eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

[Ameobinho]

When I watch PES5 and PES6 videos today... and I liked the gameplay back then because it was the best we could get, the speed is so off (5 was a bit slower than 6 right?!). The animation speed is off for my standards today.
I did not care back then as I was much younger I guess.
So the flow of the game, what I see most of the time while playing, is much better today, imo.
And to me, the thing that is ever present in a game while playing, has a huge value.
It’s like a super super racing game with all features you could dream of but the frame rate is not stable (or sub 30 (I do prefer 60))... then I’m put off by this big time!

I know you're always excited about hyping up the game at every opportunity and making sure that you let us know how you're so in love with it, But 'm talking about the actual instant replay camera not comparing any gameplay stuff.

You know in fifa/NBA2K/PES5 you can go to replay and move the camera up and down and zoom it in and out?

Why is it in the new PES that the replay cam is always at grass level and very limited?

Is this hard to fix?

 

[Chuny]

But that's the point though. The fact that even nostalgia aside we can see Ps2 games had several things that were better developed compared to Pes 2020 it's crazy to me

You don't think that happens with other games as well?.
FIFA, GTA, COD, BATTLEFIELD, MORTAL KOMBAT, BATMAN....

All of them, no exception, had tons of little elements that have gotten worse over time.
The real question here is: Whether companies do this on purpose or they actually think they're improving the game in every possible way and areas?..

 

[PRO_TOO]

I know you're always excited about hyping up the game at every opportunity and making sure that you let us know how you're so in love with it, But 'm talking about the actual instant replay camera not comparing any gameplay stuff.

You know in fifa/NBA2K/PES5 you can go to replay and move the camera up and down and zoom it in and out?

Why is it in the new PES that the replay cam is always at grass level and very limited?

Is this hard to fix?

Ok. Let’s get that out of the way once for all time!

I’m not hyping the game all the time! I’m very positive, that’s correct, because I like the game. And im not trying to convince someone else. I’m just sharing my joy with you guys. Sometimes I do hint on gameplay aspects I think a user did not see or know of. That’s helpful meant.
Same time I mention the flaws of the game. And we discussed them...
And i wish a lot of stuff to be improved.

Overall, and that’s how I go through life, I like to spread positive vibes (not forgetting the bad stuff). But life and time are precious to me, so I ain’t got time for multiple moaning about the same thing on a regular basis.
Maybe it’s how I see and live my life.
For example: If i like a beer (brand), I’ll say “hm this is tasty” nearly every time I drink it. It’s easy, because it’s good.
If I had another beer (brand) and it did not taste good, I say it once. Maybe twice when asked for my opinion.
But I don’t go through town screaming “this beer tastes bad” every week.

Did you understand what I mean?!

I forgot: yes man!!! We need more camera angles in replay mode!! Fully with you.
I’m a person going into replay mode like 4-10 times a match. I like to watch the beautiful animations in slomo, check out what went wrong (analysis what I can do better) or checking on CPU flaws (to name them here) and get a positive discussion going.
And oh boy, do i miss a decent cam angle that’s not on the ground. But it’s not coming this gen. I’m sadly sure of that. So I move on.

 

[Emroth]

How can someone say that they took Pes as far as they possibly could with this engine is beyond me.

Graphically - maybe. But thats about it.
Unless you are trying to tell me that FOX engine cannot deliver a truly free ball, that would be a separate entity and could deflect and go in any direction, depending on the contact.
Or player reactions to the ball, the way they still have huge problems with awareness, switching and crashing into their own team mates.
Or that referees simply cannot be programmed to react accordingly to the situation on the pitch (collision, tackles, penalty box interventions)
Or that AI cannot be programmed to truly adapt to our play and react to the situation on the pitch. That they have to handicap the user, coz they cant find any other way to bring a proper challenge.

Its 2020 and all of the above are engine related. Things that they were well able to control in PS2 era and now they simply cant find solution.

Like someone said above - if Fox (which I dont believe) cant handle those things - it should had been scrapped at the start.
But it can handle them, cant it? I dont remember any awareness issues, or collision issues, or broken referees in Pes17.

