Top Spin 4

Lami said:
Also ultra realism would mean spending hours on one match only...
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Not really...

I'm not sure about the exact timing of it, but in a real tennis match, probably less than half of the duration of the match is actually spent playing - in a video game all of these breaks in play are removed or significantly reduced, meaning the game would be much quicker.

If the game still takes too long, you could just reduce the number of sets...

You can't just pass off the absence of unforced errors as "making the game more fun"... That's like saying FIFA's lack of passing error makes the game more fun.
 
After a few day with the full game i gotta say i find it one of the most fun games i played in quite a long time (the last sport game i enjoyed as much as this was rugby 06)

Very good on line too!

There are a few unforced errors here and there and it is very hard to serve an ace. But i guess these are sacrifices the developers had to do in order to balance the game.

The core idea: u gotta work your ass of for a point.

Main complain: no single tournament to play and no John Mcenroe (limited rosters as usual).

but an old school "easy to play difficult to master" fluent and addictive gameplay. very happy to have picked this one up!.
 
Lami said:
Also ultra realism would mean spending hours on one match only...
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Just to further add to my previous post - nearly every point in TS4 is a long rally, so if anything, more realistic gameplay would make the games NOT last as long.
 
Rob92 said:
Just to further add to my previous post - nearly every point in TS4 is a long rally, so if anything, more realistic gameplay would make the games NOT last as long.
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i play serve and volley (r1), tons of points are very short. in hard sometimes very hard.
 
Wendetta said:
i play serve and volley (r1), tons of points are very short. in hard sometimes very hard.
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That's what I did on TS3 most of the time.

Look at someone like Nadal in real life though, he rarely comes to the net to finish off points, yet you don't see him playing long rallies too often...
 
If you can't finish off points quickly with Nadal then you're just not very good at the game. On serve, it's a simple case of serve then if it's good you'll have the perfect opportunity to play a flat power shot that with Nadal is precise and 9/10 a winner.

There are plenty of unforced errors too. Especially when you wear the opponent down and they have low stamina.
 
Playing hard, yesterday I had my opponent with the stamina bar completely depleted, and he was able to cope with a rally of ten additional points, including going to the net, then runnin back to return a lob with perfect precision from a backwards position.

And lots of points should end quicker. When I ask for unforced errors and more realism, it's because I think the game would be a lot more fun. I don't find it funny to have 30 hit rallies all the time, and I only put the ball out once every 10 or 15 points.

Saying realism would mean less fun it's a cliche, it's not a valid standpoint as long as we aren't served a more realistic game and we can compare. But TS3 was more fun to me than Virtua Tennis and was more realistic. I know there must be a balance, but the thing is all games nowadays are biased towards the numb range of players.

How on earth it's almost impossible to miss a serve? Or miss a hit in general? Even if you press the button 5 seconds before, you put it in! I mean, come on, the game is good, but with the lack of realism won't go any further. I watch tons of tennis and unforced and forced errors are what make the winner. I'm totally convinced that having a lot more forced and unforced errors the game would play a lot better and would be a lot more fun. Points would end quicker and you would scream for balls that go near the line. There must be a lot more thrill to the hits you make, and having a lot more errors will make your good points stand out a lot more.

I don't think the game rewards the best tennis skills, but the best "gaming" skills, just like fifa.
 
I totally disagree. If u play with an "attacking" mentality, meaning you try to put as much pressure as possible on your opponents since the very early shots and you try to gain space and depth, points can be very short (on hard especially). If u play passively then u can have very long rally. Just like in real life, serve and first shots decide 90% of the time how the point will be played.

I also disagree about unforced errors, playing with some created players or even with some official ones there is plenty of errors. I can hardly pull a decent serve with half the women out there.

I think it has become a cliche' to criticize every sport game for the lack of realism. Much depends on how you approach the game, there is no such a thing as "a game per se", the way you play it is crucial for the experience. I only read complains about every f. game from some people. some people should focus more on the positive side of things.
 
drekkard said:
Playing hard, yesterday I had my opponent with the stamina bar completely depleted, and he was able to cope with a rally of ten additional points, including going to the net, then runnin back to return a lob with perfect precision from a backwards position.

And lots of points should end quicker. When I ask for unforced errors and more realism, it's because I think the game would be a lot more fun. I don't find it funny to have 30 hit rallies all the time, and I only put the ball out once every 10 or 15 points.

Saying realism would mean less fun it's a cliche, it's not a valid standpoint as long as we aren't served a more realistic game and we can compare. But TS3 was more fun to me than Virtua Tennis and was more realistic. I know there must be a balance, but the thing is all games nowadays are biased towards the numb range of players.

How on earth it's almost impossible to miss a serve? Or miss a hit in general? Even if you press the button 5 seconds before, you put it in! I mean, come on, the game is good, but with the lack of realism won't go any further. I watch tons of tennis and unforced and forced errors are what make the winner. I'm totally convinced that having a lot more forced and unforced errors the game would play a lot better and would be a lot more fun. Points would end quicker and you would scream for balls that go near the line. There must be a lot more thrill to the hits you make, and having a lot more errors will make your good points stand out a lot more.

