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eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

Ameppe

International
23 December 2007
SSC Napoli
Here is a clip showing that manual shoot r2 Finesse/curling shot is still broken (despite being noted as fixed in latest patch notes). Here I show r2 finesse with full manual shoot (used first) vs. basic (used 2nd):

Yeah in that video using full manual means the arrow shows the exact expected ball trajectory, yet the final direction of the shot is way off.
Don't forget to report them this on twitter.


I think this is one of the best PES pages on twitter, those guys made a 100+ page with suggestions, Adam saw and liked it, I know he's not reliable but AT LEAST looks like they are aware of what the community wants.
It's heartwarwing but still sad at the same time how community still cares so much for Pes. Yet, look at the way Konami treats its own game. Community still is passionate, Konami lost his passion for developing a great enjoyable Pes since years.
 

Antoine

League 2
28 September 2016
I’m not feeling DP3 at all. Game is faster now, even less fouls than usual too.

I don’t know how anyone can play this so much, it’s just not exciting at all - there’s nothing to do.
Agree. Its boring. Also the CPU is now overly fussy in attack. There were times in my matches where the cpu could swing in across and instead the unnecessarily passed it back and around the box. Konami just cant get things right. I still maintain the closest they got was vanilla out of the box. All they needed was for a less passive cpu and they were on their way. They've just messed it up completely.
 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
I’m not feeling DP3 at all. Game is faster now, even less fouls than usual too.

I don’t know how anyone can play this so much, it’s just not exciting at all - there’s nothing to do.
I’m sorry you can’t feel it but changes are noticeable (to me at least).
I bet I put more hours into 2020 than 2017 by now. Just can’t stop playing. :)
As is said, some foul situations get handled a little bit differently now and I like that. Feeling is: I’m having more fouls, even more correct fouls given (it suits the circumstance).
Just last night vs. Real or Bremen I had around 7. one other game gave me 6 AI fouls in first half alone. There are some matches with 0 or just 1 AI foul... but these are super rare when I play.
And yes, i took screeners for you guys all the time. ;)
Edit: or you check the latest 3 videos on my channel.
And in between these fouls given by the ref, there are situations were advantage was played a couple of times.

But yes, It could all be better! :)
 
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philla

League 1
24 November 2014
I don't think the game speed changed. By the way, i wonder if the different settings (0,-1 etc.) are predefined values or always relative to changes at the 0 standard.

All "changes" in game speed throughout the patches are down to changed AI behaviour instead of changing core values, as far as i can say.
 

hitmanuk

International
23 October 2002
uk
I don't think the game speed changed. By the way, i wonder if the different settings (0,-1 etc.) are predefined values or always relative to changes at the 0 standard.

All "changes" in game speed throughout the patches are down to changed AI behaviour instead of changing core values, as far as i can say.
I was using klashman tactics.. Obviously they are great but i think they were creating a lot of space and that end to end feeling. Back to normal and its slower, tighter and fouls have increased a bit
 

hitmanuk

International
23 October 2002
uk
I was spurs against Watford in league, just picked two random teams to test. Superstar, full manual. To be fair Watford played as expected sat back and scored on counter.. Beat me 2 nil
 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
I was spurs against Watford in league, just picked two random teams to test. Superstar, full manual. To be fair Watford played as expected sat back and scored on counter.. Beat me 2 nil
Alright.
So what I did (to save time) is, I went into exhibition mode and enabled the live update. So I played the match with default formations by Konami. To my surprise the match was faster and more direct. Formation shape was fine so far (but lets leave that aside for a minute).
But because I played 1 single match before that in myclub (vs. com), what I usually do like only 10 times a year, i had the direct comparison. And then a thought hit me.
It’s not the online code I can’t stand vs. offline wich i prefer for years. It’s the “live update code”!
Really. I’m playing an offline match but with the live formations enabled by Konami and it feels like online.
I usually play as much with the live update enabled as I play online.
I then started that match over again and disabled live update (via R3) and it played slower and how I like it.
could be down to tactics or kits (we had that, but I don't believe it) as well. ill try this again when I set up my PES completely fresh for the next option file.
then I can play with live update enabled rosters (and Konami formations, like now) vs. disabled live update roster (konami formations, not klashman's)!
I did the multiple quick switch (entering the game, play 10 ingame minutes then hit select teams, disable/enable live update, quick X pressing and you are back in the match). Did that 6 times in a row.
The difference is there. Try sprinting with Aurier and then turn 180 degree the opposite direction while double pressing sprint button (to do it faster/on the spot)! The speed difference is noticeable and clear to the eye!!