So yeah - they didnt take it as far as they could and they are far from it. They just focused on cosmetics, like graphics and decided to put the rest aside.

The other game might not have the ball physics and animations at that level, but the basics are there. I never have problems with awareness, crashing into my own team mates, referees that dont give obvious fouls (btw. had 3 penalties so far in my first season), or scripting and handicapping my team in favour of COM.

 

[majuh]

And again I had to think of racing games... remembered how I drove with auto transmission and was moaning about my lap times. Changed that years ago to manual shifting and what can I say... free as a bird. Better lap times. More realism. More fun for me. But that’s just me.

Schumacher won a F1 world championship in a car with automatic transmission, just saying... They would still use automatic transmissions if the rules allowed it.

 

[Emroth]

Now, I need to put a disclaimer.
I still think that Pes20 is one of the better Pes games ever released, I really do, so dont take my post as a rant of a hater.
But its very far from a great game, coz it still struggles with basics.

And engine simply cannot be blamed for this. Its lack of focus and under development in favour of online.

Im not even mentioning the main reason why I stopped playing it, which is boredom and shallowness, just trying to focus on engine and the discussion above.

Recently I watched Spoony pizzas review of Data Pack 3, as I really wasnt bothered to check it myself. And I was amazed how terrible the player awareness was in his video. He was talking about dribbling and this and that and the other, while completely ignoring the fact that his players acted like 10 Stevie Wonders. Which made me think - do people just stop noticing those things after a while, coz they think its normal? Do you need to take a longer break from Pes in order to see how bad it is?

Its a solid game of football, or should I say - solid Pes. But its far from the peak they could easily reach if they tried.

 

[Ameobinho]

@PRO_TOO Absolutely love your optimism, It's only a game after all.

Peace

 

[PRO_TOO]

@Emroth
Sure it’s not peak level. One more time off topic and and I’m gone watching CL.
Neither is GTS, but I’m having a lot of fun.
Neither is BFV, but I’m having a lot of fun.
Neither is RDR2, but I’m having a lot of fun.
Neither is ELITE: D, but I’m having a lot of fun.
Neither is Wreckfest, but I having a lot of fun.
Neither is Steep, but I’m having a lot of fun.
That’s my latest games wich i play regularly.

Could be that football triggers more of our passion or something else. But yes, if PES got the basics right as much as the games above do, then it would be better!

So I’m standing in front of the shelve. Choices are: No football game. The other or PES. I know what to do. And if I’m fed up with it to the point it isn’t worth my 60 bucks, I’m not buying anymore.
What can I do when an hour of fun is like 50 cent, by now (roughly estimated with around 120 hours of play time).
I could go to the movies...
na, lets not play the numbers game here.
It’s about our passion for the sport and how we deserve better, videogame wise, IN 2020 (from whatever company)!!!!

 

[Aribo n Ojo]

I was using klashman tactics.. Obviously they are great but i think they were creating a lot of space and that end to end feeling. Back to normal and its slower, tighter and fouls have increased a bit

Yeah i lasted a day with Klashmans tactics tbh, For me it made the game Fifa'ish, Much more end to end and i was getting too many one on ones with the keeper and thats not what i want from PES. I much prefer the slower tighter games having to work a bit more. Also with PES if you manage to get an early goal the CPU opens right up anyway trying to get that equaliser.

 

[gabe.paul.logan]

Ok. The cpu is just plain stupid. I have managed to get sent off a defender but the cpu never subbed a defender in its place, nor placed an already playing player in his spot, which meant the cpu played with 2 defenders for 80 mins.

 

[hitmanuk]

Yeah i lasted a day with Klashmans tactics tbh, For me it made the game Fifa'ish, Much more end to end and i was getting too many one on ones with the keeper and thats not what i want from PES. I much prefer the slower tighter games having to work a bit more. Also with PES if you manage to get an early goal the CPU opens right up anyway trying to get that equaliser.

similar experience, i was also finding my defenders pulled into midfield. I conceded a few goals due to Van Dijk being totally out of position.

 

[...PACMAN...]

I have tried, I had optimism with data pack releases. I even praised the most recent one quite a lot but the fact is I'm bored.

