PES 2013 Discussion Thread

This game is forcing me into fast-paced end-to-end football. Everytime I attack and lose the ball, my midfield is completely empty, and the opposition can just race forward. Similarly, everytime I win the ball in defence I have acres of space ahead of me. Almost the whole team attacks and defends together, so that there's never anyone in midfield positions.

Realistically, I should be spending the MAJORITY of the match in the midfield area.

Starting to feel that the Ai super dribbling of 2012 is back abit. Agility too - the AI start new animations before finishing the previous one so the body movements just look grossly unnatural and fast.

Hope next years new engine makes some considerable differences.

EDIT - Yeah, I wish I could screenshot it - the midfield is an absolutely VACANT gaping space all the time.
 
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For the most of last night I absolutely HATED this game until I decided that I simply had to start from scratch in learning the game.

The first thing I did was stopped playing to win and took one discipline I found myself to be truly awful at and that was dribbling. Guilty of not getting it at all, though having a basic understanding that was enough to see me play reasonably well against Professional, I had to spend some time trying to learn it's finer points while playing against Top Player.

What a difference it has made to this game for me.

What I was doing was failing to utilise R2 dribbling correctly. Instead of 'pulsing' R2 as I was turning with the ball, I was pressing then trying to turn, which inevitably leads to players (slowly) entering into the rather rubbish lateral moves and locking up. While there is very much a use for the lateral movements, it just ain't enough to give you the quickness of foot required in tight situations, or allow you to burst quickly when looking to take a man on. "Pulsing" R2 however sees your player show greater close control and presents better angles to attack. It also allows for the little skipping past challenge move to occur far more regularly, meaning that you suddenly start dishing the CPU some of it's own medicine.

Of course, with me now having greater understanding of this mechanic, it has now presented more options to my build up play and the wider array of passing options that manifest as a result.

A couple of posts up a lad is talking about midfield being this great wide chasm. This EXACTLY what I was experiencing the previous two nights as I got myself bogged down the wrong playing style; trying to play too simply and too quickly with the ball instead of wriggling free or skipping past the odd challenge and playing a neater brand of football in midfield. I am now playing using 0 bar assistance with absolute confidence.

Regards defending, like I have said I have switched off from getting too bogged down in it for the moment whilst I try to master the possession game as best possible. What I am seeing though is that due to me playing with more confidence and imagination now I feel far more comfortable on the ball is that my team mates aren't overlapping as regularly, as I am not depending on all that support to help me play my way up the pitch. The end result seems to be that If I lose the ball I have more defensively ready players in the right positions and tus it slows the COM down somewhat.

Absolutely key to defence on top player are three things:

- Get control of a CB as soon as possible and mark up or even tease an attacker into moving into the space if you drop deep then quickly move up leaving him offside. At the very least change cursor away from a player who is nearest the man possession and let the ai hold him up, while you mark another player or cut out passing angles.

- If you are engaging the man on the ball, look to avoid doing so in isolation. Try to hold him up and bring a second man in while you still play the hold up game.

- Get in the habit of at least switching back to a deeper player and moving him back towards your defensive line then turn and look to mark from there. Your team mates are very effective at hold up play if you do your duties off the ball correctly. The COM might still keep possession but the AI can slow them down, thus allowing you precious seconds to organise before applying some pressure. The COM can run out of space and options when you do this effectively, seeing them rush play and make mistakes.

It should be said though that while the above is effective when defending, I feel the game should not make these techniques the rule as opposed to the exception.
 
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I'd been having a similar feeling, that the game was too open and with no midfield, then I realised that I was the one forcing it. I noticed recently that when I don't have the ball, engaging with an opponent while sprinting seems to make the CPU sprint too. And when that happens, it nails you every time, and stretches out the play. What you then have is a situation where both sets of players are sprinting up and down the pitch repeatedly, creating a void in the midfield area because the players can't get up and down the pitch in time to keep up with the ball that's zipping around the park.

The CPU reacts to how you are playing. I'd recommend anyone experimenting with sprinting when you have the ball, then jogging with the ball. The aggressiveness of the CPU kicks up a notch as soon as you hit sprint. It's the same when you're defending. Approach an attacker at slow speed, sure footed and balanced, and the CPU will slow itself too and reconsider what to do. Sprint into a tackle or even in the immediate area near an attacker and it'll see that you're not balanced and skip right past you at full sprint itself.