I never ever thought of that before. Offline was offline and online was online.

Edit: yeah, @Chuny
im enjoying it as well!! Big time!!

Edit2: i could think of this being a problem in discussions before. Both players play offline. One has the live update enabled and the other one disabled. One is saying this game is fast and direct and the other one says it’s slow and unresponsive! Maybe it’s due to the “live update code”.
Sherlock out! ;)
 
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tosser

League 2
10 June 2018
The AI passing around the backline is even worse now that tackles/interceptions have been nerfed. I spend half the match sitting admiring the AI team doing fuck all or playing down the clock when they're losing.

Shielding button is needed more than ever now that it's become the AI 's signature move. Contextual shielding is weak, unreliable and no match for how the AI does it. It's like their arses are made of steel or something.
 

Ameppe

International
23 December 2007
SSC Napoli
I'm enjoying PES 2020. And that's all I'm going to say about it.
While i'm enjoying it too, don't you feel they could do so much more? I do. I really think they are putting the least amount of effort to make it a quite enjoyable game, but if they wanted they could make it so much better, they could improve it so much. At one point, simply having an enjoyable game is not enough, not after what i feel is a console generation (Pes 2015-2020) without real improvements to any part of the game.

Master League while a bit better is still 90% the same shallow mode it has always been since Pes 2014, online is always plagued by lag, online modes are even less now (they removed community mode, they removed competitions outside Myclub mode) and Myclub mode is the same, only with much more pay to win compared to Pes 2015 Myclub. No real improvements to edit mode either, it's shocking to me that Pes 2020 edit mode is still less complex than it was in Pes 2013 where you could edit and create your own stadium.

All things considered, the only real improvements have been graphics and animations. It's cool that they improved those but it's all superficial stuff, something that you never care about after playing more than a couple of days.

I expect HUGE improvements coming from next gen football games and not the tiny incremental updates we have seen going from Ps3 gen to Ps4 gen.
 

aussiepesfan

Premiership
17 April 2002
All things considered, the only real improvements have been graphics and animations. It's cool that they improved those but it's all superficial stuff, something that you never care about after playing more than a couple of days.
Sorry, but i think youre way off. This version has seen the most improvements, in the most areas, in between any version. I cannot believe you cannot see this.. whoa...
 

MKC

Conference
16 May 2019
Curitiba, Brazil
Coritiba F.C.

I think this is one of the best PES pages on twitter, those guys made a 100+ page with suggestions, Adam saw and liked it, I know he's not reliable but AT LEAST looks like they are aware of what the community wants.
One of the points they brought up in those 100+ pages is mix'n'matching kits. I've always heard that it's a licensing issue, but that never made sense to me, the teams themselves do it in real life, because there are times where it's necessary, why can't their digital counterparts do it too? If the problem is the licensing, Konami could simply make it so all of the unlicensed teams can mix'n'match kits, that way, even though not all teams would be able to do it, a lot of them would, with and Option File it would be a dream. Another argument i hear is that the kits' files are just one thing, the shirt, shorts and socks aren't separate, well, if that's the case, they should just change it, especially if they do end up moving to a new engine, then they'll have absolutely no excuse not to change it.
 

