, Of course some more elegantly than others like your Ferdinand's and Maldini's but I think 10 years ago when these games were based compared to present day, Where almost every footballer is a super athlete to the point where most footballers are all rounders now, The slow turning/dribbling animation wasn't such a necessity in my opinion even back then. I think as you say it was a way of representing the difference between a Messi/Ronaldo and a Vidic/Agger but perhaps too exaggerated in the latter.


It appears so, At least a compromise I think. You can get some realistic enjoyment out of PES 2021 & maybe FIFA but you do have to customize your game settings to look for it. Game speed, Passing/shooting assistance, sliders on the latter, tweaking tactics etc... You basically have to Frankenstein your own game in order to make it more stimulating to play which as a consumer looking for a certain experience isn't always ideal especially when both mainstream games go in the same direction rather than just one of them, giving you an alternative.

I came up with a saying that "These used to be football games, Now they're just games based on football."

Gran Turismo is a racing game, The prefix is the specialist subject that is the priority and is going to be represented faithfully, You can't be disappointed if you play it when you don't even like racing.

GTA is a fun game that's based on racing/driving as a core but it's an exaggerated and accessible version of driving that anyone can pick up and play with out the consequences of not driving properly but there's more attractive activity's on top of the driving fundamentals to accomplish such as missions, Earning money and collecting novelties. Kind of like football games now. The football is the basis but the priority is the engagement with novelty modes such as myClub & FUT and the quickest way to get the player to interreact with these squad building and pack opening screens before they back to the "grind" of playing a football match to get them back to these dopamine triggering pack reveal screens for their rewards than back to the pitch and so on. It's a cycle.

Anyway, Yes that's my take on the philosophy of football gaming over the last 20 years. Started as a novelty distraction, Then they pushed boundaries to see how uncannily they can represent the sport digitally and now we're back to a cutthroat competitive distraction, vying for the consumers attention before they take their money elsewhere and chase their thrills in Fortnite and Roblox.
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Love your refreshing insights as always. With the handball debacle going on in the Premier League, as well as erratic score lines(terrible defending). Do you think the Fortnite and Roblox generation of young footballers are playing Fifa-esque football with seemingly a sole focus of having a 99 Pace, 99 Strength and zero regard to the art of defending?

I may be wrong, but I believe it is the popularity of FUT and MyClub in recent years which have influenced and altered the way football is being played out. Pointless passing for possession's sake, reliance on pace and non-existent defending seems to be the new philosophy of the game. Pains me to see how the game is slowly becoming a high-scoring sport like basketball. A goal is meant to be special in football, I'd take a hard fought 1-0 over a 5,6,7 goal drubbing.

Playing as a centerback in a Sunday league in my late 20s, I am starting to grow disillusioned with this beautiful game we so dearly love. At this rate, defenders are getting penalised for doing the right thing, (how are we supposed to defend with hands-tied on our back), while attackers get to exploit and get away scot-free with the ridiculous hand-ball rule. Will be final straw for me if this handball bullshit seeps into the lower leagues.

Future for football seems bleak when modern football games are influencing the next-generation players to be attacking-oriented and render the art of defending obsolete. Football used to be end-to-end stuff, but players could actually defend.
 
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I think we're feeling the force of the first generation of football fans to be brought up purely on fresh-squeezed football.

Football stopped being a 90 minute game about... Eight years ago, maybe. One recalls Euro 2012 (any football fan worth their salt benchmarks their life by Euros and World Cups) being the last tournament you had to actually watch to see the goals live or near live. Before every game lurched from one social media flurry to another, the rest of the match purely incidental.

We've lost sight of the fact that most football, most of the time, is boring. It was never supposed to be entertainment. Its most exciting feature - the goal - is few and far between. But more by accident, I'm sure, than by design that's what's made it the best sport there is. Every major incident is telling. Add to that the local pride and tribalism as part of its popularity and growth.

Now, most of that has been eroded. A simple game globalised and commercialised to the hilt, becoming evermore narrow and merged into the fast lane. That's certainly played out in MyClub and FUT, all about constant, instant and unrelenting gratification. It's pornification.

I don't blame the young 'uns, really. They're a product of their environment. I feel sorry for them more than anything, but that sympathy is stunted by the obnoxiousness on show. But then that's also an outcome of the world they're immersed in.

