eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

aussiepesfan said:
but to say weight, inertia, player id etc were just as good.. come on man.. that's crazy talk.
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I can replay Pes 5 right now and still see the inertia and players feeling different. In Ps2 games there already were players feeling different, some players being very agile and very quick on the ball, some players being slow while turning and controlling the ball.

Player ID is a marketing word for individuality. And Pes has had individuality since Ps1 games really, but it was greatly improved with Ps2 games. Since Ps3 games they just added more motions to the players to make them feel more similar to the real life counterparts but nothing more.

What i expect from a football game in 2020 and for the future games is every player having his own tactics movements ingame, his own personality, his own approach to the match. You see those players that are easily discouraged when they lose and others that fight till the very end of the match pressing like crazy. In Pes 2020 there are some player tracts that should reflect that, but ingame they aren't noticeable at all.

What you see as huge improvements to me are very little improvements. I would be happy with little improvements yearly, but if you look at the time they took to have these little improvements ingame, 15 years just to add a bit more realistic looking and moving players, i feel like they are way too slow to improve.

I'm impatient, because like i already said, i honestly recently didn't have one single time where i thought to myself: "ok, this thing here they added is gamechanging, it's awesome".

I woud admit that the really cool addition they tried to implement (but it's still half complete) is the real time shadows and lighting, and the real time passing of time. That feels like something that will add lots of atmosphere and realism to the match, and i expect it to be fully developed with next gen versions. But gameplay wise, i find nothing about that. The only nice thing they added is off the ball control,being able to control and move other players during set pieces but that's it.

Going back to shooting system for example, don't you think it's crazy that so many years after Pes 5 we still have a shooting system that has so little variation, with a console that is 100 times more powerful than Ps2? Where are the scuffed shots, the shots going way off the target? Why is the interaction between foot and ball so limited in Pes even compared to Fifa while shooting? Why there still are some shots that seem like having a predetermined trajectory not even a bit influenced by the way the player approaches and makes contact with the ball?

These are just a fraction of realism i would have expected coming in Pes in 2020 and i really hope they will improve on that in the future because shooting right now is so arcade in Pes, it has very little simulative about it.
 
Ameppe said:
I can replay Pes 5 right now and still see the inertia and players feeling different. In Ps2 games there already were players feeling different, some players being very agile and very quick on the ball, some players being slow while turning and controlling the ball.

Player ID is a marketing word for individuality. And Pes has had individuality since Ps1 games really, but it was greatly improved with Ps2 games. Since Ps3 games they just added more motions to the players to make them feel more similar to the real life counterparts but nothing more.

What i expect from a football game in 2020 and for the future games is every player having his own tactics movements ingame, his own personality, his own approach to the match. You see those players that are easily discouraged when they lose and others that fight till the very end of the match pressing like crazy. In Pes 2020 there are some player tracts that should reflect that, but ingame they aren't noticeable at all.

What you see as huge improvements to me are very little improvements. I would be happy with little improvements yearly, but if you look at the time they took to have these little improvements ingame, 15 years just to add a bit more realistic looking and moving players, i feel like they are way too slow to improve.

I'm impatient, because like i already said, i honestly recently didn't have one single time where i thought to myself: "ok, this thing here they added is gamechanging, it's awesome".

I woud admit that the really cool addition they tried to implement (but it's still half complete) is the real time shadows and lighting, and the real time passing of time. That feels like something that will add lots of atmosphere and realism to the match, and i expect it to be fully developed with next gen versions. But gameplay wise, i find nothing about that. The only nice thing they added is off the ball control,being able to control and move other players during set pieces but that's it.

Going back to shooting system for example, don't you think it's crazy that so many years after Pes 5 we still have a shooting system that has so little variation, with a console that is 100 times more powerful than Ps2? Where are the scuffed shots, the shots going way off the target? Why is the interaction between foot and ball so limited in Pes even compared to Fifa while shooting? Why there still are some shots that seem like having a predetermined trajectory not even a bit influenced by the way the player approaches and makes contact with the ball?

These are just a fraction of realism i would have expected coming in Pes in 2020 and i really hope they will improve on that in the future because shooting right now is so arcade in Pes, it has very little simulative about it.
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I haven´t played PES 5 since PES 6 came out. I just remember that I loved it.....BACK THEN.

I´m agreeing to everything here, even I am enjoying PES 2020.
All the aspects you named, putting to PES 2020....it´s slightly there, but not enough.
Player ID...I can see it...but it should be more. Same to form and stats. If there´s something going on on the pitch, which makes me wonder why a player reacted in a specific way, I wanna pause and check and see "ah...he´s having a bad form today...okay, makes sense..." for example.
It´s already there, but you can´t comprehend everytime. Too many times things don´t make sense....I don´t know how to describe it better.