Ameppe

International
23 December 2007
SSC Napoli
Sorry, but i think youre way off. This version has seen the most improvements, in the most areas, in between any version. I cannot believe you cannot see this.. whoa...
What do you think has been improved so much? I'm considering what i expect from a 2020 football game and both Pes and Fifa have nothing that really excite me about them.
 

hitmanuk

International
23 October 2002
uk
Will give that a try tonight!
What teams did you use?
What do you think has been improved so much? I'm considering what i expect from a 2020 football game and both Pes and Fifa have nothing that really excite me about them.
Pes has improved a lot from 2019 which was terrible in my opinion. Physicality, fouls, better ball mechanics, better AI attacking and defending, AI mistakes, pretty good individualit. Sure the game modes and atmosphere can be improved drastically. But why ask other people what they think if the game doesn't excite you. Surely their opinion is irrelevant
 

Ameppe

International
23 December 2007
SSC Napoli
Pes has improved a lot from 2019 which was terrible in my opinion. Physicality, fouls, better ball mechanics, better AI attacking and defending, AI mistakes, pretty good individualit. Sure the game modes and atmosphere can be improved drastically. But why ask other people what they think if the game doesn't excite you. Surely their opinion is irrelevant
Just curious, maybe i'm the one being unfair towards the game.

About Pes 2019 vs Pes 2020, yeah they improved a lot compared to last year, but the years before with Pes 2019 and Pes 2018 they really made lots of steps backwards. To me, this gen has been like this: some promising steps immediately followed by big disappointments. There is no steady improvement like the one from Pes 2008 to Pes 2013.
 

Chuny

GFX MOD
Staff
11 December 2007
Buenos Aires, Argentina
While i'm enjoying it too, don't you feel they could do so much more? I do. I really think they are putting the least amount of effort to make it a quite enjoyable game, but if they wanted they could make it so much better, they could improve it so much. At one point, simply having an enjoyable game is not enough, not after what i feel is a console generation (Pes 2015-2020) without real improvements to any part of the game.

Master League while a bit better is still 90% the same shallow mode it has always been since Pes 2014, online is always plagued by lag, online modes are even less now (they removed community mode, they removed competitions outside Myclub mode) and Myclub mode is the same, only with much more pay to win compared to Pes 2015 Myclub. No real improvements to edit mode either, it's shocking to me that Pes 2020 edit mode is still less complex than it was in Pes 2013 where you could edit and create your own stadium.

All things considered, the only real improvements have been graphics and animations. It's cool that they improved those but it's all superficial stuff, something that you never care about after playing more than a couple of days.

I expect HUGE improvements coming from next gen football games and not the tiny incremental updates we have seen going from Ps3 gen to Ps4 gen.
I could flip it and ask you: Don't you feel they've pushed it to the limit and stretched it as much as they could?...
 

Ameppe

International
23 December 2007
SSC Napoli
I could flip it and ask you: Don't you feel they've pushed it to the limit and stretched it as much as they could?...
Absolutely no. In 2020 they could have done so much more already with the power Ps4 and Xbox One have. Everything we have in Pes now has always been in past Pes games or in same cases it's even less than what we had during the past with consoles that were much less powerful.

I only agree they did the best (technically talking about animations and graphics) they could do with Fox Engine applied to Pes but the same Fox Engine limited them in so many ways. And that's Konami's own fault for using an engine created for action games instead of using one specifically developed for football games.
 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
Pes has improved a lot from 2019 which was terrible in my opinion. Physicality, fouls, better ball mechanics, better AI attacking and defending, AI mistakes, pretty good individualit. Sure the game modes and atmosphere can be improved drastically. But why ask other people what they think if the game doesn't excite you. Surely their opinion is irrelevant
Yes. Did not play as much 2019 and went back to playing 2017 last season. 2018 I liked more than 2019. 2020 kicks 2017 from the PS4 thrown (2017 is still a good game imo).