I don't think the game rewards the best tennis skills, but the best "gaming" skills, just like fifa.
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Good post.

I also hate the notion that realism = less fun.
This may be true, for example, if once you died in COD, your game wouldn't play any more, and rather just say "YOU ARE DEAD!" whenever it booted up.
Or a racing game that's as difficult as the real thing, making it totally inaccessible unless you're a pro racing driver.

Nobody is asking for over-the-top realism like that...

Shearer_God said:
If you can't finish off points quickly with Nadal then you're just not very good at the game. On serve, it's a simple case of serve then if it's good you'll have the perfect opportunity to play a flat power shot that with Nadal is precise and 9/10 a winner.

There are plenty of unforced errors too. Especially when you wear the opponent down and they have low stamina.
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What if you place your serve wrong, or have to play a safe second serve that can be aggressively returned?

Oh yeah, neither of those things happen after practicing a bit, because serving is piss-easy...

Okay then, maybe Nadal wasn't the best example to use, but too many long rallies are a well known problem with the game.

"Plenty" of unforced errors? That's a joke, surely.
 
Wendetta said:
best tennis game out there. quite simple.
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I disagree.

Dream Match Tennis Pro offers far less scripted, more realistic gameplay... Also the World Tour mode seems better than TS4's career mode.

jonneymendoza said:
sounds like horse shit to me. heres hoping VT will be better
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VT will be the same old arcade game, it's just what it is.
It was brilliant fun all those years ago for Dreamcast, but they've milked it for far too long now, and it just doesn't work now that the hardware can do so much more.

There's EA's Grand Slam Tennis as well, I think there's a 360/PS3 release planned? Not sure when for though, but it may be worth a look.
 
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jonneymendoza said:
sounds like horse shit to me. heres hoping VT will be better
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Very mature, what about downloading the demo and figure it out yourself?


Dream Match tennis? ah...most boring tennis game ever. nice physics... u hit balls that are 2 metres far away from your racket.
 
Wendetta said:
Dream Match tennis? ah...most boring tennis game ever. nice physics... u hit balls that are 2 metres far away from your racket.
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So what if the animation doesn't make the racquet match up to the ball perfectly?

You already said that the physics are "nice", this is far more important than animations and visuals - then add the fact that the gameplay allows proper tennis tactics to work rather than purely "gaming" skills and you have a game that wipes the floor with TS (in everything but visuals).

"most boring tennis game ever", great piece of wisdom there.
 
Wendetta said:
Very mature, what about downloading the demo and figure it out yourself?


Dream Match tennis? ah...most boring tennis game ever. nice physics... u hit balls that are 2 metres far away from your racket.
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i've tried the demo and it was shit.

i thought maybe the retail version is better but it aint. seems like a step back from TS3.

Im like Rob, i like realism and when i heard his impressions of this game i knew it will be shit.

looks like VT will be even worse so yet again no decent fucking tennis game to play.

i blame majority of console gamers. they are ruining gaming IMO. most want pick up and play arcade fun games and this is what sells. we will "never" play a sports game that offers realism. they will all be dumbed down for the masses and its shocking.
 
you people are just not capable of enjoying videogames for what they are...games to be played with some friends to have some fun. there are plenty of games out there for that. top spin being one of them.

ur eletist attitude is just some sort of psychological obession with this ultrarealism that no game, no matter what, will ever recreate.

But blame the masses of the people...you are just so superior to everyone else...
 
And you know what?

In real tennis regardless of the position and timing of your swing u can always change the direction of the ball with a tiny movements of your wrist (which is actually the essence of the game, unpredictability given by an almost invisible movement that only a few can really master).

can u move you wrist in dream tennis so u can change the direction of ur shot? No, u can't. So it is not realistic at all.
 
Most people are talking out of their arse here.

Constantly complaining, over and over again like its going to fucking change anything.

Its very simple. Virtua Tennis is an arcade game. Dream Match Tennis is an attempt at a simulation. Top Spin sits somewhere in the middle.

Guess what? All of them can be great fun! SHOCKING I KNOW!

Some peoples 'elitist' views are absolutely pathetic. They actually think that their opinions are being listened to and might change the future of this genre. Highly unlikely. Why? Because their opinions are based on the subjective matter of entertainment and fun within the video games sector. One persons crock of steaming shit is another mans gold. Deal with it.

At the end of the day despite what you think the game developers are always going to attempt to target the majority who tend to sit in the middle while sometimes servicing the vocal 'sim' community with a few things here and there. Its sound business tactics. Thats all it is and all it ever will be.
 
BillyBoy said:
Most people are talking out of their arse here.

Constantly complaining, over and over again like its going to fucking change anything.