Now if you'll excuse me, I've a WE6:FE World Cup to win. Missing out on that game alone is a reason to pity a generation, especially one that's too absorbed in the now to open their mind to it 18 years later.
 
smkusj12 said:
Love your refreshing insights as always. With the handball debacle going on in the Premier League, as well as erratic score lines(terrible defending). Do you think the Fortnite and Roblox generation of young footballers are playing Fifa-esque football with seemingly a sole focus of having a 99 Pace, 99 Strength and zero regard to the art of defending?

I may be wrong, but I believe it is the popularity of FUT and MyClub in recent years which have influenced and altered the way football is being played out. Pointless passing for possession's sake, reliance on pace and non-existent defending seems to be the new philosophy of the game. Pains me to see how the game is slowly becoming a high-scoring sport like basketball. A goal is meant to be special in football, I'd take a hard fought 1-0 over a 5,6,7 goal drubbing.

Playing as a centerback in a Sunday league in my late 20s, I am starting to grow disillusioned with this beautiful game we so dearly love. At this rate, defenders are getting penalised for doing the right thing, (how are we supposed to defend with hands-tied on our back), while attackers get to exploit and get away scot-free with the ridiculous hand-ball rule. Will be final straw for me if this handball bullshit seeps into the lower leagues.

Future for football seems bleak when modern football games are influencing the next-generation players to be attacking-oriented and render the art of defending obsolete. Football used to be end-to-end stuff, but players could actually defend.
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Thanks mate. I don't think FUT & myClub have influenced the way the sport is played even if young footballers play those games, They would still be under strict instructions from their coaches. Even the most exciting branded young players in the world right now such as Mbappe, Haaland and Ansu Fati don't play shaolin football the way it's depicted & encouraged on FIFA.

I think football snowballed into various clubs turning to youth, hunger and especially speed in order to compete with everyone else or get left behind because they game has gotten much, much faster too. In theory the sport has gotten more exciting because of it but at the same time more goals means goals feel less special and games can become less intense. However I also think to your point regarding the trend of possession football and merciless passing for passing's sake is down more to the pressure of the board, money, getting results, at all costs and coaches being terrified of conceding and thus losing.

Except playing that way is fine if your players are experienced enough and talented to, But they are mostly too young, Lack the confidence or footballing wisdom to do this faithfully and that's what leads to teams conceding calamitous goals. An example close to home for me would be the England national team. Sure we did well against Wales this week but at least 1 in every 3 games we concede these stupid goals that are born out of giving away possession from the defence. Southgate insists on players strictly passing it out from the back but they almost always get intercepted and we concede comically. Just look at the Nations League finals against The Netherlands. This is what happens when you try to get your team of young nervy defenders to play like Spain 2010.
 
If you watch the 2002 World Cup again you'll see 15 yellow cards for diving throughout the tournament. What the hell happened to football in the meantime? This game actually used to be watchable, full of intensity and physicality, the ball fluently travelling from one side of the pitch to the other. Today the game gets interrupted any time there is a physical contact, the actual playing time is shorter than ever with this VAR disaster. And with all these penalties given for dives and handballs it's honestly becoming the most ridiculous and unfair sport ever.
 
Meazza84 said:
If you watch the 2002 World Cup again you'll see 15 yellow cards for diving throughout the tournament. What the hell happened to football in the meantime? This game actually used to be watchable, full of intensity and physicality, the ball fluently travelling from one side of the pitch to the other. Today the game gets interrupted any time there is a physical contact, the actual playing time is shorter than ever with this VAR disaster. And with all these penalties given for dives and handballs it's honestly becoming the most ridiculous and unfair sport ever.
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Yeah the biggest inconsistaancy is diving. You've introduced VAR for the sake of the fairest and most sanitised experience for better or for worse, Yet it still doesn't solve the problem of diving and simulation. What is even the point?

Nowadays it's if any kind of contact with a player no matter if it's light as a feather and wouldn't affect the attackers situation at all is considered a foul and a penalty so long as the player theatrically throws himself to the ground.

Look at this example at 1:57 for a joke of a penalty, Disgraceful.

 
Meazza84 said:
If you watch the 2002 World Cup again you'll see 15 yellow cards for diving throughout the tournament. What the hell happened to football in the meantime? This game actually used to be watchable, full of intensity and physicality, the ball fluently travelling from one side of the pitch to the other. Today the game gets interrupted any time there is a physical contact, the actual playing time is shorter than ever with this VAR disaster. And with all these penalties given for dives and handballs it's honestly becoming the most ridiculous and unfair sport ever.
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MafiaMurderBag said:
Yeah the biggest inconsistaancy is diving. You've introduced VAR for the sake of the fairest and most sanitised experience for better or for worse, Yet it still doesn't solve the problem of diving and simulation. What is even the point?