As I said before. Nearly anyone is talking about the stuff that we used to hate and got fixed/polished. It’s gets lost and taken for granted. I’m thankful for that.
Wish we all had more focus on that as well as on the flaws. But the discussion is not even, but it should/could be by now, imo.
There is more good these days than bad.
We had years were it was the other way around. ;)
 
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aussiepesfan

Premiership
17 April 2002
All things considered, the only real improvements have been graphics and animations.
Really??? Comments like this are way off. Ok.. so whats improved between pes2020 vs last addition including the ones just before it (lets say pes2016-19).
Besides Animations (smoothness, transitions, and increased number of variation) and Graphics (player models, short size, stadiums, turf texture, lighting etc etc etc), there has also been huge improvement over ball physics (one of the most important things in a footy game), physicality, player weight/ball weight, player response (when in control), gamespeed and speed of game, fouls, variation in shooting including far more errors.. and different types of errors (easier to blast over bar or misskick), cpu ai attacking variation, p1 ai player runs off the ball.. and reactions when losing ball, ai mistakes including misskicks, misspassess, and bad touches (for both p1 and cpu). Some other big ones.. no more catch up bug.. or drastically reduced. Fast players are fkn fast!!!! and can wiz past other players. Player ID has improved.. individual players now make more of a difference. Um.. what else... Nah.. not a huge improvement.... GTFOOH!!!!!
 

Chuny

GFX MOD
Staff
11 December 2007
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Absolutely no. In 2020 they could have done so much more already with the power Ps4 and Xbox One have. Everything we have in Pes now has always been in past Pes games or in same cases it's even less than what we had during the past with consoles that were much less powerful.

I only agree they did the best (technically talking about animations and graphics) they could do with Fox Engine applied to Pes but the same Fox Engine limited them in so many ways. And that's Konami's own fault for using an engine created for action games instead of using one specifically developed for football games.
I don't know mate.
I think the fluidity and smooth transitions in the animations have never been this good in PES before. Ball phyisics too.
We all have our own little things we would have loved to see in this version that either haven't been implemented or they haven't been able to tweak them any better. For sure. But I think this is as far as they can get with the current engine, in the current generation. That's just my opinion, of course and I don't own the truth. It's just a feeling.
 

Ameobinho

Conference
10 August 2018
Really??? Comments like this are way off. Ok.. so whats improved between pes2020 vs last addition including the ones just before it (lets say pes2016-19).
Besides Animations (smoothness, transitions, and increased number of variation) and Graphics (player models, short size, stadiums, turf texture, lighting etc etc etc), there has also been huge improvement over ball physics (one of the most important things in a footy game), physicality, player weight/ball weight, player response (when in control), gamespeed and speed of game, fouls, variation in shooting including far more errors.. and different types of errors (easier to blast over bar or misskick), cpu ai attacking variation, p1 ai player runs off the ball.. and reactions when losing ball, ai mistakes including misskicks, misspassess, and bad touches (for both p1 and cpu). Some other big ones.. no more catch up bug.. or drastically reduced. Fast players are fkn fast!!!! and can wiz past other players. Player ID has improved.. individual players now make more of a difference. Um.. what else... Nah.. not a huge improvement.... GTFOOH!!!!!

LOL

Fouls are still broken
Catch up bug still exists
Scripting is still there
AI plays the same way (Pass to a player on top of the area, He turns and shoots)
deep defensive line still an issue and AI keeps backing up and giving you space to shoot
Keepers stuck to their lines
You rarely win a penalty/ No injuries and fatigue effect in master league
Players still ignore the ball

It'll be difficult for people like you to convince us of how great the game is, Unless you give credit to the community for trying to fix Konami's crap year after year. Our guys spend weeks and weeks trying to fix tactics/dt files and EXEs to make it at least playable and they're still struggling.

Stick to posting and hyping up the addition of new faces and stadiums that get removed in the next data update or the next sorry iteration of the game for no reason :D
 
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Chris Davies

Chief PESsimist
Staff
14 May 2003
Tranmere Rovers
Don't you feel they've pushed it to the limit and stretched it as much as they could?
There's a 100 page suggestions document doing the rounds on Twitter. Not 100 ideas, 100 pages.

The second that you ask "haven't they done everything they can?" then your expectations have hit rock bottom, and Konami have got you exactly where they want you. Why make any more effort?