So tonight I experimented with avoiding using sprint when defending and attacking unless it was absolute necessary, and it instantly played a far superior game. With the ball, I'd only sprint momentarily to get away from a player, or if there was open space down the wings etc. Without the ball, I'd only sprint to get a defending player into a better defensive position but still at a reasonable distance from the CPU player with the ball. Once I got remotely near, I'd manually guide and jockey by using nothing but the L stick, and when really close, press A to jockey and occasionally use the touble tap of A or R1 buttons to try and win the ball. This makes you approach a tackle while at jogging/walking speed and the CPU reacts by thinking twice about trying to dribble, and waits for support. If it does try to dribble, it's not that successful because you now have a slower approach speed, the CPU's approach speed with the ball is greatly reduced, and you make the tackle. When both sides are sprinting, the CPU beats you every time.

The result? The CPU seemed to react to that and because I wasn't sprinting constantly at the CPU to try and win the ball back, it was playing a slower, more considered game against me. This also meant that players weren't being pulled all over the park and suddenly there were tons of midfield battles. By laying off sprint for most of the time, I was suddenly able to win the ball a LOT more than before, and it also made me more aware of better defensive positioning in terms of reducing passing lanes etc. This also has an effect on how fast the CPU passes the ball. If you sprint all over the place and the play becomes stretched, the CPU will try to exploit that and smack hard, quick passes to try and take advantage of the fact that your players are out of position. If you slow everything down, everyone is closer together, both sides are moving slower, and it has to resort to playing slower, more deliberate passes because your defenders are in their correct defensive positions.

I found the same for attacking, too. By laying off the sprint button I felt like I could dribble better, and best of all, there are far more passing options in attack because supporting players now actually have the time to support you.

But it's definite, try sprinting and you'll see the CPU react accordingly.
 
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Oh and yeah, as Curdstar rightly says, if you're in a situation when your back line are backing off as the last line of defence, I always select a CB, keep control of him, and manually move him to track the run that will always be looking for a through pass. Once you get used to it you can use that player to step up and play the offside trap. Using X to bring in a second man will pressure the guy on the ball looking to play the through-ball, and while having to cope with being pressured, the CPU player on the ball will also not be able to play a through pass because your CB is being manually controlled to cut out the pass, should it happen.

But this defensive mechanic is vital to stopping through-balls.

On a different note, I was mucking about with crossing using L1, and found that you can score headers from deep crosses by holding L1, crossing, then instantly pushing the L stick away from the goal. You can get a huge amount of curl on the cross, and twice tonight I scored a powerful header from a deep cross looped into the box. I've discovered that using L1 almost 'locks' onto the player in the box, making it easier for them to jump and win the header, especially from deep crosses that hang in the air before the striker jumps to head the ball.
 
Suuuuupertalk said:
I'd been having a similar feeling, that the game was too open and with no midfield, then I realised that I was the one forcing it. I noticed recently that when I don't have the ball, engaging with an opponent while sprinting seems to make the CPU sprint too. And when that happens, it nails you every time, and stretches out the play. What you then have is a situation where both sets of players are sprinting up and down the pitch repeatedly, creating a void in the midfield area because the players can't get up and down the pitch in time to keep up with the ball that's zipping around the park.

The CPU reacts to how you are playing. I'd recommend anyone experimenting with sprinting when you have the ball, then jogging with the ball. The aggressiveness of the CPU kicks up a notch as soon as you hit sprint. It's the same when you're defending. Approach an attacker at slow speed, sure footed and balanced, and the CPU will slow itself too and reconsider what to do. Sprint into a tackle or even in the immediate area near an attacker and it'll see that you're not balanced and skip right past you at full sprint itself.

So tonight I experimented with avoiding using sprint when defending and attacking unless it was absolute necessary, and it instantly played a far superior game. With the ball, I'd only sprint momentarily to get away from a player, or if there was open space down the wings etc. Without the ball, I'd only sprint to get a defending player into a better defensive position but still at a reasonable distance from the CPU player with the ball. Once I got remotely near, I'd manually guide and jockey by using nothing but the L stick, and when really close, press A to jockey and occasionally use the touble tap of A or R1 buttons to try and win the ball. This makes you approach a tackle while at jogging/walking speed and the CPU reacts by thinking twice about trying to dribble, and waits for support. If it does try to dribble, it's not that successful because you now have a slower approach speed, the CPU's approach speed with the ball is greatly reduced, and you make the tackle. When both sides are sprinting, the CPU beats you every time.