Same about shooting. Trajectory could be much better. It´s there but just not enough.

About impatience: I don´t think that it´s really impatience. It´s just that KONAMI is very very slow. Every year they make too little steps.
There are so many little things - also stuff we had before already - that get added year after year and it´s just too slow.
 
chiefrocka4real said:
Hell no! Sorry, but no!

That categorization of people being this and that cause they like it or hate it, is just.......yuck!!!

I like this game cause I know it´s better than the crap we´ve had the past few years, as you say.
Yeah...it´s better than what we had until now.
But being told, I´m not good for the game in terms of improvements??
Come on, man.

I take the game for what it is and enjoy the positives it brings. Annnnnnd....I´m totally aware of the things that need improvement.

I could criticise so many things in it and could go on and on, the list is endless. But none of these faults is a gamebreaker to me, either it is features or bugs that personally don´t mean much to me, or I´m playing with specific settings or mods, that weaken those flaws (full manual, modified exe etc.).
But I, and many other people on here being positive about this game, are certainly able to criticise the game thoroughly to push improvements.

I might not be on the same positive level as PRO_TOO, but even in his posts, I understand that he has room for critics, but keeps enjoying the positives it brings.

Please don´t categorize :) .
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well, i enjoy the game too yet i only play exhibition mode - i tried a little ML and I did not have as much fun so gave up on it and i think it needs upgrades.

doesn't mean either of us are wrong. like poch and mourinho - both are good for the game but you can either stick with poch and repeat what you already achieved or you go try and better what you have and go with mourinho.

this year we've finally got the stadium (i.e pes 2020 gameplay) - now we need to bring in mourinho (i.e. ML/MC upgrades).

criticisms and praise have to be constructive so that we're not playing shoddy ML/MC experiences for the next 10 years.
 
All they have to do is...

sort the fouls
make ML less of a grind due to scripts
make the passing a bit more free but not too free as to show attributes ect
make the teams play more to their real life selves
more focus on tactics
but for me... most importantly...
BRING BACK THE OLD STATS such as:

Shot technique
pass accuracy and speed ect ect..

Those could be game changers.
 
Alx1234 said:
I think the guys who like pes a lot, like it cos they know its better than the crap we've had the past few years

the guys who don't like it haven't been exposed as much to that crap so they still have higher expectations.


the problem is the first category folks are not necessarily good for the game in terms of getting improvements done.

PES 2020 could be sublime but at the mo its satisfactory-to-good and if community is not united (like we were about demo differences to 1.01 release) then we won't see any meaningful improvements.

for me, i think the core message to konami is : give us meaningful non-scripted enjoyable ML experiences and accurate player ID. i am avoiding touching that mode until i'm satisfied i won't be wasting time playing it.
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Best football game we have had in the last 13 years, Problem is people are expecting perfection with Konami and that's never going to happen and for that reason alone those expecting perfection will always want to snipe at those that do like the game hence the community will never be united.

Some people need to take a reality check and realise where Konami were just 4 or 5 years ago to where they are now. They are making strides forwards every single year but this year is the one that they took big strides forward and managed to get back some old school ISS/PES fans at last. If they stay on this path who knows maybe more and more will come back which can only be good for the series.

People just need to tone down their expectations and rather than constant looking for flaws look for the good in the game which their is an extremely lot of and if not possible to tone down expectations we have 2 other options which are stop playing it or play the other football title.
 
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just played spurs bayern. - exh mode cracking game. a pen by Kane then Lewa equalised, then last 10mins Kane scores from a Rose cross and in the 90th Son is one-on-one to smash it in from outside the box.

now i'm looking forward to tonights match.

The fact that this game is so fun on what is actual a small portion of the available game modes is a testament to the game.

If they got rid of TS on ML (so ML played like Exh) and had more stats tracking over the seasons ... PES would have no competition because it would be the best.
 
pes.player88 said:
All they have to do is...

sort the fouls
make ML less of a grind due to scripts
make the passing a bit more free but not too free as to show attributes ect
make the teams play more to their real life selves
more focus on tactics
but for me... most importantly...
BRING BACK THE OLD STATS such as:

Shot technique
pass accuracy and speed ect ect..

Those could be game changers.
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Agreed with the old stats, they just made more sense. You had shot accuracy, shot power and shot technique, which really made shooting stand out. You knew Ibra could pull out some spectacular strikes and all different types, but when 1vs1 someone like Owen was deadly with their accuracy.

There is simply now feeling in shooting and it's been like this for years.
 
Alx1234 said:
just played spurs bayern. - exh mode cracking game. a pen by Kane then Lewa equalised, then last 10mins Kane scores from a Rose cross and in the 90th Son is one-on-one to smash it in from outside the box.

now i'm looking forward to tonights match.