Just played two matches in Pes 18 and it was great. Had a lot of fun and ai attacked in such varied ways. Might just go back to that for a while and wait to see if Konami can get this one back on track.

 

[Emroth]

@Emroth
Sure it’s not peak level. One more time off topic and and I’m gone watching CL.
Neither is GTS, but I’m having a lot of fun.
Neither is BFV, but I’m having a lot of fun.
Neither is RDR2, but I’m having a lot of fun.
Neither is ELITE: D, but I’m having a lot of fun.
Neither is Wreckfest, but I having a lot of fun.
Neither is Steep, but I’m having a lot of fun.
That’s my latest games wich i play regularly.

Could be that football triggers more of our passion or something else. But yes, if PES got the basics right as much as the games above do, then it would be better!

So I’m standing in front of the shelve. Choices are: No football game. The other or PES. I know what to do. And if I’m fed up with it to the point it isn’t worth my 60 bucks, I’m not buying anymore.
What can I do when an hour of fun is like 50 cent, by now (roughly estimated with around 120 hours of play time).
I could go to the movies...
na, lets not play the numbers game here.
It’s about our passion for the sport and how we deserve better, videogame wise, IN 2020 (from whatever company)!!!!

Thats a very weird reply..
This is Pes thread and we are discussing Pes here, not other games.
And Im expressing my opinion about statement made above, that Pes20 is the best of what they could do with Fox engine..

Not sure what other games have to do with any of that.

 

[Alx1234]

I think the guys who like pes a lot, like it cos they know its better than the crap we've had the past few years

the guys who don't like it haven't been exposed as much to that crap so they still have higher expectations.


the problem is the first category folks are not necessarily good for the game in terms of getting improvements done.

PES 2020 could be sublime but at the mo its satisfactory-to-good and if community is not united (like we were about demo differences to 1.01 release) then we won't see any meaningful improvements.

for me, i think the core message to konami is : give us meaningful non-scripted enjoyable ML experiences and accurate player ID. i am avoiding touching that mode until i'm satisfied i won't be wasting time playing it.

 

[Ameobinho]

I think the guys who like pes a lot, like it cos they know its better than the crap we've had the past few years

the guys who don't like it haven't been exposed as much to that crap so they still have higher expectations.


the problem is the first category folks are not necessarily good for the game in terms of getting improvements done.

PES 2020 could be sublime but at the mo its satisfactory-to-good and if community is not united (like we were about demo differences to 1.01 release) then we won't see any meaningful improvements.

for me, i think the core message to konami is : give us meaningful non-scripted enjoyable ML experiences and accurate player ID. i am avoiding touching that mode until i'm satisfied i won't be wasting time playing it.

There are things that we all agree on the need for a fix, Whether we like the game or not, Fundamental stuff like fouls/ML issues and AI improvements

But if you look at how much we can actually do as a community, I think it's difficult if all the stuff we went through and the game is still a joke.

We filled surveys
This year we had our own testers attending events
New facebook page for feedback
The work of Matt10 which keeps getting ignored unfortunately
Adam moved to Tokyo claiming it would help
2 or 3 patches specifically mentioning issues to fix (Never fixed as usual)
A 100 page document being prepared
...etc

What else do we need to do to get a half decent football game to play?

Sell our souls? lol

 

[PRO_TOO]

Thats a very weird reply..
This is Pes thread and we are discussing Pes here, not other games.
And Im expressing my opinion about statement made above, that Pes20 is the best of what they could do with Fox engine..

Not sure what other games have to do with any of that.

I’m here to confuse you!!

I’m just responding to your latest sentence, Em!
And i disclaimed it by saying “one last time off topic” and then started a comparison. sorry when that was annoying to you.
You don’t have to read between the lines to get what i wanna try to say.

It’s a very enjoyable game on a very solid PES basis!!

 

[Alx1234]

There are things that we all agree on the need for a fix, Whether we like the game or not, Fundamental stuff like fouls/ML issues and AI improvements

But if you look at how much we can actually do as a community, I think it's difficult if all the stuff we went through and the game is still a joke.