We still have scripting (or whatever you want to call it), because it's needed, because their game framework (that's had the same basic design for years in terms of input resolution and artificial intelligence) can't ensure the realistic result by "playing fair" .

It's still the case that, on any difficulty, I can beat the best teams in the world but regularly get beat by the team at the bottom of the league, who play perfect tiki-taka because of the boosts they get.

The ball is rarely truly free and some deflections are laughable, every contact is perfect, every shot trajectory is within the same tiny amount of variance, their idea of "mishits" is hilarious. A mishit shot just means missing the target by a couple of yards. (But I truly believe they don't want to represent anything but perfect football, which is ironic considering it's supposed to be the #1 choice for realism / simulation.)

I find it crazy to acknowledge all of that and then go "but the rest of it is pretty good and 'the other game' is rubbish so 10/10". (Which some reviewers do every damn year!)

How many times do you read posts by guys like @rockstrongo where they've been and played the 2K basketball games for a bit, came back to PES and say "how the hell do I start playing this again when it's so empty"? And, from a gameplay point of view, stiff and restricted. (Just my opinion.)

If you mean "they've done everything they can with this engine", then - in my opinion, and that's all it is (because people love old-school PES and don't want anything new) - they should have killed off this horribly restricted engine at the beginning of the PS4 generation.

If you mean "they've done everything they can" full-stop then, I could probably make a 1,000 page document (never mind 100) listing all the things that are missing. Most of which would be from Football Manager (which proves it can all be done - if you want to do it).
 

Chuny

GFX MOD
Staff
11 December 2007
Buenos Aires, Argentina
I agree and disagree at the same time.
I agree with the part that maybe that's what they want us to think. I don't know.
I disagree with your views on ball physics, mishits, etc. Obviously my opinion is biased and not entirely honest since I'm playing a modded version of the game that feels almost exactly like the demo, and we all know that version had many more misplaced passes and shots and first touch error by both, the AI and human player.

And regarding the 100 page suggestions document, all I can say is that some of them are too "reachy" (?) and they will never happen. Not even in the other game.

I'm happy to admit that this game is the best PES I've played. Nostalgia aside, I think it can beat and be beaten by other version of the game if we were to pick it apart and compare feature VS feature and gameplay elements VS gameplay elements. But still come up on top.

Like, if we compare PES 2013 Dribbling mechanics and feeling VS PES 2020's, I think PES 2013 wins that round. But if we compare Animations realism and transitions, then PES 2020 wins.
If we compare PES 5/6 Players Individuality VS PES 2020's, then I think the old PES' were slightly better (every point in player's states seemed to matter much more and make a bigger difference) but if we compared ball physics, I think PES 2020 wins.
Etc.

All in all, and like in most things, it comes down to personal visions and tastes. I've seen dozens of people on Twitter saying this is the worst PES ever and they will never buy PES again. But I've also seen so many saying this is the best PES ever.
 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
@Chris Davies
We are talking on so many different levels/standpoints we come from. It’s crazy. :)

Had one match last night on PA1 and basic shooting. :LOL: sure it’s rigid as F! I would complain about ball freedom as well.
It is night and day. I could not place the ball where I wanted and it stood out. How limited this game can be.
And again I had to think of racing games... ;) remembered how I drove with auto transmission and was moaning about my lap times. Changed that years ago to manual shifting and what can I say... free as a bird. Better lap times. More realism. More fun for me. But that’s just me. :)
 