The fact that this game is so fun on what is actual a small portion of the available game modes is a testament to the game.

If they got rid of TS on ML (so ML played like Exh) and had more stats tracking over the seasons ... PES would have no competition because it would be the best.
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Aaaahhh... I see you are playing your own matchday features as well! :APPLAUD:
Can’t wait to start tonight’s CL session with Bayern my self.
I usually check out the latest formation and adjust the team accordingly.

Another thing: in reference to PES, please check out the new AO Tennis dev diary video here: https://evo-web.co.uk/threads/ao-tennis-2.81202/post-3477084 ...to get an idea, of how a press conference or a reputation feature in a video game can look like.

And spread the word that there is a couple of more topics to discuss on this forum! :D I’ve still not seen them all myself... :WOOT:
 
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pes.player88 said:
All they have to do is...

sort the fouls
make ML less of a grind due to scripts
make the passing a bit more free but not too free as to show attributes ect
make the teams play more to their real life selves
more focus on tactics
but for me... most importantly...
BRING BACK THE OLD STATS such as:

Shot technique
pass accuracy and speed ect ect..

Those could be game changers.
Click to expand...

I think there is nothing gamechanging about fixing these things that were broken during all these years. It's time to push football games to the next level, just fixing and bringing things back is not enough anymore in my opinion.
 
I was thinking about the AI and how it's change from 2017, the game I still play, to 2020.

I can't help but feel like the combination of the improvements/tweaks to gameplay overall and prioritization of online and competitive have led to an AI that cannot really hold up in offline play.

If they were to prioritize online and competitive (human v human), then it would make sense for them to tone down AI effectiveness in order to maximize the human player's control of the outcome of the match. Because AI = rng and rng is bad in any kind of multiplayer experience.

I think to myself how is it that the AI feels so much worse to play with now than it does in PES 2017. It would make sense that they'd tailor gameplay for multiplayer because that's their focus now. And AI behavior is part of the foundation of gameplay. And it's not like they're going to code 2 sets of AI. That would be too costly and time consuming.

Unfortunately it leaves me in a place where I feel like the recent releases just aren't for me.
 
When I played the demo, I fell in-love with this game. I had to buy on the day of release, and did so. I seem to be one of the few who has no real complaints about how the gameplay is now. Referees can do with improvement, giving silly fouls like when I kick the ball & the AI runs into my foot, but they seem like rare fouls now. Maybe there's a subtle difference from the demo, but the overall game still has that aura about it. I found myself playing on Top Player difficulty (in which some of the 'purists' may scoff), but I do so with fully manual passes & shooting, so it balances out. And every time I switch the game on, I have a superb time, even when I get defeated. It is something I can never really say about that "other" game, which I've never played since about May (outside of the brief Closed Beta gameplay for 20, which didn't impress me too much)
 
Ameppe said:
I can replay Pes 5 right now and still see the inertia and players feeling different. In Ps2 games there already were players feeling different, some players being very agile and very quick on the ball, some players being slow while turning and controlling the ball.

Player ID is a marketing word for individuality. And Pes has had individuality since Ps1 games really, but it was greatly improved with Ps2 games. Since Ps3 games they just added more motions to the players to make them feel more similar to the real life counterparts but nothing more.

What i expect from a football game in 2020 and for the future games is every player having his own tactics movements ingame, his own personality, his own approach to the match. You see those players that are easily discouraged when they lose and others that fight till the very end of the match pressing like crazy. In Pes 2020 there are some player tracts that should reflect that, but ingame they aren't noticeable at all.

What you see as huge improvements to me are very little improvements. I would be happy with little improvements yearly, but if you look at the time they took to have these little improvements ingame, 15 years just to add a bit more realistic looking and moving players, i feel like they are way too slow to improve.

I'm impatient, because like i already said, i honestly recently didn't have one single time where i thought to myself: "ok, this thing here they added is gamechanging, it's awesome".

I woud admit that the really cool addition they tried to implement (but it's still half complete) is the real time shadows and lighting, and the real time passing of time. That feels like something that will add lots of atmosphere and realism to the match, and i expect it to be fully developed with next gen versions. But gameplay wise, i find nothing about that. The only nice thing they added is off the ball control,being able to control and move other players during set pieces but that's it.

Going back to shooting system for example, don't you think it's crazy that so many years after Pes 5 we still have a shooting system that has so little variation, with a console that is 100 times more powerful than Ps2? Where are the scuffed shots, the shots going way off the target? Why is the interaction between foot and ball so limited in Pes even compared to Fifa while shooting? Why there still are some shots that seem like having a predetermined trajectory not even a bit influenced by the way the player approaches and makes contact with the ball?