We filled surveys
This year we had our own testers attending events
New facebook page for feedback
The work of Matt10 which keeps getting ignored unfortunately
Adam moved to Tokyo claiming it would help
2 or 3 patches specifically mentioning issues to fix (Never fixed as usual)
A 100 page document being prepared
...etc

What else do we need to do to get a half decent football game to play?

Sell our souls? lol

yeh I totally agree. i'm not as frustrated this year as I have been in previus years because I given up on modding the gme and trying it on different formats etc.

kinda accepted that the game may not get any better so taking casual approach and for a one-off exh match when IRL matches happen.

kinda glad peeps here are always calling for improvements cos I just got tired and started to enjoy footy - like Sons goal at the weekend!

 

[beachryan]

Giving it another go after DF3 - I still just cannot play with 'intricate' players against the CPU. I play as United, and Martial is utterly useless. No matter how hard I try, he will be dispossessed by anyone, in any condition.

Is there some button I need to be pushing? If I take a touch in any direction, the CPU just makes me stumble, at least 9/10.

Players like Rashford are okay, because sheer pace is useful, but there is no close control against the CPU I find.

Except in the other direction of course, when the opponent builds a wall around themselves.

 

[aderow]

So I downloaded the lite version. Figured it would give me a good idea whether or not I want to buy it.

I strictly play BAL style; controlling only one player. Fixed cursor is a great feature that allows me to do so.

So for the last 30 minutes to an hour I've been playing the 5 minute matches and well, first impressions haven't been great so far. Because I play BAL style, my experience relies heavily on the AI. So far, the AI hasn't been fun to play with at all. Bad decision making, bad positioning, and opposition AI do things it really shouldn't be capable of doing.

Also can you no longer stop/stand on the ball? Because that's apparently different now and I don't like it lol.

I'm gonna keep playing to see how I feel once I'm used to it, but as of now I don't think I can myself buying it to play ML or BAL.

 

[rojofa]

It's been weeks since I've played this, but had zero desire to boot it up again tbh...

Online modes are all awful, offline AI is a chore to play against and nothing interesting happens when you shoot at goal. I might score the same rocket shot I've seen 10,000 times, how exciting...

On top of that there's all the PC faffing around with fixing broken stadium textures and lighting, trying to get decent stadiums with correct intro scenes without using paywalled/locked mods, having to update sider/modules every Konami update etc... It's not worth trying to keep on top of all of this for the lacklustre experience when you get on the pitch.

Will be sticking to better games and maybe get FM for a football fix.

 

[orangebard]

So I downloaded the lite version. Figured it would give me a good idea whether or not I want to buy it.

I strictly play BAL style; controlling only one player. Fixed cursor is a great feature that allows me to do so.

So for the last 30 minutes to an hour I've been playing the 5 minute matches and well, first impressions haven't been great so far. Because I play BAL style, my experience relies heavily on the AI. So far, the AI hasn't been fun to play with at all. Bad decision making, bad positioning, and opposition AI do things it really shouldn't be capable of doing.

Also can you no longer stop/stand on the ball? Because that's apparently different now and I don't like it lol.

I'm gonna keep playing to see how I feel once I'm used to it, but as of now I don't think I can myself buying it to play ML or BAL.

I play the same way and have similar feelings. There are a few positives - the ai has played some nice crosses to me for example, which didn't happen very often in 2019, but generally it feels like a slight regression in terms of teammate AI. I also find myself getting angry about the terrible changes they've made to the controls and that ruins my enjoyment somewhat every time I put the game on.

Stop/stand is now R1 (to face the goal) or tap and hold R1 to stop in the direction you are running.

 

[aderow]

I play the same way and have similar feelings. There are a few positives - the ai has played some nice crosses to me for example, which didn't happen very often in 2019, but generally it feels like a slight regression in terms of teammate AI. I also find myself getting angry about the terrible changes they've made to the controls and that ruins my enjoyment somewhat every time I put the game on.

Stop/stand is now R1 (to face the goal) or tap and hold R1 to stop in the direction you are running.