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Ameppe

International
23 December 2007
SSC Napoli
Really??? Comments like this are way off. Ok.. so whats improved between pes2020 vs last addition including the ones just before it (lets say pes2016-19).
Besides Animations (smoothness, transitions, and increased number of variation) and Graphics (player models, short size, stadiums, turf texture, lighting etc etc etc), there has also been huge improvement over ball physics (one of the most important things in a footy game), physicality, player weight/ball weight, player response (when in control), gamespeed and speed of game, fouls, variation in shooting including far more errors.. and different types of errors (easier to blast over bar or misskick), cpu ai attacking variation, p1 ai player runs off the ball.. and reactions when losing ball, ai mistakes including misskicks, misspassess, and bad touches (for both p1 and cpu). Some other big ones.. no more catch up bug.. or drastically reduced. Fast players are fkn fast!!!! and can wiz past other players. Player ID has improved.. individual players now make more of a difference. Um.. what else... Nah.. not a huge improvement.... GTFOOH!!!!!
Anything really new though?
AI has the same level of offensive plays of Pes 5, that is a 15 years old game, it's definitely not a good thing.
All the rest (weight, inertia, player id) we already had in Pes 5 and 6. Shooting variation is far from what we had in Ps2 games, in this case they even managed to go backwards and we still aren't even at Pes 3 levels yet. Too little variation even compared to 20 years old games.
Let's not even talk about fouls, because they are terrible, way worse than they were on Ps2 Pes games. Also, we are completely missing referees personalities. I mean, in Ps2 Pes games even referees had their own id, remember the dreaded Kazuki Ito? Look at the state of referees in Pes 15 years later, it's quite shocking they managed to ruin them so much.

Pes has greatly improved giving a lot more freedom on the ball, but it still feels so limited compared to what i expect from a 2020 game,especially when defending.
Defending in Pes 2020 is not responsive enough and i really feel i had much more control of my defenders in Ps3 and Ps2 Pes games. Another element where Pes not only hasn't substantially improved, but it's actually regressed during Ps4 gen.
 

Ameppe

International
23 December 2007
SSC Napoli
I agree and disagree at the same time.
I agree with the part that maybe that's what they want us to think. I don't know.
I disagree with your views on ball physics, mishits, etc. Obviously my opinion is biased and not entirely honest since I'm playing a modded version of the game that feels almost exactly like the demo, and we all know that version had many more misplaced passes and shots and first touch error by both, the AI and human player.

And regarding the 100 page suggestions document, all I can say is that some of them are too "reachy" (?) and they will never happen. Not even in the other game.

I'm happy to admit that this game is the best PES I've played. Nostalgia aside, I think it can beat and be beaten by other version of the game if we were to pick it apart and compare feature VS feature and gameplay elements VS gameplay elements. But still come up on top.

Like, if we compare PES 2013 Dribbling mechanics and feeling VS PES 2020's, I think PES 2013 wins that round. But if we compare Animations realism and transitions, then PES 2020 wins.
If we compare PES 5/6 Players Individuality VS PES 2020's, then I think the old PES' were slightly better (every point in player's states seemed to matter much more and make a bigger difference) but if we compared ball physics, I think PES 2020 wins.
Etc.

All in all, and like in most things, it comes down to personal visions and tastes. I've seen dozens of people on Twitter saying this is the worst PES ever and they will never buy PES again. But I've also seen so many saying this is the best PES ever.
But that's the point though. The fact that even nostalgia aside we can see Ps2 games had several things that were better developed compared to Pes 2020 it's crazy to me and really shows how little Pes has improved over the last 15 years. We should be at a point where Ps2 games should have been completely outclassed in every single element.
Pes 2020 could very well be the best Pes ever but that's nothing impressive because it's just slightly better than a game developed 15 years ago.
 

Ameobinho

Conference
10 August 2018
The replay cam on pes 5 was better than nowadays where it’s so limited, Can’t blame the user on that.

Pathetic from Konami tbh
 

PRO_TOO

Team Heffernan
25 May 2003
Rego Park, Germany
Team Heffernan
The replay cam on pes 5 was better than nowadays where it’s so limited, Can’t blame the user on that.

Pathetic from Konami tbh
When I watch PES5 and PES6 videos today... and I liked the gameplay back then because it was the best we could get, the speed is so off (5 was a bit slower than 6 right?!). The animation speed is off for my standards today.
I did not care back then as I was much younger I guess.
So the flow of the game, what I see most of the time while playing, is much better today, imo.
And to me, the thing that is ever present in a game while playing, has a huge value.
It’s like a super super racing game with all features you could dream of but the frame rate is not stable (or sub 30 (I do prefer 60))... then I’m put off by this big time!
 
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