These are just a fraction of realism i would have expected coming in Pes in 2020 and i really hope they will improve on that in the future because shooting right now is so arcade in Pes, it has very little simulative about it.
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No demand. The demand is for online, for licenses, for opening packs. Nobody cares about actual PES gameplay.
 
Miku said:
When I played the demo, I fell in-love with this game. I had to buy on the day of release, and did so. I seem to be one of the few who has no real complaints about how the gameplay is now. Referees can do with improvement, giving silly fouls like when I kick the ball & the AI runs into my foot, but they seem like rare fouls now. Maybe there's a subtle difference from the demo, but the overall game still has that aura about it. I found myself playing on Top Player difficulty (in which some of the 'purists' may scoff), but I do so with fully manual passes & shooting, so it balances out. And every time I switch the game on, I have a superb time, even when I get defeated. It is something I can never really say about that "other" game, which I've never played since about May (outside of the brief Closed Beta gameplay for 20, which didn't impress me too much)
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ive enjoyed every patch for different reason except this last one, its gone too quick for my liking now. ive gone back to v1 again which is annoying as i liked the other patches more than v1
 
hitmanuk said:
ive enjoyed every patch for different reason except this last one, its gone too quick for my liking now. ive gone back to v1 again which is annoying as i liked the other patches more than v1
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I feel like the game can always be improved, and yet Konami seem to always be improving things. Maybe at this stage, with new consoles a year away or so, they are putting all efforts into a new engine. Easy to forget this current engine is 5 years old.
 
Miku said:
I feel like the game can always be improved, and yet Konami seem to always be improving things. Maybe at this stage, with new consoles a year away or so, they are putting all efforts into a new engine. Easy to forget this current engine is 5 years old.
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It's actually 7 years old. Pes 2014 was already developed with Fox Engine.
 
Potential is tremendous on pes.. they sopved the formula of football but they have always promblems at implementation... i choose same teams on full manual legend... 15 min. And i repeatedlt make re-matches .. at least i played 7-8 matches.. everything is same .. all matches are different than each other.. in one cpu plays like garbage and at another plays super humanish.. that handicapping or scripting randomness ruins the game imo.. you never know what to expect.. u may say it is also same in real life .. every match team forms and how they play differs but this is too much for a video game
 
Fullmanualpes said:
Potential is tremendous on pes.. they sopved the formula of football but they have always promblems at implementation... i choose same teams on full manual legend... 15 min. And i repeatedlt make re-matches .. at least i played 7-8 matches.. everything is same .. all matches are different than each other.. in one cpu plays like garbage and at another plays super humanish.. that handicapping or scripting randomness ruins the game imo.. you never know what to expect.. u may say it is also same in real life .. every match team forms and how they play differs but this is too much for a video game
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I agree with your last sentence!
Often I tried to persuade myself like that too
sometimes when I watch real life football match, I was like ' hey messi, just dribble through a few players and score you can do it because of your ability'
'hey mbappe, just sprint and score, no one would catch you up'
then I realized even world class players wouldn't be able to do that every match
so there are some matches they look lost and out of forms
BUT its just too much for video game
and the way konami apply script is not only to increase the enemy ai abilities but also to reduce your whole team players abilities
its just so disgusting and absolutely no joy to play
 
I really can't say i feel the game being dumbed down for the sake of esport entertainment or things like that. Much more i am happy to see the core philosophy of the game is going more towards simulation quality with every release since 2018. In replicating a football game it is so much ahead that it is really frightening, as quality is often made by the market competition.

Asking for gameplay perfection is really not necessary, as there is no game in sight that come close - even if all of us don't see the game at the point we want it to be.
 
I've came to back to PES for different basics that FIFA has ruined trying to make different for no reason, the free kicks the penalties the goalkicks are all just plain dumb over there and the defending online for anyone not new is bare near impossible, God knows how they do it especially in FUT where everyone is so fast and you're used to PES whuch is too easy but maybe I need it that way, back to basics.
 
philla said:
I really can't say i feel the game being dumbed down for the sake of esport entertainment or things like that. Much more i am happy to see the core philosophy of the game is going more towards simulation quality with every release since 2018. In replicating a football game it is so much ahead that it is really frightening, as quality is often made by the market competition.

Asking for gameplay perfection is really not necessary, as there is no game in sight that come close - even if all of us don't see the game at the point we want it to be.
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I haven't noticed PES going towards simulation, last semi attempt was 15 everything has had a very arcadey feel since.
 
Isslander said:
Playing Liverpool in a regular League now. Lot of fun, just had a really hard game against Crystal Palace, they were 2-1 up at 16 minutes so I eventually brought on Salah who I was resting, switched into 3-5-2 and all attack, and at least I got the equalizer.
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Lovely goal.
 
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