Cheers. I played for over 2 hours. I don't think I'll be buying this because teammate AI, and AI in general, just isn't very good. I know I'll lose my patience with it so I'm better off saving my money.

 

[slamsoze]

Giving it another go after DF3 - I still just cannot play with 'intricate' players against the CPU. I play as United, and Martial is utterly useless. No matter how hard I try, he will be dispossessed by anyone, in any condition.

Is there some button I need to be pushing? If I take a touch in any direction, the CPU just makes me stumble, at least 9/10.

Players like Rashford are okay, because sheer pace is useful, but there is no close control against the CPU I find.

Except in the other direction of course, when the opponent builds a wall around themselves.

Are you playing it wrong? I use dribbling & feint-moves and working 99,9% of time....

(I am kidding of course)

I just can't over that they broke the fundamental controls of R1/R2 this year, in favour of the "Iniestia-dribbling" we saw being hard marketed during pre-release period, only to be thrown completelly out of the window after 1.0, both the Iniesta and the physical concept.

 

[hitmanuk]

Giving it another go after DF3 - I still just cannot play with 'intricate' players against the CPU. I play as United, and Martial is utterly useless. No matter how hard I try, he will be dispossessed by anyone, in any condition.

Is there some button I need to be pushing? If I take a touch in any direction, the CPU just makes me stumble, at least 9/10.

Players like Rashford are okay, because sheer pace is useful, but there is no close control against the CPU I find.

Except in the other direction of course, when the opponent builds a wall around themselves.

You can skip past opponents using super cancel and direction to shift the ball, and then move away. If you time it right you will go past or get fouled. Also right stick close control works to move the ball away from a tackle as the AI attempts to move in. Those are they key controls I use. Also with someone like martial try a combo of a step over or a body faint then super cancel and direction the opposite way to drift past as the AI tends to shift weight towards the faint. Not saying your playing wrong or whatever but you can pass the AI with the right player

 

[chiefrocka4real]

I think the guys who like pes a lot, like it cos they know its better than the crap we've had the past few years

the guys who don't like it haven't been exposed as much to that crap so they still have higher expectations.


the problem is the first category folks are not necessarily good for the game in terms of getting improvements done.

PES 2020 could be sublime but at the mo its satisfactory-to-good and if community is not united (like we were about demo differences to 1.01 release) then we won't see any meaningful improvements.

for me, i think the core message to konami is : give us meaningful non-scripted enjoyable ML experiences and accurate player ID. i am avoiding touching that mode until i'm satisfied i won't be wasting time playing it.

Hell no! Sorry, but no!

That categorization of people being this and that cause they like it or hate it, is just.......yuck!!!

I like this game cause I know it´s better than the crap we´ve had the past few years, as you say.
Yeah...it´s better than what we had until now.
But being told, I´m not good for the game in terms of improvements??
Come on, man.

I take the game for what it is and enjoy the positives it brings. Annnnnnd....I´m totally aware of the things that need improvement.

I could criticise so many things in it and could go on and on, the list is endless. But none of these faults is a gamebreaker to me, either it is features or bugs that personally don´t mean much to me, or I´m playing with specific settings or mods, that weaken those flaws (full manual, modified exe etc.).
But I, and many other people on here being positive about this game, are certainly able to criticise the game thoroughly to push improvements.

I might not be on the same positive level as PRO_TOO, but even in his posts, I understand that he has room for critics, but keeps enjoying the positives it brings.

Please don´t categorize .

 

[Filippo-Inzaghi]

Just a ‘’short’’ check-in from me.

Haven’t been here that much after the hype-train stopped after a couple of months with the game.

In terms of that - I’m sad. When I have the time, I’m finding myself playing Football Manager instead of even consider PES or FIFA.
I am happy for you guys enjoying PES. I really am. I just can’t get there anymore, and I’m highly doubtful that I ever can. Things have just changed, and sometimes I think it will create a revolution from a different company creating it. The two titles are just heavy influence of the direction of E-Sport. When playing a game against a friend or even online (even though I don’t want the FUT-thing), it just offers the unpredictability that making a football game fun and addictive. The problem for us is that the companies would, for very obvious reasons, focus on that part.