The result? The CPU seemed to react to that and because I wasn't sprinting constantly at the CPU to try and win the ball back, it was playing a slower, more considered game against me. This also meant that players weren't being pulled all over the park and suddenly there were tons of midfield battles. By laying off sprint for most of the time, I was suddenly able to win the ball a LOT more than before, and it also made me more aware of better defensive positioning in terms of reducing passing lanes etc. This also has an effect on how fast the CPU passes the ball. If you sprint all over the place and the play becomes stretched, the CPU will try to exploit that and smack hard, quick passes to try and take advantage of the fact that your players are out of position. If you slow everything down, everyone is closer together, both sides are moving slower, and it has to resort to playing slower, more deliberate passes because your defenders are in their correct defensive positions.

I found the same for attacking, too. By laying off the sprint button I felt like I could dribble better, and best of all, there are far more passing options in attack because supporting players now actually have the time to support you.

But it's definite, try sprinting and you'll see the CPU react accordingly.
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I barely ever sprint to be honest, it speeds the game right up. By sprinting you also reduce the available options and restrict the Active A.I., this is due to the fact, as in real-life, your players are less sure of what your intentions are, therefore become limited in their positioning and offering you decent options. Retain possession by jogging and using R2 to keep the ball close, and the options will open up for you, especially when using the Possession Game preset. The positional variations will alter quite dramatically. Patience is your best friend, the sprint button is your worst enemy for the most part. In my opinion.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
I barely ever sprint to be honest, it speeds the game right up. By sprinting you also reduce the available options and restrict the Active A.I., this is due to the fact, as in real-life, your players are less sure of what your intentions are, therefore become limited in their positioning and giving you options. Retain possession by jogging and using R2 to keep the ball close, and the options will open up for. The positional variations will alter quite dramatically. Patience is your best friend, the sprint button is your worst enemy for the most part. In my opinion.
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Definitely, it's a trap I always fall into, especially when I don't have the ball, as the natural instinct is to go and win it back again. But just as in real life, PES this year doesn't really let you do that without the game being horribly stretched. Cutting off passing lanes, being patient with your defender etc is vastly more effective and stops the CPU from ripping you apart because it won't have the holes all over the pitch to exploit - that and tackling at slow speed works 200% better than just jumping into a tackle.

The mechanic works really well because you can have a match that is in midfield, slow, and because of the various ways of tackling you can be pretty dirty on the poor ole' CPU ;)) There's the standing hack from behind to clip their legs, using the L stick to direct your player 'into' the opponent to make them stumble off the ball (my favourite), and the good old slide tackle. Or, you can jockey and use R1 to do the good old lunging tackle to 'upset their rhythm' when tackling from behind.....

What's good about it though is that you need to defend patiently, but when you're losing with minutes to go, you won't have time to do that. What happens then is that you do need to start chasing, sprinting, and sometimes the CPU even does it to get back into the game, which can result in matches that suddenly open up late on because one team stretches itself out of desperation to get a goal.

Like Curdstar says about dribbling though, I need to start 'pulsing' R2. I tend to use and hold R2 when changing direction, which works, but takes too long to then snap out of the sideways dribble animation where he drags his foot over the ball.
 
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PES 2013 really limits how you can use sprint. Like 2012 introduced R2 as a "MUST USE" control to get anywhere, the CPU will now rob you of the ball the second you hold R1 too long. And if you hold it for more than a second, it's probably too long.

I also need more time to learn R2 properly for this game. I had it pretty much nailed in 2012, but those days are over.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
I barely ever sprint to be honest, it speeds the game right up. By sprinting you also reduce the available options and restrict the Active A.I., this is due to the fact, as in real-life, your players are less sure of what your intentions are, therefore become limited in their positioning and offering you decent options. Retain possession by jogging and using R2 to keep the ball close, and the options will open up for. The positional variations will alter quite dramatically. Patience is your best friend, the sprint button is your worst enemy for the most part. In my opinion.
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I've said this before and i got zero response.. Folks go like: "I see no movement.. it's too static.. but the cpu ai makes runs all over the place etc.."

Wasn't it Socrates that said: "Players that run with the ball don't think, players who think on the ball don't (have to) run.
 
gomito#10 said:
Wow all this sprint stuff is spot on
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I'm suprised that suprises you to be honest. From what I can remember about those games we played online a couple of years ago, was how super composed you were on the ball, and the way you sprayed the ball around. I was chasing shadows, and you barely used the sprint button at all. :CONFUSE:

Also, I could never understand why people would state that there is no midfield play in PES 2013. It's the exact opposite for me, it's all in midfield.