Its very simple. Virtua Tennis is an arcade game. Dream Match Tennis is an attempt at a simulation. Top Spin sits somewhere in the middle.

Guess what? All of them can be great fun! SHOCKING I KNOW!

Some peoples 'elitist' views are absolutely pathetic. They actually think that their opinions are being listened to and might change the future of this genre. Highly unlikely. Why? Because their opinions are based on the subjective matter of entertainment and fun within the video games sector. One persons crock of steaming shit is another mans gold. Deal with it.

At the end of the day despite what you think the game developers are always going to attempt to target the majority who tend to sit in the middle while sometimes servicing the vocal 'sim' community with a few things here and there. Its sound business tactics. Thats all it is and all it ever will be.
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So what you´re saying is: shut up and keep buying our games because that´s the bes you´ll get. That seems much with an EA CEO talk, you should look for a job at EA, billy. :LOL:
 
Lol. I'm not a developer, i'm a realistic business man.

If you have unbelievable aspirations of what a game should be like your probably setting yourself up for a huge disappointment. We see it year after year with PES & FIFA.

The only time things change is when something goes horribly wrong. E.g. the early next gen entries of PES. If a game is buggy then by all means make your voice heard, your entitled to as you have paid for a product which doesn't meet a general consensus on expected quality.

However Top Spin 4 does not suffer from major bugs that would entitle us to evoke such harsh criticism. Only certain failings (some perceived by others and not by others) which in the grand scheme of things doesn't reduce the level of entertainment of the product to nil. Far from it, Top Spin 4 is still an enjoyable product.

Which brings me back to my point of one mans rubbish is another mans gold. Certain people may dislike the game but it isn't crap. Their opinion isn't worth more (despite what they think) just because they are criticising the title. Both opinions are valid and fair. However constant criticism isn't a sign of superior subjectivity or intelligence. In fact its more a sign of a pessimistic, cynical existence which isn't a healthy attitude as the notion of perfection is an idea that can never be realised.

I best shut up as i'm moving more onto a philosophical tangent which many members may not care for since this is just a video game forum after all lol. :)
 
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So why not create a game that can be fully adjustable to be as realistic or as arcade as you want?

2K sports does this fantastic on nba 2k games with game sliders so why cant others follow suit?

Why does a game have to be either arcade or sim? why not both if all you care about is chasing the doller?

Yes arcade games can be fun but so can realistic games and there is hardly any around. thats the point. top spin 4 tries to be realistic but fails on its face just like fifa.

This is nothing to do with pc or consoles, its the fact that there is hardly any realistic games on either consoles or pc's, especially in tennis.

TS4 i was expecting it to be more realistic but instead it has become more arcade and it is more close to being an arcade pick up and play game like VT. why do we need two games to be similar ie arcade? whats wrong with a realistic tennis game for once?
 
Im all for sliders. I think they are great and I like my games to be more realistic in certain situations.

Wether the developers will bother to put that into a game is another question. I hear FIFA 12 might have this, but how long have people been asking for stuff like this. Instead they put in stuff like 2 button systems because its sadly going to attract a bigger audience and therefore more moolah. Whats even worse is that they do that and it doesn't even suit the game. Its not like SWOS where a 1 button or 2 button system is an elegant way to play the game.

All im saying is lets just be realistic for once and tone down our expectations. If not its just a repeat cycle over here. Hype, disappointment, criticise, repeat. Sometimes the cycles different but sadly its almost applied to every game good or bad which is wrong because its not always fully deserved.
 
Empathise with everyone tbh. There are obviously parallels to be drawn with FIFA and PES, though at the same time there are significant differences.

My own view is that, not having owned a tennis game since VT2 and not knowing enough about tennis to have a feeling for how mistimings might manifest themselves in real life, it is a fun game up until you reach a certain level of opponent. When I was level 10 I was still enjoying some great battles without overly long rallies, and I was making and witnessing unforced errors at both ends of the court. Now that I'm fully developed, that doesn't seem to be the case. There are still some mistakes (on very hard) but the number of rallies hitting 30+ is far too high, and the standard of shot being hit back is too high for my liking. The doubles matches are pretty absurd too - the reaction times of CPU net play is bizarrely high.

It's still a fun game, but at the same time I feel like it has peaked and that there's nothing more to uncover. Online is fairly barren and the opponents range from appalling to world class exploiters (one guy had very high service and power, and managed bullet serves right on the line every single time).

Could really have done with sliders...
 
Placebo said:
Fifa 12 won't have sliders is what I'm hearing :(
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I was already expecting that from EA, they don´t need to waste time making those "useless" adjustments when they can improve $UT$, put some teams, stadiums, balls, shirts and other kinds of shit to me purchased as a DLC and make the next Fifa even better than Tiger Woods Cash Machine 2012.

But that´s ok, they´re business men, we have to understand them, we have to shut up our useless complain and understand them.

FUCK YOU, EA!!!!
 
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