• There is a lot of money in E-sports. Not only do they sell the game, but there are microtransactions in it that are creating the future.
• Without being an expert, I will have a basic assumption that it is way easier to develop the game. The whole AI part is getting less attention.

And again.. Why should they prioritize differently? How many of us ‘’old-gamers’’ are having the game? A pretty percentage of us. We are hoping. We are giving it a month or two. Still hoping with upcoming patches - Maybe placebo will be there - maybe something will feel different. Honestly, it is a horrible product. Being well educated within marketing, I would say it is good marketing. At the end of the day, Bhatti, Lygaard, etc. has one job and that is creating interest for the product - They did that well by releasing a very good demo who made most of us giving the game a chance and by speaking of Master League improvements etc. Job 1 Done.

The truth for me (at least) is:
Something IS improved, but most of it isn’t. A see a lot of people speaking of fundamentals being improved. Ball Physics, Weight of players, etc. I agree, but I think that you guys that are speaking highly of the game have one incredible ability, and that is to ignore which fundamentals that hasn’t been fixed:

• For me, a fundamental part of a game is that is programmed so I wouldn’t feel cheated in Master League. IT HASN’T CHANGED. It is so damn scripted and obvious that after 2 games, I just can’t take it anymore. With the intelligence, it is possible to use these days, it’s just not good enough for me seeing the same s*** happen every year. The fundamentals aren’t improved when you, from time to time, don't feel that it is an honest experience playing PES on the highest level. It isn’t improved, when it’s just hard because of scripting and not because you’re playing a team that is playing beautiful football.
• The fundamentals aren’t improved when we still discuss referee-decisions and never experience penalties
• The fundamentals aren’t improved, when we still are seeing Salernitana scores at every free-kick, they get against you in Master League.
• The fundamentals aren’t improved when the commentators are using the same lines for nearly 15 years.
• The fundamentals aren’t improved when it’s a more common solution, playing Spotify while gaming PES.
• Two; The Master League is the most shallow and boring experience ever. Maybe some of us can be pretty large in this area by saying: ‘’Well... For me, it’s about the playing experience’’. The playing experience isn’t at the level it should be. Not for me at least, with the above mentioned ever-existing problems. When that is the case, it’s just even harder to defend Konami for delivering a Master League with so many elements that aren’t having any impact on the Master League experience.

I really admire the ones of you who still can enjoy a football game offline these days. For me, none of the titles can offer me anything in that regard. Here I need to go to Football Manager where it feels long-term. It feels like I’m having an impact on the field, and my decisions are valued. And maybe they are having an easier job, as we aren’t controlling the players in there - but maybe it is how it is in 2019.

A lot of love to you guys. It is really not the meaning to ‘’destroy’’ your experience of PES by pointing the same thing out year after year... I did just have one of these moments where I felt for some opinions to be shared. I miss the old days, but I am finding myself in a position where I’m beginning to accept that it will never come back. It is a time where we ‘’’oldies’’ will hope for an offline experience, where we could develop a team against the computer. But probably (as sad at is), the only thing that can bring a football experience on a console back for me is if that some of the titles are developing an online-solution that will be interesting for me - and I really can’t see that happen.
I am finding myself, every summer, HOPING for a better PES-experience, but I believe that inside, I know what is gonna happen these days. A demo is coming - it is giving me hope, but in that one mode that can offer a minor offline-experience, the same exhausting experience is waiting.

We are in December, so I wish all of you and your families a very merry Christmas and a happy new year. I hope that there will be a lot of good times with your family, maybe a well-served beer, great food, and maybe a couple of hours with FM, PES, FIFA, or whatever you are into these days.
I will still follow this great place as there is a lot of you I share opinions with - Maybe something will change, that will get me trying one more time, but it will only be after some comments in here about ‘’being worth it’’.

 

[Madmac79]

Offline crowd isn't relevant as a whole. Guys appreciating the game despite the flaws won't change a thing in the great scheme of things. Every single year an enormous amount of suggestions is always there for them to grab, even simple stuff that would vastly improve the experience, but they simply choose to ignore it. Last year we rant month after month after month about CPU, with what result? Yeah, you know.