On another note, I read you thought the patch had reverted the CPU back to the deep defensive lines of PES 2012. I don't believe that to be the case. Although last night, after going 2-0 down with 30 minutes to play in my ML against Hull, it certainly looked like that was the case. They had everyone behind the ball, and instead of looking to hit me on the counter as they had done all game, they started to retain possession and pass it around the midfield and back four.

I paused the game and checked the Gameplan, and the CPU had indeed countered my 3-2-5 All-Out Attack Preset tactic with a 5-3-2 All-Out-Defence option. They didn't have a silly formation, it was just perfect to counter what I had done, and they got everyone behind the ball. Bastards.

They held out for the 2-0 win as well.
 
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Fox engine should have been this year to win back customers after the last two dreadful PES's.
Next year will be too late.
Having read Alan's post it's interesting but it's a game. Football is a simple game so why do Konami complicate it.
As above posters have said the casual gamer don't want to still be learning the game in 6 months.
I'm pretty sure the best PES's weren't so in depth. You had to do a bit of tweaking but nothing major. You could pick up and play. That's why we all loves early versions.
 
amier said:
I've said this before and i got zero response.. Folks go like: "I see no movement.. it's too static.. but the cpu ai makes runs all over the place etc.."

Wasn't it Socrates that said: "Players that run with the ball don't think, players who think on the ball don't (have to) run.
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I'm not sure, but it is one hell of a line, and spot on. :TU:

Let the ball do the work, rule number 1.

SteelHorse75 said:
Fox engine should have been this year to win back customers after the last two dreadful PES's.
Next year will be too late.
Having read Alan's post it's interesting but it's a game. Football is a simple game so why do Konami complicate it.
As above posters have said the casual gamer don't want to still be learning the game in 6 months.
I'm pretty sure the best PES's weren't so in depth. You had to do a bit of tweaking but nothing major. You could pick up and play. That's why we all loves early versions.
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The casual gamer can go play Fifa on fully assisted if that's what they want to do. Or, they can play PES on Regular with 4-Bar Passing Assistance. I would imagine they are both very 'casual'.

The older PES games were not as in-depth, hence the reason, in my opinion, the likes of PES 2013 smash the likes of PES 5 and 6 in the realism stakes. And in so many different area's, I'd be here all day listing them.

If you want PES 13 to be 'pick-up-and-play', the settings are there to allow you to do that. That is deliberate, it's for the old skool PES 6 type players. If you want something a lot deeper, then go for Zero or 1-Bar Assistance.
 
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One day people will learn the secrets of PES

............
actually screw that I am going to tell you.

Stop pressing R1 and start pressing R2 :)....it is that simple. I dont understand this age of instant gratification these days people want to sprint and do everything.

The way you attack the CPU or defend against it is not like it was in PES6 you cant sprint and do everything which I think is the biggest deterent for people to come back to the series.

Having said this I still feel there are moments that the CPU just pushes the envelope a little too much with the scripting. I played world cup final against Brazil after 2 tries I was allover them and was unlucky not to get passed an on form goal keeper. The damn CPU then carved out an opportunity which I saved but the ball went right through my goalies chest :O

Shame on you Konami!!

Loving it though and just about ready to start my ML campaign.

Online 0 pass assist is the most fun you can have with your pants on ...or off
 
Fuxk forgot the point I was trying to make. If konami must introduce that much lauded evo-web active stamina system where players make sprint bursts and have to recover ala NBA2k series Konami will force players into slowing it down. Which could actually be a bad thing considering what people seem to want from football ganes.


The little boys and girls are gonna gegt annnoyed when messi needs a 10 second breather after running the lenght of the pitch full throttle.
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
I'm suprised that suprises you to be honest. From what I can remember about those games we played online a couple of years ago, was how super composed you were on the ball, and the way you sprayed the ball around. I was chasing shadows, and you barely used the sprint button at all. :CONFUSE:

Also, I could never understand why people would state that there is no midfield play in PES 2013. It's the exact opposite for me, it's all in midfield.