Nowadays it's if any kind of contact with a player no matter if it's light as a feather and wouldn't affect the attackers situation at all is considered a foul and a penalty so long as the player theatrically throws himself to the ground.

Look at this example at 1:57 for a joke of a penalty, Disgraceful.

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Exactly. Might as well let attackers play a no-contact sport like netball. Chuck in shoulder pads and helmets to protect the divers.
 
When people talk about the speed of the modern game, they do so because today's pitches are 100 times better than 20 years ago, and the balls travel faster. So the passes sometimes look like ping pong: they are very fast, even the precise ground passes. All that, with better shoes and equipment, is what technology has brought to football and we should thank it for that. But the footballers are not faster than before; speed is more or less genetically innate and there is only so much you can do with training. What today's training methods improve is stamina and durability, and modern medicine allows for better recovery from injury.
 
Diving is effectively encouraged. See: David Luiz on Oli Burke last week. The latter punished for staying on his feet. Honesty isn't the best policy in football.

The aversion to retrospective punishment has always escaped me. Always thought that games should've been almost re-refereed after the event and any clear instances of simulation punished. That said, we have that type of system in Scotland and it doesn't work too well. That said, you don't enjoy in England the same level of paranoia, pettiness and petulance as we do!

What us humble supporters are up against: https://evo-web.co.uk/threads/the-evo-web-football-thoughts-blog.68803/post-3599378
 
Meazza84 said:
When people talk about the speed of the modern game, they do so because today's pitches are 100 times better than 20 years ago, and the balls travel faster. So the passes sometimes look like ping pong: they are very fast, even the precise ground passes. All that, with better shoes and equipment, is what technology has brought to football and we should thank it for that. But the footballers are not faster than before; speed is more or less genetically innate and there is only so much you can do with training. What today's training methods improve is stamina and durability, and modern medicine allows for better recovery from injury.
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That is very much true that technology, pitches and general conditions have contributed to the change in football but what I mean by the players getting faster isn't necessarily that they're genetically enhanced or that their super athletes or anything, But the training and nutrition and physiotherapy has evolved so much as well as more & more younger players who are in their physical prime & fitness are playing over those in their mid to late 20's that it's going to be an amalgamation of overall increase of pace in the sport.
 
I see. What I meant when I wrote speed is more or less innate is that it virtually cannot be improved by practice. Of course, if you're overweight or out of shape, or you don't know how to run properly and you need to improve your running technique, that's another thing, but we're talking about professional athletes. Training, nutrition and physiotherapy don't improve your speed that much compared to, say, 30-40 years ago, if at all. But they really help you with injure/fatigue recovery, stamina and endurance.

This TED talk is amazing, I really recommend it. :) Jesse Owens would be one stride away from Ussain Bolt if he ran on the same pitch with the same shoes. This is the improvement in speed in 90 years of olympic sport.


As for younger players getting more playing time, that would of course increase the overall pace. I didn't really notice that, but then I'm just a casual football watcher nowadays. :)
 
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MafiaMurderBag said:
But the training and nutrition and physiotherapy has evolved so much as well as more & more younger players who are in their physical prime & fitness are playing over those in their mid to late 20's that it's going to be an amalgamation of overall increase of pace in the sport.
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I don't disagree with most of that but put them on this pitch and I'd argue they'd be no faster than the players playing then. Give them 90 minutes running through that and see if they are any fitter.


 
Take a look at the game Bosnia - Belgium played a couple of years ago on a muddy pitch. It looked like some Rosenborg - Olympiakos from 1987, not faster.

Remember what San Siro used to look like in early 2000s? More mud than gras.
 
As the first ISS(PE(S)) (that's my latest and clumsy attempt to throw a blanket term over the era) that I played extensively, ISS PE has a special place in my heart and it has held up magnificently. Of course the coarse graphics are sometimes literally a headache but emulation has given them a new lease of life for me. Portable isn't new, but it's come on a fair bit:

20201013_131931.jpg

It's still a bloody tough nut to crack. Unless, of course, you Babangida your team somehow. Get yourself a 9 speed or 8 on a red arrow and it's a hell of a lot easier with the one-two, 45° angle one-on-one system. I don't think Portugal will have that luxury in the squad? In fact, I'm not sure Babangida was around in that game... I think the poor man's Babs was Simeu/Simo of Cameroon... I'll check later. One of those things that's too geeky to Google!
 
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