Only possibility that would perhaps change things is if they'd find a way to cash offline modes.. and it's already depressing to even write down.

 

[mj23]

I still think the gap between front line, midfield and defensive line is too large
I don't think the october patch improved it enough
both ai and I can pass to forward from our own half directly, the space is still too much for me

Exactly
From all changes after last update, this is the biggest change in my opinion.The gap between lines AND players is huge now considering how it was before the update.Now you can see players just standing in the pitch waiting for the ball to come and opponents are far away from them but they quickly try to press after first touch.There are huge gaps everywere.They probably did this to favor attacking play & better chance creation.Pre Patch was tight but it was more like the real teams play. Today Teams don’t play with so much gaps between lines & players.They have more compact shapes in every aspect

 

[aussiepesfan]

LOL

Fouls are still broken
Catch up bug still exists
Scripting is still there
AI plays the same way (Pass to a player on top of the area, He turns and shoots)
deep defensive line still an issue and AI keeps backing up and giving you space to shoot
Keepers stuck to their lines
You rarely win a penalty/ No injuries and fatigue effect in master league
Players still ignore the ball

It'll be difficult for people like you to convince us of how great the game is, Unless you give credit to the community for trying to fix Konami's crap year after year. Our guys spend weeks and weeks trying to fix tactics/dt files and EXEs to make it at least playable and they're still struggling.

Stick to posting and hyping up the addition of new faces and stadiums that get removed in the next data update or the next sorry iteration of the game for no reason

Hmm... to me: fouls are not broken, fine infact. Catch up bug doesn't exist. Scripting.. well all games have scripting.. its a game (but if you mean 'feel cheated'.. nah I disagree. Ai does not play the same way, and to the player who turns an shoots.. try man marking him, and ensuring you have someone in his face.. I rarely have goals scored against me this way. Not sure about deep defensive line, but playing on Legend.. im finding it tough to get shot on goal.. with limited space. Keepers come out. Players done ignore the ball if you select them in a timely manner. And.. yes.. there could be more penalties lol. Yes you rarely win a penalty, I agree with this.

I don't think anyone's trying to convince others on how great this game is. As much as we could all say you are trying to convince us the game is broken. Either you enjoy it or you don't, but my point is that the game has made more positive improvements over the last year, since I can remember. And, yeah.. I believe this game is the best simulated football game ever made to date. So sue me for loving this game so much and not seeing the faults you see. Bahhhhh!!!!

 

[aussiepesfan]

Anything really new though?
AI has the same level of offensive plays of Pes 5, that is a 15 years old game, it's definitely not a good thing.
All the rest (weight, inertia, player id) we already had in Pes 5 and 6. Shooting variation is far from what we had in Ps2 games, in this case they even managed to go backwards and we still aren't even at Pes 3 levels yet. Too little variation even compared to 20 years old games.
Let's not even talk about fouls, because they are terrible, way worse than they were on Ps2 Pes games. Also, we are completely missing referees personalities. I mean, in Ps2 Pes games even referees had their own id, remember the dreaded Kazuki Ito? Look at the state of referees in Pes 15 years later, it's quite shocking they managed to ruin them so much.

Pes has greatly improved giving a lot more freedom on the ball, but it still feels so limited compared to what i expect from a 2020 game,especially when defending.
Defending in Pes 2020 is not responsive enough and i really feel i had much more control of my defenders in Ps3 and Ps2 Pes games. Another element where Pes not only hasn't substantially improved, but it's actually regressed during Ps4 gen.

Anything really new though?? Well yes.. all the improvements I mentioned. And to say this was all in pes5 n 6 is so wrong its crazy. Yes pes5 and 6 had better camera angles.. but to say weight, inertia, player id etc were just as good.. come on man.. that's crazy talk.
One thing I will agree on.. we need pes5/6 replay angles.. not to mention pes5's kit/short/sock combo being able to be changed independently.
In fact, I think you could find a 'best something' in every version of pes. Pes10 had one of best menu's or was it 11... but when you look at overall package, and overall improvements, nothing (in my eyes/my perspective) comes close to pes2020.