On another note, I read you thought the patch had reverted the CPU back to the deep defensive lines of PES 2012. I don't believe that to be the case. Although last night, after going 2-0 down with 30 minutes to play in my ML against Hull, it certainly looked like that was the case. They had everyone behind the ball, and instead of looking to hit me on the counter as they had done all game, they started to retain possession and pass it around the midfield and back four.

I paused the game and checked the Gameplan, and the CPU had indeed countered my 3-2-5 All-Out Attack Preset tactic with a 5-3-2 All-Out-Defence option. They didn't have a silly formation, it was just perfect to counter what I had done, and they got everyone behind the ball. Bastards.

They held out for the 2-0 win as well.
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never tried no sprint on d and its amazing... Didn't notice the deeps lines as much
 
Spot on Alan and Zee, R2 is everything. I've been beating the old R2 drum for years, but with each year it's importance and relevance becomes even more apparent.

I absolutely love the Circle then tap of R2 'High Lofted Pass' ( I think you can hold R2 as well as pressing it after to do the same thing btw).

Here is an instance where it worked perfectly. The ball receiver takes it under control with R2 but then is chased down by the CPU defender. The CPU defender is blocking the passing lane so a pass on the deck would only have been blocked or intercepted. I would also suggest a normal high pass would not have had the elevation to clear the CPU player also. Circle, then our friend R2 though, did exactly what I wanted. Brilliant.

YouTube - PES 13 - The R2 High Pass

YouTube - PES 13 R2 High Pass 2



Also, try pressing R2 if your chasing down a 50/50 ball, if you reach the ball first, pressing R2 will nick the ball away with the deftest of touches or cheeky relevant skills. I use this all the time to drift past players and create time and space in tight areas. The R2 'Heel Flick' is a classic in close quarters.

YouTube - R2 Heel Flick

YouTube - R2 Heel Flick 2
 
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Suuuuupertalk said:
It's not clear to a lot of people which is why everyone's trying to be helpful on here.
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Exactly, and especially the PES 6 to Next-Gen converts.

The thing is, you very rarely see players in real-life sprint at full speed with the ball, it's a very technical skill that only those with extremely quick feet, pace and balance can master. That's why in PES, bar tracking whilst defending, the sprint dribbling is best left to those with the relevant attributes and Player Cards.
 
hi
I just have one problem. How do you do the Long Range Drive shot now? In PES 2012 you pressed LB(L1) When the power bar was on and only some players could do this like Rooney, Villa, Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar etc. I'v been trying to do it with Rooney who has it but yet he just chips the ball.
???????????????
 
I think I'm definitely gonna remove the patch once the data pack 2 arrives on 360 on Monday. In 50+ matches prior to the patch I never came away from any defeat or draw feeling like I'd been cheated out of it by unstoppable AI mechanics. Since the patch, the majority of goals I concede, I feel I can do little about them.

I had an appalling run of matches today, so I also need a bit of a break from it I think. I think I had five straight matches where I conceded an unstoppable goal seconds after scoring myself. One match, I went behind to an early goal, spent 75 minutes battering away at the opposition in an incredibly one sided match, finally forced home an equaliser, then within 20 seconds of the restart the CPU looped in a deep cross and the guy just outjumped my CB and powered a header home. And I lose the game 2-1 despite having something like 15 shots to their 2.

Last match I played, as Spurs v Atalanta, all the CPU did was sit back with ten men behind the ball, and rake 50 yard through balls that I frankly had no time to try and counteract. I can deal with through balls if I'm backing off from the ball carrier in my half, but not when they just pump the ball from so deep that by the time the screen scrolls from left to right, the AI has made my CB go walkabout and boom, the CPU is through on goal.

Anyways, I hit the post twice, had three easy headers with a gaping, open net in front of me and all three times the attacker I was controlling inexplicably nodded his head and completely missed the ball. I had 23 shots to 3 and ended up losing 3-1 to to long through-passes, and the other from a 35 yard direct free-kick.

Never saw that kind of shit pre-patch. I lost a good amount of matches pre-patch and not one of them left me feeling cheated. Most of the matches I felt I deserved to lose. For whatever reason, that seems to have disappeared since the patch. The CPU doesn't feel as error prone or human as it did, like they've tried to make it difficult and made it a tiny bit more like PES2012.

Everything I say about the game still stands, I think it's the best football game ever, and the pace of the game can be managed as the discussion went earlier on about sprinting etc, but the patch has, for me, introduced a definite element of robotic AI precision when it decides it's time to score a goal. And that ain't pretty.
 
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